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Impala - 40 thou????????


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#21

regfootball

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

the center is uncomfortable.....


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#22

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

Government regulations have a way of doing that.

 

That may be why they are now wanting to tell us what to eat and how much. They want to make sure we fit in the little cars they have forced on us LOL!

 

Last I looked, the Expedition XL and Suburban were still in production. Don't blame the government for GM's miss-handling of platforms... 


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#23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

Just looked over a base LS light blue 2014 Impala for a good 20 min. I must say that it is a nice car but Chevy has once again aimed really low with this trim level. Plastic wheels. No visible exhaust out back. Black exterior rear view mirrors, no leather steering wheel, no rear air vents, 4 cylinder only. It's as if this trim level was aimed directly at fleets, which is what I thought GM was avoiding. To get these items one must move up to the 30k LT trim where most every other competitors have a std V6.

 

The mileage is also a let down. 21/31 for the enhanced new 2.5. 18/28 for the V6 and 25/35 for the eAssist. Notice these figures are lower than the heavier LaCrosse for the eAssist setup, with the V6 coming in one less on both counts compared to most online sources and a whopping 3 less than the Malibu with the 2.5 despite only a 150 LB gain in weight. I'm very curious why the lower than expected numbers for this car.


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#24

hyperv6

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

Government regulations have a way of doing that.

 

That may be why they are now wanting to tell us what to eat and how much. They want to make sure we fit in the little cars they have forced on us LOL!

 

Last I looked, the Expedition XL and Suburban were still in production. Don't blame the government for GM's miss-handling of platforms... 

 

Yes like they sell a ton of those like they used too.

 

You know as well as I do that we are in transition of old GM and new GM and the new GM has done pretty well with what they were given to work with till they can fix it all.

 

Now visit me back on this in 2025 and just see how big you cars and half ton trucks are. You are one of those around here that it smart enough to  know where this is all going.


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#25

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

Is that the government speaking or the market speaking? Lots of people don't even want large cars anymore no matter how efficient they are. My friend with the Scion TC thinks the Camry is a "boat".  Albert won't go bigger than a CR-V and even refuses to drive a 'Nox.  Lots of people moved from Suburbans to Acadias/Traverses simply for drivability reasons... and remember, if you did that 10 years ago you ended up in an Aztek or TrailBlazer... neither of which have the utility that the Lambdas do today.

 

It's just the market shifting on its own here. 


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#26

hyperv6

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

Is that the government speaking or the market speaking? Lots of people don't even want large cars anymore no matter how efficient they are. My friend with the Scion TC thinks the Camry is a "boat".  Albert won't go bigger than a CR-V and even refuses to drive a 'Nox.  Lots of people moved from Suburbans to Acadias/Traverses simply for drivability reasons... and remember, if you did that 10 years ago you ended up in an Aztek or TrailBlazer... neither of which have the utility that the Lambdas do today.

 

It's just the market shifting on its own here. 

 

Stop playing dumb. LOL!

 

You know as much as I that one factor is the price of fuel and the other fact is we would not have these smaller cars if it were not for the looming CAFE average of 52 MPG average.

 

The one other factor also is the price as few people can afford full size anything anymore. The many people have down sized as their incomes are not what they used to be and increases in taxes are also taking a chunk. The fact is people have less to spend today and will have less to spend in the near future. Hell not all that long ago a well equipped Suburban could be had for $35K now you would be lucky to find a Nox stickered for that price.

 

Now answer me this, would we have the Volt, Hybrids and Spark if it were not for the looming CAFE average in 11 years? The fact is some folks think if the present party is voted out that they average will be dropped. It might but not by much as the genie is out of the bottle.


The new genie is that the government wants us to save fuel and conserve but now with the higher MPG cars we have driven more miles as a country than ever.

 

The market is not shifting on its own. The fact is Ford outside of the Mustang and truck does not offer a V8 anymore and not because people would not buy it. If you want a V8 in a GM car you need to spend well over $30K for it and that price will rise as GM and other will want people to opt for smaller cars and engines.

 

The fact is the MFG have to find a way to get people to buy small and high MPG if they want to meet the government mandate. The public to day is like a rat in a maze. They may make the choice of what direction to a point but they will all be force to the same place no matter what.

