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Industry News: New Bill To Offer A Billion Dollar Prize To 100 MPG Vehicle


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#21

Camino LS6

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

Think it is time for the GOV to set a standard for connections and require all gas stations to have a pump for Propane, Pump for Naural Gas on top of having pumps for BIO-Fuel. This will then drive competition and reduce the oil need and price.


An infinitely more logical approach.

And while they are at it, they should remove the roadblocks to simple conversions to these alt fuels. EPA regs hold what could be a great industry back in this regard. Very stupid.
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#22

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

100 mpg city? 100 mpg highway? 100 mpg combined?

And why no diesels or electrics? Why not use every available bit of technology there is out there? Diesel is the more efficient fuel per gallon. If they're worried about the NOx, they have urea filters for that.

GM can get a Buick Lacrosse to go 36mpg highway using very mild electric boost. The Cruze Eco got me 51mpg. A Cruze Eco 1.4CDi with eAssist would likely put them very close to that 100mpg goal (highway). A 1 liter Volt diesel or HCCI Gasser would put them well over the top. HCCI would work very well in the Volt because the HCCI mode has a rather narrow rpm band it can operate in, but the Volt generator doesn't care as long as it is getting the RPMs it needs constantly.

Limiting this contest to gasoline only vehicles is dumb dumb dumb.
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#23

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

The whole notion is stupid - just the half-assed product of the inferior minds we send to congress.
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#24

loki

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:18 AM

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html
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#25

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:06 AM

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Well, it was 13 years ago. I remember buying gas for $1.07 in late '98/early '99 and thinking it was something of nirvana. Unfortunately, the reality of 1999 seems to have been distorted in way too many ways to get to 2012 that its hard to put it on a baseline with today's reality.
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#26

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:37 AM

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.
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#27

Camino LS6

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:40 AM


Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.


Thus the need to replace it.
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#28

Z-06

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:43 AM


Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.


What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?
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#29

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:50 AM



Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.


What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<cynical-realist>
Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.
</cynical-realist>

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar, 07 February 2012 - 07:53 AM.

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#30

Camino LS6

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:29 AM




Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.


What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<cynical-realist>
Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.
</cynical-realist>


And even more reasons to replace it.
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#31

Z-06

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:19 AM




Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?
heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.
http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html


Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.


What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<shortsighted person>
Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.
</shortsighted person>


Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.
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#32

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:22 AM


<cynical-skeptic>
Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.
</cynical-skeptic>


Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.

Oil companies have vast financial and political resources... I just can't see them allowing something to grow that threatens their existence.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar, 07 February 2012 - 10:24 AM.

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#33

Z-06

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:37 AM



<cynical-skeptic>
Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.
</cynical-skeptic>


Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.

Oil companies have vast financial and political resources... I just can't see them allowing something to grow that threatens their existence.


Allowing something not to grow is mutually exclusive to something will grow.

Brazil already has something that is competing with oil industry.
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#34

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

From 1983 to 1987 I worked for a chain call Pizza Haven here in the Seattle Area as a shirft manager in charge of deliveries. We had Chevy full size truck that had Hot Propane powered box's in the bed and the tank while huge as it filled the rest of the bed was also used to power the propane v8 engines.

Those trucks were clean and really moved. I never had a problem driving them an it was easy to just drive up to a gass station and have them fill up the big tank.

We need this option in vehicles but instead of having to open a trunk or get into the bed of a truck, should have the propane fill noze right where the gas tank filler is usually kept.

I fail to see why they could not do this and get clean burning propane tanked auto's on the street now.
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#35

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

Don't know what they use now, but when I lived in the Florida Keys n the '80s the local sherriff's department had a fleet of propane powered Dodge Diplomats. IIRC, they used propane in case fuel supplies from the mainland were cut due to hurricanes..
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#36

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:11 PM

moltar, prices would reach that level again if the inflation of the last ~100 years was undone. a gallon of "gas" in the 1920's is the "same" as now(while being refined more) ...*include rant about commodity prices and our dollar doesn't function as a true commodity* even with taxes, gas is basically a silver dime per gallon. how's that for cheap?
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#37

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

moltar, prices would reach that level again if the inflation of the last ~100 years was undone. a gallon of "gas" in the 1920's is the "same" as now(while being refined more) ...*include rant about commodity prices and our dollar doesn't function as a true commodity* even with taxes, gas is basically a silver dime per gallon. how's that for cheap?

Yes, I could see that happening...in a fantasy world. Not going to happen in the real world.
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#38

loki

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

Yes, I could see that happening...in a fantasy world. Not going to happen in the real world.

yes, subjectively it's not going to happen, but objectively it already has. the law just needs to change to allow currency competition.
so which is fantasy and which is reality? the law, or the price of gas vs other commodities.
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