Alfa Romeo Scraps Plans For Giulia Wagon

The more I look at this car, the more strongly I feel that the Alfa lineup will never sell well. The design style is just BUTT UGLY!  

I know some of you here love it, but this product line should have stayed dead, the style is ugly IMO and I still do not see anything that would say this will be a tight quality product line.

FCA has so many pain points that need to be fixed, trying to bring back an autoline that the public went away from as it was crappy then and will probably still be crappy now.

Sergio's Money Pit is what ALFA is!

Maybe it would be a better idea to scrap Alfa altogether. 

46 minutes ago, dfelt said:

The more I look at this car, the more strongly I feel that the Alfa lineup will never sell well. The design style is just BUTT UGLY!

You are absolutely drunk. This is one of the best looking cars on the market right now, including all the sporty coupes and exotics. They NAILED the exterior design, imo.

It's not ugly and it's not beautiful; it's just another oh-so-mild variation of a dozen other vehicles already out.

NO ONE is making major market inroads (Alfa : "quadruple production") based on design alone anymore, which is the only potential left, as everyone is competitive (within segment) on specifications. Alfa has huge baggage in the U.S. that remains to be seen of it can be dropped and sell some vehicles… or not.

It's a distinctive design...the front is definitely evocative of past Alfas, and it's not the usual boring, predictable trapezoidial giant grille too many cars have today...and I like the offset front license plate instead of the usual, boring predicable centered plate.   The side profile is less distinct, showing strong BMW 3-series design cues though...how Alfa will be received in the US market is a good question, it's basically an unknown new brand to anyone under 40 or so.

U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

Like stated it is mostly not a bad looking cars but they really need to do something with the grill. I know it is traditional but today it appears as a large vagina in the front. 

Now I do not think they should scrap Alfa. But they do need to move the Voume focused to Dodge. 

Sergios plans of 400,000 global and 150,000 sales are just never going to happen even if they build a better BMW. 

Keep in mind in December Alfa sales in America doubled to a whopping 53 units. Hell 7 more cars they would have surpassed the Viper.

The SUV is a better move over a wagon but their fate is already cast here. Also slipping the Alfa under the rest of the FCA line is ill advised. One they will have quality issues. Two it will delete an already weak Alfa image. 

Alfa is much like the 200 where it really is a much better good car but it is still not a leader in segment. 

Also the image of Alfa is so much more damaged than Cadillac and we all know the work GM has to do there.

4 hours ago, Stew said:

U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

Or it could be based off of a solid history of unreliable products. Sorry, but Alfa and Fiat earned their reputations for very good reasons and it doesn't appear to have changed much. One look at its problems overseas tells me that. 

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Or it could be based off of a solid history of unreliable products. Sorry, but Alfa and Fiat earned their reputations for very good reasons and it doesn't appear to have changed much. One look at its problems overseas tells me that. 

Those were all on older FWD based platforms that have nothing to do with this one.  I haven't seen anything about this car having reliability problems and besides there is a lot more Chrysler in it than people would want you to think.  That is kind of like saying because the transmission failed on mine and my parents 92 and 96 Luminas and 2000 GTP that GM is garbage right now even though they have nothing based on that old W-Body platform.  .  

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Those were all on older FWD based platforms that have nothing to do with this one.  I haven't seen anything about this car having reliability problems and besides there is a lot more Chrysler in it than people would want you to think.  That is kind of like saying because the transmission failed on mine and my parents 92 and 96 Luminas and 2000 GTP that GM is garbage right now even though they have nothing based on that old W-Body platform.  .  

I am talking about their current crop of cars. Overall, they are just as troublesome as they were in the 70s and 80s, even if the reasons are different. FCA overall spends a lot of time at the bottom of a lot of reliability charts. 

For the record, I'm not just taking smack to talk smack about FCA. I owned my Dodge for eight years and it was the best car I've ever owned overall but I'm not so delusional about it to think that all Dodges are trouble free just because mine wasn't. They have gotten better overall, but so has the competition and that's the problem here. 

