Scion xD versus the Nissan Versa

[Rvinyl.com]

So, I have been having some discussions with people on the NIssan and Scion forums and wanted to know what you guys thought as well seeing as how there may be less confirmation bias here then on either of those forums. What do you think? Which is the better value? Which of the two if more fun to drive?

[Z-06]

None.

[Rvinyl.com]

Hmmm...well, that's one way to answer the question I suppose.

[Drew Dowdell]

Sonic 5 door.

[Intrepidation]

It's like asking which is less terrible: being punched in the crotch or being hit in the face with a 2x4. All day. For the rest of your life.

[Rvinyl.com]

Yeah, it's kind of the worst of the worst. I have been thinking about writing up a side by side comparison between the Sonic, the Accent, the Versa and the xD and see who come out on top (or the bottom as the case may be). Still, I think I might bore people to death if I do.

[David]

Good Idea Vinylsmith, I think there are plenty of people who cannot afford much and would like to see how these entry level auto's pan out.

Personally I would go with the Sonic as Drew suggests, but a comparison would be very cool.

Just start with the Tech Comparison of what each has and at what cost as this alone can show you where the value is at from a pure tech list and cost stand point. Then you have to add the seat of your pants personal feeling based on actual driving / handling.

[Intrepidation]

I can't believe someone would willingly walk into a Nissan dealership, look at a Versa and say, "Yep, I'd like to pay money for that."

[Drew Dowdell]

The Versa Note isn't as terrible as its predecessors, but the Sonic is still better.... Sonic also costs more.

[Rvinyl.com]

Yeah, my gut would be to go with the Sonic. The Versa is a complete yawn, the xD an epic FAIL althouh the jury is still out (for me) on the Accent.

[Intrepidation]

Sonic or Fiesta is I had to purchase in this segment.

[bobo]

The Scion has the hp advantage. I actually like the looks of the Versa Note. The only car in this segment I've driven is the Fiesta, and the engine in that thing is too weak.

[Intrepidation]

Sonic or Fiesta is I had to purchase in this segment.

Let me rephrase that, either Sonic RS or Fiesta ST.

[Rvinyl.com]

This thread keeps getting better! So, what about the Hyundai Accent? Where does it stack up in the mix?

[Intrepidation]

Well I don't think its any sort of drives car, but it looks much better than the Yars, , or Vera, and comes with a lot of features for good value. However, I'd rather have its better looking corporate cousin, the Rio, given the choice. There's also the Fit, which is the king of clever packaging, but for me the Sonic RS or Fiesta ST would be the way to go.

[Robert Hall]

If I was shopping in this price point, I'd rather have a larger low mileage used car...these subcompacts are just so depressing for the most part.

[Rvinyl.com]

Yeah, I see what you're saying but I think these subcompacts are getting more and more interesting every year.

[Drew Dowdell]

You guys know me, I like big cars, but the sonic hatch was good enough for me to consider one.

[Intrepidation]

If I was shopping in this price point, I'd rather have a larger low mileage used car...these subcompacts are just so depressing for the most part.

I dunno, I don't think these are particularly depressing, quite the opposite.

[David]

While I would take either of these American auto's over Asian or European, over all I still think they are an ugly category and space/comfort for big people is pathetic.

[ehaase]

I would take the xD over the Versa because of Toyota reliability. I believe the xD is basically a long wheelbase Yaris with a Corolla engine. However, the VW Golf is the only hatchback that really appeals to me, but it is in the class above the xD and Versa. I find the Fiesta and the Sonic to be overstyled.

[J Reinhardt]

Both cars aren't fun to drive from a enthusiast standpoint. The versa looks like it delivers bread or something. I'd rather get a Fiesta or Mazda 2, or Honda Fit.

[regfootball]

i drove the Fiesta ST at the Ford Ecoboost drive a couple weekends ago, it's a peach. But it is pricier than the base versions.

To me, in this class of vehicle, it is important to determine if you are willing to pay the price premium for an automatic tranny. Because the auto equipped ones tend to add a lot of price to them. For example, the chevy dealer i visited yesterday had a new Sonic for 13,999. The automatic ones quite a bit more.

Lots of the options like cruise and power windows also jack up the prices to almost the same the compact class.

For a good part of last year, the dealer group I used to work for had Focus and Fiestas at prices pretty close to one other. Ford was really discounting the Focus.

A car like the current Mazda3 while on its last leg may be selling at super discounts with the new one coming out. A Mazda3 with discounts compared to a subcompact which is not discounted much seems like a no brainer.

