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Replying to Ferrari Challenger from Cadillac


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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:56 PM


I don't see the LFA doing much for Lexus other than get some press coverage. I suspect it has not lead to many sales other than the handful of LFA's they have sold. At least it is closer to the core product with the engine up front so it could better represent the core products.

There will be a time for a product like this but GM needs to make it relate to what Cadillac really is and they need to have the rest of their line up in place. As of now the ATS is not on the market., the CTS is still farther out and the LTS is still on paper. Once these cars are our and done right then you can go with a show case car that will best represent the rest of the products.

The Benz SLR at least represented a vehicle similar to the rest of their products and the Audi R8 would not be if it were not for VW owning Lambo.

I'm ok with a performance car but they need somthing that better represents the kind of cars they sell. Cadillac never has been a Ferrari Fighter and never will be. Better to take one of the type cars you have and make a super coupe with a luxury interior.


That is precisely the defensive mindset I was talking about.

Find excuses about why other manufacturers are successful and why GM cannot be. People here bitch about brand dilution of Cadillac by sharing its components with Chevies, yet they are okay for a Lamborghini sharing components with the lesser Audi. GM already has a capable platform in Corvette why not utilize it and create something better for Cadillac?

In similar tone, "Hyundai was never a luxury car make and never will be. Toyota (in 80s) was never a luxury car maker and never will be. Lexus never produced a supercar and never will do so." Those manufacturers did not think it that way.

Ciel invoked more positive response from import lovers than ATS has and yet one is not going into production.

Again, given the resources and talent GM has, it should stop making excuses.


First off point one

Audi sharing Lambo parts is a hand me down and a positive. Cadillacs sharing Chevy past is a hand me up. You can always sweeten a lesser car by marketing a better cars parts in a lesser car but it is a hard sell when you install your value leader parts in you premium car. This sends a poor marketing message. I am dam proud to have a ZR1 steering wheel in my HHR SS and a 3.6 V6 like a CTS in my Maliu. On the other hand it sends a poor quality image to pass my HHR wheel up to a ZR1 since it had it first.

As for using the Vette for a Cadillac. I thought we did that already and it went so well? It was a nice car and my buddy has a XLR V that is fun to drive but few people were willing to take a chance since Cadillas as still stuggling to make a car better than a DTS.

As for Hyundai and Toyota reaching. That is fine as Toyota is at the top of the market and Hyundai is at the top of popularity and public opinion. When you have your house and product lines in order then it is ok to reach. Cadillac is working to get their house in order but they are not there yet.

As for the Ciel it and the Sixteen will make up the look of the LTS. Each will play a part in this car. I suspect that even many on this web site are underestimating what we will get. Lutz is involved with this car and I expect nothing less than stunning from the car.

Z I have no issue with Cadillac reaching out and doing a car no one expects but I only would want them to do so once they get their new products out and get things right. They have more work to do. The Solstice drew attention to Pontiac but did not save them. The Sky did not do much to help Saturn and they died.

I do have an example where a sports car did help a division. The Fiero did attract a lot of attention and did get many people into the show rooms. It help sell a lot of other Pontiacs but Pontiac did have a new Grand AM and a new Firebird that help transform the image.

I am ok with Cadillac doing a look at me car but lets first worry about getting the ATS, new CTS and LTS out and make them the best they can be and then we sprinkle a little sports car on the dealer and then let them sell. I would not target Ferrari as they will never measure up to them as they are like Harley. You can build a better Harley buy people buy the name. Same with Apple I phone etc. You can make it better but the name is a hard one to break. In fact Fiat could put a small Ferrari engine in a 500 and out sell out just because of the Ferrari name.

Cadillac should target Audi or Bently and then move up once they reach this level.

Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:34 PM

If Ford could fight Ferrari and win, so can Cadillac.


Yep and the years that followed did so much for Ford. They had the Granada, Maverick, Mustang II and Ah yes the Pinto. I can see now how well the Gurney, Foyt win did so much for Fords product and image.

The The new Mustang, 80's Taurus and Eco Boost has done more for Fords image and sales than the GT 40 program did for them in the past.

The truth is Shelby did more for the GT40 than Ford did. Henry just wrote the checks between drinks.LOL!

Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:46 PM


I don't see the LFA doing much for Lexus other than get some press coverage. I suspect it has not lead to many sales other than the handful of LFA's they have sold. At least it is closer to the core product with the engine up front so it could better represent the core products.

There will be a time for a product like this but GM needs to make it relate to what Cadillac really is and they need to have the rest of their line up in place. As of now the ATS is not on the market., the CTS is still farther out and the LTS is still on paper. Once these cars are our and done right then you can go with a show case car that will best represent the rest of the products.

The Benz SLR at least represented a vehicle similar to the rest of their products and the Audi R8 would not be if it were not for VW owning Lambo.

I'm ok with a performance car but they need somthing that better represents the kind of cars they sell. Cadillac never has been a Ferrari Fighter and never will be. Better to take one of the type cars you have and make a super coupe with a luxury interior.


That is precisely the defensive mindset I was talking about.

Find excuses about why other manufacturers are successful and why GM cannot be. People here bitch about brand dilution of Cadillac by sharing its components with Chevies, yet they are okay for a Lamborghini sharing components with the lesser Audi. GM already has a capable platform in Corvette why not utilize it and create something better for Cadillac?

In similar tone, "Hyundai was never a luxury car make and never will be. Toyota (in 80s) was never a luxury car maker and never will be. Lexus never produced a supercar and never will do so." Those manufacturers did not think it that way.

Ciel invoked more positive response from import lovers than ATS has and yet one is not going into production.

Again, given the resources and talent GM has, it should stop making excuses.


