Industry News: BMW Takes the Luxury Crown For 2015 in the U.S.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Helped by a plethora of CUVs, the hottest selling segment, and the on fire 4-series, BMW managed to stave off Lexus, its German rivals, and Cadillac for the fourth year in a row. BMW(+1.4%) finished 2015 with 346,023 sales. Lexus (+10.7), not far behind with 344,601 sales came in at number two, just 1,422 fewer.

 

The 4-series, which despite BMW being propelled in terms of growth mostly by CUVs, was the lone stalwart car nameplate to actually show gains. Although the 1/2-series were up 77%, it must be noted that they are, for all intents new entries after the 1-series was discontinued in 2014 and re-pinned the 2-series for 2015. The 3,5,6, and 7-Series, in addition to the Z4, were all down

 

Buick Motor Co. (-2.6%) came in at 223,055, while the top 5 was rounded off by Audi(11.1%+) , in lieu of VW's diesel debacle managed to pull off a spot as number four with 202,202 sales. Honda's Acura (5.6%+) posted a respectable bump in sales with 177,165.

 

Special notice goes to American make Cadillac (2.6%+). In a strong effort, and touting six nameplates, two less than it's nearest competitor Acura, and a whopping ten less than the perceived luxury leader Mercedes Benz, came from a dismal 2014, to a rise in sales with 175,267 sales. Cadillac expects growth in 2016 as it introduces the all new XT5 crossover and first ever CT6 large executive class Saloon.

 

Luxury car sales in the United States in 2015

 

1) BMW - 346,023 - up 1.8 percent
2) Lexus - 344,601 - up 10.7 percent
3) Mercedes-Benz - 343,088 - up 3.8 percent
4) Buick Motor Co. 223,055- down 2.6 percent
5) Audi - 202,202 - up 11.1 percent
6) Acura - 177,165 - up 5.6 percent
7) Cadillac - 175,267 - up 2.6 percent
8 )Infiniti - 133,498 - up 13.8 percent
9) Lincoln - 101,227 - up 7.1 percent
10) Land Rover - 70,582 - up 37 percent
11) Volvo - 70,047 - up 24.3 percent
12) Porsche - 51,756 - up 10.1 percent
13) Jaguar - 14,466 - down 8 percent
14) Maserati - 11,697 - down 9.6 percent
15) Bentley - 2,686 - down 10.6 percent
16) Rolls-Royce - 1,140 - up 2.6 percent

 

You can view the complete set of 2015 year end sales figures at our Auto Sales Figure Ticker, or view our archives going back to 2005 in our Auto Sales Figure Archives.

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[Cmicasa the Great]

Amazing that Jaguar is so lauded by some yet sells in numbers that even the extremely niche Maserati can't help but see as obtainable. 

 

Note to GM.. if Porsche can pull in 52K sales with several 911s, a Cayman, a Boxster, a Cayanne, a Macan, and a Panamera.. certainly the Corvette Division could pull it off after a year of 33K Vettes sold with only the Stingray and Z06. Corvette CUV, tall wagon, based on Alpha..with VSeries drivetrain= YUMMY

 

Chevy doesn't need the Vette anymore. The Camaro would do fine as the Flagship, especially once the Z28 or ZL1 arrive.

 

Furthermore.. how about getting out in front of GMC's Denali line and promoting it separately? Out of GMC's whopping 559K sales.. if the percentage still holds true of 25% Denali. we are looking at 149K Denalis sold.. equaling massive profits

[Drew Dowdell]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

[David]

Very interesting, if MB is so great then how for 4 years in a row does BMW beat MB. Love to hear SMK explain that.

[Suaviloquent]

Well, no one said the rise to the top would be easy for Cadillac.

 

I agree with the sentiment that this list should also include vehicles with big money no whammy.

 

GMC Denali is a crazy cash cow. 

 

I wonder if GMC should just be a Denali only brand - and then shift everyone's attention to Buick. 

 

But it'll also include munificent moneymakers such as the ES/RX brothers.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

Well 150k certainly puts it above Lincoln and such.. Denali should be expanded

[smk4565]

BMW beats Mercedes because the 3/4 series sells in such huge volumes.  The C-class is gaining, maybe with a plug-in, convertible and coupe being added to the C-class range this year they can close the gap more.   In most segments, especially the higher priced ones Mercedes beats BMW.  BMW is a strong brand, they have good image, loyal fan base, a super smooth inline six, some pretty good tech.  I think the GLC is what Mercedes needs to be successful to top BMW.

 

Jaguar sales are frighteningly small.  You'd think they would be doing better by now, and you sort of wonder how they stay alive.  They could easily double or triple their sales next year with the F-Pace and XE though.  Selling 15,000 XE's in a year shouldn't be too big of an ask.

 

I am surprised Lincoln and Acura were up, who buys those?  Why do they buy them?  So many better choices out there.

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up. 

[smk4565]

Maybe GM should expand Cadillac's line up.  Cadillac being the top GM brand should in theory have the highest profit margins.   Putting your ducks in the Buick-GM basket and ignoring Cadillac is like VW group seeing $20,000 profit per car on Porsche and Bentley and $5,000 on Audi and saying, quick build more Audis, add an A10 sedan and forget about Bentley and Porsche.  

