Pontiac to get G8 rwd family
Sedan will be followed by wagon, sport truck
Jamie LaReau
Automotive News
November 19, 2007 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT — General Motors plans a new family of rear-wheel-drive vehicles for Pontiac. The G8 line will include a sedan followed by a wagon and sport truck.

All will be modeled after products sold by GM's Australian subsidiary, Holden, according to three sources familiar with the project. The vehicles will be assembled in Australia.

There was debate within GM about whether to give the sport truck to GMC. GMC won't get it.

Instead, GM's marketers wanted — and will get — a Pontiac sport truck so GM can market the three rwd vehicles as a high-performance family.

The sport truck will have the same drivetrain as the Chevrolet Camaro, and it will use a modified sedan architecture.

There is one caveat: Sources say the wagon and sport truck may be repriced or canceled if the U.S. dollar continues to drop. The Australian dollar is currently worth 90 cents in U.S. currency, up from 79 cents in August.


source:

Automotive News

damn the dollar! I want my El Camino (i don't care if it's in a pontiac skin)

What's sad is by the time they get here there will be no Magnum for it to compete with

Sad for Dodge, great for GM.

Competition is better for everyone, especially teh customer. Anyway It's good to see them coming, I'm sure Camino will be thrilled. I think I'd want the wagon.

With the way things have been going for the $ lately, that's a HUGE caveat!

Crap!

I was hoping that caveat wouldn't be there.

I'm still on the edge here.


If all goes well, I have another problem - I'm going to want both of them!

I'm not a huge fan of this idea. I think they'll sell well initially and then fade fast. But I guess this is some of the beauty of GM's ability to leverage their global presence and bring vehicles that don't need to be huge hits.

That's the beauty of the plan, especially for Pontiac.

Volume not required.

Good news. I just hope the U.S. dollar doesn't continue its sinking ship impression and the Ute and Wagon come over. The wagon would be a great car for carrying the pups to and from water tests competitions.

The "Camaro drivetrain" bit has me wondering.

Wow, this is great news! I haven't seen any info to confirm this, but I also haven't gotten any new info on the Holden plans for at least a month and a half, so I think it's quite possible it did happen.

The VE sportwagon doesn't start production until late Feb 2008, so that's the earliest that the Pontiac version would start. Personally, I would expect that they will want to get the Holden version off to a strong start before launching the Pontiac, so probably early 2009 or late 2008 would be my guess for SOP.

One thing to note is that the HFV6 production is increasing until 2010MY, so I would expect that they are here by that time.

I expect we will learn more at NAIAS.

EDIT: Whoops I put the wrong SOP date.

That's interesting Northie, because I'm wondering about the timing on the Ute - which is already in production, right?

Well, I would expect the base model to have the HFV6, same as the Camaro. Perhaps it will get the LS3, there is a G8 GXP coming and while I don't know what engine it is getting, that seems like the natural choice.

ls7 wagon?!?!

The LS7 will be going away in production cars, so we aren't likely to see it in any Zeta.

oh i thought it was trickle down to lower models... sureley the zeta platform must get something more then the ls3 though... with the new SRT8's supposed to make more power and the GT500 making what it does, a limited run hi po 500hp motor has to be available

If all of this happens, it will be like the Chevelle Project come to life - just at Pontiac rather than Chevy.

Why can't it be imported for now then switch production to Oshwa once Zeta production comes online there?

That could happen depending on product mix. Oshawa can only build so many variants since it will be getting the volume product for zeta. These cars will all be low-production as long as they are built in Oz. Also, the GMNA zeta is slightly different than the VE until the first refresh.

The LS7 is too expensive to go in anything besides a Cadillac or Z06. The Camaro will be getting a supercharged 6.2L as it's top engine. It's quite possible that engine could go into the GXP line too, but I would expect the LS3, personally. 430HP is plenty of power, and it would be cheaper by far, I would think.



Eventually we will see the Pontiacs produced at Oshawa. If I remember correctly, originally the plan was to have the G8 be a stopgap and then build a NA-designed one a couple years later. Perhaps that will still happen, though I see the G8 having a longer run than originally planned now. The UTE and wagon won't sell in enough volume to merit the tooling to be moved to Oshawa, but perhaps the sedan could. The main problem I see is that VE and Zeta have some differences, though minor, which could cause some problems if they want to run them all down the same line.

Now you know why I was ticked off some last night and then why I decided to post pics of the Sportwagon after all was said and done. I was informed on Friday and had been stewing all weekend about it. I got better about it after I read that the OPEC countries will start buying other currency and unloading US dollars.

C'mon PCS, let us have a few years of fun while the oil is still flowing.

They apparently want to run Zeta down the Sigma line... so it can't be *that* big of an incompatibility.

And who said anything about moving tooling. Let Oz and China supply Asia, Pacific, Middle East and England. <RHD mostly>

Let Oshwa supply North and South America and the rest of Europe.