On 2/10/2017 at 1:58 PM, ccap41 said:

You are absolutely drunk. This is one of the best looking cars on the market right now, including all the sporty coupes and exotics. They NAILED the exterior design, imo.

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

9 hours ago, Stew said:

U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

Nope WRONG, I have way to much experiance with the Fiats and Alfas or the 60's - 70's and the garbage they tried to peddle that failed and forced them to withdraw. I have gone out of my way to drive them on my trips overseas and still see no difference. Same with what is being sold here now, still garbage.

Sergio should have made sure the quality of Fiat was perfect when he brought it back to the US. Failed, Alfas that are on the floor here now are not much better.

My opinion based on past and current experience with them and I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they still fail.

Way to many other products from Germany, Asian and especially the US that beats Alfa and Fiat every which way.

Every MFG has their trouble spots and models be it GM, Ford, Toyota, Mazda or FCA. 

The problem is more of the FCA products have been more trouble prone since the merger. Chrysler had their issues with some quality due to going broke just as GM did. But since the bail out GM has improved while FCA is relying on FCA engineered platforms that to me are not up to the quality that Chrysler used to make on their own. 

FCA is Debt heavy and that often leads to problems on quality. This is where they all fall down. 

The new Alfa platform has yet to prove itself yet as it is new. But many are wary as it had issues in development and was delayed due to these issues. Seeing FCA usually has more cars on the do not buy list due to quality than most from review firms they so have issues. 

GM has has issues on their large SUV models and they all ended up on the list. That tells me they have an issue with this platform. As for FCA they are having problems on multiple platforms and that is troubling and not a good sign for the new platform. Time will either clear of confirm it but I will not be shocked if they sell many that it ends up on some do not buy list. 

I see FCA about where GM was in the 90's where they do not have all the money they need for development. We know this due to Sergios insistence of a merger and that no one wants anything to do with him. If things improve they may be ok but if the quality continues as it is then they will continue to slide. 

The next couple years will be telling. 
 

My gut tells me someone comes in and takes them over or they get sold of in divisions in the next 5-10 years. 

A car is only as good as the bones or platform it is on. I have yet to see a platform from Fiat divisions that was at least as good as the others in the market. Like they would say about the Dart and 200 they were much better cars than they replaced but they were still at the back of the pack to the others

13 minutes ago, dfelt said:

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

I am an old an old Fiat 128  veteran. 

Boy the stories I can tell on that car. There was good but there was more bad then good. 

Change a timing belt at 25,000 not 26,000 or you will need a new engine. 

Rust? If the humidity was 75% it would rust. 

Cheap the doors were as flimsy as a card board box. 

Odd? Spare tire in the engine compartment. A knob that says throttle but we called it Italian cruise control as you could pull it out and run over 70 MPH.

If you ever got hit in the thing you were dead. No structure what so ever.

Electronics did work ok in this one.

We did use it as a winter car and a beater. It took a spare junk car to keep it on the road. Our wagon was from TX but the sedan from Ohio. So the Ohio car was dead at 50,000 miles but it has a lot of good mechanical parts.

The car looked good but it would not lock as we had no latch for the rear. The struts held it down.  We could leave it in down town Cleveland and no one would steal it. 

I know the cars today are build to a higher standard but with some time in a 500 you can still feel and see the cheapness of the car. Mirrors should not shake when you slam the door in a car today. 

Oh, no! Please excuse me while I go cry in the corner. 

22 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Oh, no! Please excuse me while I go cry in the corner. 

• Why did you just pay full sticker price for a Fiat? 

1 minute ago, hyperv6 said:

• Why did you just pay full sticker price for a Fiat? 

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. 

27 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. 

What?  Not even the Fiat Rebadge Mazda?

2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. 

Smart comment!

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

What?  Not even the Fiat Rebadge Mazda?

Trust me if there is a way to screw up a Miata Fiat will find a way.

