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ATS Results are in and They are Good Very Good!

First Test from Autoweek

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#41

A Horse With No Name

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

I agree reg, the Altima is boring....

And I think the Malibu is going to do okay, I am with you on this as well, reg...
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#42

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:42 PM

To Reg's point on sales, they may sell a lot of Malibus, but I suspect 40% of them will be to rental companies, while the Fusion is going to have people paying sticker. Impala sales will drop considerably from where they are now, but that is a good thing, because I don't think they sold a retail Impala in the past 4 years. I think this new Impala will price around $28k base and ride up to near $40k. I think it will sell more in the 60,000 per year realm, and take some sales from the LaCrosse. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Impala starts as high as $29,875.
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#43

regfootball

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

believe or not, the Impala was in many chevy stores selling more Impalas at retail than Malibus. The older customers liked the extra headroom and cabin space and more windows that the Malibu did not have. If anything, as much as the Impala has been fleet, the Malibu was too.

Current Fusion has been propped up since the last redo with cheap leases and tons of incentives. It became the defacto cheap large car for Ford and much of the domestic market. Ford whored them out. Ford is out for profit now on the new model. And rightfully so. Taurus sales may even go up a little in the meantime.

Most new Impalas should come in close to the basic LaCrosse in price. GM has priced the Malibu so in some trims with deals it will be closer to 20k than 25k. And it will be the ad leader for leases. Impalas have never leased well as late, so if anything the Malibu should do the bulk of the lease volume for Chevy.

What really is crazy is that Chrysler moves so many of the Avenger and 200's now. Hopefully the Malibu can get back some of those customers.

Chevy has it rolling now so when the SS sedan comes out, it's just a low volume car, a halo car, just to get PR and satisfy the whipping shitties crowd. Which is a tiny subset of the car public. It will cap Chevy's line perfectly.

Edited by regfootball, 21 July 2012 - 10:08 PM.

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#44

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:10 PM

200 is a good redesign...I actually like what they did.

Impala is actually a great car for what it is....for mom and op and three kids on their way to church or a basketball game in Kansas, it is one hell of a car.

...and even if they are going cheap, I still really like what Ford did with the fusion. Doubt I'll ever own one, though.
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#45

regfootball

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:57 PM

i say this after having 5 fords and over 300k miles now, all pretty much trouble free.....

I do think there is a bit more zest in the GM stuff. More with a little fun and emotion.

that said, the new Fusion and obviously the focus are pretty cool. but there is a stale property that is present in most fords.

And Ford has pretty much abandoned the past. Not really a bad thing. But GM cars, you can photo a 13 Malibu and something from just about any GM generation and that flavor still is there. At least more so.

In fact, what is appealing to me about the 13 Malibu...although I liked the 08-12 exterior a lot, the 13 Malibu would look just fine in the company of cars like say, the early 2000 Bonnevilles and so on.

that's not really a knock as much as it is a complement that they could bring a GM look forward many years later.
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#46

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:11 AM


I am far from writing the Malibu off yet as we have yet to see anything but the Eco yet tested. I did read a review on the LTZ and they seem to like the many changes it brings in performance and trim inside and out. Bigger wheels, more power, better interior and no battery to lug around with an under powered 4.


Malibu Eco is not cheap, some of the hybrids are similar in price, and the base Altima has better mileage anyway if you want to live with that CVT, which most of these buyers won't know what that is anyway, they will just read the mpg label. The Malibu LTZ with a 2.0T may solve some problems of the Malibu Eco, but the LTZ will likely top $30k and will not be a lot of volume. The base Malibu and Eco are the trims that produce volume. I really like the new Fusion, still like the Optima and Sonata, and the new Altima has a rather nice interior. Plus the Accord gets redone soon too, and despite them being boring or maybe not even that good, people still buy Camrys and Accords on name alone. GM undershot on the Malibu.

