UAW to Strike General Motors Tonight

Hope they come to terms sooner rather than later on this. Glad to read that Lordstown will reopen as a battery assembly plant and the EV pickup truck will go to Detroit-Hamtrack.

Sounds like the best deal they are going to get. They better jump on it!!!

It is kind of a catch 22, because the UAW wants more for their workers, but the more they get paid the more GM is going to be motivated to automate more jobs or build more cars in China.   It is a fine balance.

I wonder how it would land if GM actually replaced their union workforce with a nonunion one.

In reading a few articles & commentary on the subject, one person claimed that the bankruptcy, 'if done properly', would have started everything at zero with the new corporation, including nullifying all union/worker contracts. Instead Gov't forced those components to be tied immediately to the new entity.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is kind of a catch 22, because the UAW wants more for their workers, but the more they get paid the more GM is going to be motivated to automate more jobs or build more cars in China.   It is a fine balance.

Try Mexico. Pretty sure GM would be dumb to test the tariffs right now.

GM is automating the the next few years UAW or not. Union knows this.....

GM and Ford need to get out of these unions. 

Toyota and Honda aren't using union labor and you don't see them with labor issues. 

Ridiculous. UAW is all about GREED. Compare them to a Socialist Gov't. and the similarities are pretty apparent. They need to be shut down for sure, but they're so political anymore with special interest groups pushing them that it would be hard. GM will just keep building on their automation, adding more robots when each one can do the job of several greedy humans.

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

In reading a few articles & commentary on the subject, one person claimed that the bankruptcy, 'if done properly', would have started everything at zero with the new corporation, including nullifying all union/worker contracts. Instead Gov't forced those components to be tied immediately to the new entity.

The BK did give GM the ability to get out of many of the expensive Legacy Healthcare costs they were enduring and to renegotiate the huge pensions. I used to work with a guy that had family retire with GM in the late 90's with six digit pensions and really good healthcare for life. Ridiculous. UAW is all about Greed more cash for the workers means more for the greedy upper mgmt. No surprise the UAW president's home was recently raided by the FBI because of several scandalous reports.   

16 hours ago, riviera74 said:

I wonder how it would land if GM actually replaced their union workforce with a nonunion one.

Does work well for the Asian brands here in the U.S., all are private company employees and they happily make much less (think I read it's around half as much) than the bloated wages of the UAW workers. $60 - 75/hr. is ridiculous unless they're a highly educated engineer, mostly unskilled laborers should never make $60+ an hr. to bolt on a door or fender. GM and Ford could be much more profitable with healthy cash flow without the UAW.

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is kind of a catch 22, because the UAW wants more for their workers, but the more they get paid the more GM is going to be motivated to automate more jobs or build more cars in China.   It is a fine balance.

I remember working for a Chevy/Cadillac dealer in '98 for a Summer job in between college during the GM shutdown UAW strike. GM said F you UAW and shut it all down. We were a huge dealer so we had plenty of inventory, but smaller dealers were calling all day everyday up and down the West Coast for trades that we had. It was something like two Suburbans for one C/K truck we had, it was nuts. It lasted 6+ months and GM lost billions in sales, but had to make a point and they did UAW finally conceded and gave GM mostly what they wanted, any smaller auto manf. would have been gone.

20 minutes ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

Does work well for the Asian brands here in the U.S., all are private company employees and they happily make much less (think I read it's around half as much) than the bloated wages of the UAW workers. $60 - 75/hr. is ridiculous unless they're a highly educated engineer, mostly unskilled laborers should never make $60+ an hr. to bolt on a door or fender. GM and Ford could be much more profitable with healthy cash flow without the UAW.

Guess I should have said the Big 2 and FCA🤔😏

GM laid out their side, showed their hand.... what is the UAW asking for that isn't in the deal?

17 hours ago, Potluck said:

GM laid out their side, showed their hand.... what is the UAW asking for that isn't in the deal?

