2019 Genesis G70 To Start From $35,895

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

My response was that when I first read this and I am very excited by the cost per features of this car, but the first thing it reminded me of was an MB CLA when I looked at it.

I do think that the Korean brands tend to take heavily from the Germans in their style. The coupe sedan look is just so blah as MB especially seems to make all their cars look the same.

Genesis is designed by former Audi designer Peter Schreyer.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

This could be competition for Cadillac but I think more so Acura or Infiniti.  Really the luxury segment has 2 segments, German: Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, (Rolls, Bentley, Lambo under German control too) and those that want discount Luxury and are not paying German pricing, this is where Cadillac, Infiniti and Genesis come in.  

But the previous 2 Genesis cars that undercut the competition way more in price than a G70 aren’t selling at all.  The G90 is like 60% the price of an S-class and doesn’t sell, so how is pricing a G70 at 90% of a C-class make any sense?  G70 might be a decent car but it doesn’t have enough motor to stand out and the interior still looks weak to me, like worse than the ATS which is dated and has a bad interior. 

OK, so just truly show your bias that German is superior luxury to American or Asian. Yet I will continue to disagree with you. MB has some great stuff and I take nothing away from them, yet they build a ton of crapy plastic overpriced garbage. Cadillac is every bit their competitor. 

Badge snobs especially in the asian rim is Huge. MB out Marketed Cadillac no if's, and's or Butt's about it. Cadillac marketing SUCKS! Engineering, they are on par and in some places better than MB.

I really like this car and 36k sounds fairly reasonable as well.

19 hours ago, dfelt said:

Is that a Rebadge of the MB CLA?

 

Not the same size car to even rebadge. 

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

OK, so just truly show your bias that German is superior luxury to American or Asian. Yet I will continue to disagree with you. MB has some great stuff and I take nothing away from them, yet they build a ton of crapy plastic overpriced garbage. Cadillac is every bit their competitor. 

Badge snobs especially in the asian rim is Huge. MB out Marketed Cadillac no if's, and's or Butt's about it. Cadillac marketing SUCKS! Engineering, they are on par and in some places better than MB.

Do you know how many 500 hp cars are made by Acura, Infiniti, Lexus and Genesis combined?  1, the Acura NSX.  Mercedes has 25 models with 500+ hp, BMW and Audi have many, even Alfa Romeo has 2.  There is zero performance happening at The Japanese luxury brands and most of those “luxury” products are built on an Accord or Camry platform.

In China the top 3 luxury brands are Audi, Mercedes, BMW and I don’t even know who is 4th but they are far behind.  The Asians can’t even sell luxury cars in the biggest market in Asia.

No one, particularly not the Chinese, care about 500hp in terms of sales.  They make such a tiny segment of the sales chart.  Someone leasing a 201hp CLA isn't doing it just because there is some 500hp E-class being built for almost no one to buy. 

Also... Mercedes doesn't have 25 models total... they have 14 at best, not counting their vans. They don't get to quadruple count cars just because it comes in a couple of different door counts. 

Not counting vans, the only way you get to 25 is by counting cars like the C-Class and E-Class 4 times.

C-Class, C-Class Hybrid, C-Class Coupe, C-Class Cabrio. 

E-Class Sedan, E-Class Wagon, E-Class Coupe, E-Class Cabrio

Doing that, I count a total of 27 vehicles at MB USA (again, not counting the vans), but that is cheating.

Without double/triple/quadruple counting, it's 14 models total.

MB isn't alone in this kind of cheating... BMW likes to count every variant as a "model".  No, the 320i, 335i, 340i, M3, and 435i and grand turisimo and wagon and convertible and blah blah blah are not umpteen different models.... It's the 3 series. Done.

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Asians can’t even sell luxury cars in the biggest market in Asia.

Also, please tell me why you continue to demonstrate this extreme ignorance of the Asian market even though you have been taught why this is the case. There is a huge HUGE social stigma in China against buying Japanese products. The Chinese are holding a grudge. 

$44,795 for the upgraded engine vs the competition:

340i - $48,950

C43 - $53,400

S4 - $51,400

Q50 3.0T - $38,300

TLX 3.5L - $36,200

ATS 3.6L - $45,890

Ya know, just for sh!ts. 

Horsepower =/= luxury. 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

My response was that when I first read this and I am very excited by the cost per features of this car, but the first thing it reminded me of was an MB CLA when I looked at it.

I do think that the Korean brands tend to take heavily from the Germans in their style. The coupe sedan look is just so blah as MB especially seems to make all their cars look the same.

The proportions are quite different...the CLA has a short a-pillar to front axle distance, indicative of the weak FWD/transverse engine platform, while the G70 has a proper RWD platform w/ the longer a-pillar to front axle distance..