 

You think GM is limiting the SS with a high price because they just want to sell only 5K cars just because they want it to be rare. No they made it clear a while back that they had to limit the car due to CAFE issues. What better way to limit a car as saying we will build what ever you want but we will have a price much higher than what we could sell it for. Do you think the SS price will be reasonable after what they already showed us how cheap they can sell the base model in OZ or even the G8 just a few years ago?

 

The root is Gov mandated CAFE and the control is the economic factors of gas prices and car pricing.

 

Anything in the future that has a V8 or excessively low MPG that affects CAFE will have added cost to help limit sales but still offer the car. You can get it but you will have to pay for it. No one is going to do a gas tax while in office to let people choose the cars they want. This is why Lutz and others want a gas tax to let the consumer choose what they drive.


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#27

regfootball

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:17 PM

Is that the government speaking or the market speaking? Lots of people don't even want large cars anymore no matter how efficient they are. My friend with the Scion TC thinks the Camry is a "boat".  Albert won't go bigger than a CR-V and even refuses to drive a 'Nox.  Lots of people moved from Suburbans to Acadias/Traverses simply for drivability reasons... and remember, if you did that 10 years ago you ended up in an Aztek or TrailBlazer... neither of which have the utility that the Lambdas do today.

 

It's just the market shifting on its own here. 

 

Stop playing dumb. LOL!

 

You know as much as I that one factor is the price of fuel and the other fact is we would not have these smaller cars if it were not for the looming CAFE average of 52 MPG average.

 

The one other factor also is the price as few people can afford full size anything anymore. The many people have down sized as their incomes are not what they used to be and increases in taxes are also taking a chunk. The fact is people have less to spend today and will have less to spend in the near future. Hell not all that long ago a well equipped Suburban could be had for $35K now you would be lucky to find a Nox stickered for that price.

 

Now answer me this, would we have the Volt, Hybrids and Spark if it were not for the looming CAFE average in 11 years? The fact is some folks think if the present party is voted out that they average will be dropped. It might but not by much as the genie is out of the bottle.


The new genie is that the government wants us to save fuel and conserve but now with the higher MPG cars we have driven more miles as a country than ever.

 

The market is not shifting on its own. The fact is Ford outside of the Mustang and truck does not offer a V8 anymore and not because people would not buy it. If you want a V8 in a GM car you need to spend well over $30K for it and that price will rise as GM and other will want people to opt for smaller cars and engines.

 

The fact is the MFG have to find a way to get people to buy small and high MPG if they want to meet the government mandate. The public to day is like a rat in a maze. They may make the choice of what direction to a point but they will all be force to the same place no matter what.

 

You think GM is limiting the SS with a high price because they just want to sell only 5K cars just because they want it to be rare. No they made it clear a while back that they had to limit the car due to CAFE issues. What better way to limit a car as saying we will build what ever you want but we will have a price much higher than what we could sell it for. Do you think the SS price will be reasonable after what they already showed us how cheap they can sell the base model in OZ or even the G8 just a few years ago?

 

The root is Gov mandated CAFE and the control is the economic factors of gas prices and car pricing.

 

Anything in the future that has a V8 or excessively low MPG that affects CAFE will have added cost to help limit sales but still offer the car. You can get it but you will have to pay for it. No one is going to do a gas tax while in office to let people choose the cars they want. This is why Lutz and others want a gas tax to let the consumer choose what they drive.

first three paragraphs spot on.  world pressure is for US to reduce fuel consumption and then there is the whole CO2 thing.

 

People typically have shown in the past they will buy as large as their wallet allows.  Nowadays people buy a Cruze because that is their budget.  While I do agree with some about some cars are too large bit (for example I would prefer to drive a Kizashi instead of an Altima for example but the Kizashi at least has enough room for me to sit in back as the same for my kids) most of the shift to smaller cars is due to forces beyond the control of the buyers

 

declining income and purchasing power

rising fuel prices

rising taxes and other daily expenses

CAFE 

globalization of powertrains and the Eurotax etc. on displacement.

 

I love the idea of a car that gets great Mpg.  But there is also first cost, and there is also function, is the car large enough for what i do ....more importantly if i load it up with 4 people and bags for 3-4 days.

 

I think CAFE needs a repeal.  Let the market work by itself.  Gas tax is probably one of the more fair ways to encourage or discourage fuel consumption.


Edited by regfootball, 13 May 2013 - 07:21 PM.

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#28

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

It must be scary living in your worlds where you have to pop your hood each morning to check for a government bureaucrat counting your cylinders.... but they do make medication for that sort of paranoia.