Back to the ATS, I don't think they undershot on it, from early reports it seems they at least took most of the necessary steps. But this is Mercedes engineering and safety, Audi interiors, and BMW braking/steering/handling they are going after. Not to mention the reputation of those 3 brands. I think Cadillac can get in the game, but I don't know if they have the big guns to prevail here.



The average price of a car is $30K now and most midsized cars today of any value will all top $30K it top trim. Hence that is why we have a Cruze and Sonic etc.

They did not uder shoot as the ATS has proven to have best inclass in most areas. For once GM did not try to match BMW or Benz. Again you need to do a little homework on just what is really going on inside GM today and understand the changes that are now in place. Lutz changed many things in GM and how many of the engineers and designers are no longer restricted to do as they are told. In other words if it need done then do it and don't wait to be told to do it. The ATS is the first full car to show this openess to enabled engineering. .
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#47

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 04:29 PM

They did not uder shoot as the ATS has proven to have best inclass in most areas. For once GM did not try to match BMW or Benz. Again you need to do a little homework on just what is really going on inside GM today and understand the changes that are now in place. Lutz changed many things in GM and how many of the engineers and designers are no longer restricted to do as they are told. In other words if it need done then do it and don't wait to be told to do it. The ATS is the first full car to show this openess to enabled engineering. .

What has the ATS proved, they haven't even sold one of them yet. BMW over the past 30 years has proved the 3-series is the best car in that class. They did a lot of things right with the ATS, but Lexus also had 2 tries with the IS, and aimed for the correct size, weight, horsepower, etc, and had a shelf full of JD Power awards saying how they build the most reliable car, and they failed. The ATS may be good, I'd like to drive one to find out, but the ATS doesn't have the badge of BMW or Mercedes. If you buy an ATS you still have to justify why you didn't buy a BMW or Benz instead.
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#48

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

The IS had all that but one key ingredient missing..... passion. Say what you will about the ATS, it's not generic and there is no mistaking who makes it.
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#49

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:16 PM

Well, if Cadillac builds this car as a lease car, it will match Benz and BMW. If it builds it as a car to purchase, it will match Cadillac. I would rather purchase a car than lease it, because after the free maintenance plan is overwith, which car would you rather pay to keep on the road?
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#50

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:47 PM

The Cadillac ...much better car to keep than the Lexus or BMW or Benz...Benz runs forever, but is pricey to maintain.

Cadillac FTW!
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#51

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:48 PM


They did not uder shoot as the ATS has proven to have best inclass in most areas. For once GM did not try to match BMW or Benz. Again you need to do a little homework on just what is really going on inside GM today and understand the changes that are now in place. Lutz changed many things in GM and how many of the engineers and designers are no longer restricted to do as they are told. In other words if it need done then do it and don't wait to be told to do it. The ATS is the first full car to show this openess to enabled engineering. .

What has the ATS proved, they haven't even sold one of them yet. BMW over the past 30 years has proved the 3-series is the best car in that class. They did a lot of things right with the ATS, but Lexus also had 2 tries with the IS, and aimed for the correct size, weight, horsepower, etc, and had a shelf full of JD Power awards saying how they build the most reliable car, and they failed. The ATS may be good, I'd like to drive one to find out, but the ATS doesn't have the badge of BMW or Mercedes. If you buy an ATS you still have to justify why you didn't buy a BMW or Benz instead.


Ok then lets just shut Cadillac down and just sell Chevy Sonic's! Why bother if GM is doomed to fail as you clearly point out.

The first step in this deal is to build a car that is as good or better in all areas. To compete it takes product and great product. So far from what it looks the press has declared Cadillac as being as good or better in most areas with the ATS.

Second you need to do a hell of a lot of good marketing. Once you have great product you need to get the message out and Sell, Sell, Sell. Image has to be built and earned as you can not just sit there and wait for it to happen.

Third you need to follow it up with more great product that is better in most areas as the cars it needs to compete in. This reinforces that you are real and enhances the image more.