 

I have no doubt that the Denali trim level is a good profit margin since it is fancy Chevy, just like Lincoln or Acura are a high trim level of Ford/Honda mechanicals.  However, how much profit are these GMC's really making?  General Motors reported a $1.4 billion dollar profit in the 3rd quarter of 2015, while Toyota posted a $5.1 billion profit during the same 3 month period.  And Toyota doesn't have nearly the pick up truck sales that GM does they are doing that mostly on Corollas, Prius, and Camrys.

 

If Buick is all profit, GMC is all profit, Cadillac is making profit, how is Toyota 300% more profitable than GM?  Chevy can't be losing a billion dollars per quarter.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.

Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

[oldshurst442]

Amazing that Jaguar is so lauded by some yet sells in numbers that even the extremely niche Maserati can't help but see as obtainable. 

 

Note to GM.. if Porsche can pull in 52K sales with several 911s, a Cayman, a Boxster, a Cayanne, a Macan, and a Panamera.. certainly the Corvette Division could pull it off after a year of 33K Vettes sold with only the Stingray and Z06. Corvette CUV, tall wagon, based on Alpha..with VSeries drivetrain= YUMMY

 

Chevy doesn't need the Vette anymore. The Camaro would do fine as the Flagship, especially once the Z28 or ZL1 arrive.

 

Furthermore.. how about getting out in front of GMC's Denali line and promoting it separately? Out of GMC's whopping 559K sales.. if the percentage still holds true of 25% Denali. we are looking at 149K Denalis sold.. equaling massive profits

I sooooooo want Corvette to be its own brand.

Corvette being its own brand COULD be VERY successful.

 

The only problem I foresee with this is the MARKETING part of the equation.

GM needs to get that in order for all their brands BEFORE they take on a new endeavor with Corvette separating from Chevy.

 

Cadillac NEEDS to be stand alone.

If some GM stores are to have on the same grounds Chevy and Cadillac, then Cadillac NEEDS to be secluded...

 

Cadillac sales folk, F&I guys NEED to be trained professionals...not same 'ol cheesy car salesmen. 

 

Corvette could survive in the same showroom as Chevrolet though, but they too, need to have a more upscale, upbeat, professional vibe in the showroom.

 

 

Denali trim outselling Lincoln and Acura individually and combined LR and Jaguar is pretty impressive.

Denali definitely needs to be tapped into more.  Again though, GM's marketing needs to improve before tapping into this gem that is Denali.

[oldshurst442]

 

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.

Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

 

One Ford is definitely a GREAT idea for...Ford.

For FoMoCo. though, not so good.

 

Mercury is no longer and Lincoln aint doing to good. Sure...double digit % points higher in sales for Lincoln, but...a GMC trim level....that happens to be imitating luxury from a more or less badge engineered corporate brother brand, beating out  Lincoln in sales does not look too good...

Dont forget...Lincoln has MORE SUVs in their line-up  than GMC does as we speak...and its the SUVs that are selling hot...THAT is why BMW is sales king for 2015...

 

So...in other words...

 

Premium trimmed Fords are ALSO outselling Lincoln...

 

I wouldnt be arguing or trying to stick it to 'the man' about this Wings...the numbers are NOT in your favour...

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Yup, Lincoln is in trouble.

 

Must be I guess.

[oldshurst442]

I

 

Yup, Lincoln is in trouble.

 

Must be I guess.

Lincoln is one small mistake, one small blunder, one miscalculation away from joining Mercury....

 

If the Continental does not pan out...what next?

 

Dont sit there and tell me that the Continental WILL be a smashing success...only time will tell...and as the Continental aint on sale yet...

 

Remember Wings...

 

Lincoln LS = failure in the market place (OK...at first was a success, left to rot and abandoned be FoMoCo., that is still a market place failure)

 

Lincoln Zephyr = failure in the market place...it changed name...

 

Lincoln MKZ  = failure in the market place 1st generation as a MKZ...

 

This current MKZ is luke warm...I bet Fusion Titanium trims outselling it...

 

Lincoln MKS = failure in the market place...

 

The SUVs are doing good...

 

Acura too, sells a ton of SUVs...

 

 

BIG DEAL!!!

 

PS: Buick and Cadillac SUVs, many of them, are on their way...I wonder if those will have an impact on Lincoln SUV sales?

Edited January 8, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

[smk4565]

IF (and a big IF) Corvette was it's own brand then it couldn't be at a Chevy dealership, it would still be a Chevy then.  They'd have to have Corvette stand alone dealerships like Porsche has, or Corvette/Cadillac dealerships.  Chevy dealers would riot if they lost the Corvette, and GM doesn't seem to want to make V-series Cadillac crossovers, yet people want them to launch a Corvette brand with 500 hp crossovers?  

