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Industry News: Senate Passes Manditory Black Boxes In Vehicles By 2015, House Expected To Follow


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#21

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:03 PM


No they are not!

Airliners are public transportation, automobiles are private.

I can't believe that you'd actually support this travesty, Cubitar.


I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on this. Automobiles may be private, but they are driven on public roads for which you need a registration, license plate, driver's license, etc for. I would not consider aircraft to be public...they are privately owned (by people or corporations) but their travel is regulated.


Aircrafts may be privately owned but the single difference is that the owner company is in a business to throughfare of passengers using that equipment for business purposes. Hence there is a necessity to understand what may have gone wrong in the accident to ascertain whether it was or not company's fault. Do Individuals have to go through the same too? Do you use your Grand Cherokee for taking people from Mesa to Phoenix and take $50 for the trip?

Another government arm can easily be created just like TSA to monitor these blackboxes. Last time I saw believers of both sides on this forum were against TSA.
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#22

dfelt

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:07 PM

And the 'tin hats' were murmuring when the whole red light camera thing was pitched as purely safety oriented, too.
Since then we've learned that municipalities allowed private companies to rule technicalities at the red light camera intersections irregardless of accepted safety protocols, merely to maximize revenue.

Camino- you're dead right: this is another chip off the personal freedom block. :nono:


This is exactly why I posted what I did. Another Freedom taken away. Wonder how long before they come up with laws that outlaw driving older auto's just so they can track you.
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#23

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

Lots of paranoia flying around in this thread.
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#24

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

Lots of paranoia flying around in this thread.


Care to justify your stance please?
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#25

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:13 PM


Lots of paranoia flying around in this thread.


Care to justify your stance please?

It's obvious. A lot of irrational paranoia about how such a technology will be used.
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#26

dfelt

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:14 PM

Lots of paranoia flying around in this thread.


How can you call this Paranoia. A box that records your everything that ges on in the car and then a crazy bitch or buch who gets a lawyer and then uses this to try and make a point or insurance companies who say drive our way or we charge you ten times the rate or refuse to insure you, etc. The list is long but this is not paranoia especially when both gov and companies have always proved to use things to increase their profits or call it public safety but in reality all about control.
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#27

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:19 PM

It is not obvious to others.

Does it specifically say what technology in what magnitude will be used? No
Does it say how will it effect in reducing the accidents? No
Does it say other data wll be NOT collected in this effort? No

There are many others to add. When other side is bringing valid arguments and when you make points like, "Reality is complex," "Paranoia Flying" it is obvious what is missing.

May be similar to tin foil hats, people need lubed condoms to just take what government shoves in.
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#28

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

Behind every government law are small interest groups and masses of disgruntled citizens.
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#29

yougojay

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

Take a chill pill people - just unplug the darn thing
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#30

Camino LS6

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:55 PM

Take a chill pill people - just unplug the darn thing


Guaranteed that that will not be an option.

And Cubitar, it isn't paranoia when past practices clearly indicate a real threat.
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#31

Camino LS6

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:58 PM

Just wait until they legislate real-time telemetry and automatic enforcement into this!

This kind of crap needs to be squashed.
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#32

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

Take a chill pill people - just unplug the darn thing


Yeah that captain obvious option will be available.
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#33

yougojay

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

Posted Imageyougojay, on , said:

Take a chill pill people - just unplug the darn thing

Guaranteed that that will not be an option.


Cut the friggin' wires! Yank it out! You guys are always modifying BRAND NEW Cars, just get rid of the thing!!
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#34

Camino LS6

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:13 PM

Removing it will very likely be a federal crime.
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#35

yougojay

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

Just wait until they legislate real-time telemetry and automatic enforcement into this!

This kind of crap needs to be squashed.



The technology is out now, and there is no going back. It's too late, we're all being watched, counted...make it easy on yourself, just UNPLUG it...!
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#36

Camino LS6

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:18 PM


Just wait until they legislate real-time telemetry and automatic enforcement into this!

This kind of crap needs to be squashed.



The technology is out now, and there is no going back. It's too late, we're all being watched, counted...make it easy on yourself, just UNPLUG it...!