I think you'll see the model split based on volume rather than geography, with the niche models coming from Holden and the volume from GMNA. Which is fine since they could be shifted with demand once the first refresh of VE happens.

On a side note, this may be good news for assembly plants with no product assigned!

Now there's a post I'm happy to quote!

wilmington

At the very least they should be looking at CKD assembly in the US. If nothing else it would save on shipping engines, transmissions and certain other parts across the Pacific only to ship them back again.

I would think the wagon would be least effected by exchange rates, since it's not much more complicated than adjusting the mix (and if the premium is greater than the added cost, it may even be more attractive than the sedan), but the pickup may require additional homologation that makes it less attractive.

I wonder if GM has a plan B to fleet these two dogs to Enterprise? Surely somebody in the art department must be working on the logos for the "Final 500 Super Silver Chief Pontiac" badges. Dead brand rolling...

I'm hoping we won;t have to wait too long for word on when the sportwagon will go on sale! That's the one I'd be most interested in.

Are you talking about the NG DTS/STS and Lucerne being built at LGR? I think they'll have one line for the CTS and one line for those two. I was under the impression that the last CTS was on a different line than the SRX and STS because it was on the narrower Sigma.

I honestly don't know. The '08 CTS uses the wider sigma now. Maybe it's that consolidation that will allow one line to be Zeta and one to be Sigma.

Actually, with C-Flex, perhaps they will be able to build anything on any line. I forgot about that. LGR already has that, I believe, and Oshawa is going to as well.

From GM FYI Blog on LGR:

Don't be such a fool, that thinking doesn't even apply for any reason.

Well, the latest magazine(I think it was Motor Trend if I remember correctly) have the shot at the Holden wagons. I'll scan it later if I can and post it. Honestly, I don't like it. But.

Check the Holden forum, Diehard, we have quite a few posted there.

Just had to post this:

As long as the program gets off the ground... I see it as a good thing. Perhaps A G8 Safari could replace our MAXX 5 years down the road.

Sounds like a good idea for the Safari the sport truck I am not sure on. Don't plan on selling a bunch of those. But the Safari will sell along with the G8.

Hey that's the pic I used last time! I'm SO glad it's not going to be a GMC!

Me too!

Pontiac version of El Camino huh? The idea is good, but I still don't like the Holden face, and no offense.

Will they ever get their sh*t together? First it's this, then that, then another thing. GM, GROW A PAIR!

'Blu, please do explain? I don't understand what you're saying, unless you're saying you don't like the styling.

I think he is referring to the decison to make/import this zeta or that zeta, and the on again-off again ride we've all been on.

Even now, no firm decision.

If anyone thinks the dollar is going up in the next year or two, they've got another thing coming. I'm already moving money into Euros now so I take less of a hit when I finally go.

Did you have to say that?

I'm depressed enough already!

Wise decision, I've moved most of my money into Euros and British Pounds.

Yes, the UTE has been in production for a month now. I wouldn't be surprised if the UTE was at NAIAS. Even if it's not ready for a while, it can't be too hard to put a G8 nose on it and bring it to the show.

Also, I edited my post above. I don't know why I said that the wagon starts Oct 2008. It starts Feb 2008.

I'm getting a "now or never" vibe from all of this.

I think they do this to fool everyone and keep the competition guessing as to what they are really up to. Keeps us enthsiasts on the brink of insanity too.

Why do I get a feeling that this 'Pontiac El Camino' is fake, and photoshoped version or rumor. I don't think it will serve well if it makes it to Pontiac showrooms. As much as I hate Chevy, but I think this fits better on Chevy Bow-tie line-up instead. I don't think it will succeed as Pontiac.

define "succeed"
pontiac is becoming the performance niche brand.. remember that... that means pontiac will sell less total vehicles then it does as a full line brand... because of its optimal RWD niche status, pontiac can afford to, or hopefully strive to sell cars that are unique... try and tell me there is a current car like the ute on the market

correct me if im wrong, but unlike the GTO, the holdens were designed to adhere to US safety standards, so besides the exchange rate, all it costs to bring the ute here is the LHD architecture and nose, both of which is already used on the G8

in my head, if the G8 ute sells 1000 units, its not a failure because its just bonus sales for a car thats still sold down under...

*shakes head*

And that last quoted sentence is precisely why I'm not going to get all fired up excited about this ... until they are SEEN in DEALERSHIPS.

GM has done this "back and forth" routine ssssooo much lately....

*sighs*

Sure hope the RWD family becomes reality....



Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker
WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort
"Nobody likes to be let down" ... Jack Johnson ... 'Flake'

I'm right there with you knightfan... I was happy to see the wagon & ute in the current issue of Motor Trend, but I also know GM well enough by now to not get entirely excited. I'm wishing like others here that GM/Pontiac show off these cars at the upcoming NAIAS, Chicago, or NYIAS shows to give us who are waiting some additional hope.

Alpha + Zeta + Pontiac = Joy.

