PONTIAC WILL GET ENTRY LEVEL COUPE

[regfootball]

here

[Newbiewar]

i think it will only add sales to the brand, unfortunatly... it may take a few away from chevy...

personally i think pontiac shouldnt have any more vehicles in that budget, pontiac is better then that...

[Achelous]

If it's going to be priced close to the Supercharged Cobalt SS I wonder what engine they'll be putting in it. Maybe the 2.0 liter SC ecotec. Maybe the turboed version. Can't I dream a little?

[Newbiewar]

If it's going to be priced close to the Supercharged Cobalt SS I wonder what engine they'll be putting in it. Maybe the 2.0 liter SC ecotec. Maybe the turboed version. Can't I dream a little?

yea if they give it the turbo then it would be okay...

[regfootball]

g5 GXP anyone? A cobalt with 260hp under the hood is fine with me. Imagine the disgruntled vtec wussies.

[4gm]

I have a feeling it's going to be a badge engineered Cobalt. Torrent anyone?

[turbo200]

it'll be a rebadged cobalt, GM gave into the dealers, and needs to fill capacity after Ion is done. Hopefully they'll give it the turbo 2.0 at launch.

[caddycruiser]

I have a feeling it's going to be a badge engineered Cobalt.  Torrent anyone?

Yeah, pretty much. They already sell it in Canada, so it should come here without modification...just a Cobalt with a different grille piece snapped in, new taillights, and the typically ugly red lighting added to the inside gauges.

One thing is for sure--it definately won't help Pontiac much at all in the way of having a full lineup of "WOW" cars like they need...

Edited February 13, 2006 by caddycruiser

[ToniCipriani]

I'm glad they finally woke up with the SV6. That thing is just a joke. I've only seen them moving from lots when there are huge incentives or rental companies renewing their fleets.

[sciguy_0504]

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

It was inevitable about a Pursuit or G4/G5 coming along-I knew it all along-hopefully there will be more differentiation here, I know Pontiac designers are more creative than the useless crap (Torrent, Montana SV6 in this non-sporty-oriented form) or vastly underwhelming, disappointing material (G6) or a nice car with an aging chassis in a world of Dodge Chargers (Grand Prix).

[ehaase]

It was inevitable about a Pursuit or G4/G5 coming along-I knew it all along-hopefully there will be more differentiation here, I know Pontiac designers are more creative than the useless crap (Torrent, Montana SV6 in this non-sporty-oriented form) or vastly underwhelming, disappointing material (G6) or a nice car with an aging chassis in a world of Dodge Chargers (Grand Prix).

You are consistently too harsh on GM considering its current precarious financial situation. If GM could afford to give Pontiac all unique vehicles, it would do so. If a Cobalt clone helps the Pontiac dealers out a little bit until GM can afford to give Pontiac more unique vehicles, what's the big deal?

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Hmm...maybe I am too harsh....I'll have to think more constructively I guess-but don't get me wrong, overall, I am for this car, and if it is priced above Cobalt with higher standard equipment-then that shouldn't be a problem at all. And while they're at it, just to give breathing room, dump the SS Supercharged so this Pontiac could get its "Formula".

[RBB]

Hmm...maybe I am too harsh....I'll have to think more constructively I guess-but don't get me wrong, overall, I am for this car, and if it is priced above Cobalt with higher standard equipment-then that shouldn't be a problem at all.

That's my thoughts on this as well. Ideally, it'd be more than just a badge job, but you take what you can get given the situation.

And while they're at it, just to give breathing room, dump the SS Supercharged so this Pontiac could get its "Formula".

I don't think that's necessary, especially if the turbo Ecotec is a Pontiac exclusive. This is what I'd like to see:

G4/5:

170 HP 2.4L

205 HP 2.0L Supercharged

260 HP 2.4L DI Turbocharged

Cobalt:

145 HP 2.2L

170 HP 2.4L

205 HP 2.0L Supercharged.

perhaps another way Pontiac (not just the G5) could diferentiate itself would be to offer a version of the G4 sedan with either the turbocharged or the supercharged engine.

Anyone know if there are any issues using the turbo engine in a FWD platform? I assume at a minimun some of the plumbing will need to be reworked.

-RBB

Edited February 13, 2006 by RBB

[Snate]

It can be done...ditch the 2.2L in the Pontiac version and give it some more equipment. It would be nice if it was a Pontiac exclusive feature like HUD but they don't seem to use it as much as I wish they would.