That's no solution at all, preventing the regulation in the first place is.
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#37

balthazar

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:11 PM

^ Yea- guaranteed that if it's a federal mandate, defeating it will be a federal offense.
Odometer fraud/ title fraud/ grand theft are all 3 minimal 3rd degree felony charges in FL, for example.
They just pile on & pile on the charges and drown you.
The slimebags in DC pedal it as 'helping you' and shove it thru, along with the penalties & charges, likewise to 'help you'.

I need to find a clean '64 Cat coupe like NOW and squirrel it away for the ever-creeping Freedom Pinch.
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#38

fullmoon97

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:24 PM

ok i think this is harmless. and you have to understand i am against things like SOPA and what ever the new one is called. but what you guys are talking about is down right unconstitutional. without any type of warning. (not a warning given to us but a warning given to them. like something unlawful being discussed in a car or whatnot.) they cant do anything. even the patriot act needed something to start the surveillance. things like searching bomb, bus, and things like that. to actually start the tapping. what this will do is if you are pulled over for speeding and you take it to court they will refer to the black box. i DONT think that this will record audio within the car maybe outgoing calls made with the built in phones the cars have now but even then they would need a probable cause. its too small of a unit to record the massive amounts of data that audio would take up. well if you wanted quality audio that you could understand. most likely it will be information such as speed, tire pressure, different ratios. idk but things that the cops (NOT THE GOVERNMENT) can use to solve crimes.

dont believe me that its too small? this is the size of the unit. the hard drives that are that big can only hold a couple of gigs of audio. if you want car info in with that its just too small.

http://www.blogcdn.c...ack-box-opt.jpg

Edited by fullmoon97, 15 May 2012 - 06:32 PM.

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#39

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:29 PM


Posted Imageyougojay, on , said:

Take a chill pill people - just unplug the darn thing

Guaranteed that that will not be an option.


Cut the friggin' wires! Yank it out! You guys are always modifying BRAND NEW Cars, just get rid of the thing!!

It would probably void the warranty.
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#40

Z-06

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

ok i think this is harmless. and you have to understand i am against things like SOPA and what ever the new one is called. but what you guys are talking about is down right unconstitutional. without any type of warning. (not a warning given to us but a warning given to them. like something unlawful being discussed in a car or whatnot.) they cant do anything. even the patriot act needed something to start the surveillance. things like searching bomb, bus, and things like that. to actually start the tapping. what this will do is if you are pulled over for speeding and you take it to court they will refer to the black box. i DONT think that this will record audio within the car maybe outgoing calls made with the built in phones the cars have now but even then they would need a probable cause. its too small of a unit to record the massive amounts of data that audio would take up. well if you wanted quality audio that you could understand. most likely it will be information such as speed, tire pressure, different ratios. idk but things that the cops (NOT THE GOVERNMENT) can use to solve crimes.

dont believe me that its too small? this is the size of the unit. the hard drives that are that big can only hold a couple of gigs of audio. if you want car info in with that its just too small.

http://www.blogcdn.c...ack-box-opt.jpg


First of even 2 gigs is enough for a lot of data points from a data acquisition system. A micro SD card can hold 16 GB of data, enough to be put in that blackbox. We had collected 2 years of data on a 1 gig drive for 16 sensors providing binary information. No one is talking about recording audio. That disk space is enough for speed, mileage, location if GPS capable, etc readings. As much as I hate conspiracy theories, this act proves another intrusive method like SOPA to curb people. On Star was used without any consent or Patriot Act for surveillance of GM vehicles, so a gray and vague law like this is enough of a fuel to demand more of such surveillance.

Lawmakers talk about safety, but the greatest need to improve safety on road is education. Engineering solutions are last bastions. But then again educating people will be against profits for insurance industry, GPS makers and data loggers. Insurance providers give radar detector to cops, but how serious are they to improve driver's education and pump money into that system? Yeah we know the answer. If lawmakers guarantee that these devices will 100% guarantee no accidents, then intrusive methods for safety of citizens will be must. But till then preventing accidents should be a priority than "learning" from accidents.

I think the Congress possibly senses Arab Spring like event to be happening in this country given Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street, and it is trying to be proactive; the low Congress' approval rating and amount of distrust in the country's legal system will be matter of time for such an event, chaos in world's premier democracy and free country will be oxymoronic.
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