 

GM had 9 brands before and they went bankrupt.  More brands isn't GM's answer to success.  They need to put those high power crossovers into Cadillac, fill out that line up, make a Cadillac sports car, a Buick Riviera, etc.  Work on the brands they have.  Heck, GM can't get the Malibu right, they can't launch a new brand.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

If Buick is all profit, GMC is all profit, Cadillac is making profit, how is Toyota 300% more profitable than GM?  Chevy can't be losing a billion dollars per quarter.

Japan manipulates the Eff outta currency... in favor of its brands.. Toyota also has a lineup of "par" vehicles... covered in new shells. Lack of legacy costs.. GM still has despite BK... because they went the humane route.. Get off your ass and research.. Or better yet.. stop slobbing all over every foreign knob U see

[Cmicasa the Great]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined. Easily.Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

Its translucent... No.. Opaque. Put a Titanium Fusion, hell put a Fusion made of titanium next to a normal Fusion, and I'd be hard pressed to tell yourself why U spent the extra coin. Buick? There is a level of cache attached to it. Ford Titanium? Not at all.

[El Kabong]

The list includes a pretty broad spectrum of brands, but unlike, say, trim levels on mainstream brands you can at least see where the companies involved are making an effort to sell vehicles that have a unique aspect to them.

If we are to take the luxury brands here at face value then GM appears to be doing quite well for itself, especially considering it is the only company to have two brands on the list. Well done.

Edited January 9, 2016 by El Kabong

[Cmicasa the Great]

IF (and a big IF) Corvette was it's own brand then it couldn't be at a Chevy dealership, it would still be a Chevy then.  They'd have to have Corvette stand alone dealerships like Porsche has, or Corvette/Cadillac dealerships.  Chevy dealers would riot if they lost the Corvette, and GM doesn't seem to want to make V-series Cadillac crossovers, yet people want them to launch a Corvette brand with 500 hp crossovers?  

 

GM had 9 brands before and they went bankrupt.  More brands isn't GM's answer to success.  They need to put those high power crossovers into Cadillac, fill out that line up, make a Cadillac sports car, a Buick Riviera, etc.  Work on the brands they have.  Heck, GM can't get the Malibu right, they can't launch a new brand.

The Porsche dealers in my area are coupled.

GM filing BK had nothing to do with its having as many brands.. it had to do with the definition of those brands.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

 

 

Expedition Platinum is the equal to GMC.

Same for Explorer Platinum.

Same for Fusion Titantium with Regal.

Certainly for F-150.

Certainly for SD.

Certainly for Edge, although GM does not have exact competition.

And yes, even Escape and Fusion, and soon, that much more with new Fusion.

[oldshurst442]

Did you just compare a Fusion Titanium to a Buick Regal?

 

HA!

 

Maybe a W-Body Regal...Even Europe's Vignale aint exactly a viable Insignia competitor. Just because its got fancy diamond leather and a cool headlight system does not put it in Regal/Insignia territory.  The Regal is waaaaay better built than a Fusion, Wings...

Slapping on leather does not make it premium...

 

 

 

And going back to the Fusion like you said, if the Fusion gets the 2.7 liter ecoboosted V6, the MKZ becomes OBSOLETE...and my conversation with you is how Lincoln may or may not be in trouble.

Edited January 9, 2016 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

 

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

 

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick.  If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

 

Verano       $21,065         ILX $27,900      S60 $34,150       (no small Lincoln)

Regal         $27,065        TLX $31,695      S80 $43,450        MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse   $31,065        RLX $54,450     (no large Volvo)    MKS $38,850

Encore       $24,065

Envision     $ ???            RDX $35,370     XC60 $36,600     MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave     $39,065         MDX $43,015    XC90 $49,800     MKT $43,210

 

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k.  If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.  

[smk4565]

Ford Titanium, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Magnesium or any other precious metals they want to call a trim level are also not luxury cars.  It still says Ford on the badge.

[Drew Dowdell]

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

 

Expedition Platinum is the equal to GMC.

Same for Explorer Platinum.

Same for Fusion Titantium with Regal.

Certainly for F-150.

Certainly for SD.

Certainly for Edge, although GM does not have exact competition.

And yes, even Escape and Fusion, and soon, that much more with new Fusion.

The Fusion Titanium is no Regal and is the same distance behind the LaCrosse as it is from Lexus ES. It's a laughable suggestion based on the current products.

No, the platinum / titanium trims on the fiesta, escape, focus, Taurus, and flex are not premium to the level of buick or Denali.

So you're left with F-series, Explorer, Expedition, and if you want me to toss you a bone, the Edge. The take rate in premium trims is **NOT** outselling Buick and GMC combined... not even just Buick and Denali combined.

[Drew Dowdell]

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand. The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln)

Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850

Encore $24,065

Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

Your sizing match ups are mostly wrong unless you're comparing some irrelevant spec like glove box room or overall length.

Measure the interiors.