A G8 sport truck is definitely more appealing than as a GMC. As much as Chevy would come across as being the one who should get it, with the history and all, it fits Pontiac and Pontiac needs it. Hopefully, GM can get their act together and go through with it. Zeta should have been out in full force by now had they stuck with the original plan.

Did somebody's 'tick tock clock' just lose a little time?

Ahh, to be precise, what you've been told, has gone back and forth, as people try and figure out what their actual plans are.

Not at all, I think it just speeded up!

Where's PCS's doomsday prediction for Pontiac?

"TICK-TOCK" indeed.

Viva La RWD, Viva La Pontiac!!!

ohhh what a surprise!!! not really.

did anyone "really" think GMC or Chevrolet was getting the Ute & Wagon?

Right here buddy, the clock has just been moved an hour ahead. GM Daylight Savings Time, you just lost an hour that's all. You just don't realize it yet. The Currency exchange rates suck big time, the American Dollar is on the ropes, gasoline creeps ever higher. Have you converted your dollars to Euros yet? I would if I were you! TICK-TOCK

yes they do. stupid inflation/and such!!!!

That '65 GTO on Uncle Bob's desk is a sure sign he has big plans for Pontiac. Come on, Uncle Bob, build 'em here, style 'em here, but give us Zeta and Alpha in full strength!

The Baldwin-Motion Corvette makes a point as well.

interestingly, the "tic-tock" is out of the sig.

'splain lucy.

I think he's talking about the ZR1.

Let's just say it's easy to see what inspires him.

oh it will be back, this message is for GM internals!

Hey stop looking at my Sig so closely, I'm starting to feel naked!

The Dodge Magnum has become a bust, the Subura Baja is a car/pickup thing and I hardly ever see them. I don't think wagons or El Camino style vehicles are very popular. They aren't really performance vehicles either, which is what Pontiac says they are going for.

Personally I think Pontiac's future is either being a rental car brand, or making smaller, turbo 4 and turbo V6 cars competing with things like MazdaSpeed cars, Altima V6, Mini Cooper S, 350Z, etc. Making a bunch of big V8 cars that get 16 mpg isn't going to work with $3.50 a gallon.

Good thing you don't get to make the decisions, things would really suck if you did.

Your "plan" for Pontiac would be an instant death sentence.

GM sells tons of bloated V8 trucks and SUVs that get less than 16 mpg now...so there is definitely a market willing to pay to drive a V8...

Yeah but many of them are sold to businesses and used as work trucks for their employees.

How come GM uses CAFE as an excuse for making a new product or something like a rear drive Impala, but as long as they are just rebadging a Holden they don't care about mileage?

Pontiac now has 2 economy cars, the G6 which is fairly inexpensive and heavily fleeted, the Grand Prix was 78% fleet sale it's final year, and the Solstice which is a great looking car, but the badge on the front is hurting its sales now. They are much closer to a rental brand than a performance brand.

They could make better performance vehicles if they had smaller cars and they could also use more fuel efficient engines. The 360 hp G8 will get blown away 0-60 by a 300 hp 335i, the 335i is just .1 seconds slower than a 400 hp GTO. There is place in the market for a full size rear drive V8 car, they need a car like the G8, but that isn't to be a ton of volume. Some small and midsize performance cars could get the younger buyers GM is seeking.

Or fleet Pontiacs to death and do under 5% fleet of all Chevy, Saturn, Buick cars. At least resale of only 1 brand suffers then, unlike every brand suffering now.

Alpha should be your solution, smk. I personally would love an All-American built and styled Alpha Pontiac coupe with the 2.0 DI Turbo Ecotec and a six speed manual.

Alpha is fast becoming an essential, and coupled with Zeta makes Pontiac what it should be.

Econocar buyers should look elsewhere in the GM portfolio.

aren't the rules slightly different when the car is imported?

If GM can classify the Ute and wagon as 'trucks', they can sell with lower Truck CAFE #'s. But it the separate truck numbers go, then bye bye to this dream. GM will not give up full sized truck sales for these curiousity pieces.

i'm glad smk is not in charge of planning.

not everyone wants a metrosexual german car to take their silly 22 year old girlfriends on dates, that is ubertiny but still weighs a ton and is overpriced

nor do they all want a rice car that gives them the feel of their gaming days. i'm just waiting for honda to add 'subwoofer effects' to their driving seats.

g8 is fine. if the v8 gets killed due to cafe, then they can put more v6's in it. a DI 3.6 and manual would be a fine g8 for me. they could even add turbo if they want.

not everyone wants a 3 series. 3 series is lauded a lot but people tend to forget its fairly useless when it comes to passengers or cargo, two things that are important to many buyers.

Pontiac still has a great need to cater to its buyers that have always traditonally wanted a bit of size in their cars.

Not every car buyer is an urban dwelling, single, flat front pant wearing pseudo professional under 30 who spends more on their car than they do anything else.