 

Where you see a vast government conspiracy, I see technological advancement and changing of automotive fashion.

 

The full size SUV had a good run. It was the bourgeois status symbol from the early 90s through till about 2008. Back in 1996, every Suzie McMansion wanted a Suburban or Bronco/Expedition. When those weren't pimp enough, the Escalade and Navigator were born. You say back then you could get a loaded Suburban for $35k? Well that would also get you fairly well loaded 5-series as well.... both are now in the $60k range... but the 5-series hasn't gone out of style and the Suburban has.  The fact remains that someone with 50 large to blow on a vehicle is picking the 5-series instead of the Suburban. That isn't the government's fault! That's how the market works!

 

Why do we have the Spark?  Because GM finally decided to make a sub-compact that doesn't suck.  Sub-compacts aren't a new concept.... the Spark is not the first in its class. Sub-compacts pre-date CAFE by at least a few decades going back at least as far as the 1940s with Crosley and the Type-1 Volkswagen. You seem to think that sub-compact sales are taking off because the government is mandating it? No, the Spark is selling well because for the first time in over 60 years, someone built a sub-compact that isn't a total penalty box!

 

(This next bit is related to an article I've been working on)

This next statement won't go over too well on this website, but many of you have to have some reality splashed in your face. The V8 is no longer relevant to 95% of the car buying public. Trucks and Full Size SUVs not included in that.... yet. Oh, tell me how the government is forcing us out of our V8s and into 4-cylinders again. WRONG. For the general driver, there is an upper point of power output where the buyer will simply not pay extra for extra power regardless of the number of cylinders producing it.  Technical advancements have let the 4-cylinder replace the V8 as the standard engine of choice, not because of CAFE or the Government, but because people just don't need the kind of output that a modern V8 produces. 4-cylinder engines are now out-powering V8s of 20-30 years ago and V6es of 5 - 15 years ago.

 

Some examples:

 

The best selling car of the early 80s was the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. The predominant engine was the Oldsmobile 5.0 liter V8 producing about 140hp. Today, there isn't a 4-cylinder engine from 1.4 liters and up that doesn't produce the same to vastly more horsepower. The new GM 2.5 liter 4-cylinder is exactly 50% of the size of the Olds 307 yet can generate over 60 more horsepower.

 

In 1993, Cadillac wowed us with their new DOHC, 32 Valve Northstar V8. In top form at release, it had 300 hp and nearly as much torque. It sucked on premium fuel and required 8-quart oil changes.  Today, GM can produce that much power from a 2-liter turbo and have better torque delivery as well.  300 Hp?  Nearly every run-of-the-mill V6 can do that these days and many can hit 30mpg while doing it.

 

Oh Ford doesn't do many V8s anymore? They don't need to. The Ecoboost V6 produces more horsepower and more torque than any of their standard issue V8s from the past 30 years. Even before you get to the fuel economy issue, it is simply a cost/benefit analysis.... it is cheaper for Ford to slap a couple turbos onto an existing V6 to meet the desired power output than it is to try and engineer a V8 to fit in the front of the Taurus.  It's not some big government conspiracy that created the Eco-boost program... it is simple accounting.

 

What the V8s can do today is beyond the needs of most drivers... the market has spoken on that. Even the mildest V8 I can think of in a production car today, the 5.7 liter Hemi in the 300c, produces 363 horsepower and 393 lb-ft of torque.  I love this engine in the 300c... it is constantly on my radar as a possible purchase in the future... but I have to admit that the 3.6 Pentastar with the 8-speed transmission is more than suitable for my needs and could purchase one with very little regret.

 

So please... visit your doctor and see if Xanax is right for you....


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#29

hyperv6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:59 AM

Why did GM panic and down size to generic ugly boxes in the 80's CAFE, Why did they look for a replacement for the V8 in the Corvette till they invested more technology that found more MPG. CAFE.

 

Why did GM build the X body and then the J cars etc. all with FWD, CAFE.

 

What is todays greatest concern of each automaker CAFE.

 

The CAFE mandates have done a lot of harm to MFG's as it has forced them into a box. But it also has forced them to use better and much more expensive technology. We would still be on carburetors and not see a growth in better Turbo chargers etc. It has been a two edges sword with good and bad effects.

 

The bottom line if you think in your utopian Willy Wonka world that todays cars would not look like they do today without Government mandated CAFE, Emissions and Crash Standards may be I have given you too much credit.

