55 replies to this topic

[Z-06]

What do you think an ideal Cadillac Lineup should be?

Please include:

• Vehicle Type (sedan, coupe, roadster, etc.) and (entry level sedan, mid-size, etc.)
• Price Bracket for the vehicle type
• Engines and transmission options for each vehicle type
• Drive wheels configuration for each vehicle type (FWD, RWD, 4x4, AWD)

Let us get our creative juices flowing.

[smk4565]

Sounds fun. I don't love the ATS name or any alphabet soup name, but I'll stick with them since that is what they have. For transmission, 8-speed automatic standard on all Cadillacs.

THE CARS

ATS: small sedan, coupe, convertible near 182 inches long
$33,000-$45,000 ($2,000 more for convertible)
RWD or AWD 2.0 turbo 4 with 260 hp, 3.6 V6 with 320 hp, 2.0 turbo diesel (e-Assist optional)
ATS-V sedan/coupe $59,000, 430 hp twin turbo V6

CTS: mid-size sedan, coupe wagon near 191 inches long
$44,000-60,000
RWD or AWD. 2.0 turbo 4, 3.6 V6, 3.0 turbo diesel V6, twin turbo 4.0 DOHC V8 (e-Assist optional)
CTS-V sedan/coupe $79,000, twin turbo 5.0 DOHC V8 with eAssist

Fleetwood: full size sedan SWB 199 inches long, LWB 205 inches long. Aluminum chassis and body
$85,000-130,000
RWD or AWD
3.0L turbo diesel V6, 3.6 twin turbo V6, 4.0 twin turbo DOHC V8, 5.0 twin turbo DOHC V8 (eAssist standard on all)

Eldorado: small to mid size Grand Tourer coupe/convertible on aluminum chassis (XK, SL, 911 competitor)
$75-110,000
RWD
3.6 V6, 4.0 V8, 5.0 V8 (all twin-turbo, DOHC, with eAssist)

(ATS-V and CTS-V offer manual transmission also)


THE TRUCKS

BRX: small SUV on ATS platform
$35-50,000
RWD or AWD. 2.0T, 3.6 V6 w/ eAssist

SRX mid-size SUV on CTS platform
$46-65,000
RWD or AWD
3.6 V6 and turbo 4.0 V8 (eAssist optional)

Escalade: large SUV continues on based of the Tahoe, but the whole GMT900 line likely needs rethought with CAFE (weight reduction)
$60-80,000
RWD or AWD
3.0 turbo diesel V6, 4.0 turbo V8 with e-Assist

Edited by smk4565, 16 June 2011 - 08:57 PM.

[Z-06]

Good Starting Point smk. There are some configurations that I would defer to, nevertheless a valid lineup.

[riviera74]

I like those ideas, SMK4565, but I doubt there will ever be a Fleetwood or an Eldorado again. Types of car, yes. As for the Escalade, I suspect that the GMT900 successor will probably dump a few hundred pounds in order to upgrade MPG across the board. Prices might be a bit high, but if GM makes a Cadillac-exclusive interior that shames the Germans (and Japanese) luxury marques, that would be worth the premium prices.

Interiors really matter now. GM cannot afford to cheapen them or F*** them up.

[smk4565]

They probably won't call it Fleetwood, probably ZTS or something lame. Cadillac's model names have little brand equity, they are remind me of Lincoln and Acura. I'd rather them use real names, but interiors are a big key. Cadillac interiors of late seem cramped and small. I'd like to see the ATS with the same interior room of a CTS, and the CTS get bigger on the inside with no change to the exterior dimensions.

GMT900 successor will have to get lighter, maybe smaller. Given the success of the Ecoboost F150, I can see the next-gen Tahoe/Escalade having a turbo V6, hybrid technology will have to be in the mix. Between CAFE and gas prices or $4 or more a gallon, the GMT900 is going to have to see changes.

My whole Cadillac line is what I'd like to see for 2015. Factoring in increased CAFE, higher gas prices, and what the competition is doing, I think eAssist or some form of hybrid is needed on every model line. Not that I think Lincoln is a big threat, but the next MKZ hybrid is expected to have 47 mpg city. That will attract some buyers, and Cadillac has to have an answer for that.

[Z-06]

Anyone else who would like to dig in?

[Camino LS6]

I would end truck-based Cadillacs.

[z28luvr01]

I'd go with a lineup similar to SMKs, though I'd probably use some different hardware.

For the Escalade, I'd put it on LWB Zeta. I think a blinged out Art & Science version of the Denali XT would make a fine Escalade.

[Cubical-aka-Moltar]

I would end truck-based Cadillacs.

Agreed..