I not only totally support what Z is saying, we need to FORCE one more important point! The DEALERSHIPS, What do I mean. China has these amazing Cadillac dealerships that make people want to visit. Our Current DEALERSHIPS SUCK!!! :banghead:

My Caddy Dealership that I have bought my CTS, SRX, Escalade and hummer from has done NOTHING except change their main sign which still reads Northwest Cadillac/Hummer Dealership. Yet their windows have the Olds, Saturn Logo's all over. The building was new back in the 40's and they expanded in the 60's to take on Olds when the Buick Line went to another place and then expanded for Hummer when it came out but never built any hummer like show floor, kept it the same old ugly 40's building and then they converted a couple bays to allow them to sell Suzuki's before GM forced them to unload that line. Yet those bays have Suzuki all over them as they use them for storing stuff now.

Dealerships MUST Upgrade to be competitive. The Bellevue Caddy Dealership moved over into their dead Hummer building which does have the required H building and across the street the Bellevue Lexus Dealership built a feaking 3 story 175,000 square feet show room on the mid and top floor and the bottom floor is all repair and prep.
Take their Virtual Tour
http://www.lexusofbellevue.com/
This is how Cadillac stores should be. The Bellevue place will not even show images of their showroom. :(

Cadillac MUST Step up their image at the stores to get new customers and keep existing ones! :rage:

Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

I don't see the LFA doing much for Lexus other than get some press coverage. I suspect it has not lead to many sales other than the handful of LFA's they have sold. At least it is closer to the core product with the engine up front so it could better represent the core products.

There will be a time for a product like this but GM needs to make it relate to what Cadillac really is and they need to have the rest of their line up in place. As of now the ATS is not on the market., the CTS is still farther out and the LTS is still on paper. Once these cars are our and done right then you can go with a show case car that will best represent the rest of the products.

The Benz SLR at least represented a vehicle similar to the rest of their products and the Audi R8 would not be if it were not for VW owning Lambo.

I'm ok with a performance car but they need somthing that better represents the kind of cars they sell. Cadillac never has been a Ferrari Fighter and never will be. Better to take one of the type cars you have and make a super coupe with a luxury interior.


That is precisely the defensive mindset I was talking about.

Find excuses about why other manufacturers are successful and why GM cannot be. People here bitch about brand dilution of Cadillac by sharing its components with Chevies, yet they are okay for a Lamborghini sharing components with the lesser Audi. GM already has a capable platform in Corvette why not utilize it and create something better for Cadillac?

In similar tone, "Hyundai was never a luxury car make and never will be. Toyota (in 80s) was never a luxury car maker and never will be. Lexus never produced a supercar and never will do so." Those manufacturers did not think it that way.

Ciel invoked more positive response from import lovers than ATS has and yet one is not going into production.

Again, given the resources and talent GM has, it should stop making excuses.

Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:50 AM

If Ford could fight Ferrari and win, so can Cadillac.

Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:45 AM

Defensive mentality is pretty bad. That is what got GM in trouble. Be it defense for market share, profits, or avoiding strikes.

Infinity has a joke of a lineup yet wants a supercar. Lexus is a two FWD horses brand yet has a car 5 times more expensive than its costliest vehicle and has shown off another concept supercar. Acura, well it is a FWD orgasmic joke and yet had a supercar and will have a new one.

There was a German article where one of the top BMW bosses acknowledged that BMW did not get enough brand recognition in Asian countries because of lack of a halo vehicle compared to likes of R8 and SLR, etc.

Development of such a car and vanilla products can be done concurrently, given GM's strength and resources.


I don't see the LFA doing much for Lexus other than get some press coverage. I suspect it has not lead to many sales other than the handful of LFA's they have sold. At least it is closer to the core product with the engine up front so it could better represent the core products.

There will be a time for a product like this but GM needs to make it relate to what Cadillac really is and they need to have the rest of their line up in place. As of now the ATS is not on the market., the CTS is still farther out and the LTS is still on paper. Once these cars are our and done right then you can go with a show case car that will best represent the rest of the products.

The Benz SLR at least represented a vehicle similar to the rest of their products and the Audi R8 would not be if it were not for VW owning Lambo.

I'm ok with a performance car but they need somthing that better represents the kind of cars they sell. Cadillac never has been a Ferrari Fighter and never will be. Better to take one of the type cars you have and make a super coupe with a luxury interior.

Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:35 AM

'do something interesting on the ATS?'
Like a lighter, tighter, newer 3-series alternative, that isn't wearing stylized granny glasses, with a coupe, convert & a rumored ATS-V in the pipeline isn't in anyway interesting. Oh I forgot; the next 3-series is rumored to FLY.


I have yet to see a V or a Coupe yet. They need to take that first step to support their core products.

Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:32 AM

I think GM can walk and chew gum at the same time.


Well in their case walking would just be a good start. Right now they are just like they got their knee replaced and they have just started rehab.

Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

Defensive mentality is pretty bad. That is what got GM in trouble. Be it defense for market share, profits, or avoiding strikes.

Infinity has a joke of a lineup yet wants a supercar. Lexus is a two FWD horses brand yet has a car 5 times more expensive than its costliest vehicle and has shown off another concept supercar. Acura, well it is a FWD orgasmic joke and yet had a supercar and will have a new one.

There was a German article where one of the top BMW bosses acknowledged that BMW did not get enough brand recognition in Asian countries because of lack of a halo vehicle compared to likes of R8 and SLR, etc.

Development of such a car and vanilla products can be done concurrently, given GM's strength and resources.

Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:59 PM

'do something interesting on the ATS?'
Like a lighter, tighter, newer 3-series alternative, that isn't wearing stylized granny glasses, with a coupe, convert & a rumored ATS-V in the pipeline isn't in anyway interesting. Oh I forgot; the next 3-series is rumored to FLY.

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