 

Before you get your panties in a bunch this is not just a party thing but just a government thing as much of this would have come no matter who was in charge. Of late the levels were taken to a palace most MFG just have not figured out how to meet them now. 

 

I wonder how much more the coming mostly aluminum Atlas based Ford F150 will cost. Of course they are going mostly aluminum because of all the red necks down south are demanding that their truck be built from aluminum, Right not a desperate attempt to find more MPG and keep a larger truck? The CAFE has nothing to do with that one! LOL!

 

To each his own.


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#30

hyperv6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:05 AM

 

Is that the government speaking or the market speaking? Lots of people don't even want large cars anymore no matter how efficient they are. My friend with the Scion TC thinks the Camry is a "boat".  Albert won't go bigger than a CR-V and even refuses to drive a 'Nox.  Lots of people moved from Suburbans to Acadias/Traverses simply for drivability reasons... and remember, if you did that 10 years ago you ended up in an Aztek or TrailBlazer... neither of which have the utility that the Lambdas do today.

 

It's just the market shifting on its own here. 

 

Stop playing dumb. LOL!

 

You know as much as I that one factor is the price of fuel and the other fact is we would not have these smaller cars if it were not for the looming CAFE average of 52 MPG average.

 

The one other factor also is the price as few people can afford full size anything anymore. The many people have down sized as their incomes are not what they used to be and increases in taxes are also taking a chunk. The fact is people have less to spend today and will have less to spend in the near future. Hell not all that long ago a well equipped Suburban could be had for $35K now you would be lucky to find a Nox stickered for that price.

 

Now answer me this, would we have the Volt, Hybrids and Spark if it were not for the looming CAFE average in 11 years? The fact is some folks think if the present party is voted out that they average will be dropped. It might but not by much as the genie is out of the bottle.


The new genie is that the government wants us to save fuel and conserve but now with the higher MPG cars we have driven more miles as a country than ever.

 

The market is not shifting on its own. The fact is Ford outside of the Mustang and truck does not offer a V8 anymore and not because people would not buy it. If you want a V8 in a GM car you need to spend well over $30K for it and that price will rise as GM and other will want people to opt for smaller cars and engines.

 

The fact is the MFG have to find a way to get people to buy small and high MPG if they want to meet the government mandate. The public to day is like a rat in a maze. They may make the choice of what direction to a point but they will all be force to the same place no matter what.

 

You think GM is limiting the SS with a high price because they just want to sell only 5K cars just because they want it to be rare. No they made it clear a while back that they had to limit the car due to CAFE issues. What better way to limit a car as saying we will build what ever you want but we will have a price much higher than what we could sell it for. Do you think the SS price will be reasonable after what they already showed us how cheap they can sell the base model in OZ or even the G8 just a few years ago?

 

The root is Gov mandated CAFE and the control is the economic factors of gas prices and car pricing.

 

Anything in the future that has a V8 or excessively low MPG that affects CAFE will have added cost to help limit sales but still offer the car. You can get it but you will have to pay for it. No one is going to do a gas tax while in office to let people choose the cars they want. This is why Lutz and others want a gas tax to let the consumer choose what they drive.

first three paragraphs spot on.  world pressure is for US to reduce fuel consumption and then there is the whole CO2 thing.

 

People typically have shown in the past they will buy as large as their wallet allows.  Nowadays people buy a Cruze because that is their budget.  While I do agree with some about some cars are too large bit (for example I would prefer to drive a Kizashi instead of an Altima for example but the Kizashi at least has enough room for me to sit in back as the same for my kids) most of the shift to smaller cars is due to forces beyond the control of the buyers

 

declining income and purchasing power

rising fuel prices

rising taxes and other daily expenses

CAFE 

globalization of powertrains and the Eurotax etc. on displacement.

 

I love the idea of a car that gets great Mpg.  But there is also first cost, and there is also function, is the car large enough for what i do ....more importantly if i load it up with 4 people and bags for 3-4 days.

 

I think CAFE needs a repeal.  Let the market work by itself.  Gas tax is probably one of the more fair ways to encourage or discourage fuel consumption.

 

In todays world it is sad you can fool most of the people all of the time but thank God that some of the people are still not fooled at all and understand what is going on in the real world. Too bad it is fewer everyday.

