[Flybrian]

Josh, on Oct 24 2005, 08:31 AM, said:

On the down side, many truck owners require their vehicles to tow or haul heavy loads over long distances. Hybrid battery power is nearly useless in that aspect. As a result, a pickup cannot scrimp on engine displacement without sacrificing towing performance, Hermance said. That hurts fuel economy, the main benefit of a hybrid.

Takimoto noted that long-distance towing stresses the durability of a hybrid system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No biggie. When's the last time you've seen a Tundra tow something larger than a pair of jetskis or a $19.99 lil' lugger UHaul?

[Clownzilla]

Flybrian, on Oct 24 2005, 07:34 AM, said:

No biggie. When's the last time you've seen a Tundra tow something larger than a pair of jetskis or a $19.99 lil' lugger UHaul?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Most people buy trucks (especially Japanese trucks) for the "urban cowboy" persona. It makes them feel rugged. Most workers I see end up driving Chevy and Ford trucks, which in turn do need the power. I hope GM makes their hybrid (their REAL hybrid, not their truck hybrid they are getting very soon) worker friendly. In all the articles I have read, the GM hybrid will do just that.

[Flybrian]

Clownzilla, on Oct 24 2005, 08:52 AM, said:

I agree. Most people buy trucks (especially Japanese trucks) for the "urban cowboy" persona. It makes them feel rugged. Most workers I see end up driving Chevy and Ford trucks, which in turn do need the power. I hope GM makes their hybrid (their REAL hybrid, not their truck hybrid they are getting very soon) worker friendly. In all the articles I have read, the GM hybrid will do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In light of hearing this, I hope so, too. Already, the mild hybrid system in the Silverado/Sierra is quite worker-friendly as it doubles as an in-truck generator with multiple outlets - it just isn't really fuel-friendly!

[Newbiewar]

Flybrian, on Oct 24 2005, 07:14 AM, said:

In light of hearing this, I hope so, too. Already, the mild hybrid system in the Silverado/Sierra is quite worker-friendly as it doubles as an in-truck generator with multiple outlets - it just isn't really fuel-friendly!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it isnt really supposed to be... its not a true hybrid... it's supposed to be good for a 10% increase but... thats only 1 or 2 mpg...

but i think the funniest thing i ever saw was a tundra hauling a horse trailer... like 2 horse i think... and it seemed the truck was dragging on the ground... then a 1/2 mile later... i see a ford with like a 5 horse trailer hauling it no problem... its kinda funny...

[haypops]

Newbiewar, on Oct 24 2005, 07:23 AM, said:

but i think the funniest thing i ever saw was a tundra hauling a horse trailer... like 2 horse i think... and it seemed the truck was dragging on the ground... then a 1/2 mile later... i see a ford with like a 5 horse trailer hauling it no problem... its kinda funny...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Proper towing techniques require the careful loading of the trailer so as to result in 100-200 lbs. of weight on the hitch, ONLY. It sounds like the Toyota owner didn't understand this, not that his truck was incapable.

[cmattson]

Hitch weight and trailer weight are both considerations in towing. When you pull more than your vehicle is rated for, you are putting everybody on the road at risk. I pull a 3500lb travel trailer with my Suburban - and it handles it very, very comfortably. I've pulled into a headwind, uphill at seventy and it hardly brakes a sweat. If GM finally gets their full-hybrid systems to the market, they might finally beat Toyota to a hybrid segment. I'm wondering if Toyota is having any problems adapting their single-in-line hybrid system to work on their full-size units. How well can a single electric motor power a full-size truck; I'd imagine that it would labor quite a bit and that it's range of speed would be very, very limited. You'd need to either (1) build the electric motor around the transmission gearing to make use of the additional gearsets (like GM), or (2) use a larger motor. Using a larger motor would be a bit unappetizing because it would add expense and weight -- so GM's approach really makes sense. I'd imagine GM's got a magnitude of copyrighted/patents in the dual-mode/built-around the transmission design. I wonder if that's going to hinder Toyota's efforts any.

This post has been edited by cmattson: 24 October 2005 - 11:11 AM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'll bet you $100 that they beat GM to the punch on this.

Quote

Press said big trucks are Toyota's "biggest opportunity for growth."

Well of course....

Maybe he's hinting to the media.

[ponchoman49]

My advise to Toyota: figure out how to make the Prius work without taking time off on the highway before you delve into a pickup truck. But wait isn't that what we all want to see. New Toyota hybrid pickup truck being recalled right after it's launch. Would be just another nail in there coffin.

