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ATS Results are in and They are Good Very Good!

First Test from Autoweek

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#1

hyperv6

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:01 PM

Autoweek has published the first ATS full test and from what they find they feel it is world class and has what it takes to compete.

I have always found Autoweeks reviews generally the most balanced and fair in the media market [not counting those here]. They have tested all three engines in the RWD model and they love the car. In all areas it is either best in class or as good. Here are some of the highlights.

Interior is A4 matches build quality and is better than the # series.

The ATS is lightest in class by 113 pounds and the weight loss is not due to anything that will contribute to noise or harshness. In other words Cadillac did not take the easy way out.

Brakes best in class.

Ride Handling and Balanced are among the best in class magnetic shocks or not.

V6 strong meatiiest and smooth

2.0 Turbo is strong linear quiet NHV

2.5 has more NHV than the 2.0 Trubo but is better than the C class, Not rough and is a good honest not frilly car. The 2.5 might be the best bargin of the bunch.

V series almost certain to not be a V8.

Cadillac is not working on more new models now than at any point in their history. Engineers are no longer marginalized.

Sounds as if the coupe is still game on.

Suspension will use same settings world wide.

AWD was not tested but will be available in August.

6 speed tranny was good and only had a small hic up but they thought the less gears than the others made it less busy. Manual shifter was not the best but good enough to be in the mix.

The harshest words were for the thick A pillars and mirrors for blind spots but they said that is just part of todays cars and really made just a passing comment.

The ATS is light agile and fun and Cadillac has met their objectives.

So all those who had little faith you can rest at ease and know that the CTS and Camaro look to have good futures based on this first Alpha.
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#2

A Horse With No Name

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

Sounds like some of the same majic I found when I drove the Verano is present in the Caddy as well.

Glad they liked the brakes, as I felt that was really a strong point again of the Verano also.

GM seems to be doing just kick A$$ quality control and design work on interiors lately...I love how well assembled modern GM cars are on the inside. I'm especially grateful to see a quality automotive publication point this out...for awhile, I thought it was just me.

Now if GM can just push this same magic into the next Camaro, we may see another GM car in my driveway. GLAD TO SEE GM doing this well with their product....
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#3

hyperv6

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:25 PM

This is an example of what Bob Lutz did at GM. He cut the BS out and told the engineers and MFG to built the cars the way they need to be built and not wait for someone to tell them to do it that way. In the past no one was given the power to fix things unless told.

GM has had the people to build cars like this but they were never told to do it and would get in trouble if they made changes on their own. Mark has carried this on and now has the funding to do more. The only thing GM is hurting on yet is time. It takes time and man power to get product out and even working as hard as they are it will take some more time to see all the changes.

I like how they stated that Cadillac is now working on more models than at any point in their history. If they do as they did with the ATS we may see an amazing change with Cadillac in the public eye.
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#4

hyperv6

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

I forgot the best line in the story.

Page 36 first paragraph.

"Measured by "light, Nimble, fun" and balance and inherent goodness, the ATS belongs in the same sentence as the BMW 3 series.
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#5

ZL-1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:06 AM

Wasn't the issue with the coupe all about positioning, i.e. as an ATS Coupe, a CTS Coupe or someting in the middle (like the Mercedes CLK was before it transformed into the E-Class Coupe)?

The rest of the news is great news; GM/Cadillac needs to shout out really loud that the ATS has arrived (and it absolutely has to offer a diesel engine for Europe).
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#6

hyperv6

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:47 AM

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

The marketing guy from Cadillac stated that Cadillac was really hurting in this segment. He also stated what I have said for a long time when many pissed and moaned for a flagship. He stated that all these luxury lines were built from the bottom up and in the case of BMW the 3 series built todays BMW to be what it is. You have to earn new and younger owners with the the entry level cars and let them move up. This has been what I have said for as long time. People may give you a try at $40K but not at $100K.
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#7

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:51 AM

I like the philosophy of winning buyers at the lower level, it makes a lot of sense....and then moving them up....
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#8

regfootball

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:36 AM

agree. there is no point to doing a 90k cadillac that few will buy unless people are clamoring for it. there is pent up demand for the DTS/XTS, that will sell also.

I think the next 10 years the German's elaborate top end models will get clipped....the world economy and climate folks will make sure to that. Why do you think BMW and merc are investing more in front drive shitboxes?
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#9

ZL-1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:23 AM

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

So, that's 2 coupes: ATS and NG-CTS? Interesting!
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#10

balthazar

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:02 AM

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.
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#11

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:14 AM

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.