 

Just look at how many can't even name who their senator is or even who the vice president is so how can we expect them to understand how regulation is affecting their lives positive or negative.  Some people get what they deserve too bad they take the rest of us with them.

 

It is what it is.

.

 


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#31

riviera74

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

Let us get two things straight: CAFE itself is thoroughly lame and deserves to be repealed NOW.  Second, V8 power is great but unnecessary because most people cannot afford $3.50 for regular and $4 for premium for a gallon of gas.  If I were in the market right now, I would get a Chrysler 300 or a Hyundai Genesis (sedan) with the v6 because the v8 is unnecessary AND fuel economy is somewhat better.  Yes, there is a price premium for v8 engines in virtually every car that offers one now.  One reason the v8 can be safely replaced by 4cyl engines is that of rising safety standards over the last 25 years or so.  Higher safety standards tend to make cars themselves heavier, regardless of engine size or type.  Compare a a Chevy Citation or Chevette to today's Spark: from a safety stanpoint there is no comparison.  The only penalty is weight. 

 

As for a $40K Impala, I am unsurprised by this but I would like to see if the car itself merits such a price by being in one.  I do think that GM should push the Malibu much harder and sell more of those (like 4:1 is a good ratio) to allow the 2014 Impala to be more exclusive than it is currently.


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#32

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

Why did GM panic and down size to generic ugly boxes in the 80's CAFE, Why did they look for a replacement for the V8 in the Corvette till they invested more technology that found more MPG. CAFE.

 

Why did GM build the X body and then the J cars etc. all with FWD, CAFE.

 

What is todays greatest concern of each automaker CAFE.

 

The CAFE mandates have done a lot of harm to MFG's as it has forced them into a box. But it also has forced them to use better and much more expensive technology. We would still be on carburetors and not see a growth in better Turbo chargers etc. It has been a two edges sword with good and bad effects.

 

The bottom line if you think in your utopian Willy Wonka world that todays cars would not look like they do today without Government mandated CAFE, Emissions and Crash Standards may be I have given you too much credit.

 

Before you get your panties in a bunch this is not just a party thing but just a government thing as much of this would have come no matter who was in charge. Of late the levels were taken to a palace most MFG just have not figured out how to meet them now. 

 

I wonder how much more the coming mostly aluminum Atlas based Ford F150 will cost. Of course they are going mostly aluminum because of all the red necks down south are demanding that their truck be built from aluminum, Right not a desperate attempt to find more MPG and keep a larger truck? The CAFE has nothing to do with that one! LOL!

 

To each his own.

 

GM didn't build the X-cars because of CAFE, they built the X-cars because people started buying Civics, Corollas, and Datsun 210s. 

GM's panic was in response to people (The Market) moving towards these small foreign imports on their own. Fuel Economy was foremost on everyone's mind at the time... CAFE was a symptom, not a cause.  

Chrysler got into their bad spot because THE MARKET stopped buying their huge gas guzzling cars, they Chrysler didn't downsize their vehicles quick enough to meet the demands of the market... CAFE had nothing to do with it. 

 

Blaming CAFE for what cars are today is a distraction. Yes the government rules are cumbersome, but the market is a far stronger force on the automotive landscape.  If you're a mid-30-something with $30k to spend on a car, chances are you're buying a 4-cylinder FWD sedan rather than a Camaro SS. It's not some conspiracy... it's just where the market is.


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#33

hyperv6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

Why did GM panic and down size to generic ugly boxes in the 80's CAFE, Why did they look for a replacement for the V8 in the Corvette till they invested more technology that found more MPG. CAFE.

 

Why did GM build the X body and then the J cars etc. all with FWD, CAFE.

 

What is todays greatest concern of each automaker CAFE.

 

The CAFE mandates have done a lot of harm to MFG's as it has forced them into a box. But it also has forced them to use better and much more expensive technology. We would still be on carburetors and not see a growth in better Turbo chargers etc. It has been a two edges sword with good and bad effects.

 

The bottom line if you think in your utopian Willy Wonka world that todays cars would not look like they do today without Government mandated CAFE, Emissions and Crash Standards may be I have given you too much credit.

 

Before you get your panties in a bunch this is not just a party thing but just a government thing as much of this would have come no matter who was in charge. Of late the levels were taken to a palace most MFG just have not figured out how to meet them now. 