[Sixty8panther]

I bet it will get like 0.75 mpg more than the standard Tundra... or perhaps even 1.25 mpg more. SO worht the $6000 extra maintenance costs for 5 years/100K miles and not to mention the extra $8000 in initial cost.

[haypops]

ponchoman49, on Oct 25 2005, 07:32 AM, said:

New Toyota hybrid pickup truck being recalled right after it's launch. Would be just another nail in there coffin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder if that is really what we want. It is possible that a loss of consumer confidance in Toyota would cause a loss of consumer confidance in all vehicles including GM. GM could end up with a slighlty larger market share of a considerably smaller total market. I think that what most benefit GM is that it were seen as an equal to Toyota.

[Flybrian]

haypops, on Oct 25 2005, 11:44 AM, said:

It is possible that a loss of consumer confidance in Toyota would cause a loss of consumer confidance in all vehicles including GM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly I don't see that happening. Toyota isn't Jesus or some last great hope, so if it falls that badly, people will simply turn to other imports (esp Honda) or take another look at domestics and perhaps be pleasently surprised.

[haypops]

Flybrian, on Oct 25 2005, 09:49 AM, said:

Honestly I don't see that happening. Toyota isn't Jesus or some last great hope, so if it falls that badly, people will simply turn to other imports (esp Honda) or take another look at domestics and perhaps be pleasently surprised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I understand your point, I do think some people will just hold onto their present car if their belief system is abruptly shaken. This is of course "short term".

[CaddyXLR-V]

I can see that happening with hydrogen cars though. All it takes is one manufacturer to rush to be first with unreliable systems. Just look at diesels. Alot of people avoid them at all costs.

[Sixty8panther]

*Thinks for a minute*

Instead of proving how crappy & over rated Japanese cars are I think it's more beneficial and logical to prove to the world that GM makes great cars & trucks and for the money there is no better value. Negative campaigning will just turn ugly.

[cmattson]

More info from edmunds: http://ualuealuealeuale.ytmnd.com/

The new Tundra will debut at this year's NAIAS. The truck will reach production in early '06 - and the hybrid model will be avail. in 2007 (presumably as an '08 model).

Clearly, Toyota is attempting to keep GM's pace in the full-size truck market -- this pretty much matches GM's timeframe. GM might be viewed as a little bit behind this because of their choice to push the SUV's ahead of the full-size trucks. I don't think this is going to hurt them, sales-wise, because Toyota has shown an inability to garner significant market share previously + Nissan has offered a more-than-competant import-spawned truck. Nissan is struggling for market share and now must split some sales with Toyota. Most truck owners are fiercly loyal. As for marketing-wise, GM is going to get their *ss handed to them (as usual). Most of the rags will jump all over the Tundra - and GM's trucks will be largely-seen as an also-ran.

One last thing: DOHC, 5.5l, and only 300hp? WTF? GM's now-6-year-old 5.3L pushes well past 300hp -- and doesn't have nearly the "technology" Toyota's latest effort has.. I'll wait to see the final numbers, but if Edmunds is accurate (and that's a HUGE if), then Toyota will definately be a step-behind GM power-wise (again).

[haypops]

You need to learn how to read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You need to learn to express yourself without being the most obnoxious possible person that you can. Its just a car - cmattson didn't say your baby was ugly!

[balthazar]

More than 300HP could mean 399HP for all we know, so stop the assumptions, and wait till the actual specs are released.

Right. Sure. Just like nissan's titan was said to be bringing "MORE THAN 300 HP!!" and it squeaked in at 305. We know the tundra will be damned close to 300 and no where near even 350. toyota has a 15-year track record of being strictly a follower in the truck segment.

BTW: I've never seen a tundra towing anything... ever. FOlks around here don't seem to have either the 1. need or 2. confidence to do so. ;)

[andy82471]

Right. Sure. Just like nissan's titan was said to be bringing "MORE THAN 300 HP!!" and it squeaked in at 305. We know the tundra will be damned close to 300 and no where near even 350. toyota has a 15-year track record of being strictly a follower in the truck segment.

BTW: I've never seen a tundra towing anything... ever. FOlks around here don't seem to have either the 1. need or 2. confidence to do so. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My guess is HP would be somewhere between 320 to 340 and torque close to 380. Speaking of the Titan I think Nissan is being conservative with their HP figure. Most test shows the Titan is quicker than the 340 HP Hemi powered Dodge. So go figure.