I can't get excited about the Sonic, although I have not driven one yet. I am for a subcompact it is good but at some point the extra girth of a compact class car doesn't seem that far away in price.

[J Reinhardt]

Auto trannies will be even more expensive once they start using dual clutch transmissions.

[Rvinyl.com]

Wow! You guys are amazing! So, is this what the list of comparable vehicles looks like:

Chevy Sonic

Mazda 2

Nissan Versa (Note)

Hyundai Accent

Ford Fiesta

Are there any I'm missing or more to add?

[Drew Dowdell]

Kia Rio

Fiat 500

[Robert Hall]

Isn't the 500 more in the smaller subsubcompact niche with the Spark and Mini? Or do you mean the 500L.

[Drew Dowdell]

I would put the 500 in the same size class as the Fiesta and Mazda2, the 500L is on the other side of the spectrum being a bit larger than the Sonic

[David]

500L loaded is being advertised here in Seattle for $19,900.

[Intrepidation]

Thing about the Sonic is fuel economy isn't impressive. The Sonic is averaging 28.6 while the Focus is averaging 34.8 in the same conditions.

[Rvinyl.com]

Yeah, for whatever reason that I hadn't even considered fuel economy. I guess I just assumed that at the subcompact level there would be such wild variations. Does anyone know why the Sonic gets so many fewer MPG than the Fiesta?

[Drew Dowdell]

Weight. Drivers into the boost too often.

[David]

Power uses gas but then could it also be that Turbo Charged Engines are not as Efficient as the Marketing Machine would like to tell us?

I would rather have a DI Pushrod 4 or v6 over a Dual Overhead Cam Turbo engine. More reliable and longer lasting I think than what i still see for turbo engines.

Show me when a turbo Engine gets to 500K and 1 million miles and that it can still pull like a quality pushrod v8, 6 or 4 can.

[Drew Dowdell]

Power uses gas but then could it also be that Turbo Charged Engines are not as Efficient as the Marketing Machine would like to tell us?

I would rather have a DI Pushrod 4 or v6 over a Dual Overhead Cam Turbo engine. More reliable and longer lasting I think than what i still see for turbo engines.

Show me when a turbo Engine gets to 500K and 1 million miles and that it can still pull like a quality pushrod v8, 6 or 4 can.

K. here ya go.

[David]

ROFL Semi Diesel trucks is an exception. I am talking about gas silly boy!

Hot Rig, Love the Look!

[Intrepidation]

Weight. Drivers into the boost too often.

The numbers I listed were from non turbo automatic/DSG models.

[Intrepidation]

Power uses gas but then could it also be that Turbo Charged Engines are not as Efficient as the Marketing Machine would like to tell us?

I would rather have a DI Pushrod 4 or v6 over a Dual Overhead Cam Turbo engine. More reliable and longer lasting I think than what i still see for turbo engines.

Show me when a turbo Engine gets to 500K and 1 million miles and that it can still pull like a quality pushrod v8, 6 or 4 can.

The highest known mileage on a Saab was recorded by a guy named Peter Gilbert, from Wisconsin in the US. Peter’s 1989 Saab 900 SPG ticked over 1 million miles at the Saab Owners Convention held in the US back in 2006 with then-SaabUSA President Jay Spenchian in attendance. That car is now in the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

[regfootball]

the reason some of these subcompacts don't get the mpg you'd think compared to larger cars is primarily two reasons, one being they have smaller engines that work harder, but the main reason is the aerdynamics of a short stubby and comparably tall vehicle are not good in comparison to a long low wide flowing teardrop shape like say, many mid size sedans.

[David]

Power uses gas but then could it also be that Turbo Charged Engines are not as Efficient as the Marketing Machine would like to tell us?

I would rather have a DI Pushrod 4 or v6 over a Dual Overhead Cam Turbo engine. More reliable and longer lasting I think than what i still see for turbo engines.

Show me when a turbo Engine gets to 500K and 1 million miles and that it can still pull like a quality pushrod v8, 6 or 4 can.

The highest known mileage on a Saab was recorded by a guy named Peter Gilbert, from Wisconsin in the US. Peter’s 1989 Saab 900 SPG ticked over 1 million miles at the Saab Owners Convention held in the US back in 2006 with then-SaabUSA President Jay Spenchian in attendance. That car is now in the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

And if this was an easy repeatable thing for Turbo's we would have plenty of them still around today. One is awesome and great but does not instill in me the long term life of a small turbo engine compared to my pushrod V8 or V6 engines.

[Intrepidation]

Power uses gas but then could it also be that Turbo Charged Engines are not as Efficient as the Marketing Machine would like to tell us?