 

I wonder how much more the coming mostly aluminum Atlas based Ford F150 will cost. Of course they are going mostly aluminum because of all the red necks down south are demanding that their truck be built from aluminum, Right not a desperate attempt to find more MPG and keep a larger truck? The CAFE has nothing to do with that one! LOL!

 

To each his own.

 

GM didn't build the X-cars because of CAFE, they built the X-cars because people started buying Civics, Corollas, and Datsun 210s. 

GM's panic was in response to people (The Market) moving towards these small foreign imports on their own. Fuel Economy was foremost on everyone's mind at the time... CAFE was a symptom, not a cause.  

Chrysler got into their bad spot because THE MARKET stopped buying their huge gas guzzling cars, they Chrysler didn't downsize their vehicles quick enough to meet the demands of the market... CAFE had nothing to do with it. 

 

Blaming CAFE for what cars are today is a distraction. Yes the government rules are cumbersome, but the market is a far stronger force on the automotive landscape.  If you're a mid-30-something with $30k to spend on a car, chances are you're buying a 4-cylinder FWD sedan rather than a Camaro SS. It's not some conspiracy... it's just where the market is.

 

 

I was around at the time of the X body intro and at that time GM was looking for MPG. You are correct to part of it being due to the Honda and Toyota invasion. But the fact was GM could not meet the standards set by the government.

 

The fact is GM was looking to eliminate the V8 in the late 70's and early 80's as they did not think they could meet the CAFE with the engine they had. This lead to cars like the Camaro and TA getting a 305 Chevy V8 and even the Vette people testing a two engine V6 Citation as they were told they had to look for ways to live with out the V8.

 

Now you know as well as I do the V8 was still very popular and cooler heads at GM recognized this and finally looked for ways to improve the MPG in the V8 as much as they could to meet the CAFE.

 

While areas like on the coast and other areas may have fallen in love with the 4 cylinder smaller cars the middle of the country continued to buy V8 trucks and SUV's because they did not want the smaller cars and smaller engines.

 

Yes you are correct the market shifted but they bought trucks and SUVs in more cases vs. the 4 cylinder cars.


Today most people buy 4 cylinders for two main reasons. One it is mostly all that is offered if they like it or not but also in many cases it is all they can afford to buy under $30K.

 

You should run for office as you are much like many in office now that claim a little truth for credibility and go off without fully disclosing the facts.

 

Just to ask a question. What 30 something that can afford a $30K car has much choice other than a 4 cylinder and a rare V6?  It is not what the market demands as much as what little choice the menu offers here.


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#34

hyperv6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:20 PM

Let us get two things straight: CAFE itself is thoroughly lame and deserves to be repealed NOW.  Second, V8 power is great but unnecessary because most people cannot afford $3.50 for regular and $4 for premium for a gallon of gas.  If I were in the market right now, I would get a Chrysler 300 or a Hyundai Genesis (sedan) with the v6 because the v8 is unnecessary AND fuel economy is somewhat better.  Yes, there is a price premium for v8 engines in virtually every car that offers one now.  One reason the v8 can be safely replaced by 4cyl engines is that of rising safety standards over the last 25 years or so.  Higher safety standards tend to make cars themselves heavier, regardless of engine size or type.  Compare a a Chevy Citation or Chevette to today's Spark: from a safety stanpoint there is no comparison.  The only penalty is weight. 

 

As for a $40K Impala, I am unsurprised by this but I would like to see if the car itself merits such a price by being in one.  I do think that GM should push the Malibu much harder and sell more of those (like 4:1 is a good ratio) to allow the 2014 Impala to be more exclusive than it is currently.

 

 

I totally agree on the repeal but it is not going to happen. The alternative is higher gas tax but there is no one willing to support it in elected office. Nor have any admin in the last 20 years even approached a real energy program.

 

V8 is still relevant in some models but today we do have viable alturnatives now we never had in the past.

 

As time goes on the weight will drop in cars but two issues will happen. The cars will get smaller as this is the cheapest way to make them lighter. We will see larger cars drop weight but it will add much more cost to cars that are already over priced.

 

Like I said the next 10 years will change cars more than we have seen in 50 years,

 

As for the Impala and price. I have been in it and know what the LTZ is like. To be honest none of these cars are worth $40K but of all in this group the Impala is one of the nicest. It has a lot of room and has the materials in side you have never seen in a Chevy before. It has returned to the formula of years ago of the Caprice with Cadillac like feel but for $15K less.