Also, you're looking at 1SV models at Buick it seems. Don't ask me to explain why they do it, but buick will offer option packages on the website that are impossible to buy because they never get built. There are zero Regal 1SV cars in either 2015 or 2016 available even though the package is on the site. The base Regal is really the base turbo at $29k.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

 

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick.  If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

 

Verano       $21,065         ILX $27,900      S60 $34,150       (no small Lincoln)

Regal         $27,065        TLX $31,695      S80 $43,450        MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse   $31,065        RLX $54,450     (no large Volvo)    MKS $38,850

Encore       $24,065

Envision     $ ???            RDX $35,370     XC60 $36,600     MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave     $39,065         MDX $43,015    XC90 $49,800     MKT $43,210

 

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k.  If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.  

 

 

 

As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature. 

[smk4565]

Well rumor is Ford is planning a Taurus SHO Titanium to challenge the S-class.  It will have the 400 hp ecoboost V6, body side moldings, black ash wood grain trim on the dash and cost $93,925 with destination charge.

[Drew Dowdell]

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick.  If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

 

Verano       $21,065         ILX $27,900      S60 $34,150       (no small Lincoln)

Regal         $27,065        TLX $31,695      S80 $43,450        MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse   $31,065        RLX $54,450     (no large Volvo)    MKS $38,850

Encore       $24,065

Envision     $ ???            RDX $35,370     XC60 $36,600     MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave     $39,065         MDX $43,015    XC90 $49,800     MKT $43,210

 

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k.  If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

 

 

As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature.

Over 60% of buick sold are sold with at least the leather group, often that is the second most expensive option group on a buick below premium group. In Verano, that puts the price at.... $27k.. The transaction prices on Enclave are well over $50k.... so who cares what the enclave base price is if no one is buying them that way?

[Drew Dowdell]

I'll say that Volvo is shifting upward rapidly. The XC90 is the first of this, but if the new sedan matches it like I expect they will, they won't be second tier luxury much longer.

[smk4565]

 

 

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick.  If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

 

Verano       $21,065         ILX $27,900      S60 $34,150       (no small Lincoln)

Regal         $27,065        TLX $31,695      S80 $43,450        MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse   $31,065        RLX $54,450     (no large Volvo)    MKS $38,850

Encore       $24,065

Envision     $ ???            RDX $35,370     XC60 $36,600     MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave     $39,065         MDX $43,015    XC90 $49,800     MKT $43,210

 

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k.  If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

Your sizing match ups are mostly wrong unless you're comparing some irrelevant spec like glove box room or overall length.

Measure the interiors.

 

Those are as close as it gets with their model lines.  The Verano is actually longer than an S60 they are .3 inches in height apart, every interior dimension is within 1 inch of each other.   The ILX is marginally smaller and lighter than the Verano and S60.

 

The Regal and TLX are 0.1 inches difference in length and 0.1 inches difference in width.  The Volvo S80 is 0.8 inches longer than a TLX and 0.3 inches wider.  Those 3 cars are carbon copies of each other in size.  Front leg room, Regal 42.1 inches, TLX 42.6 inches, S80 41.9 inches.   0.7 inch difference between biggest and smallest.  Rear leg room:  Regal 37.3 inches, TLX 34.5 inches, S80 35 inches

 

The sedans line up.  None of the others have an Encore sized car so I left it blank, Envision doesn't have a price but would be XC60 and MKC and RDX size class. And I picked the 3 row SUVs from each brand.  The Enclave is the bigger than the MDX and XC90, but each are the top SUV from that brand.  I left Navigator out obviously.

[smk4565]

 

 

 

 

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand.  The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick.  If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

 

Verano       $21,065         ILX $27,900      S60 $34,150       (no small Lincoln)

Regal         $27,065        TLX $31,695      S80 $43,450        MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse   $31,065        RLX $54,450     (no large Volvo)    MKS $38,850

Encore       $24,065

Envision     $ ???            RDX $35,370     XC60 $36,600     MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave     $39,065         MDX $43,015    XC90 $49,800     MKT $43,210

 

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k.  If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

 

 

As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature.

Over 60% of buick sold are sold with at least the leather group, often that is the second most expensive option group on a buick below premium group. In Verano, that puts the price at.... $27k.. The transaction prices on Enclave are well over $50k.... so who cares what the enclave base price is if no one is buying them that way?

 

Acura doesn't sell cars with options?  An ILX with Technology Plus package is $32,900.  It is still $6k above a Verano.  I think you are dope if you spend $32,900 on a super lux Civic, but someone is buying it.  The MDX with Super-Dooper AWD, and Advance package (whatever that is) is $55,230.   I'd venture to guess most Acuras, or most any car is not sold on base model.  Go find a base model Mercedes or BMW on a dealer lot, they don't exist.  

[David]

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

[oldshurst442]

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

Yup.

 

That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America!

There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America.

Hyundai and their Genesis model.

VW with their Phaeton.

Cadillac with their Cimarron.

Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback.

 

If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face.

 

Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury...

 

Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding...

 

Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales...

 

 

The 4-series, which despite BMW being propelled in terms of growth mostly by CUVs, was the lone stalwart car nameplate to actually show gains. Although the 1/2-series were up 77%, it must be noted that they are, for all intents new entries after the 1-series was discontinued in 2014 and re-pinned the 2-series for 2015. The 3,5,6, and 7-Series, in addition to the Z4, were all down

 

 

 

 

Quite telling...