Finally you need to keep this up for years as a car companies image is not built in one year on one model. It take time to earn trust and for people to learn that you are the real deal. BMW was not built on the first 5 year of the 318. It took time and marketing that centered on Freude am Fahren, The Ultimate Driving Machine. This was one of the most succsessful marketing campains. Add to that the false image that the Germans build anything better stero type and you have a winning formula that built itself up over the years to what we have now.

No one said rebuilding Cadillac would be cheap, easy or happen in just a few years. This battle will be taken one model at a time and then time to repair the damaged history of the many wasted years. It can be done as other have done it. None of them did it overnight and not all of them made it. As of now GM is doing it right and now it is time for them to just stick to this and keep moving the ball forward.

As for Lexus that is a whole different story. Most Asian MFG do not have an idea of what many customers want and they have little heritage to draw from. They can build a better V twin but it is still not a Harley. They can build a better mid engine sports car and it is still not a Ferrari. Lexus lost their way as they were a well built car but they had no soul. Then Toyota started to take short cuts and fall to the rebadged habits that hurt Cadillac and Lincoln. They have learned from this and will now also start to build better products. BUt they lack two things Cadillac can sell.

Cadillac has many years of glory heritage they can use.

Cadillac also has the image of being an American car. While this has hurt in the past there is a growing demand for things to be American again. This is not lost on the automakers as so many Asian comanies are now trying to show that they have as much content as the American MFG cars do. They want to make you think Hyundai is a Georgia car and Honda is an Ohio car. Buy American scares them. If you note even the fast food places are into this now with Wendys promoting they use North American Beef. This movment is growing and Ford and GM will use it to their advantage.

Lets face it we only have one true fully American owned luxury car company anymore.

So if you think this is a done deal with just the ATS you again need to learn more about what is going on at GM and how things really work in the real world. The ATS is proof that GM can do it and the CTS will confirm it once it is here. The next challange is the marking and the ATS marketing looks good so far. I think as time goes on this will be fun to watch after watching the years of decline.
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#52

hyperv6

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:56 PM

Well, if Cadillac builds this car as a lease car, it will match Benz and BMW. If it builds it as a car to purchase, it will match Cadillac. I would rather purchase a car than lease it, because after the free maintenance plan is overwith, which car would you rather pay to keep on the road?


The problem with no leases is that the Luxury segment lives on them. Lets face it if you sold cars to only people who really can afford them it would cut sales in half. Many of these people want to enhance their image with the image of a car that says you made it. The trouble is many of them have not yet made it or ever will.

These are the same people who buy the McMansion with only enough furniture to fill hald of it. They also lack curtains or blinds on those custom made widows that they can not afford. But they all have a Leased BMW in the drive and a Large SUV.

We have to understand we live in a society where everyone wants to be or look like a Millionaire but they want to all shop at Walmart. Sorry it just does not work that way.

So while I too would love to see leases go away they are here to stay as a profit sale is a profit sale and they are too much a part of the luxury segment anymore.

Besides they all are expensive to keep on the road anymore.
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#53

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

hmmm... not my point, hyper.
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#54

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

I still find the ATS to be a bit bland looking, it just doesn't scream performance, luxury or expensive when I look at it. Maybe it is all photos with red cars that make it look cheap, I don't know. They have a lot of the right ideas as far as size, weight, a 320 hp V6, etc. There are a lot of things to like about the ATS, but even if it is as good as the Germans, and they have good marketing, most will still buy a German car because of image alone. They have a big hill to climb, especially with the CTS when they move it up the price ladder. I just fear that the ATS will be a solid B+ effort, and a B+ effort works in a segment with few players like minivan, or against dated cars like Corolla and Civic, but Cadillac needs and A++ when going against the car that dominated a segment for 30 years.
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#55

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:35 PM

I still find the ATS to be a bit bland looking, it just doesn't scream performance, luxury or expensive when I look at it. Maybe it is all photos with red cars that make it look cheap, I don't know. They have a lot of the right ideas as far as size, weight, a 320 hp V6, etc. There are a lot of things to like about the ATS, but even if it is as good as the Germans, and they have good marketing, most will still buy a German car because of image alone. They have a big hill to climb, especially with the CTS when they move it up the price ladder. I just fear that the ATS will be a solid B+ effort, and a B+ effort works in a segment with few players like minivan, or against dated cars like Corolla and Civic, but Cadillac needs and A++ when going against the car that dominated a segment for 30 years.


