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    William Maley

    GM To Launch Two New EVs Within 18 Months, 20 Hydrogen and EVs By 2023

      A mix of electric and hydrogen vehicles


    General Motors is the latest automaker that is preparing for an emissions-free future. Today at GM's technical center in Warren, MI, the company announced plans to introduce 20 electric and hydrogen vehicles by 2023. The first two models of this plan will launch in the next 18 months and will be "based off learnings" from the Chevrolet Bolt.

    “General Motors believes in an all-electric future. Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain in a statement.

    Those who were at the technical center got a preview of three clay models featuring the next-generation electric powertrain - a Buick crossover (Encore replacement?), Cadillac wagon, and a pod-looking vehicle.

    GM is also working on building out vehicles using hydrogen powertrains.

    "General Motors believes in an all-electric future... Our electric solution cannot be 'one size fits all.' We believe you need two different flavors of electrification — battery electric and fuel cell electric."

    GM showed off SURUS (Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure) which takes the idea of the skateboard hydrogen chassis from the Hy-Wire concept and makes it quite larger - about the size of a commercial truck chassis.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Green Car Reports , Roadshow, GM
    Press Release is on Page 2


    GM Outlines All-Electric Path to Zero Emissions

    DETROIT — General Motors announced today how it is executing on a major element of its vision of a world with zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion, recently announced by GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra.

    “General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.”

    In the next 18 months, GM will introduce two new all-electric vehicles based off learnings from the Chevrolet Bolt EV. They will be the first of at least 20 new all-electric vehicles that will launch by 2023.

    Given customers' various needs, getting to a zero emissions future will require more than just battery electric technology. It will require a two-pronged approach to electrification — battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric depending on the unique requirements.

    GM also introduced SURUS — the Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure — a fuel cell powered, four-wheel steer concept vehicle on a heavy-duty truck frame that’s driven by two electric motors. With its capability and flexible architecture, SURUS could be used as a delivery vehicle, truck or even an ambulance — all emissions free.

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    Interesting, I get hedging your bet with some Hydrogen ideas, but I really doubt they will be the big win. EV is the future I see.

    Just wish GM was more aggressive here than they currently are.

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    I don't think Fuel Cells are going to catch on, car companies have tried it for 10 years now, no one wants it.  Good to see them planning a lot of EV's, I don't think the Bolt's shape or a Cadillac wagon is the way to go, but if they build sedans and crossovers those will sell.

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    I suspect that GM will build whatever form of electric vehicle that will sell.  The platforms are more important since they can theoretically switch from sedan to crossover to minivan with just a body switch at relatively low cost.

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    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't think Fuel Cells are going to catch on, car companies have tried it for 10 years now, no one wants it.  Good to see them planning a lot of EV's, I don't think the Bolt's shape or a Cadillac wagon is the way to go, but if they build sedans and crossovers those will sell.

    fuel cells, "HCCI"... we'll see about the 2nd from Mazda, hopefully "soon" in production(2019 model)

    Riv, yeah, if the "powertrain" can be modular, just pull it out if it's a flop and and change it to the other version...

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    Pretty sure this was new Tesla did not want to hear...

    That said- While I love the idea- I'm not sure we as a country are ready for the demand (power) just yet.

    Now, if we can get more solar into folks homes to power their cars/trucks, it would really help....

    If I were to get a Bolt, I would want to charge off solar power.......

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    10 hours ago, daves87rs said:

    Pretty sure this was new Tesla did not want to hear...

    That said- While I love the idea- I'm not sure we as a country are ready for the demand (power) just yet.

    Now, if we can get more solar into folks homes to power their cars/trucks, it would really help....

    If I were to get a Bolt, I would want to charge off solar power.......

    West coast is ready and the rest will catch up.

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    10 hours ago, dfelt said:

    West coast is ready and the rest will catch up.

    Hope you're right my friend....:)

    Though they are starting to update the power grid around here....so hoping!

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    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

    First public interest is not weak, as has been stated here by many, the chicken or egg issue in regards to charging and auto options has always been the problem. Many are sitting on the side lines waiting to see what new options they get and many options are coming.

    With this, I see Autoblog did a comparison of sales between the Bolt and Volt and find that many customers prefer the CUV Bolt over the Volt.

    Autoblog story

    Bolt-Volt Sales Comparison.jpg

    Nissan Leaf is also showing the same sales increase for EV's over Hybrids. 

    Like everything and just like ICE in the Early 1900's, those that are willing to adjust their habits are willing to take the ease and savings of owning an EV and charging at their own house or work place and as the Gas Stations become Charging stations with XFC or Xtreme Fast Chargers (Level 4) that gives 300 miles of charge in less than 15 min, we will see habits change on those that are more set in their ways about changing.