Let face it the Italians can style some of the best cars but the new Spider is not a real looker.

14 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Smart comment!

Trust me if there is a way to screw up a Miata Fiat will find a way.

Let face it the Italians can style some of the best cars but the new Spider is not a real looker.

 So True!

Oh that string of comments rite there PURE genius, very well did, much laughs, sir yessirs!!

On 2/11/2017 at 2:54 PM, surreal1272 said:

I am talking about their current crop of cars. Overall, they are just as troublesome as they were in the 70s and 80s, even if the reasons are different. FCA overall spends a lot of time at the bottom of a lot of reliability charts. 

 

For the record, I'm not just taking smack to talk smack about FCA. I owned my Dodge for eight years and it was the best car I've ever owned overall but I'm not so delusional about it to think that all Dodges are trouble free just because mine wasn't. They have gotten better overall, but so has the competition and that's the problem here. 

No company has all trouble free cars, but the bottom line is that most of the current crop of "reliability issues" are people's inability to use features and have nothing to do with reliability.  GM for example has their more recent issues as well.  IE the 14+ Silverado.  There is the vibration issue and surface rust appearing, in some cases, less than a year.  My brother's ATS with less than 10k miles has already had to have the CUE head unit replaced AND has had to have the ECU flashed for a check engine light.  I can look past the BS.  Alfa hasn't even sold enough cars to be included in quality studies here.......

On 2/11/2017 at 5:35 PM, dfelt said:

Nope WRONG, I have way to much experiance with the Fiats and Alfas or the 60's - 70's and the garbage they tried to peddle that failed and forced them to withdraw. I have gone out of my way to drive them on my trips overseas and still see no difference. Same with what is being sold here now, still garbage.

Sergio should have made sure the quality of Fiat was perfect when he brought it back to the US. Failed, Alfas that are on the floor here now are not much better.

My opinion based on past and current experience with them and I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they still fail.

Way to many other products from Germany, Asian and especially the US that beats Alfa and Fiat every which way.

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

27 minutes ago, Stew said:

No company has all trouble free cars, but the bottom line is that most of the current crop of "reliability issues" are people's inability to use features and have nothing to do with reliability.  GM for example has their more recent issues as well.  IE the 14+ Silverado.  There is the vibration issue and surface rust appearing, in some cases, less than a year.  My brother's ATS with less than 10k miles has already had to have the CUE head unit replaced AND has had to have the ECU flashed for a check engine light.  I can look past the BS.  Alfa hasn't even sold enough cars to be included in quality studies here.......

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

Well of course every make has had it garbage years and yes the 60s and 70s were unkind to quite a few of them. The problem with Fiat/Alfa (leaving their domestic side out of this) is that they never stopped being garbage. They ran out of this country the first time because their cars were bigger piles of dung than the other dung of the 60s and 70s. It's not even debatable. Sorry and again I'm not picking on them "just because". I'm picking on them because I understand their history and saw those piles up close (namely Alfa Spyders and Fiat XTs) and evidently it has taken on a new form called the 500. They have garbage resale value for a reason. No offense but no one will change my mind on Fiat ever.

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Well of course every make has had it garbage years and yes the 60s and 70s were unkind to quite a few of them. The problem with Fiat/Alfa (leaving their domestic side out of this) is that they never stopped being garbage. They ran out of this country the first time because their cars were bigger piles of dung than the other dung of the 60s and 70s. It's not even debatable. Sorry and again I'm not picking on them "just because". I'm picking on them because I understand their history and saw those piles up close (namely Alfa Spyders and Fiat XTs) and evidently it has taken on a new form called the 500. They have garbage resale value for a reason. No offense but no one will change my mind on Fiat ever.