[smk4565]

If we counted Sprinter, then Mercedes won the sales crown.  Daimler has the highest ATP of all companies, even with Smart and Sprinter pulling down Mercedes.

 

Also not all Mercedes dealerships are authorized to sell Sprinter.

 

Chevy sells work trucks on the same lot as an $80,000 Corvette and no one cars.  GMC sells $24,000 Canyons next to $80,000 Yukon Denalis and no one cares.  It is a non-issue, Sprinter trucks don't harm Mercedes sales or image in anyway.  There are still Chevy-Cadillac dealerships out there, and there are work trucks feet away from a CTS-V and it doesn't matter.

 

I hope everyone realizes the CLA has an average transaction price of $37,800 and by exterior dimensions it is the size of a Civic and by interior the EPA has it has a sub-compact.  I missed the part where Chevy had a $38,000 sub-compact offering.    And the Cadillac ATS has a base price $1,235 over the CLA (and ATS has a $750 cash back offer now), so I guess Cadillac is competing with Chevy then also.

 

Perhaps Mercedes created their cheaper line to compete against Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Acura.   (and CAFE purposes)

[smk4565]

 

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

Yup.

 

That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America!

There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America.

Hyundai and their Genesis model.

VW with their Phaeton.

Cadillac with their Cimarron.

Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback.

 

If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face.

 

Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury...

 

Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding...

 

Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales...

 

 

The 4-series, which despite BMW being propelled in terms of growth mostly by CUVs, was the lone stalwart car nameplate to actually show gains. Although the 1/2-series were up 77%, it must be noted that they are, for all intents new entries after the 1-series was discontinued in 2014 and re-pinned the 2-series for 2015. The 3,5,6, and 7-Series, in addition to the Z4, were all down

 

 

 

 

Quite telling...

 

You realize 2 of the top 3 selling Mercedes model lines are GLE and E-class, which start over $50k right?  The GLS and S-class together outsell the CLA and GLA most months.  Mercedes volume is not from the bottom, it is from the middle of their line.  Mercedes is not going to fall on their face.

 

Daimler is on top of things right now, Frieghtliner has 40% market share and a 6 month waiting list for trucks.  Detroit Diesel is at max capacity and expanding to meet demand.  The commercial wing and the passenger car wing are both firing on all cylinders.

[oldshurst442]

Chevy does not pretend its a luxury make.

Nor does it sell its Corvette as a luxury sports car, in fact, Chevy revels in the fact that the Vette is a BLUE COLLAR sports car!

They sell it that way, they market it that way. The only thing that they dont do is they dont engineer it that way...

 

M-B on the other hand...

 

The C class hatch from a while back...was on par as a Cavalier...

 

The CLA, it may have a price tag of a luxury car, its too bad it aint built that way, its too bad its quality does not befit the 3 pointed star image...

The B-Class..is WORSE than the CLA...

The aforemntioned C Class hatchback...

 

Like I said...these North American "entry level luxury" cars are simply called econoboxes in Europe.

Over time, North Americans will come to a point where there is gonna be many of these entry level econoboxes on the road, new and especially old, when Average Joe North Americans will just look at these cars and call them $h!boxes...and THAT my friend, aint good for image...

 

You know how you see the ILX from Acura...well, the Integra was ALWAYS a pimped up Civic, remember how the Integra could do no wrong in the 1990s?

You wanna argue that M-B aint losing focus, just because they sell S Class sedans today?

 

It aint tomorrow that this will happen.

Remember SMK...

Hyundai is making a luxury brand. And THAT luxury brand WONT have "entry level" vehicles...

You know SMK, not losing focus M-B is?

....same sausage different length...

 

M-B is going on a path that could be quite destructive to their image...

 

Again...as an example...in 2015...

 

The Ultimate Driving Machine is relegated to keep sales quotas by selling...SUVs...

The 3,5 and 7 Series are losing market share...

 

The 7 Series was also an also ran...

However, the 5 Series and 3 Series were THE benchmark....the slow sales decline will dictate that luxury car makers WONT be looking at these anymore to size themselves up...

The Lexus IS, The Cadillac ATS/CTS...

Genesis from Hyundai...

 

Competition comes in and picks up the pace where the Germans are GONNA fail...

BMW is failing in one area...their vaunted and untouchable 3 Series is losing market share...the X3 aint...and BMW made thier name in North America with that 3 Series...

 

SMK...it happened to Cadillac.

Even in the 1980s, Cadillac outsold and out mojoed Mercedes Benz...look how they stumbled...

 

If you think M-B does not stumble even in 2015...

SMK, for every successful vehicle that M-B makes for a specific niche, M-B has at least one failure in another niche...

 

I aint gonna waste my time searching for the failures to show you, its too late in the night for that, but they do exist. And if you dont admit to it, its because you arent true to yourself...

 

If you think that what M-B is marketing to us now and it wont have any future repercussions, you are more naive than Roger Smith. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand. The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo.