    Cart before the Horse maybe, maybe not, clearly I expect you to be one of the last to change over if ever to EV's, yet the bulk of the public will change over in the next 15-20 years as the country changes with the rest of the world regardless of if you believe in Climate change or not. 

    Many are wanting a healthier place to live for themselves, their children and the future of the planet.

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    8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

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    27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.  I think that is why there is huge demand for the Model 3, it is a normal sedan, plus Tesla is gotta have brand.

    Plug in hybrids are a stop gap product, in 10 years the batteries will have 300 mile range and recharge in 10 minutes and weigh less than they do now, and at that point why bother with a plug in.  

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    34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.  I think that is why there is huge demand for the Model 3, it is a normal sedan, plus Tesla is gotta have brand.

    Plug in hybrids are a stop gap product, in 10 years the batteries will have 300 mile range and recharge in 10 minutes and weigh less than they do now, and at that point why bother with a plug in.  

    Not just a stop-gap. They are the stepping stone.  They help create demand for the plug-in infrastructure that is currently lacking. 

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    Had to reread the press release and realized that GM is going to invest in the charging network it sounds like here in the US after stating they would be helping with investing in the XFC system in Europe.

    Fletcher said GM is planning to introduce the new vehicles in key, emerging segments. She also added that GM will help with "accelerating" the deployment of rapid-charging stations for its customers. There are currently more than 1,100 available publicly to GM customers in the United States. She declined to provide further details, citing more details "to come soon."

    So I take this as a positive sign that GM will help with the build out of the charging network and I hope in the details to come that it is all based on XFC systems.

    XFC = Xtreme Fast Charging has two levels, first one is a 350 Volt system. Second level is the one Porsche is pushing the 800 Volt system. Both can charge on par with gas dispensing.

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    5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    7 hours ago, FAPTurbo said:

    who'd be the bigger horse's ass in that situation?

    I believe that would be your mother.

    Edited by ocnblu
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    7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.

    This theory doesn't come CLOSE to being borne out by the sales numbers.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    I believe that would be your mother.

    All all three of those cars you mention also have very short ranges compared to cars like the Bolt. It’s not hard to figure out the problem there and it has jack squat to do with looks, in this case. 

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    6 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    All all three of those cars you mention also have very short ranges compared to cars like the Bolt. It’s not hard to figure out the problem there and it has jack squat to do with looks, in this case. 

    One of Drew's apologies for weak electric sales penetration was odd appearance of the big players.  So I met him at that juncture.

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    13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    You just mentioned 3 compliance auto's that are only sold in select states and not available nation wide. On top of that the 500e was killed off. So the argument is not silly it is valid that Drew posted. There is little choice at this time other than Leaf or Bolt.

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    4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    One of Drew's apologies for weak electric sales penetration was odd appearance of the big players.  So I met him at that juncture.

    Except at that juncture, it is not an apples to apples comparison. 

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    13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    I believe that would be your mother.

    E-Golf - Range 112 miles, starting price $30k, $11k more than a base Golf

    Focus Electric - Range 118 miles city / 96 miles highway, starting price $29k, however, Ford is giving them away with $10k worth of incentives right now

    Fiat 500E - Range 87 miles, starting price $32,600 and only sold in California

    All of those fit in classification #2 of "usable range", "Normal looking", "substantially more expensive than platform mates". 

    Range is still a factor. Anything between 40 miles and 100 miles I consider usable, but not great. Anything over 200 will be able to suit most typical drivers, even if they don't realize it yet.   The Volt gets around the range issue by having the regenerator, it looks like a fancy Cruze, but it is still rather pricey compared to a Cruze.  The three you mentioned still have range anxiety issues being lower than the 200 mile mark. 

    The Bolt is the first in this price class to get over 200 miles to a charge.... my argument is that it would sell even better if it looked more like a normal car instead of an egg.  I personally don't think it looks bad, but I don't think it has visual appeal to the mass market. Bolt powertrain in a Malibu at only a slight premium over an LT model (say something around like the price premium of buying a diesel), and you'd start to see some real movement in sales.   In my own case, I'd like a plug-in, but there are none yet that meet the requirements within our budget.  The closest I can get right now is the new XC60 PHEV. 

    SMART is just dumb anyway, the sales there have been tanking for years and dealers who saw the opportunity to exit, did so.  If I were a Benz dealer, I wouldn't have kept SMART around absent any announcement that they were going to expand the brand into a family car brand.