There is still no reason to call the entire platform junk as it was actually co-designed for the entire brand.  The Engines are the new Chrysler turbo 4, and the transmissions still the venerable ZF 8 speed.  The only worry is the turbo 6 which has to be putting out a ton of boost with it's small displacement to be putting out the HP it does.   And this is so different from those old cars in form, shape, and even drive wheels it is hard for me to not give it a chanc3e.  Like I said, it is like me never buying a GM being of transmission issues in my old W-bodies or the front end failures in my old B-bodies.  Simply another example of the hypocrisy of blasting 1 brand yet making excuses for another so what is bad for one isn't for the other.  I am pretty sure those W-bodies were built well after Alfa had left the US......

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:30 PM, dfelt said:

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

7 minutes ago, Stew said:

There is still no reason to call the entire platform junk as it was actually co-designed for the entire brand.  The Engines are the new Chrysler turbo 4, and the transmissions still the venerable ZF 8 speed.  The only worry is the turbo 6 which has to be putting out a ton of boost with it's small displacement to be putting out the HP it does.   And this is so different from those old cars in form, shape, and even drive wheels it is hard for me to not give it a chanc3e.  Like I said, it is like me never buying a GM being of transmission issues in my old W-bodies or the front end failures in my old B-bodies.  Simply another example of the hypocrisy of blasting 1 brand yet making excuses for another so what is bad for one isn't for the other.  I am pretty sure those W-bodies were built well after Alfa had left the US......

For the record I am only referring to Alfa and Fiat and regardless of what parts they are sharing, it is still being run by company with an entire line of unreliable cars with horrible resale. Sorry but the numbers and the reports don't lie (And no I am not talking about that rag known as consumer reports). And using one bad GM tranny vs. decades of Fiat garbage is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. GM had their issues but it is not even close to comparable to what Fiat and Alfa had going on. In short, it was crap then and it is crap now (again, speaking of Fiat and Alfa only here).

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

For the record I am only referring to Alfa and Fiat and regardless of what parts they are sharing, it is still being run by company with an entire line of unreliable cars with horrible resale. Sorry but the numbers and the reports don't lie (And no I am not talking about that rag known as consumer reports). And using one bad GM tranny vs. decades of Fiat garbage is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. GM had their issues but it is not even close to comparable to what Fiat and Alfa had going on. In short, it was crap then and it is crap now (again, speaking of Fiat and Alfa only here).

LMAO, that is just my example of personal experience.  The fact is for the most part GM had a lo of garbage straight up into the 00s as did Ford.  Again, you show my point of making excuses for brand A just to chastise brand B. 

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

You know me, i am crazy enough to give Jag a try or Alfa, at least if I am not looking at the top model.   I have developed a certain love for the new C class coupe myself and love the AMG versions.  I am, of course, wildly smitten with the ATS coupe, even with it's issues.  I am also starting to grow into the new A5/S5, though I think the first gen still has a nicer exterior. 

41 minutes ago, Stew said:

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

I agree that everyone was building less than stellar quality auto's, Fiat just built the worse there was and that led to them tucking tail and running out of the country leaving many people with worthless auto's and a useless warranty.

My dad had an auto repair shop. #1 auto for engine replacement was Fiats and the biggest request was to put in something anything that was reasonable price and better quality than the Fiat powertrain.

#2 was conversions of American so called Diesel engines, really just a converted gas engine to diesel and terrible. 

No matter what, I helped my dad do many of these engine swaps and of course he put my two older sister and I through College doing this kind of work.

End result is anyone with any real history and experience with FIAT knows they are far below the rest of the auto industry. As such FIAT should have planned for a flawless auto introduction in the US. 

They Did Not and as such we have the current crap round 2 that I expect will eventually see Fiat / Alfa leaving the US market in the future.

30 minutes ago, Stew said:

LMAO, that is just my example of personal experience.  The fact is for the most part GM had a lo of garbage straight up into the 00s as did Ford.  Again, you show my point of making excuses for brand A just to chastise brand B. 

You know me, i am crazy enough to give Jag a try or Alfa, at least if I am not looking at the top model.   I have developed a certain love for the new C class coupe myself and love the AMG versions.  I am, of course, wildly smitten with the ATS coupe, even with it's issues.  I am also starting to grow into the new A5/S5, though I think the first gen still has a nicer exterior. 