While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:

Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln)

Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190

LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850

Encore $24,065

Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260

Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210

The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature.

and where does it stop? If you are going to discount certain makes then why not go further and discount certain models like the CLA, which is no more a luxury car than some of the Buicks SMK wants to criticize for the same exact thing. Edited January 9, 2016 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

Yup.

 

That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America!

There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America.

Hyundai and their Genesis model.

VW with their Phaeton.

Cadillac with their Cimarron.

Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback.

 

If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face.

 

Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury...

 

Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding...

 

Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales...

 

 

The 4-series, which despite BMW being propelled in terms of growth mostly by CUVs, was the lone stalwart car nameplate to actually show gains. Although the 1/2-series were up 77%, it must be noted that they are, for all intents new entries after the 1-series was discontinued in 2014 and re-pinned the 2-series for 2015. The 3,5,6, and 7-Series, in addition to the Z4, were all down

Quite telling...

You realize 2 of the top 3 selling Mercedes model lines are GLE and E-class, which start over $50k right?  The GLS and S-class together outsell the CLA and GLA most months.  Mercedes volume is not from the bottom, it is from the middle of their line.  Mercedes is not going to fall on their face.

 

Daimler is on top of things right now, Frieghtliner has 40% market share and a 6 month waiting list for trucks.  Detroit Diesel is at max capacity and expanding to meet demand.  The commercial wing and the passenger car wing are both firing on all cylinders.

MBs top selling vehicle, by a wide margin, was the near bottom C Class.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Well rumor is Ford is planning a Taurus SHO Titanium to challenge the S-class.  It will have the 400 hp ecoboost V6, body side moldings, black ash wood grain trim on the dash and cost $93,925 with destination charge.

That is an interesting orifice you presented that from.

Thanks for sharing.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

 

 

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

 

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined.  Easily.Congrats to BMW.

Well deserved.

Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

 

Expedition Platinum is the equal to GMC.

Same for Explorer Platinum.

Same for Fusion Titantium with Regal.

Certainly for F-150.

Certainly for SD.

Certainly for Edge, although GM does not have exact competition.

And yes, even Escape and Fusion, and soon, that much more with new Fusion.

The Fusion Titanium is no Regal and is the same distance behind the LaCrosse as it is from Lexus ES. It's a laughable suggestion based on the current products.

No, the platinum / titanium trims on the fiesta, escape, focus, Taurus, and flex are not premium to the level of buick or Denali.

So you're left with F-series, Explorer, Expedition, and if you want me to toss you a bone, the Edge. The take rate in premium trims is **NOT** outselling Buick and GMC combined... not even just Buick and Denali combined.

 

 

 

You may not believe they are direct competitors, but they absolutely are, and in many cases, even outrank with more luxury features and power, AWD, etc.  

 

For example, you absolutely can't begin to try and sell me on the Explorer Platinum being outclassed by any Buick.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Wings4Life

[smk4565]

Chevy does not pretend its a luxury make.

Nor does it sell its Corvette as a luxury sports car, in fact, Chevy revels in the fact that the Vette is a BLUE COLLAR sports car!

They sell it that way, they market it that way. The only thing that they dont do is they dont engineer it that way...

 

M-B on the other hand...

 

The C class hatch from a while back...was on par as a Cavalier...

 

The CLA, it may have a price tag of a luxury car, its too bad it aint built that way, its too bad its quality does not befit the 3 pointed star image...

The B-Class..is WORSE than the CLA...

The aforemntioned C Class hatchback...

 

Like I said...these North American "entry level luxury" cars are simply called econoboxes in Europe.

Over time, North Americans will come to a point where there is gonna be many of these entry level econoboxes on the road, new and especially old, when Average Joe North Americans will just look at these cars and call them $h!boxes...and THAT my friend, aint good for image...

 

You know how you see the ILX from Acura...well, the Integra was ALWAYS a pimped up Civic, remember how the Integra could do no wrong in the 1990s?

You wanna argue that M-B aint losing focus, just because they sell S Class sedans today?

 

It aint tomorrow that this will happen.

Remember SMK...

Hyundai is making a luxury brand. And THAT luxury brand WONT have "entry level" vehicles...

You know SMK, not losing focus M-B is?

....same sausage different length...

 

M-B is going on a path that could be quite destructive to their image...

 

Again...as an example...in 2015...

 

The Ultimate Driving Machine is relegated to keep sales quotas by selling...SUVs...

The 3,5 and 7 Series are losing market share...

 

The 7 Series was also an also ran...

However, the 5 Series and 3 Series were THE benchmark....the slow sales decline will dictate that luxury car makers WONT be looking at these anymore to size themselves up...

The Lexus IS, The Cadillac ATS/CTS...

Genesis from Hyundai...

 

Competition comes in and picks up the pace where the Germans are GONNA fail...

BMW is failing in one area...their vaunted and untouchable 3 Series is losing market share...the X3 aint...and BMW made thier name in North America with that 3 Series...

 

SMK...it happened to Cadillac.

Even in the 1980s, Cadillac outsold and out mojoed Mercedes Benz...look how they stumbled...

