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Buick Regal GS Gets Rated


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#101

frogger

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:37 AM

I've never driven a FWD v6 sedan that felt the least bit balanced once you turn the steering wheel off center.
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#102

hyperv6

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:08 PM

I look forward to the day when GM builds some cars Hyper doesn't have to make excuses for. :smilewide:


What excuses? GM still has a lot of work to do and sticking a V6 or a V8 in this car will solve nothing nor add any more MPG. You might gain a 1/2 to one second on the 0-60 that few buyers will notice. The real fix will come with weight reduction. GM is already taking weight off the engines and if they are doing that you know the next gen cars will also lose a few pounds. Just the new exhaust manifolds on the 3.6 lost 13 pounds. The header companies will hate the cast part of the head but that is the way it goes.

By the way how many LNF turbos have you driven and how much seat time did you get. I assume you also have a lot of 3.6 seat time too? You seen to really understand so much what they are really like to drive in the real world. :rolleyes:
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#103

Camino LS6

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:25 PM

Calm down Hyper, I was joking with you.

See the smiley?
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#104

smk4565

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:59 PM

Biggest problem is price. A Regal 2.0T with option package 7 is $35,000. (why there are 7 option packages I have no idea) A wheel package for $2900 is available. If the GS is that plus the cost for performance bits, this car is about $40k. For near $40k there is:

Acura TSX V6
Acura TL
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 or a 4.6 v8 for a little more
Chrysler 300C
Cadillac CTS
Audi A4
BMW 3-series
Mercedes C-class
Infiniti G37
Lexus IS350
Lincoln MKZ
Ford Taurus SHO

Even if you take out the SHO, 300C and Genesis because they are bigger, there are still many other options for similar money, many with 300 hp and rear wheel drive and a luxury badge. I just don't see the Regal matching up with that list aside form maybe the TSX and MKZ which are duds anyway.
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#105

hyperv6

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:17 PM

Calm down Hyper, I was joking with you.

See the smiley?


Were good, just a tough day at work. We are in the middle of busy season and we have the big race at Norwalk this week. Add to that I am in the middle of building and moving to a new house and new garage. I have to decide which Corvette billboard to put up the 78 Silver anniversery or the 93 Red roadster. Both are 22 X 9 ft. What one would you do?
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#106

hyperv6

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:23 PM

Biggest problem is price. A Regal 2.0T with option package 7 is $35,000. (why there are 7 option packages I have no idea) A wheel package for $2900 is available. If the GS is that plus the cost for performance bits, this car is about $40k. For near $40k there is:

Acura TSX V6
Acura TL
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 or a 4.6 v8 for a little more
Chrysler 300C
Cadillac CTS
Audi A4
BMW 3-series
Mercedes C-class
Infiniti G37
Lexus IS350
Lincoln MKZ
Ford Taurus SHO

Even if you take out the SHO, 300C and Genesis because they are bigger, there are still many other options for similar money, many with 300 hp and rear wheel drive and a luxury badge. I just don't see the Regal matching up with that list aside form maybe the TSX and MKZ which are duds anyway.



This is why in large part we did not get the OPC. It would have been well over $40K. Nice car but tough to sell in this market.

I figure they will keep the price in the mid 30's to kind of under cut the others. Pricing is what killed the GXP Bonnie. It was a nice car but at $38K a few years ago there were some really good RWD cars for just a little more.

The real key to the Regal is the 1.4 Turbo. This is the profit car. They will sell more of these and make more of these. It is the one they need make sure is priced really well. The GS will sell 5000 unit the first year and less after that till the plaform is redone. This car is just a patch in the line up and not the the package Buick going to end with. Like I said before this car will be a short run and we will get a upgraded model say 3 years from now.
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#107

Camino LS6

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:38 PM


Calm down Hyper, I was joking with you.

See the smiley?


Were good, just a tough day at work. We are in the middle of busy season and we have the big race at Norwalk this week. Add to that I am in the middle of building and moving to a new house and new garage. I have to decide which Corvette billboard to put up the 78 Silver anniversery or the 93 Red roadster. Both are 22 X 9 ft. What one would you do?