[ZL-1]

It will keep the plant running near peak capacity (hopefully) and it will buy (little) time before GM figures where Pontiac is going. It's just a quick fix not to loose volume...

[ToniCipriani]

Anyone know if there are any issues using the turbo engine in a FWD platform?  I assume at a minimun some of the plumbing will need to be reworked. 

-RBB

If supercharging can be done, I really don't see why turbocharging can't be. The difference between a supercharger and a turbocharger is the way it gets its power.

Moreover, Saab's been doing it for quite a long time already.

[The O.C.]

A Cobalt clone sickens me just like the Torrent. I wouldn't bet on any unique powertrains either (see Torrent.)

It's sad.....because GM has shown that they CAN do badge engineering better than Ford.....as uncompetitive in many areas that the LaCrosse/Impala/Grand Prix are....at least you can honestly say they don't share one body panel or one interior panel/seat/dash/console.

The 500 and Montego are near twins. Ditto the Fusion/Milan. Ditto the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. Ditto the Escape/Mariner.

[Guest Josh]

Terrible...Terrible decision GM. I thought this kind of crap was done with.

[buyacargetacheck]

Good move on GM's part. Like I've said before, Pontiac is as good as dead (has been for some time). The only thing keeping it alive are GM's need to keep the factories cranking, dealers' need for product, Enterprise's need for "transportation units" and the occasional enthusiast who idealizes either a time he or his father remembers from his youth.

GM would do well to cut all advertising to Buick and Pontiac and simply make straight clones of Chevy model-for-model (that's what they are underneath anyway and everyone in the free world knows it). "Back to 1982" will allow GM to squeeze out the last remaining profits of these two great names that began a decline 30 years ago. Straight clones of Chevies with maybe new front clips. GM doesn't have the creativity, intelligence or, now, money to do anything better. Better get religion on Chevrolet and Cadillac before it's too late!!!

[-Camaro-]

g5 GXP anyone?  A cobalt with 260hp under the hood is fine with me.  Imagine the disgruntled vtec wussies.

Why GXP? Why can't the G5 base model be a performance model like the Cobalt SS? It would make it less of a clone and make pontiac look more like the performance division instead of the econo division.

[Cory Wolfe]

My thoughts: :fcvxplode:

Edited February 13, 2006 by blackviper8891

[99camaroSS]

hmmmmmmmm right as i start to regain hope the gm had pulled it head out of its arse we get more badge enginering DOH!

but then they go and do this which leaves me wondering what they are thinking they say this is just to tide the dealers over till they can develop something else but have we heard anything about what that car would be?

[razoredge]

I understand this is for the dealers, we discused the loss for dealers back when Sunbird was cut.

however

At $20,000 I dont understand this, why not the ecotec G6 @ $20,000 ? theres your entry level.

If they do not change the sheet metal and the interior this is a bad move.

[caddycruiser]

As for the whole minivan issue, why in the everliving hell are they so sure NOW that 4 is 2 too many, but thought they were all necessary just over a year ago?

Not that it would have been a lot, but think what the morons could have saved by only making the 2 versions in the first place

Strangely enough, as much of poorly designed antique vans they are, the inteiors are oddly beautiful in most every model, especially the Terrazza--which also has that whole extra sound deadening thing going for it. Too bad the adaptability of the interior packaging is about as good as minivans from 10 years ago, that they've had SO many electrical problems (go check out any owner boards for them--alternators are just one bug ), along with build quality issues (moldings simply falling off, pieces coming undone, etc.)

Kill the Buick and Pontiac now, brush up the look of the Chevy a bit, and give the Saturn the Buick's interior and sound deadening, and those two should at least live on competently until being put down...hopefully before too long.

[ToniCipriani]

I understand this is for the dealers, we discused the loss for dealers back when Sunbird was cut.

however

At $20,000 I dont understand this, why not the ecotec G6 @ $20,000 ? theres your entry level.

If they do not change the sheet metal and the interior this is a bad move.

I've brought up that issue before. But the idea was attacked by various and saying the G6 is slow enough with the V6.

[Cory Wolfe]

I've brought up that issue before. But the idea was attacked by various and saying the G6 is slow enough with the V6.

Well, it wouldn't so bad if they could pump more hp out of the 2.4L while reducing weight by a few hundred pounds. As is, though, it's worse than a Cobalt clone, performance wise.