I would rather have a DI Pushrod 4 or v6 over a Dual Overhead Cam Turbo engine. More reliable and longer lasting I think than what i still see for turbo engines.

Show me when a turbo Engine gets to 500K and 1 million miles and that it can still pull like a quality pushrod v8, 6 or 4 can.

The highest known mileage on a Saab was recorded by a guy named Peter Gilbert, from Wisconsin in the US. Peter’s 1989 Saab 900 SPG ticked over 1 million miles at the Saab Owners Convention held in the US back in 2006 with then-SaabUSA President Jay Spenchian in attendance. That car is now in the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

And if this was an easy repeatable thing for Turbo's we would have plenty of them still around today. One is awesome and great but does not instill in me the long term life of a small turbo engine compared to my pushrod V8 or V6 engines.

Clearly you know very little about turbochargers. There are many, many high mileage turbocharged vehicles, especially Saabs, since most Saabs were turbocharged anyway. While I could waste my afternoon hunting down links of various high mileage vehicle, you can use your own time educating yourself. Like any vehicle, you just have to take care of it.

[David]

At least in the Pacific NW SAAB is one of those weird anomoly's that you see randomly from time to time. The few old SAAB's that I did see or have had a chance to talk to the owners they all talk about having to rebuild the engine and turbo within 100-150K miles.

I understand the technology and what it can do for Diesels as that is well known and used here yet gas Turbo's are not common here and do not seem to hold up. Try and find an old Subaru around here, you might find a rare one that is still running but usually no old ones.

My first experiance with Turbo was a Ford Mustang SVO 1984. While all maintenance was done following the factory recommendations, the motor still was replaced by Ford at 30K miles and at 65K the engine was toast again and It went out the door. Diesel being the lone exception, Turbo engines on cars from the 80's and 90's have left me with little faith and willing to let others be the test rats before I would go with one. I have more faith in Superchargers than turbo's. Superchargers like the 3800 engine GM made just last as long as the maintenance is done on them. Solid hard working Supercharged V6.

[Intrepidation]

So you're basing your impression of turbocharger quality on an 80's Mustang? Quality and the 80's go together like the Titanic and an iceberg.

[David]

I just stated where my first experiance was with Turbo, and even in the 90's Turbo was still not good, yet Superchargers Rock and have been a solid way to boost performance. I have seen many long life Supercharged V8 engines. I have not seen long life Turbo V8's.

So for me, traditional pushrod V8 engines and Supercharged engines are what tends to go with long life in comparison to Turob. I will stay with my existing V8's as is till Turbo's get to what I precieve as a rock solid place without too big of a penalty in gas consumption since the marketing is Turbo gives you 4 banger high mileage with V8 power. I have not seen this yet in real world driving by those that do have turbo's.

[Drew Dowdell]

I have. 27 mpg out of an AWD Ecoboost MKS and 350 hp and lots and lots of low end torque.

[David]

Very Cool, Look forward to a long term update in 10 years

[Intrepidation]

I just stated where my first experiance was with Turbo, and even in the 90's Turbo was still not good, yet Superchargers Rock and have been a solid way to boost performance. I have seen many long life Supercharged V8 engines. I have not seen long life Turbo V8's.

So for me, traditional pushrod V8 engines and Supercharged engines are what tends to go with long life in comparison to Turob. I will stay with my existing V8's as is till Turbo's get to what I precieve as a rock solid place without too big of a penalty in gas consumption since the marketing is Turbo gives you 4 banger high mileage with V8 power. I have not seen this yet in real world driving by those that do have turbo's.

I'm surprised you find superchargers more reliable, since they have far fewer applications than turbochargers. Of course I do enjoy that supercharger whine. Nothing against them.

[David]

Biggest experiance with them is the Regal GS which is very popular in Seattle and has been a solid car. You find plenty on the road around here.

Also aftermarket upgrade kits and the Toyota TRD Supercharge kit on plenty of 4 runners and Tacoma's here so you hear the Whine all the time and it is exciting to drive one that just fly's low to the ground.

Superchargers could be a northwest thing also as I grew up with them here since the 70's.

[Drew Dowdell]

Dfelt, the problem with Turbos that you are referring to is almost exclusively due to those turbos being afterthought, knee jerk actions by car manufacturers. Ford's turbo was just slapped on a 4 cylinder and they called it a day. Purpose built turbo engines do so much better.

[regfootball]

DI changed the game and made turbos da schizzle.

[Intrepidation]

Well, more like the use of better build quality, engines designed specifically for turbocharging, and of course the big one: intercoolers.