@smk4565

Just for fun from the latest Car and Driver Lightning lap:

2018 Audi RS5 ($91k, 444hp) - 3:03.9

2017 Audi RS3 ($61.7k, 400hp) - 3:05.6

2018 Honda Civic Type R ( $35.6k, 306hp) - 3:03.9

Boy, did these German cars showed Asians how to do things ...

Horsepower doesn't equal being fast either.

18 minutes ago, ykX said:

@smk4565

Just for fun from the latest Car and Driver Lightning lap:

2018 Audi RS5 ($91k, 444hp) - 3:03.9

2017 Audi RS3 ($61.7k, 400hp) - 3:05.6

2018 Honda Civic Type R ( $35.6k, 306hp) - 3:03.9

Boy, did these German cars showed Asians how to do things ...

Horsepower doesn't equal being fast either.

I want to HAHA, Upvote, and Thanks for this one....

On that lightning lap, the pedestrian Accord 2.0T nothing special about it wasn't even that far behind the RS3

2 hours ago, ykX said:

@smk4565

Just for fun from the latest Car and Driver Lightning lap:

2018 Audi RS5 ($91k, 444hp) - 3:03.9

2017 Audi RS3 ($61.7k, 400hp) - 3:05.6

2018 Honda Civic Type R ( $35.6k, 306hp) - 3:03.9

Boy, did these German cars showed Asians how to do things ...

Horsepower doesn't equal being fast either.

Well a Mercedes SUV did it in 3:01.7 so maybe those so called "sports cars" just aren't that well engineered.    And the Civic Type R was the fastest Asian car in the test, and it lost to an SUV.  And a German car set the fastest lap ever, which is the same car that holds the Nurburgring record. 

And I know China doesn't crave performance, but they do like luxury, and they like those interiors put out by Audi and Mercedes it seems based on the sales charts.

Given Japan's occupation of China (and other wartime atrocities), Chinese customers are right to be wary of buying anything Japanese.  Indeed, I wonder why Toyota and Honda and Nissan sell any cars in China in the first place.

As for the Genesis G70, that car (along with the Kia Stinger) are simply the second-generation Hyundai Genesis coupe (with more and better features).  Badge snobs will always buy German because they wish to impress their friends (and some of them like German cars).  But the notion that German cars are perfect and all others tremble is simply not true at all.  If that were true, then why do Lexus and Infiniti exist at all?  Why has Cadillac survived from its cratering of 20-30 years ago to its current rise up the respect and sales charts?  If German cars were so perfect and completely dominated luxury sales, then why do Lincoln (barely) and Acura hang on for dear life?  Multiple luxury marques would be as dead as Oldsmobile if that were true.

The Nazis committed awful atrocities and yet German cars are the top selling luxury cars in England, USA, EU, China, etc.  

In the luxury world badge does matter.  As far as the G70 goes, it looks a lot like a 2014  3-Series  and there seems to be a lot of Hyundai in that car.  What is going to make this car sell at BMW prices?  The other Genesis cars are dying on the sales charts and they priced low in their segments.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

In the luxury world badge does matter.  As far as the G70 goes, it looks a lot like a 2014  3-Series  and there seems to be a lot of Hyundai in that car.  What is going to make this car sell at BMW prices?  The other Genesis cars are dying on the sales charts and they priced low in their segments.

I have to agree with SMK on the badge thing. Genesis really doesn't have the cache as Audi, BMW, Mercedes.. But I need to point out that Genesis has only been around for a few years now. It takes time for an image to be built.

This isn't being help by the mess the brand finds itself in at the moment as they're to cut down the number of dealers in the U.S. to help try to make the brans more exclusive.

Quote

Currently, 850 Hyundai retailers are licensed to sell Genesis, but that is expected to drop to about 400 once the herd is culled over the next six months. Even that doesn’t go far enough to perfectly position the brand for success, executives say, and the network is projected to shrink further in coming years.

“Four hundred is still higher than what is ideal,” admits Genesis Executive Director Erwin Raphael, on hand here for a media backgrounder on the new G70 sport sedan, the smallest and most nimble of the cars in the Genesis lineup.

“I think (ultimately) that will come down,” he adds, noting that given expected volumes, some of those remaining dealers will not be able to operate profitably. “It just doesn’t compute to 400.”

Wards Auto, September 7th

And to explain why Genesis hasn't doing so well in the sales charts in the past couple of months,

Quote

So far this year, U.S. retailers have had to grit their teeth through the tough transitionary period. Genesis sales plummeted sharply after imports were halted in March as the automaker looked to clear inventories ahead of the relaunch. Raphael says there now is a less-than 30-day supply of cars on hand. In August, Genesis sales totaled only 613 units, and through the first eight months volume reached just 8,480 units, down 36.4% from like-2017, according to Wards Intelligence data.