 

Chevy understands that the LTZ is only a small part of this line up and will offer the LT1-2 for a much lower price in the $30K range and it will do well with the majority being this model. Years ago the Impala was the less common model and the Impala was the more common one and this is what they have returned too.

 

The real key now is to move the Lacrosse up as it is now not the better of the two cars outside some options not available on the Chevy. The Chevy got all the things learned on the XTS that they could incorporate that the aging Buick lacks.  I expect the Lacrosse will be replaced in a couple years.


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#35

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:46 PM

A 30-something with $30k to spend has, by my count, at least 4 V8 power cars to choose from (Charger, Challenger, Camaro, Mustang) and many more V6es than I care to count.. but at least 1 from every mainstream brand that offers V6/I6 cars. At the $30k mark, the V6 is not a rare option at all. 

 

GM was panicked about the V8 because at the time, quite frankly, their V8s sucked. By the mid '70s, the Oldsmobile 350 was putting out 160 horsepower and using a gallon of gas every 18 miles to do it... if you were lucky. The country just had its first two oil shocks, and the President was on T.V. telling them to put on a sweater and showing them how to lower the thermostat.   

 

At the same time, Datsun was putting out a 1.4 liter with 85 horsepower and a 2.4 liter I-6 that made 125hp. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out that if Datsun can produce 85 horsepower at 1.4 liters (and get 27mpg), then Oldsmobile is in trouble using 5.7 liters to make 160hp.  GM's response was to build another V8, the HT-4100, with just 10hp more. 

 

So.. yes CAFE was there... but the panic was (justifiably) over the import models.... it's even reflected in the commercials and dealer training videos of the time that Ninety-Eight has so kindly posted. 


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#36

hyperv6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

A 30-something with $30k to spend has, by my count, at least 4 V8 power cars to choose from (Charger, Challenger, Camaro, Mustang) and many more V6es than I care to count.. but at least 1 from every mainstream brand that offers V6/I6 cars. At the $30k mark, the V6 is not a rare option at all. 

 

GM was panicked about the V8 because at the time, quite frankly, their V8s sucked. By the mid '70s, the Oldsmobile 350 was putting out 160 horsepower and using a gallon of gas every 18 miles to do it... if you were lucky. The country just had its first two oil shocks, and the President was on T.V. telling them to put on a sweater and showing them how to lower the thermostat.   

 

At the same time, Datsun was putting out a 1.4 liter with 85 horsepower and a 2.4 liter I-6 that made 125hp. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out that if Datsun can produce 85 horsepower at 1.4 liters (and get 27mpg), then Oldsmobile is in trouble using 5.7 liters to make 160hp.  GM's response was to build another V8, the HT-4100, with just 10hp more. 

 

So.. yes CAFE was there... but the panic was (justifiably) over the import models.... it's even reflected in the commercials and dealer training videos of the time that Ninety-Eight has so kindly posted. 

 

 

Of the models you state if ordered with a V8 you do not get much car. 

 

Like I said in the next 10 years there will be changes we have not seen in the auto industry for year.  GM has told their people to shut up on the new CAFE but there are many who still feel as Lutz and others who still speak out on it. Right now F has no plan that will meet the standard. They are still looking for ways to meet it with out having to buy credits. I have seen enough quotes from GM people before they were told to stand down to know where their concerns are.

 

The other issue is how to meet these levels and still offer cars that people will want, can afford and will not be a pile of junk when the hybrid system  fails.

 

No matter if you agree or not the future will hold a lot of change and it will be interesting to see how they MFG deal with it. 52 MPG is something that will be difficult to meet unless the have some technology they have not shown us yet.

 


 


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#37

Drew Dowdell

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:26 PM

52 mpg is diesel hybrid... nothing that remarkable by 2025.


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#38

Camino LS6

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:35 PM

All I can say at this point is that I'll never buy a new car I don't like.


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#39

Lamar

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:48 PM

For all the bellyaching about the Impala touching $40K... no one ever held a gun to a customer's head and said "check all the boxes or I'm gonna drop you right here."  Nor has anyone kidnapped someone's child and forced them to buy the high-line model on the showroom floor as ransom.

 

Also, I would have figured that people would rejoice over the fact that the Impala was no longer the inexpensive, archaic entry in the large sedan market (an honor previously held by the Ford Panthers).  And yet, here we are.


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#40

Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

Some people will always find something to bitch about.  Such is the nature of internet forums.


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