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Replying to Cadillac News: Spying: Cadillac CTS


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:05 PM

Escalde's length/width/height is 202.5/79.0/75.9 inches. Wheelbase 116.0 inches
Enclave's length/width/height is 201.8/79.0/72.5 inches Wheelbase 118.9 inches

Enclave has 115.0 cubic feet of cargo room compared to 108.9 cubic feet of cargo room (from GM's websites)

Those two vehicles are basically the same size, the Enclave is actually larger on the inside, the Escaldae is 3 inches taller but it has a big roof rack too.

Enclave is 4780-4985lbs, Escalade, 5545-5723lbs..get a lot more bloat in a similar size w/ the Escalade...

Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:55 PM

Escalde's length/width/height is 202.5/79.0/75.9 inches. Wheelbase 116.0 inches
Enclave's length/width/height is 201.8/79.0/72.5 inches Wheelbase 118.9 inches

Enclave has 115.0 cubic feet of cargo room compared to 108.9 cubic feet of cargo room (from GM's websites)

Those two vehicles are basically the same size, the Enclave is actually larger on the inside, the Escaldae is 3 inches taller but it has a big roof rack too.

Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:58 AM





None of which actually matters, because the XTS is Cadillac's ES350.

I suppose GM just couldn't use the LaCrosse to compete w/ the MKS and ES, which is a more natural competitor for those models than something from Cadillac...


I don't think Buick competes with Lincoln or Lexus. There in lies part of the problem. The LaCrosse competes with the Avalon, Taurus and Maxima. A Maxima can even hit $41,000, so can a SHO. I'd say the Chrysler 300 and Genesis are competitors also on size and price point, different drive wheels, but they would still get cross shopped I think.

Since Buick is not a luxury car, Cadillac has to wear many hats, thus they need an XTS to cater to those in Florida that like pastel pearl paint jobs and seats you sink in to. I question if they really need to cater to this market though. Or if the CTS were as well executed as the E-class that it couldn't attract both those that want smooth ride and those that want performance.


The Lacrosse and Enclave are most certainly luxury vehicles. They do quiet, power, and handling better than their counterparts at Lexus

I still don't see Buick as luxury. A Nissan Maxima is $2,000 more than a LaCrosse, is that a luxruy car? The LaCrosse and Enclave are also full size vehicles, a car or SUV of that size from a luxury brand would cost far more. Enclave is the same size and seating capacity as an Escalade, yet the Escalade is $30,000 more. So if the Enclave is a true luxury SUV, then why are people buying Escaldes, or why aren't they charging $60k for an Enclave? The reason being the Envlace nor any Buick are luxury vehicles.


Cost isn't the basis of being a luxury car. The base Maxima is not a luxury car, but I can see a loaded up model being one. The Lacrosse is a modern interpretation of old school luxury. It is extremely quiet, soft and comfortable, reasonably powerful, and comes with a good amount of technology. What's been updated is the actual handling. It is no 3-series, but it isn't meant to be. It is a vehicle for people who value extra comfort over apexing turns.

The Enclave is NOT the same size as the Escalade, nor does it have the same capabilities, nor does it have as much engine.... stop making $h! up. You'd get laughed out of any dealership for making such a suggestion.

Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:56 AM

Three big sources are here,

1) Both the University of Washington and Washington University have special programs that had considerable input from Boeing on Carbon Fiber Engineering and Manufacturing. AKA Why the DreamLiner became reality
2) Reliable, cheap Hydro Power since it takes lots of power to create/manufacture CF.
3) Cheap transportation of raw materials on the rail lines going through Moses Lake.

Makes sense..I figured w/ Boeing in Wa there would be considerable materials engineering and mftg talent available. Sounds like BMW is working on mainstreaming CF in a big way..

Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:53 AM




HyperV6, I agree with your whole listed statement of new technologies.

BMW is almost done building their new Carbon Fiber (CF) Manufacturing Plant in Moses Lake Washington. They have also built a small test track there and have stated that they will be starting with building CF parts for their M line of auto's and will expand it as cost go down. They seem to be wanting to get their hands on Boeings CF part engineers and manufacturing employees at their CF plant there.

I see CF parts becoming more common on all vehicles as a way to greatly reduce weight.

DreamAuto in our Futre?


The key to CF in the future is to cut the production time and labor. Who ever does this opens the door to the future. Teijin GM's new partner has a way of making CF Thermo plastics and they can do cycle times in under one minute. Conventional CF Thermosetting composites take much longer and in this deal time is money and the ability to do great volumes are limited.

I expect even more things will come into play.

Even with the cost savings I expect the price of these new cars to climb with the need for these more expensive materials to cut weight. At this point they have no choice.

Here is what GM put out to the media on their new partnership. http://media.gm.com/...Dec/1208_teijin


In the short term, yes prices will rise, but long term they will drop as the technology that is going into the total CF plan DreamLiner is being used to scale down costs and speed up creation of CF parts. I think with a solid work force, we will see this happen sooner rather than later.

Check out the opening of the Moses Lake BMW CF plant.

http://www.bizjourna...rbon-fiber.html

Check out the pictures, the best are the one of the new BMW M6 bumper and the I3 Body made of CF. Really cool stuff.

http://www.torquenew...t-moses-lake-wa

That's pretty cool...interesting that BMW would open a plant in Washington..seems like an off-the-radar location for an auto-related plant...does carbon naturally occur there or something?