    11 hours ago, balthazar said:

    This theory doesn't come CLOSE to being borne out by the sales numbers.

    There are no statistics to back up either claim since the vehicles I am referring to do not exist on the market. 

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    Interesting.

    I imagine a lot of this is platform sharing to spread the tech among the brands. So will Cadillac get the high performance EV motors (preferably in-wheel for torque-vectoring) and big, fat battery packs to power them? 

     

     

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    48 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

    Interesting.

    I imagine a lot of this is platform sharing to spread the tech among the brands. So will Cadillac get the high performance EV motors (preferably in-wheel for torque-vectoring) and big, fat battery packs to power them? 

    I certainly hope so as in-wheel hub motors with torque vectoring would make a bad ass awd EV. I can totally see this for an Escalade.

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    2 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

    Interesting.

    I imagine a lot of this is platform sharing to spread the tech among the brands. So will Cadillac get the high performance EV motors (preferably in-wheel for torque-vectoring) and big, fat battery packs to power them? 

     

     

    I would think not.  GM will be looking to reuse as much of the existing technology into other vehicles as possible.  They won't be doing in-wheel motors if the battery and other running gear for Bolt, Volt, CT6, and Malibu Hybrid are all using stuff tuned for a more traditional electric motor.  At most, you'll see a larger electric motor for heavier / more premium applications... and a dual motor setup for AWD applications if using a pure EV platform. 

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    9 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    E-Golf - Range 112 miles, starting price $30k, $11k more than a base Golf

    Focus Electric - Range 118 miles city / 96 miles highway, starting price $29k, however, Ford is giving them away with $10k worth of incentives right now

    Fiat 500E - Range 87 miles, starting price $32,600 and only sold in California

    All of those fit in classification #2 of "usable range", "Normal looking", "substantially more expensive than platform mates". 

    Range is still a factor. Anything between 40 miles and 100 miles I consider usable, but not great. Anything over 200 will be able to suit most typical drivers, even if they don't realize it yet.   The Volt gets around the range issue by having the regenerator, it looks like a fancy Cruze, but it is still rather pricey compared to a Cruze.  The three you mentioned still have range anxiety issues being lower than the 200 mile mark. 

    The Bolt is the first in this price class to get over 200 miles to a charge.... my argument is that it would sell even better if it looked more like a normal car instead of an egg.  I personally don't think it looks bad, but I don't think it has visual appeal to the mass market. Bolt powertrain in a Malibu at only a slight premium over an LT model (say something around like the price premium of buying a diesel), and you'd start to see some real movement in sales.   In my own case, I'd like a plug-in, but there are none yet that meet the requirements within our budget.  The closest I can get right now is the new XC60 PHEV. 

    SMART is just dumb anyway, the sales there have been tanking for years and dealers who saw the opportunity to exit, did so.  If I were a Benz dealer, I wouldn't have kept SMART around absent any announcement that they were going to expand the brand into a family car brand.

    There are no statistics to back up either claim since the vehicles I am referring to do not exist on the market. 

    And even with Ford GIVING them away... no takers.  Huge clue for braille users on the subject.  FCA LOSING $20k PER UNIT on 500e... GM LOSING $9k PER UNIT on Bolt... what auto exec in their right mind would support this?  It is business suicide... plain and simple.  And listen up... GM NEEDS to sell MORE HIGH PROFIT vehicles, like full size trucks and SUVs with smallblock V8 engines, to SUBSIDIZE the tiny, TINY amount of Bolts they sell... THE WHOLE THING IS HILARIOUSLY SELF DEFEATING.  And to think there are people here who think this can in any way shape or form actually work.  :roflmao:

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    10 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    There are no statistics to back up either claim since the vehicles I am referring to do not exist on the market. 

    Correct; not with the parameters you stated. But there are plug-ins in conventional sedans that are roundly rejected by the market... because this (and any) vehicle purchase is never a singular criteria.

    My point was within the field that's out there now, the Bolt is doing very well; 7 months straight of sales increases & #5 overall. I don't see it's shape holding it back so far.

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    what auto exec in their right mind would support this? 

    https://www.economist.com/news/business/21728980-its-government-developing-plan-phase-out-vehicles-powered-fossil-fuels-china-moves

     

    https://electrek.co/2017/08/15/germany-going-electric-ban-on-petrol-diesel-cars-amid-auto-industry-scandal/

     

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo

     

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/norway-to-ban-the-sale-of-all-fossil-fuel-based-cars-by-2025-and-replace-with-electric-vehicles-a7065616.html

     

    And more countries to come....