Only dealers who re-up their franchise agreements will receive ʼ19 models, with shipments expected to begin to a handful of retailers this month, when Raphael says the brand’s sales should begin to rebound.

Emphasis mine

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Nazis committed awful atrocities and yet German cars are the top selling luxury cars in England, USA, EU, China, etc.  

In the luxury world badge does matter.  As far as the G70 goes, it looks a lot like a 2014  3-Series  and there seems to be a lot of Hyundai in that car.  What is going to make this car sell at BMW prices?  The other Genesis cars are dying on the sales charts and they priced low in their segments.

Ignoring the upper 1/10th of 1% that does not care about anything other than a badge, many rich people are very frugal and will see the value in this Mercedes knock off coupe 4 door sedan. The rest below are rich wanna bees that worry about the badge for how they are looked at by others.

Over all, I think Genesis could make a very competitive product to the high cost high repair of MB and BMW products!

On 9/22/2018 at 11:34 PM, smk4565 said:

 As far as the G70 goes, it looks a lot like a 2014  3-Series

How exactly does this look anything like a 2014 3-Series? 

21 hours ago, dfelt said:

Ignoring the upper 1/10th of 1% that does not care about anything other than a badge, many rich people are very frugal and will see the value in this Mercedes knock off coupe 4 door sedan. The rest below are rich wanna bees that worry about the badge for how they are looked at by others.

Over all, I think Genesis could make a very competitive product to the high cost high repair of MB and BMW products!

Completely disagree on how few people are badge snobs. I'd argue that most people are badge snobs, in general. Anybody making 50k can afford a German luxury car and that's why there are 3/C/4 sold. People buy Apple products for status, Coach/Michael Kors purses for status, Beats headphones for status... They're all overpriced for what they are but they're also all high quality products but not necessarily the best for the money. 

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

How exactly does this look anything like a 2014 3-Series? 

It has 4 doors and 4 tires and RWD proportions, hence the resemblance..

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Completely disagree on how few people are badge snobs. I'd argue that most people are badge snobs, in general. Anybody making 50k can afford a German luxury car and that's why there are 3/C/4 sold. People buy Apple products for status, Coach/Michael Kors purses for status, Beats headphones for status... They're all overpriced for what they are but they're also all high quality products but not necessarily the best for the money. 

I agree, a lot of people are very badge snobs one way or another.

6 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

It has 4 doors and 4 tires and RWD proportions, hence the resemblance..

LOL, right?!? Nothing outside of what you just said looks like a 3-Series. 

13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

LOL, right?!? Nothing outside of what you just said looks like a 3-Series. 

Yeah, doesn't even have a Hoffmeister kink, which the Q50, Jag XE and Alfa Romeo Guilia have...their greenhouses definitely have a BMW resemblance in profile.  About the only of it's competitors does the G70 has a similar rear door trailing upper edge to is the Lexus IS--the IS has a pointier C-curve, the G70 is softer.

The G70 front does has a resemblance to Audi, but differs in the details.

I can't tell which is which. 

Four 3-Series.

43 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Completely disagree on how few people are badge snobs. I'd argue that most people are badge snobs, in general. Anybody making 50k can afford a German luxury car and that's why there are 3/C/4 sold. People buy Apple products for status, Coach/Michael Kors purses for status, Beats headphones for status... They're all overpriced for what they are but they're also all high quality products but not necessarily the best for the money. 

Morning CCAP41, I think you missed my point, you are right and I agree that there are many Badge Snobs out there of people making 50K a year. Yet I have met many people that make $250,000 year and up especially in the high tech industry that are frugal and drive Subaru, Chevrolet, Jeeps, etc. Yet they choose to save their money, travel and do other things than spend it on a luxury auto.

I could do that, but I love Road trips and want to get there as comfortable as possible. For that reason, I have my Escalade ESV. The ultimate comfy road trip auto we have today since there are no real full size large sedans.

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I can't tell which is which. 

 

Four 3-Series.

THANK YOU, that is a great comparison. Though I would add volvo since they have their own version of Thors hammer lights. 

Brands have been a thing for over a century.  Badge snobbery is simply an extension of brand loyalty. 

The Genesis line may well be the steal of the luxury market, but most people will not see the value of near-MB/BMW/Audi for Buick/Acura pricing.  A LOT of people still see the badge and still think as if it were 1999 or at least 2009.  The problem is simple: NO body gets a second chance to make a first impression.  Period.  If Hyundai were smart, they would have studied how Toyota turned their JDM flagship into the Lexus LS400 and sold it here in 1990 and followed that formula.  If Hyundai were really smart, the Genesis G90 would have been here first and then the G80 and G70 with no cheap Hyundai sedans to mess with our pretty little American heads.  This is the price for starting cheap and THEN going upmarket.