[regfootball]

I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe would be a bad thing.

There are many parts of the country where Pontiac dealers need exactly this type of mass appeal car (small Cobalt clone) to maintain their volume.

If the 2.4 is the base engine and the options are 2.0 supercharged and turbocharged, and ther driving experience is enhanced even over the Cobalt SS, then what's the issue? Make a sport suspension standard, give thing recaro like seats, standard, extreme handling options, big brakes, top drawer stereos, unique interior treatments......

then what's the problem? would you rather see Pontiac lose share? This is a car they can SELL. its inexpensive and hits the meat of what the market wants. this can provide VOLUME and take sales away from other makes.

I cannot wait for the day we can shove a G5 coupe up the @$$ of some lame ass Honda fan who thinks their torqueless wimp car (civic) is the end all and be all of the small coupe market.

Where the Cobalt SS is the equal right now, let the G5 coupe BLOW THEM AWAY.

Honda is never gonna put out a turbo product, much less any Civic that can muster even 150-lb. ft of torque.

Edited February 13, 2006 by regfootball

[CaddyXLR-V]

I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe would be a bad thing.

There are many parts of the country where Pontiac dealers need exactly this type of mass appeal car (small Cobalt clone) to maintain their volume.

If the 2.4 is the base engine and the options are 2.0 supercharged and turbocharged, and ther driving experience is enhanced even over the Cobalt SS, then what's the issue?  Make a sport suspension standard, give thing recaro like seats, standard, extreme handling options, big brakes, top drawer stereos, unique interior treatments......

then what's the problem?  would you rather see Pontiac lose share?  This is a car they can SELL.  its inexpensive and hits the meat of what the market wants.  this can provide VOLUME and take sales away from other makes.

I cannot wait for the day we can shove a G5 coupe up the @$$ of some lame ass Honda fan who thinks their torqueless wimp car (civic) is the end all and be all of the small coupe market.

Where the Cobalt SS is the equal right now, let the G5 coupe BLOW THEM AWAY.

Honda is never gonna put out a turbo product, much less any Civic that can muster even 150-lb. ft of torque.

That would be fine, as long as it doesn't look like a Cobalt with a Pontiac nose, and is differentiated as much as the Impala and Grand Prix are from one another.

[ToniCipriani]

That would be fine, as long as it doesn't look like a Cobalt with a Pontiac nose, and is differentiated as much as the Impala and Grand Prix are from one another.

AH-HA Mentioned it won't be that different. Get ready to be disappointed if anyone expects it to be different.

[-Camaro-]

I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe would be a bad thing.

There are many parts of the country where Pontiac dealers need exactly this type of mass appeal car (small Cobalt clone) to maintain their volume.

If the 2.4 is the base engine and the options are 2.0 supercharged and turbocharged, and ther driving experience is enhanced even over the Cobalt SS, then what's the issue?  Make a sport suspension standard, give thing recaro like seats, standard, extreme handling options, big brakes, top drawer stereos, unique interior treatments......

then what's the problem?  would you rather see Pontiac lose share?  This is a car they can SELL.  its inexpensive and hits the meat of what the market wants.  this can provide VOLUME and take sales away from other makes.

I cannot wait for the day we can shove a G5 coupe up the @$$ of some lame ass Honda fan who thinks their torqueless wimp car (civic) is the end all and be all of the small coupe market.

Where the Cobalt SS is the equal right now, let the G5 coupe BLOW THEM AWAY.

Honda is never gonna put out a turbo product, much less any Civic that can muster even 150-lb. ft of torque.

A turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe is the only trim they should have for the G5, imo. No regular versions, please!

[Mach5GTP]

As much as I hate- I mean *HATE*- quick-and-dirty, on-the-cheap, blatant badge engineering, I do think this is good for Pontiac, especially (and possibly only) for newer/younger Pontiac fans. Older fans will lament the days when Pontiac had truly unique and indiviual styling (if they aren't already), but the younger folks will get an affordable Pontiac to start their engines, as it were.

Hopefully, it will sell well, and GM will see fit to deliver to Pontiac dealers a unique entry-level Poncho that doesn't have Chevy written underneath, like a Hot Wheels car. We can hope.

I happen to not-hate the Pursuit/"G5" styling, and I would not mind one at all, as long as there's a GXP version (don't get me started on the whole "GXP" meaninglessness...).