Umm no. The difference in what you are saying and what I'm saying is quite simple actually. The ENTIRE Fiat/Alfa line was garbage than and is garbage today. That cannot be said about GM, Ford, or Chrysler for that matter. Sorry you have a blindness to them but I am not going to sugarcoat the many issues with Fiat or Alfa and there are many. 

The truth is Italian cars in general have been sub part for decades. Since WWII they were cheap and quirky.

Even the Ferrari for too many years have suffered rust issues and the dreaded 30,000 mile overhaul. Most models are sold before that as the thrill is gone and they do not want to spend that much money changing belts and ball joints. The new models are much better but still have many very expensive things that need done that most normal cars do not need.

I almost bought a Dino once. It was only $15K and no one wanted it. But the fear of rust and quality issues kept me out of it.  Smart move back in 1985. Now today they are worth $500K. LOL!  Who would have ever knew that the car everyone hated would become the car everyone wants today. 

English cars only got better with the influx of German MFGs. French are still an acquired taste. Good diesels but ugly and rusty cars.  Germans solid and durable but some odd engineering at BMW at times and at times cold soulless feel.

They all have their good and bad but with Italian cars styling was always great as was sound but quality was never a thing they were known for even years ago.

Lambo only got better under VW.

46 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

Jaguar frustrates me to no end. They make some of the most beautiful cars on the road today but that reliability (and maintenance issues in general like overpriced parts) makes me run for the hills, never to return. 

As for GM cars they did have many issues from 1973-2005. But for their most part they were cheap to repair and always would start. The paint may have fallen off and the body may have rusted but they would always run.

Years ago the Vega was a prime beater car as it may have rusted and used oil but it always would run and you could fix it for $20.

Guys in school would just save the used oil from oil changes to put in as why buy it if it is going to burn.

Along with The Fiat we had a Vega and a Sunbeam Alpine. The Vega had them all covered for durability. It did everything wrong but it always got there.

The Sunbeam never had much oil pressure but it never blew up. Rust and electrical were issues. Lucas the prince of darkness.

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Jaguar frustrates me to no end. They make some of the most beautiful cars on the road today but that reliability (and maintenance issues in general like overpriced parts) makes me run for the hills, never to return. 

Jag has improved under Ford and the new owners but they are over priced and still have some nagging issues that should not be. I have a friend at work with one and he is over 100K miles now. That would have been unheard of years ago. But he can work on it himself so while parts are not cheap he can save on the labor.

We had a 76 Jag sedan that was never reliable till it received a 4287 Pontiac V8 in place of the V12 that kept dropping valve seats. Rust was not an issue due to coming from TX. Note it was faster with the Pontiac.

I'm sure someone lookng at the Alfa's of today, like this, are ones looking for the experience.

Tesla's have shown to not be as sturdily built as they could be, but the experience alone sells the cars. Does Alfa has the brand?

I'm sure there is some mystique in Alfa, and the Quadrifoglio is one sexy tomato. But I can't help but feel...why not Quadriofoglio all the things? 

I'm sure every quadriofoglio they make will sell. Yet I think they will struggle to move the tame models off the lot. It's just the Italian way I think. Italian cars are all about being exotic. Who wants the bland non-sexy tomato version? Not many. 

I could see considering an Alfa for a lease for a few years instead of the more predictable BMW 3-series if I were in the compact premium  niche..something different and distinctive...wouldn't want one after out of warranty, of course.

I expect the Quad's to have epic resales, since they just don't sell that many of them. 

I think Alfa could do a much better job being a brand like Porsche, which sells it's mystique and pedigree (even in trucklets like Cayenne and Stelvio) than a brand with volume sales ambitions like BMW, Mercedes. And then I would not scoff at the idea of escalation of commitment by Fiat.

Though like a solid majority of Porche's sales are Cayenne + Macan + Panamera, but Stelvio is supposed to annihilate Giulia sales too.