 

If you think M-B does not stumble even in 2015...

SMK, for every successful vehicle that M-B makes for a specific niche, M-B has at least one failure in another niche...

 

I aint gonna waste my time searching for the failures to show you, its too late in the night for that, but they do exist. And if you dont admit to it, its because you arent true to yourself...

 

If you think that what M-B is marketing to us now and it wont have any future repercussions, you are more naive than Roger Smith. 

Hyundai isn't going to rise up and take out Mercedes.  The C-class hatchback they killed 12 years ago.    The R-class was their other flop product.  They tried it, it didn't work they moved on.  You have to take some chances when you are the leader.  They took a chance on the CLS, and now there are 20 other brands that want a car that looks like a 4-door coupe, notice even the Malibu, Fusion and 200 are starting to look like 4-door coupes.

 

Let's look at BMW, when you combine 3/4-series they sold 140,609 vs 142,232 in 2014.  Not quite gloom and doom.  The 5-series was down 16% but was still the #2 seller in its segment and it is nearing the end of it's life cycle.  The 7-series was down 4.6% for the year and for a few months they were hardly selling any because of the model change over.   

 

BMW crossovers were up 15.8% though, because the market is moving toward crossovers.  The X5 was up 17% and outsold the 5-series.   So BMW traded 6,000 5-series sales, for 7,000 X5 sales that have a higher profit margin.  I think they are happy with that.

 

The 3/4-series didn't lose any market share either, their sales dropped 1.1%, the ATS and Lexus IS dropped 10%, the A4 dropped 15% and the C-class rose 15%.    The overall sedan/coupe market is shrinking as CUVs rise.

 

Only 30% of GM sales are cars, they are the most truck heavy car maker there is.  Buick's #1 seller in 2015 was the Encore, a near the bottom vehicle, the Verano, Regal and LaCrosse were down 27%, 13.5%, and 18.3% respectively.  Cadillac CTS was down 37.4% in 2015.  Sedan sales are hurting everywhere.

[smk4565]

The big similarity that the top 3 sales brands had was stability with names.  The 3-5-7 series and C-E-S class have been around 40 years, and will continue to be.  The Lexus LS was their first car, ES and GS shortly there after and they never changed names. 

 

Then look at Acura, Lincoln, Cadillac, Infiniti.  Legend and Integra die, get replaced with RSX and TL, then those die, ILX and TLX come in.  Infiniti had Q45 flagship, now a Q50 entry-level car, they had a J30, then an M56, then a Q70.   Lincoln went from Continental to LS to Zephyr to MKZ and MKS and back to Continental again.   Cadillac Deville/Seville, CTS/DTS/STS/XTS then CT6, CT5, CT3, etc.  These 4 brands keep rehashing their names every 10 years, while the top 3 have stability.

[Frisky Dingo]

 

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

Yup.

 

That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America!

There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America.

Hyundai and their Genesis model.

VW with their Phaeton.

Cadillac with their Cimarron.

Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback.

 

If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face.

 

Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury...

 

Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding...

 

Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales...

 

 

The 4-series, which despite BMW being propelled in terms of growth mostly by CUVs, was the lone stalwart car nameplate to actually show gains. Although the 1/2-series were up 77%, it must be noted that they are, for all intents new entries after the 1-series was discontinued in 2014 and re-pinned the 2-series for 2015. The 3,5,6, and 7-Series, in addition to the Z4, were all down

 

 

 

 

Quite telling...

 

 

 

Car sales in general are losing ground to SUV/CUV's. It only stand to reason a brand with several such vehicles, and many added ones, would experience a decrease in their car sales.

[Frisky Dingo]

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

 

I don't agree with this sentiment. And I don't think buyers do, either. If the dealer facility is nice and service is great, I don't care a great deal about the fact that they also sell a few work vans.

[Frisky Dingo]

Look at those gains from Land Rover and Volvo! Bravo, gents. Shame to see Jaguar struggling so much, but I think they'll do much better this year with the new F-Pace, XF, and XE.

 

BMW proves once again they are the most desired premium marque, and much of that is based on some really products. It is a double-edged sword, however, as their endless rush to fill as many niches as possible and expand their model line-up as much as possible is not a good mentality to have for a premium brand, imo. There's a point where you are just offering too many choices, many of them nonsensical; trying to appeal to too many; and compromising your core product on account of it. It has already happened some. Hopefully they can either reverse this trend, or at the very least, curtail it, and offer some fresh products to their loyal enthusiasts.

[Cmicasa the Great]

You may not believe they are direct competitors, but they absolutely are, and in many cases, even outrank with more luxury features and power, AWD, etc.  

 

For example, you absolutely can't begin to try and sell me on the Explorer Platinum being outclassed by any Buick.

 

 

 

 The Enclave outclasses it and the seriously rubs noses with the MKT.. the closest thing I can think of over at the Lincoln brand, sans the Ugliness. The thing is that I truly believe that U have not been in a Buick in the last 20 years.. U shoot off at the mouth constantly how great Ford is because it pays your paycheck. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Mercedes-Benz is not just a luxury car maker, they gave up that title when they created their cheaper lines to compete against Chevy and started to sell vans and other work and commercial related autos on the same lot as their lofty S Series as well as the rest.