I like SMK's line, I'd especially like to see the Fleetwood, Eldorado and de Ville names return, though most likely they will go with boring *TS names. A smaller-than-ATS entry-lux model may be needed to compete w/ the 1-series, A1/A3, A-class, CT, etc. Something around the size of the Spark or Aveo, like the radical city car concept last year..that would be an acceptable use of FWD in the line.

[Camino LS6]

I'd go with a lineup similar to SMKs, though I'd probably use some different hardware.

For the Escalade, I'd put it on LWB Zeta. I think a blinged out Art & Science version of the Denali XT would make a fine Escalade.

Yup.

Been a champion of this idea for some time now.

[Z-06]

What is interesting in smk's proposal is that he is offering no direct competition to S classe's 63, 600 and 65 cars in V recipe.

I personally do not think Caddy should go below ATS. That is where Buick should be with various Astra and Corsa body styles.

A couple of questions:

What about a Bentley sedan fighter?
A Mid engine sports car to go against Gallardo, R8, SLS and F458?

[Cubical-aka-Moltar]

What is interesting in smk's proposal is that he is offering no direct competition to S classe's 63, 600 and 65 cars in V recipe.

Yeah, a V version of his 'Fleetwood' makes sense...but those are very low volume...the S AMGs only sell in the 100s per year, right?

What about a Bentley sedan fighter?

Too ambitious at this point..

A Mid engine sports car to go against Gallardo, R8, and F458?

Too ambitious. Or that is where a super Corvette could go..(not to change the topic, but I still like the idea of a multi-model Corvette range--small entry level sports car (i.e. Solstice 2.0), a regular model in the current Vette niche, and a mid-engined supercar..)

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar, 17 June 2011 - 02:29 PM.

[smk4565]

The Fleetwood in my line up could have a V-series version, I'd use the proposed 5.0 liter turbo V8 for it. So that engine is shared with the cts-v. That would put the car against the Quattroporte, A8, Supercharged XJ, etc. I know that puts Cadillac short of the S600 and AMG S-class but you can't compete with everything and a hyper powered huge.cadillas won't sell

[smk4565]

I also think a mid engine supercar is too ambitious. Cadillac won't sell any of them. I think they can sell a GT car like a Jaguar XK. They sold XLRs and the car wasn't very good. Make it a 2+2 with a legit interior and it could be successful.

[Z-06]

We cannot say "Standard of the World" and "Too Ambitious" in the same sentence. If Cadillac needs to be on TOP of the World, then those cars are essential, granted later down the lane for Cadillac.

Bentley competitor may be even economically feasible if it shares the platform with the Fleetwoood, thus making high price, low volume and high profitability more sense.

[PurdueGuy]

I can't see using the Fleetwood name. I prefer the "real" (non alphanumeric) names, but when I think Fleetwood, I think of an extra fat looking Deville with fender skirts. It just feels "old". I could see using some of the other classic Cadillac names, like Eldorado.

[FAPTurbo]

Fleetwood? Really? Will it have a velour interior and four-speaker cassette system as standard?

[riviera74]

I would end truck-based Cadillacs.

Uh, no. Here is why the Escalade should NOT be on Lambda: Buick Enclave. And a better reason: Escalades are more profitable because they are on GMT900, not Lambda.

[riviera74]

I would end truck-based Cadillacs.

Agreed..

I like SMK's line, I'd especially like to see the Fleetwood, Eldorado and de Ville names return, though most likely they will go with boring *TS names. A smaller-than-ATS entry-lux model may be needed to compete w/ the 1-series, A1/A3, A-class, CT, etc. Something around the size of the Spark or Aveo, like the radical city car concept last year..that would be an acceptable use of FWD in the line.

The reason Cadillac went with alphanumeric designations rather than names was to emphasize Cadillac, as opposed to DeVille and Eldorado. Also, most luxury marques use alphanumeric in order to emphasize the brand itself.

[smk4565]

The reason Cadillac went with alphanumeric designations rather than names was to emphasize Cadillac, as opposed to DeVille and Eldorado. Also, most luxury marques use alphanumeric in order to emphasize the brand itself.

Most luxury marks (read Japanese and American ones) use alpha-numeric because they want to copy BMW and Mercedes. Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, and Maserati use names, even Porsche uses names aside form the 911 which has been around nearly 40 years. Jaguar uses XK because they have been doing that since 1949. I don't like how similar Acura and Lincoln names are, and Cadillac is getting close to them. I think real names are more unique.


I agree with those that say Escalade should not be on lambda. I don't like that it is basically a Tahoe, but it is a good business move as long as people are willing to pay for it. I think the GMT900 SUVs need a big rethink though, much like Ford did with the Explorer. There will have to be downsizing and/or weight loss and a change in powertrains for 2015.