But would the buyer of the 7-series make that purchase without knowing someone who had a good experience with a 3 or 5 series? I think you may be right about the moving-up theory not really working, at least now how you stated, but I do think a brand can better sell at a price point if they've built a good reputation at a lower but adjacent price point already. For example, a company that's built a good reputation selling $30-40k cars can probably somewhat easily sell a new product (or even a higher optioned product) in the $40-50k range, but they won't do nearly as well to go from selling $30-40k cars to offering a $50-60k car. Even tougher if they tried to jump to $60-70k. Big jumps don't generally work.
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#12

regfootball

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

ATS first.

Then, CTS.

then the stage is set for the flagship.
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#13

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:32 AM

Sweet, so glad to hear the ATS is world class like we wanted and hoped for.
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#14

hyperv6

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:05 PM

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

So, that's 2 coupes: ATS and NG-CTS? Interesting!


I said the ATS coupe may appear once the CTS goes away for a while. Who knows if it will return or even when. None have been seen in testing yet.

The first Alpha coupe I expect will be the Camaro.

I expect the ATS V6 may dip into the low 14's high 13's in the 1/4 mile and the Turbo will be very similar. To compare the much heavier Camaro with the same 3.6 will do 14.3 with the manual. I would assume the ATS should better that even with the Auto.

Edited by hyperv6, 20 July 2012 - 03:05 PM.

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#15

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

The new ATS around the world driving video was pretty cool..
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#16

hyperv6

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.


You can explain around it but the modern BMW line was built on the back of the 3 Series and as the owner get older and more money they moved to the 5 and 7 Series. The history from the 70's up shows the path of growth.

BMW must have retains a good number of people as they are not selling less cars each year and have been keeping profitiable.

When you are poor you buy a 3 series and when you finally make it you buy a 5, 7 or even something better.

We also have seen Cadillac try to sell the big dollar car with no love for the line and we know where that went. You have to earn the public trust and then you can enhance your image. Once you do that then it opens the door for a flagship. If you can make a $40,000 car worth a damn then why should someone trust you with $80-100L?

Either way GM is doing it the right way and has the cart behind the horse for once.
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#17

dfelt

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:10 PM


The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.


You can explain around it but the modern BMW line was built on the back of the 3 Series and as the owner get older and more money they moved to the 5 and 7 Series. The history from the 70's up shows the path of growth.

BMW must have retains a good number of people as they are not selling less cars each year and have been keeping profitiable.

When you are poor you buy a 3 series and when you finally make it you buy a 5, 7 or even something better.

We also have seen Cadillac try to sell the big dollar car with no love for the line and we know where that went. You have to earn the public trust and then you can enhance your image. Once you do that then it opens the door for a flagship. If you can make a $40,000 car worth a damn then why should someone trust you with $80-100L?

Either way GM is doing it the right way and has the cart behind the horse for once.


+1 I totally agree! :yes:
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#18

A Horse With No Name

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:09 PM

I just wish I were poor enough for a new BMW 3 series....

Cause then I could go buy a CTS!
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#19

hyperv6

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:38 PM

We all need to keep in mind that we are talking in terms of the volume luxury market. This is where people often buy at the low end and work their way up as they progress in life.

Now this used to apply to other classes of cars but no longer. Say in the value brands like Chevy people tend to buy for several reason. The type of car that fits them the best and the one they can best afford. At Chevy you don't expect all buyers to start at a Sonic and move to a Camaro.

Now in the Luxury class some start off at the low end say at BMW like a 3 Series and they move up as they increase income. The 3-5-7 are all sedans with an odd mix of coupes and generally offer just more of the same as you move up and increases in power and luxury.

So the build from the bottom up is what works in this class but I would not ever expect or want to see Chevy do similar. Chevy needs to be all things to all people and present it at a good value.

This is where Buick is stuck. The room between Chevy and Cadillac is not great and it leaves Buick little room to operate. As Cadillac moves up the scale with their new models it will give Buick more room to operate. But It concerns me that cars like the Impala LTZ will be $40,000. This steps on the toes of the Lacrosse that is not ready to move up. almost think Buick needs to look to create a new nich for themselves and offer cars that sets them better appart from a high end Chevy and a lower Cadillac. If their price is similar they need to make things available you can not get on any Chevy.

Until there is a bigger gap for Buick it will be difficult for them. This is why vehicles like the Enclave do so well as they are not like anything Cadillac offers and it is much nicer than anything Chevy sells.

Times and markets are just much more complex than the Sloan era.

Either way Cadillac is doing it right.
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#20

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:41 PM

I dunno if I had a 328, I would much rather move up to an M3 than the less nimble luxury cars.
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