I think I'd go with the '78 - if it was the Indy pace car, it would be no contest.

That was probably the best pace car package ever on a Corvette.
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#108

smk4565

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:30 PM

This is why in large part we did not get the OPC. It would have been well over $40K. Nice car but tough to sell in this market.

I figure they will keep the price in the mid 30's to kind of under cut the others. Pricing is what killed the GXP Bonnie. It was a nice car but at $38K a few years ago there were some really good RWD cars for just a little more.

The real key to the Regal is the 1.4 Turbo. This is the profit car. They will sell more of these and make more of these. It is the one they need make sure is priced really well. The GS will sell 5000 unit the first year and less after that till the plaform is redone. This car is just a patch in the line up and not the the package Buick going to end with. Like I said before this car will be a short run and we will get a upgraded model say 3 years from now.

There is a 2.4 liter, a 2.0 turbo and a GS, not sure what you mean by the 1.4 turbo. But regardless, the 2.0 Turbo is $30,000-$35,000, and the 19 inch wheels are an extra $2900. Putting a loaded 2.0 at $38,000. The Regal GS I think will cost $40,000, and won't sell at that price.
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#109

hyperv6

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 05:13 AM


This is why in large part we did not get the OPC. It would have been well over $40K. Nice car but tough to sell in this market.

I figure they will keep the price in the mid 30's to kind of under cut the others. Pricing is what killed the GXP Bonnie. It was a nice car but at $38K a few years ago there were some really good RWD cars for just a little more.

The real key to the Regal is the 1.4 Turbo. This is the profit car. They will sell more of these and make more of these. It is the one they need make sure is priced really well. The GS will sell 5000 unit the first year and less after that till the plaform is redone. This car is just a patch in the line up and not the the package Buick going to end with. Like I said before this car will be a short run and we will get a upgraded model say 3 years from now.

There is a 2.4 liter, a 2.0 turbo and a GS, not sure what you mean by the 1.4 turbo. But regardless, the 2.0 Turbo is $30,000-$35,000, and the 19 inch wheels are an extra $2900. Putting a loaded 2.0 at $38,000. The Regal GS I think will cost $40,000, and won't sell at that price.



Sorry I mixed up my engines. Most of the Regals here are really selling for $30K and under. I agree the GS can not get too close or over $40K as there are too many other cars more appealing. If not this will be a rebate car at $33K.
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#110

dwightlooi

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 02:54 PM

IMHO, this should have been the "standard" Turbo Regal. The 220hp version should never have existed.

What would have been better would be a 182hp NA four for those who don't care about making brisk pace, and a 270hp turbo four as a V6 replacement for the model. 270hp is what the 3.0 V6 makes. 270 hp is also what the Sonata Turbo makes. 270hp is not some astronomical number worthy of being reserved for a "GS" model. Doing this probably does not change the cost equation at all since the 220 and 270hp versions of the engine have essentially identical complexity and technological content.

If they wanted a "GS", it should have been introduced as a 300~360hp 3.0 LF3 Bi-turbo with AWD and an advanced center and/or rear differential.
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#111

Lamar

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 03:28 PM

IMHO, this should have been the "standard" Turbo Regal. The 220hp version should never have existed.

What would have been better would be a 182hp NA four for those who don't care about making brisk pace, and a 270hp turbo four as a V6 replacement for the model. 270hp is what the 3.0 V6 makes. 270 hp is also what the Sonata Turbo makes. 270hp is not some astronomical number worthy of being reserved for a "GS" model. Doing this probably does not change the cost equation at all since the 220 and 270hp versions of the engine have essentially identical complexity and technological content.

If they wanted a "GS", it should have been introduced as a 300~360hp 3.0 LF3 Bi-turbo with AWD and an advanced center and/or rear differential.

What you propose as a GS, Dwight, sounds a lot like the GSX package that they used to offer on the last W-body Regal (sans AWD back then, of course).

And there's still room for that and would happen if they could make a business case for bringing the OPC Insignia over (or tooling up for it here).
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#112

hyperv6

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:02 PM

IMHO, this should have been the "standard" Turbo Regal. The 220hp version should never have existed.