For one this sound like you have not seen the car in person yet so that accounts for a lot.

Second there is a hill to climb but it not one they can't climb.

Third the ATS may not be a A+ but it is a good solid A with the review. Cadillac just needs A efforts to make their point. The fact is no one can do a A++ in this segment as no one could afford the car. Even BMW and Benz have been B+ at best with many of their new models. How often anymore has Jeremy Clarkson even stated a list of hates on his beloved Benz.

In my book A beats B+.
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#56

regfootball

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

Catera>CTS1>CTS2>ATS, 4 generations now of a Caddy that is not a floater, it's about what, 15 years now? Cadillac has had a bunch of cars now that have not been bad drivers, closer to 20 years if you include the 92 STS.

The ATS will represent a product that is indeed competitive with the douchebag mobiles from a driving standpoint without apology.

The marketing and image part, Cadillac is really trying not to tap into the douchebag bunch. But still they want luxo shoppers as well as their own Cadillac and GM fans. ATS seems to walk that line nicely so far. The XTS is not such a car.

Leasing is important for numbers and many lux buyers prefer to lease. The real benefit of leasing is the steady flow of people trading in and re-buying. The dealer can then make dough on the used and a new one instead of people hanging on to the car forever. Lightly used cars are a great entry point into the brand for a lot of younger or first time buyers. Cadillac needs to do that to be financially happy like the BMW's.

Edited by regfootball, 22 July 2012 - 08:44 PM.

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#57

regfootball

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:14 PM

http://www.insidelin...-full-test.html


http://www.motortren...ats_first_test/


http://www.caranddri...st-drive-review


http://www.roadandtr...13-cadillac-ats


Edited by regfootball, 22 July 2012 - 10:17 PM.

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#58

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:14 PM

Maybe it is all photos with red cars that make it look cheap, I don't know.

Yes, quite; the color red makes anything look cheap. Don't forget the black of the tires, too!

>>"We gazed upon the Cadillac ATS in person, with the words “It’s gorgeous” on the tip of our tongue. It looks quite a lot like the macho CTS sedan, only smaller, and with an overall image that feels simply more elegant. With elements like the high, rising beltline combined with an arching roof and sweeping lighting features, it definitely shares a lot of the same DNA as other Cadillacs, but with a personality all its own: the smart, athletic younger sibling with a promising future ahead of it."<<
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#59

regfootball

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

http://www.autoblog....e-review-video/

Autoblog was jerks.....
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#60

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

http://www.autoblog....e-review-video/

Autoblog was jerks.....


"The naturally aspirated four-cylinder idles smoothly enough, though that's thanks largely to some cleverness in the engine mounts."
no... it totally has nothing to do the fact that it is a brand new engine that was designed with NHV control in mind...

"We fully expected the turbo four-cylinder to be the sweet spot in the ATS line, and while it feels properly quick, the engine still lacks the buttery refinement of offerings from Audi"
... uh... has the dude actually driven a 2.0T Audi? Fun engines, sure, but I don't dare call them "buttery"

"On the street, Sport Mode simply devolves into a button to make the transmission worse. The overly sensitive programming will kick down a gear and hold it on mild freeway onramps, sticking the transmission in third or fourth gear and keeping it there long enough for us to wonder if we've broken something. In the end, it does exactly what shift logic shouldn't do: make the driver aware of the transmission."
.... you mean that when you drive normally in sport mode, you don't like the way the car is performing? My CTS had this sport mode... it was meant solely for hard driving situations. Put it in sport mode and drive it like you stole it, otherwise, let the transmission stay in normal mode.
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