    So....even if you feel there is no consumer demand for EVs...which Im sure you could debate this quite successfully...because it APPEARS to be the case but not really...but its OK...because...

    automakers are being FORCED to change...it dont matter!!!

    You may die and never get to experience the EV...stubbornly as it may be...

    Stubborn+Donkey.jpg

    YOU being that ass in that pic there!!!

    And I get it...you would rather be Juan in that same pic trying to get that donkey to take you to work rather than you ever riding in an EV...which is absolutely fine...but I guarantee you that your kids will ONLY be buying EVs no matter how hard YOU convince them not too...

    Remember when smokers said that their right to smoke in bars, commercial flights, restaurants etc. was being violated?

    NYC2.JPG

     

    Poi-sute_boushi_jyorei_seitei-ku.jpg

     

    Well...same shyte applies here! (social pressures is where Im getting at)

    And the manufacturers have to comply because they will have NO CARS to sell (in China...largest car market) and so will go bankrupt anyway...regardless if they lose $9000 on a Bolt today!

    Just try to look a tiny wee bit further than your nose!!!

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    And even with Ford GIVING them away... no takers.  Huge clue for braille users on the subject.  FCA LOSING $20k PER UNIT on 500e... GM LOSING $9k PER UNIT on Bolt... what auto exec in their right mind would support this?  It is business suicide... plain and simple.  And listen up... GM NEEDS to sell MORE HIGH PROFIT vehicles, like full size trucks and SUVs with smallblock V8 engines, to SUBSIDIZE the tiny, TINY amount of Bolts they sell... THE WHOLE THING IS HILARIOUSLY SELF DEFEATING.  And to think there are people here who think this can in any way shape or form actually work.  :roflmao:

    It's a limited production vehicle that has better options out there now. 100 miles isn't enough range. If it had 200+ mile range, it would sell substantially better. The Bolt is already beating sales expectations. Are you trying to say that a much more conventional looking Focus with similar range, performance, and price to the Bolt wouldn't sell better? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.

    33 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Correct; not with the parameters you stated. But there are plug-ins in conventional sedans that are roundly rejected by the market... because this (and any) vehicle purchase is never a singular criteria.

    My point was within the field that's out there now, the Bolt is doing very well; 7 months straight of sales increases & #5 overall. I don't see it's shape holding it back so far.

    Few of the plug-in hybrid sedans have an EV range worth mentioning.  Volt is the best at 50, followed by Pacifica Hybrid and CT6 PHEV at 30ish.  The Euros except Volvo are in the mid-teens, Volvo gets barely over 20. 

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    Yes that is what I'm saying.  But you're throwing out hypotheticals so the point is moot.  I'm looking at factual data to support what I'm saying... without diarrhea of the mouth like ahem that one Canadian dude in here with the wadded, bloody pantie liners.  :o  ;)

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    25 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Yes that is what I'm saying.  But you're throwing out hypotheticals so the point is moot.  I'm looking at factual data to support what I'm saying... without diarrhea of the mouth like ahem that one Canadian dude in here with the wadded, bloody pantie liners.  :o  ;)

    It seems like you are the one with the...um...girlie issues...

    Your reality is not looking past your nose...

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    18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    IMO, the Bolt is completely 'normal looking' (for a stubby hatch).

    I would agree.

    I saw a new Honda Fit this afternoon on the road...and I immediately saw the Chevy Bolt in it...

    nydn-2018-honda-fit-sport-red-front-quar

    2018-Honda-Fit-rear-three-quarter-03.jpg

     

    170124_0137_chevy_764A0390-edit-640x354.

    0127-drv-bolt3-4rear.jpg?quality=70&stri

     

    Eerily alike...

     I also saw the same similarities with the Nissan Leaf...

    And the  2017 Versa Note...

    2017-nissan-versa-note-front3.jpg?qualit

    So yeah...all these little cars share the same attributes...

    The Bolt looks just like its sub-compact (CUV if you wanna go there) brethren...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    21 hours ago, balthazar said:

    IMO, the Bolt is completely 'normal looking' (for a stubby hatch).

    And we know how well stubby hatches sell...  Fiesta, Mazda 2, Accent hatchback, Yaris hatch, all cancelled or in danger of being so.  

    iM, Sonic 5 door both on life support. 

    Only the Fit and Versa seem to move any real numbers, and those are still a small fraction of the sedan counterparts.

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    7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    The Bolt is different, tho. It's got a lil lightning bolt on it. ;)

    And the Bolt has the trendy floating roof design...like the new Leaf.  The Fit and Versa have more ordinary 6-light greenhouses.