Three big sources are here,

1) Both the University of Washington and Washington University have special programs that had considerable input from Boeing on Carbon Fiber Engineering and Manufacturing. AKA Why the DreamLiner became reality
2) Reliable, cheap Hydro Power since it takes lots of power to create/manufacture CF.
3) Cheap transportation of raw materials on the rail lines going through Moses Lake.

Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:17 AM



HyperV6, I agree with your whole listed statement of new technologies.

BMW is almost done building their new Carbon Fiber (CF) Manufacturing Plant in Moses Lake Washington. They have also built a small test track there and have stated that they will be starting with building CF parts for their M line of auto's and will expand it as cost go down. They seem to be wanting to get their hands on Boeings CF part engineers and manufacturing employees at their CF plant there.

I see CF parts becoming more common on all vehicles as a way to greatly reduce weight.

DreamAuto in our Futre?


The key to CF in the future is to cut the production time and labor. Who ever does this opens the door to the future. Teijin GM's new partner has a way of making CF Thermo plastics and they can do cycle times in under one minute. Conventional CF Thermosetting composites take much longer and in this deal time is money and the ability to do great volumes are limited.

I expect even more things will come into play.

Even with the cost savings I expect the price of these new cars to climb with the need for these more expensive materials to cut weight. At this point they have no choice.

Here is what GM put out to the media on their new partnership. http://media.gm.com/...Dec/1208_teijin


In the short term, yes prices will rise, but long term they will drop as the technology that is going into the total CF plan DreamLiner is being used to scale down costs and speed up creation of CF parts. I think with a solid work force, we will see this happen sooner rather than later.

Check out the opening of the Moses Lake BMW CF plant.

http://www.bizjourna...rbon-fiber.html

Check out the pictures, the best are the one of the new BMW M6 bumper and the I3 Body made of CF. Really cool stuff.

http://www.torquenew...t-moses-lake-wa

That's pretty cool...interesting that BMW would open a plant in Washington..seems like an off-the-radar location for an auto-related plant...does carbon naturally occur there or something?

Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:12 AM


HyperV6, I agree with your whole listed statement of new technologies.

BMW is almost done building their new Carbon Fiber (CF) Manufacturing Plant in Moses Lake Washington. They have also built a small test track there and have stated that they will be starting with building CF parts for their M line of auto's and will expand it as cost go down. They seem to be wanting to get their hands on Boeings CF part engineers and manufacturing employees at their CF plant there.

I see CF parts becoming more common on all vehicles as a way to greatly reduce weight.

DreamAuto in our Futre?


The key to CF in the future is to cut the production time and labor. Who ever does this opens the door to the future. Teijin GM's new partner has a way of making CF Thermo plastics and they can do cycle times in under one minute. Conventional CF Thermosetting composites take much longer and in this deal time is money and the ability to do great volumes are limited.

I expect even more things will come into play.

Even with the cost savings I expect the price of these new cars to climb with the need for these more expensive materials to cut weight. At this point they have no choice.

Here is what GM put out to the media on their new partnership. http://media.gm.com/...Dec/1208_teijin


In the short term, yes prices will rise, but long term they will drop as the technology that is going into the total CF plan DreamLiner is being used to scale down costs and speed up creation of CF parts. I think with a solid work force, we will see this happen sooner rather than later.

Check out the opening of the Moses Lake BMW CF plant.

http://www.bizjourna...rbon-fiber.html

Check out the pictures, the best are the one of the new BMW M6 bumper and the I3 Body made of CF. Really cool stuff.

http://www.torquenew...t-moses-lake-wa

Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:37 PM

HyperV6, I agree with your whole listed statement of new technologies.

BMW is almost done building their new Carbon Fiber (CF) Manufacturing Plant in Moses Lake Washington. They have also built a small test track there and have stated that they will be starting with building CF parts for their M line of auto's and will expand it as cost go down. They seem to be wanting to get their hands on Boeings CF part engineers and manufacturing employees at their CF plant there.

I see CF parts becoming more common on all vehicles as a way to greatly reduce weight.

DreamAuto in our Futre?


The key to CF in the future is to cut the production time and labor. Who ever does this opens the door to the future. Teijin GM's new partner has a way of making CF Thermo plastics and they can do cycle times in under one minute. Conventional CF Thermosetting composites take much longer and in this deal time is money and the ability to do great volumes are limited.

I expect even more things will come into play.

Even with the cost savings I expect the price of these new cars to climb with the need for these more expensive materials to cut weight. At this point they have no choice.

Here is what GM put out to the media on their new partnership. http://media.gm.com/...Dec/1208_teijin

Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

Aren't the BMW Intelligent Dynamics i products (i3, i8) supposed to have a lot of CF in them?

Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:20 PM

Word is the next CTS may get an 8-speed automatic, but probably not at launch. To me the CTS needs 8 gears, even if they have to buy it off ZF. There has to be some sort of diesel or hybrid model that posts high fuel economy as well since Infiniti, Lexus, BMW have hybrids, and Merecedes has diesel, and Audi or Jaguar may add a diesel by 2015.


The 8 speed is a given and at last time I heard it will be ready for the into of the CTS and Camaro barring any unforseen delays. No mystery here.

Same with the hybrid as GM is getting to the point that every model they make will have some kind of a hybrid version only the Vette is excluded at this point. I expect the Cadillac will be the most advanced of all the versions and it will expand down as volume increases. Call it trickle down technology.

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