Right, GM is using transparency to force the UAW to come to fair terms. Love the way this is being done by GM and hope all auto companies that have to deal with the corrupt greedy unions follow this road map. No need for hiding anything. Show the fair deal and let the union members tell their greedy lazy leadership to take it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/gm-strikes-dont-pack-economic-punch-they-once-did/ar-AAHqEz4?li=BBnb7Kz

I also agree that as @daves87rs stated, this is a good deal and they should jump on it as a Union strike is NOT going to have the impact on the US as they did in the 70's or 80's. Those days are over.

it seems like they're arguing over the amount of healthcare the UAW people should pay.

I read a bunch of UAW worker comments elsewhere online. In addition to the usual list of; job guarantees, safety in the workplace (not there yet after 80 years of union efforts???????????), and healthcare [the national average for worker contribution to HC is 28%, GM proposed UAW workers paying 15%] ...the VAST majority of comments solely mentioned how much Mary Barra made and how much GM made. This is always the root of the OEM / UAW head butting.

5 minutes ago, Potluck said:

it seems like they're arguing over the amount of healthcare the UAW people should pay.

The Detroit Bureau agrees with that. 

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2019/09/health-care-remains-formidable-hurdle-to-clear-in-gm-uaw-negotiations/

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I read a bunch of UAW worker comments elsewhere online. In addition to the usual list of; job guarantees, safety in the workplace (not there yet after 80 years of union efforts???????????), and healthcare [the national average for worker contribution to HC is 28%, GM proposed UAW workers paying 15%] ...the VAST majority of comments solely mentioned how much Mary Barra made and how much GM made. This is always the root of the OEM / UAW head butting.

Yup. Greedy UAW, they run it like a Socialist Gov't, take from the rich give to the poor, but when the money runs out, then what? 

Interesting report released on Healthcare average cost paid by US employees is 26%, so GM is offering a good deal and yet this same report only shows that 75% of Union Employees use the company healthcare plan.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ebs2.pdf

After looking at this report, I say GM stick to your guns as this is a good deal.

Shut them down.

Offer them their same job, same pay, same benefits they currently have back to them but all new hires things will be what they want. 

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Shut them down.

Offer them their same job, same pay, same benefits they currently have back to them but all new hires things will be what they want. 

Or you could just hire an all-new workforce.  A job is NOT a job for life.

50 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Or you could just hire an all-new workforce.  A job is NOT a job for life.

training up 50,000 people would take a looong time and really hurt quality.

52 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Or you could just hire an all-new workforce.  A job is NOT a job for life.

GM losing $90M a day per BofA just offered 2% raises on top of previous offer, but cut off Healthcare to the 50k striking picketers because UAW can offer paid COBRA. Just take the generous deal greedy UAW.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/sources-gm-offers-2percent-raises-in-uaw-contract-ends-health-care/ar-AAHqRV8?li=BBnb7Kz

Sure unions are greedy, but GM had $8 billion on net income least year, Mary Barra made $22 million.  Corporations are greedy too.

Maybe what GM should do is offer a profit share bonus, so on years like 2018 when there is an $8 billion profit, take $1 billion of that and pay to the workers.  So then the workers also have incentive to build quality product, and ensure the company does well.

32 minutes ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

GM losing $90M a day per BofA just offered 2% raises on top of previous offer, but cut off Healthcare to the 50k striking picketers because UAW can offer paid COBRA. Just take the generous deal greedy UAW.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/sources-gm-offers-2percent-raises-in-uaw-contract-ends-health-care/ar-AAHqRV8?li=BBnb7Kz

36 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

training up 50,000 people would take a looong time and really hurt quality.

GM is one of the only auto manufacturers making a nice profit right now with stock that's actually making nice dividends and the greedy UAW knows it, so they want more pay on top of already ridiculously high pay and also want the Legacy Healthcare back from pre 2009. That old Healthcare program is not gonna happen either, it's a large part of what got old GM in a BK position in '09 in the first place, along with the economic crisis and no credit available from the banks for car buyers to turn to.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Sure unions are greedy, but GM had $8 billion on net income least year, Mary Barra made $22 million.  Corporations are greedy too.