What would have been better would be a 182hp NA four for those who don't care about making brisk pace, and a 270hp turbo four as a V6 replacement for the model. 270hp is what the 3.0 V6 makes. 270 hp is also what the Sonata Turbo makes. 270hp is not some astronomical number worthy of being reserved for a "GS" model. Doing this probably does not change the cost equation at all since the 220 and 270hp versions of the engine have essentially identical complexity and technological content.

If they wanted a "GS", it should have been introduced as a 300~360hp 3.0 LF3 Bi-turbo with AWD and an advanced center and/or rear differential.


The 220 Turbo is not branded a performance car just a sporty sedan with more power. Power it really needs to get the mass moving. I expect it will be the one that sells the most.

While the 300-360 Bi Turbo AWD sound great do you really thing people would pay between $40K-50K for it? This is why I expect the OPC is not here. The OPC is not cheap in Europe let alone what it would cost here.

Buick gets a pass this time on this car as it is like the Chrysler 200. It is just an older model filling hole till the new clean sheet of paper car arrives. The next car needs to be right and more than the customer expects. It need to exceed expectations to make a dent in this market. The present car while nice only meet expectations. GM needs to step it up to move forward.

As it is now I just got a flyer today from a local dealer showing Regals available for as low as $25K and they were well optioned. 220 Turbo's were under $30K.
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#113

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 08:20 AM



It simply fails in its mission to provide performance while maintaining MPG.

Isn't that what potent 4-bangers are supposed to do?

For comparison's sake again:
Subaru Impreza WRX STI*: 17/23, 305 hp
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo*: 17/23, 291 hp
Honda S2000: 18/24, 232 hp
Dodge Caliber SRT4: 19/27, 285 hp
MAZDASPEED3: 18/26, 263 hp

Regal GS: ??/28, 270 hp
... and I'd venture that the Regal GS is more liveable day-to-day than any of these five cars... and not just because it's a size class or two bigger, either.

* - yes, they have AWD. But yes, they're still lighter than the Regal.


What Camino is saying there is that a 3.6L DI could have been very well used in the car to give the desired or better results of performance with equivalent fuel efficiency, contrary to what general perception is being filtered about turbo-charging smaller engines to have equivalent power numbers of a larger engine to see tremendous gain in fuel economy.


and utterly destroyed the very good (for a FWD) weight balance that the Regal has.
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#114

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 08:24 AM

Then what's the point of the car?

Why use a turbo 4 if it isn't going to deliver both the power and the fuel economy?

The car seems... pointless.


Here's the point.

Posted Image

It has a better torque curve (peaks @ lower rpm, overall flatter) than a Northstar V8 at less than half the displacement.
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#115

Z-06

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:30 PM




It simply fails in its mission to provide performance while maintaining MPG.

Isn't that what potent 4-bangers are supposed to do?

For comparison's sake again:
Subaru Impreza WRX STI*: 17/23, 305 hp
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo*: 17/23, 291 hp
Honda S2000: 18/24, 232 hp
Dodge Caliber SRT4: 19/27, 285 hp
MAZDASPEED3: 18/26, 263 hp

Regal GS: ??/28, 270 hp
... and I'd venture that the Regal GS is more liveable day-to-day than any of these five cars... and not just because it's a size class or two bigger, either.

* - yes, they have AWD. But yes, they're still lighter than the Regal.


What Camino is saying there is that a 3.6L DI could have been very well used in the car to give the desired or better results of performance with equivalent fuel efficiency, contrary to what general perception is being filtered about turbo-charging smaller engines to have equivalent power numbers of a larger engine to see tremendous gain in fuel economy.


and utterly destroyed the very good (for a FWD) weight balance that the Regal has.


Wrong sir, with plumbing the LNF weighed approx. 350 lbs (300 lb for block + 50 lb for the plumbings), which is in line with approx. 370 lbs for the 3.6VVT DI. So the 20 lbs more for a 3,800 lb car will not utterly destroy the FWD weight balance. Weight balance was an issue with the 3.0TT, which is why the OPC did not make to the shores here as a GS apart from the cost.
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