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    • Plastic cladding = off road.  Instead of killing the Sonata, they should just put plastic body cladding down the side and raise the price by $10k and call it the Sonata HD Overlander X.  Instant hit.
    • Considering a planet with 8 Billion and he sold almost 2 million cars, then he is covering .025% of the population compared to other auto companies. I think 2024 going into 2025 we will see other auto companies top Tesla. You and I are two peas in a pod as I also was up on a hill watching the implosion and thinking what a waste as it was a great building. I love the Kingdome and hate the new stadium.  Agree it was surreal to see the ship hit the support pillar and the whole building just collapse. Be interesting to see what replaces it as today bridges built like that are not allowed due to the exact nature of how it collapsed.  Yes, Tesla is a love or hate and the minimalist approach is not for everyone. I honestly have to agree with the comment @smk4565 I believe made that the touch screen only will be the future of cheap autos and switches and buttons will be the higher end autos. Interesting times we live in for sure.
    • Decent upgrade to the aging 2024 model. Nice to see they are reducing costs of the curved screen in the EVs by pushing it out across the Hyundai Family and into Kia. The one thing I do not like is all the Chrome. 🤢 🤮
    • Today at the New York International Auto Show, Hyundai unveiled an update to its little truck, the Hyundai Santa Cruz. The refresh to the exterior is relatively mild, though it features a more menacing grille with bolder verticle lines.  Updated running lights and new wheel designs add to the fresher look. Inside, there is a new steering wheel, infotainment system, and instrument panel. on upper trims, an optional panoramic curved display houses dual 12.3-inch displays for driver and entertainment. The plenty-capable powertrains carry over with either a 191-horsepower direct injected 2.5-liter 4-cylinder or a turbo-charged version of of the same engine with 281 horsepower.  The transmission for the entry-level engine is a traditional 8-speed automatic, while the turbo-charged model gets an 8-speed dual-clutch transmission. Santa Cruzes with the turbo engine gain a new tow mode for enhanced towing control.  Both powertrains are towing capable with a 3,500 lb rating for the entry engine and a stout 5,000 lb rating for the turbo models when equipped with all-wheel drive. New for 2025 is an XRT trim geared even more towards outdoor adventure. It features a trim-specific front fascia and grille, special 18-inch wheels with all-terrain tires, an increased approach angle, front tow hooks, and surround-view monitoring.    The 2025 Hyundai Santa Cruz goes on sale this summer. View full article
    • Regarding Tesla - it's either love or hate with these vehicles.  A college friend I'll be seeing when in SoCal next month has 2 of them, and I'll probably be riding in both of them - one is his sleeker S model and I forgot which the other one (that his wife drives) is.  In certain places, people have a lot of disposable income and having a Tesla goes with the landscape. Minimalist(ic) isn't necessarily bad.  We all remember the adage "less is more."  I'll vouch that the workmanship of the interior is good and I can also vouch that the overall look (including the centered everything on one display) is ugly.  I will say that EV motors are supposed to last a long time but the battery replacement is very expensive and the range is currently not that optimal. I did not like the model Y I had for less than 1 day.  Also, its exterior is mostly ugly.  That's my opinion. This isn't a discussion I want to get into.  I would much prefer a more user-friendly EV ... and not just yet. - - - - - What I was randomly going to say: I'm not sure whether I'm in shock or still feeling surreal as to what happened in Baltimore.  At first, I thought a ship just hit something on a bridge.  Then I saw the footage and that's the surreal part ... the domino-like collapse of the entire structure and the size of the ship.  I remember having to figure out the forces of either tension or compression on each member of a truss-like structure when I was in school.   A group of us sat there for about 3 or 4 hours one night - with some Mountain Dew - to work that out. I don't believe I've been on that bridge since it's on the outer beltway, but it's numbered as part of the U.S. interstate system.  From looking at the map, it is the major bridge on the entrance to/exit from Baltimore Harbor.  I hope they find the 6 individuals who were working on it fixing potholes in the middle of the night who fell down with the bridge.  The ship giving a mayday is what allowed them to shut down both approaches to the bridge just in time.   The weird thing is that it happened on March 26.  IIRC, the deliberate (domino-like) implosion of the reinforced concrete Kingdome in Seattle happened on March 26, 2000 (no rain that day) and people were sitting on slopes overlooking downtown to see that happen.  But that's how it is with planned implosions.  I went there that morning and have photos of the Kingdome's last day somewhere. https://www.seahawks.com/video/kingdome-implosion-hd It was indeed March 26, 2000.  I was one of the few who liked the Kingdome.
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