[jbartley]

I'm ok with it as long as it's more powerful than the cobalt, arrives in coupe only, and they actually make it look ok.

it's only a volume filler for a few years anways...

[jbartley]

A turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe is the only trim they should have for the G5, imo. No regular versions, please!

i AGREE no "base, gt versions"

GTP and GXP only, blow away some riciness

[Stubbles]

You guys have alot of optimisim in regards to the turbo 2.0 going into the"G5", but i just don't see it happening. Chevrolet is GM's bread-and-butter brand, and being a filler car for 2-3 years, i don't see GM spending the money to totally rework the turbo plumbing to make it work. I know they say that Pontiac is their perfomance division, but they have never done anything like that before. I'd love to see a 260 horse G5, but i don't think it'll happen...maybe the 2.0 S/C in a GXP/GTP trim.

[pow]

Oh well... the Torrent fixed a lot of the Equinox's flaws, hopefully this will be the same for the G5 (?).

[red]

Typical. One step forward, three steps back. LaNeve wanted to trim the P/B/GMC into a single channel with unique products...and they ended up giving in...

Why not spend the money on putting some cushier interior materials into the Cobalt?

[frogger]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[hyperv6]

Don't get too upset here! Now that you got a grip this car is just to plug a hole for only a short period of time.

GM can do this car for pennies on the dollar as car development goes and once the budgeted real money arrives they will get a car you will love and make you forget this car altogether.

GM would love nothing more to have the car they really want right now but they don't have the needed funding to do it correctly right now. This is just the same thing that the GTO from down under has done. It is not doen to win critics but to plug gaps in a line up bungled by those in the late 90's

If anyone wants to help they could write a check to GM so they can build what they want now. HMMMM I don't see anyone writing?? Well your just going to have to wait till they have the staff and money to do it right.

Every thing has it's priority and needed funding at GM and it has to happen in its time not. I know everyone wants everything done right now but it's not going to happen that way.

Is this car to plug a whole till a new RWD small Coupe or Sedan comes? I don't know if that is what is coming but it would be a great replacment and I would be willing to live with the Coblat car for a few years to get a small RWD or killer car in the line up.

[regfootball]

i saw a pic of a yellow Pursuit coupe that was pretty nice.

since the HHR is getting the 240hp ecotec, i can see the Pursuit and maybe the Cobalt getting it as well.

[Robert Hall]

I'm not a fan of badge engineering, but it works in Canada and Mexico, so why not here, is probably what they are thinking.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GREAT!!!!

The dealers bitched enough to get a damn Cobalt clone that'll do nothing but STEAL sales away from the Cobalt while slowing it's overall momentum and deteriorating Pontiac's image just a bit more.

If it's going to be priced near the Cobalt SS (Not SC/SS) then the performance quotient isn't there.

yea if they give it the turbo then it would be okay...

Now THAT would be FREAKIN' SWEET!!! as long as it didn't LOOK just like the Cobalt that is.

g5 GXP anyone? A cobalt with 260hp under the hood is fine with me. Imagine the disgruntled vtec wussies.

OH!!! COME ON NOW!!!

We all know that NATURALLY the Civic would STILL be better because it's bolts are double plated stainless...

Just like in C&D's cheap speed shoot out, the SRT-4 Cobalt SS/SC and Ion RL were ALL cheaper and ALL mopped the damn floor with the RSX, yet weren't good enough to claim first over it. (The reader backlash was GREAT BTW!!!)

[cmattson]

IMO, this is GM caving into dealer's bitching. Buick/Pontiac/GMC (BPG) can have a small car, but it should be segmented so that it wouldn't steal Cobalt sales. A Pontiac Gx is going to be nothing more than a rehashed Cobalt SS. GM is going to spend money to move sales from the Chevrolet column to the Pontiac column. What a complete waste. If BPG needs a small car, then quiet-tune the Cobalt & upgrade it's interior & then sell it under the Buick nameplate. That definately wouldn't steal Cobalt sales & it would be in keeping with the upscale image GM is working on for Buick. As a side benefit, it explores a niche market that GM is currently leaving untapped. Even as a stopgap measure, this is a poor decision.