 

You cannot just be a luxury maker when you have the Sprinter vans sitting only feet away.

 

 

Its not just the Sprinter. Its the CLA and GLA... seriously anyone telling me that a CLA is any better than a Cruze.. let alone a Verano needs to.. in Oldshurst fashion:

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

If we counted Sprinter, then Mercedes won the sales crown.  Daimler has the highest ATP of all companies, even with Smart and Sprinter pulling down Mercedes.

 

Also not all Mercedes dealerships are authorized to sell Sprinter.

 

Chevy sells work trucks on the same lot as an $80,000 Corvette and no one cars.  GMC sells $24,000 Canyons next to $80,000 Yukon Denalis and no one cares.  It is a non-issue, Sprinter trucks don't harm Mercedes sales or image in anyway.  There are still Chevy-Cadillac dealerships out there, and there are work trucks feet away from a CTS-V and it doesn't matter.

 

I hope everyone realizes the CLA has an average transaction price of $37,800 and by exterior dimensions it is the size of a Civic and by interior the EPA has it has a sub-compact.  I missed the part where Chevy had a $38,000 sub-compact offering.    And the Cadillac ATS has a base price $1,235 over the CLA (and ATS has a $750 cash back offer now), so I guess Cadillac is competing with Chevy then also.

 

Perhaps Mercedes created their cheaper line to compete against Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Acura.   (and CAFE purposes)

 

I kno I've been out of it for a while.. but I love pulling tidbits of beat downs I gave to Mercedes fans around the web

 

CLA sales started off with an ATP in the $38K range.. but when people realized that they were getting a "Focus with a Benz Badge" and not a C-Class replacement. Those semi-intelligent people (I say Semi, because if they were really smartthey would have bought an ATS  ) dropped that ATP down to $33,500. I expect it to continue to drop.

 

Mercedes has made an effort to bring in consumers who have tighter budgets. Its CLA-class vehicles start at roughly $31,500, below August’s average transaction price of $33,543 according to Kelley Blue Book data. Look.. I put it up in LIGHTS 

 

Also.. Chevy sells $80K Tahoes and Suburbans there too... but I didn't include them because they don't call themselves luxury despite many of their offering coming off as such. Been in a Tahoe lately.. epitome of luxury even by Range Rover standards. If U are silly enough to degrade a Tahoe buyer from the seat of your imaginary RR.. then have at it. I'm pretty sure he is more content with his purchase.. most likely going further without any real issues.. and obviously the more intelligent. Same for Escalade, and certainly YUKON owners 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature.

and where does it stop? If you are going to discount certain makes then why not go further and discount certain models like the CLA, which is no more a luxury car than some of the Buicks SMK wants to criticize for the same exact thing.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't with him. With him.. in the luxury ballgame... it would seem that sales numbers are the true relevant position to tout how luxury a brand is.. Despite the fact that luxury car sales growth.. ironically lie in and seems to be coming from bottom feeder vehicles like the CLA, GLA, and A3. With the 3/4series vs the ATS for instance.. go figure. An 8 year old could have figured it out. The answer is: The ATS sells in just two variations.. a Sedan and a coupe, while the the 3/4series has a Coupe, a Convertible, an M, a diesel, a wagon, and a Grand Turismo, hell the 4series comes in a SEDAN too.

 

Anyone with a 4th grade education might realize that YES.. ATS isn't gonna sell in 3 Series or C-Class numbers without offering more variety. Certain parties will argue that the Vert.. M.. Diesel by themselves probably only account for a small percentage of the sales.. but I'd like to point out that those numbers add up. BTW.. the Convertible alone accounts for 15% of 4series sales. I won't even mention that 3 series/C-Class have the advantage of segment loyalty.. and being in that 180-184 inch segment for 25 years tends to help. 

 

I'm perfectly happy with the Cadillac sedans not selling in 3series E-Class numbers while they are reestablishing themselves in the market place. The CTS did sell well when it was running full on.. I even once got into an argument with a guy saying that the reason why the CTS was down was strictly because of the loss of the Wagon. Some's take on it is a bit marred tho. Look at their ideas that the at the CTS WAGON was to drool over and U will possibly see that those people are not completely in tune with the market all around despite your observations. In America.. wagons are niche. The only brand that succeeds in making wagons is Subaru.. and that has more to do with those wagons being of the tallish variety.. more like CUVs. Remember them? The best selling and hottest market entity there is right now in this country.. 

 

Bringing me to:

 

The SRX. It, and the Escalade are hot sellers because they are CUV/SUVs. Lower investment is relative. Platform sharing is not and issue. The addition of the Camaro to the Alpha program will drop costs. GM will most likely add another. Omega should also get the same treatment at Chevy and Buick. A change of exotic materials to more mainstream ones at those brands would lower costs even more. The addition of the CT7 and CT8.. possibly XTs above the XT5 would take it even further