[turbo200]

as was said above, there is too much optimism for changes here. get ready to be really disappointed if you expect anything beyond the glued on Pontiac nostrils, bad integration complete. At this point I am having a really hard time believing the turbo will make it in there, but my only hope is the Cobalt will get it as was reported by some a while ago, and then the Pontiac could get it, but that's the only way it's gonna go, nothing unique for Pontiac I fear.

[ocnblu]

The Pontiac Delta should have been developed alongside the Cobalt, maybe then it would have been more unique. As it is, I don't see a major, major problem with it, as long as it has its own interior and only the higher horsepower engines available.

The fact that Pontiac wasn't in on the Delta program says two things to me... either Pontiac was going to be killed outright at the time the Cobalt was being developed (hence no need for a sister car for Pontiac), or GM was hedging their bets on Kappa to see if it was going to be a success before they committed to a stretched Kappa 4 seater. Now Pontiac is left with nothing at the entry level except for their Matrix sibling.

I support the decision to bring "G5" to the US as a stopgap, but I hope development is on a fast track for a RWD entry level car at Pontiac. Sunbird and Sunfire were pretty popular... why let that bottom fall out?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

AH-HA Mentioned it won't be that different. Get ready to be disappointed if anyone expects it to be different.

AH-HA also religiously said that there was no Camaro concept...

Now, keep in mind that I never doubt what AH-HA says, especially pertaining to this particular subject and he is probably THE best source we have. I'm merely playing devil's advocate.

[Chicagoland]

Pontiac has shared designs with Chevy since 1926. Look at how similr the 55 Chevy and Pontiac look. Heck, there was even a Pontiac version of the 'classic' Nomad.

Some still think the 1960's Pontiacs were 100% unique parts. No, they had common bodyshells and frames. Only engines were divisional until 80's.

Point is that they can only do so much 'divisional uniqueness' with the huge losses and costs. Can't expect GM and Pontiac to be like it was in 1964, but then OTOH, they shouldn't do badge only cars like T1000's and Astres.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Chicagoland

[Flybrian]

Point is that they can only do so much ' divisional uniqueness' with the huge losses and costs. Can't expect Pontiac to be like it was in 1964, but then OTOH, they shouldn't do badge only cars like T1000's and Astres.

This is pretty much what 90% of us are advocating, G/W-body type sharing.

[cavalier36]

[quote

Oh, whoopie... Yeah, I'm not very optimistic on this one. Just a Cobalt SS with dual-ports slapped into the fascia design. (Little bit of advice, dual-ports grilles a Pontiac does not make.)

there will be diffrent front and rear facias, headlights, tailights on the pontiac wont be round like the cobalt.. you will see diffrent seats and a somewhat diffrent instrument panel..

I'm also glad to see one of the CSV clones getting killed in the process. Although the Pontiac minivan clone probably was the best selling or second best selling van GM had, it had no place in the Pontiac line to start with. And, pretty soon, the damn Terraza will go down with it. And Saturn and Chevy, two brands where a minivan actually fit in, will get the goods.

when the new minivans debut for 2008 there wont be a pontiac or a buick version..

only Chevy and Saturn will get versions of the new lambda based minivan..

[The O.C.]

I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged, direct injection, 260hp RSX ass kicking Pontiac G5 GXP coupe would be a bad thing.

There are many parts of the country where Pontiac dealers need exactly this type of mass appeal car (small Cobalt clone) to maintain their volume.

If the 2.4 is the base engine and the options are 2.0 supercharged and turbocharged, and ther driving experience is enhanced even over the Cobalt SS, then what's the issue?  Make a sport suspension standard, give thing recaro like seats, standard, extreme handling options, big brakes, top drawer stereos, unique interior treatments......

then what's the problem?  would you rather see Pontiac lose share?  This is a car they can SELL.  its inexpensive and hits the meat of what the market wants.  this can provide VOLUME and take sales away from other makes.

I cannot wait for the day we can shove a G5 coupe up the @$$ of some lame ass Honda fan who thinks their torqueless wimp car (civic) is the end all and be all of the small coupe market.

Where the Cobalt SS is the equal right now, let the G5 coupe BLOW THEM AWAY.

Honda is never gonna put out a turbo product, much less any Civic that can muster even 150-lb. ft of torque.

Dealers aren't screaming for a (relatively-speaking) low volume model like a Cobalt SS clone.....more than likely, the new Pontiac coupe will be a more-or-less base model with the 2.2. They might offer an uplevel version, but a $20K Pursuit obviously clashes with the bigger G6 2.4L.