Maybe what GM should do is offer a profit share bonus, so on years like 2018 when there is an $8 billion profit, take $1 billion of that and pay to the workers.  So then the workers also have incentive to build quality product, and ensure the company does well.

Corporations need to be somewhat greedy to survive, especially when it's the UAW union we're talking about, they have always financially beat on the Big 3 (now Big 2 and FCA). Most of these union workers get somewhere in the vicinity of $35/hr., that's more than enough for what they do and GM is offering a 2% raise so it's not like they aren't trying to work something out. It's pretty clear that more of the greed leans toward the UAW top brass. My father was part of the Steel Workers Union back in the 70's and early 80's and he said unions are always very greedy and he would never be a part of one again and wasn't after '83. 

GM paid out a pretty healthy profit sharing check to the tune of $10,750 to 46,500 hourly employees in Feb. 2019, that's a pretty fat check and just shy of $500M in profits that GM handed them.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2019/02/06/gm-profit-sharing-checks-uaw-workers/2783459002/

There's a reason the president of the UAW just had his home raided by the FBI for corruption allegations. The last UAW president had a cottage built with UAW money, that's not possible without major corruption going on. 

Interesting story as the wages come out and how they average across the 3 Detroit companies with entry at 15 to 17 an hour and skilled, legacy and production making up to 36, 33 and 29 an hour. Average worker on the assembly line this year has made between 75 to 100,000 salary plus bonus for assembly line work. 

I know nurses and engineers that do not make that. UAW is well paid and they are being greedy. Intersting how the stories are showing that the UAW has a $750 million war chest to handle strikes but felt it was important to increase this so took higher dues to bring it to $850 million for this GM strike which is to set the tone for strikes against Ford and FCA.

Something stinks in the UAW Leadership.

A modest proposal: replace UAW members with nonunion labor one plant at a time instead of all at once.  Once Ford and FCA see that it is possible, they will follow suit.  All three should also ditch their union healthcare benefits entirely.

15 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Or you could just hire an all-new workforce.  A job is NOT a job for life.

Yes, but my suggestion would be a way to smooth over the transition. Plus, what Drew said is a major factor. 

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Sure unions are greedy, but GM had $8 billion on net income least year, Mary Barra made $22 million.  Corporations are greedy too.

Maybe what GM should do is offer a profit share bonus, so on years like 2018 when there is an $8 billion profit, take $1 billion of that and pay to the workers.  So then the workers also have incentive to build quality product, and ensure the company does well.

"GM claims that it is more than generous offering the average hourly employee roughly $90,000 per year, which does not include top-notch benefits."

I don't think they NEED more to do quality work. That is VERY good compensation. 

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Sure unions are greedy, but GM had $8 billion on net income least year, Mary Barra made $22 million.  Corporations are greedy too.

Maybe what GM should do is offer a profit share bonus, so on years like 2018 when there is an $8 billion profit, take $1 billion of that and pay to the workers.  So then the workers also have incentive to build quality product, and ensure the company does well.

I"m pretty sure GM already does a profit share bonus. 

If they already profit share then the UAW doesn’t really have anything to complain about.

18 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

training up 50,000 people would take a looong time and really hurt quality.

 Buy a few Korean Automated plants....problems solved!

This is the future,  good or bad.....

"That $90,000 includes overtime and fat profit-sharing checks. Last year's GM profit-sharing was about $14,000 per employee. Ford's was $7,600; FCA's was $6,000."

"CAR data said that since 2011, UAW-Detroit Three profit-sharing checks averaged about $6,600 per worker at each of the companies. That's equal to about an additional $3.18 an hour. "

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2019/09/13/uaw-contract-talks-deadline-strike-gm-ford-fca/2266631001/

Still, $90,000 before benefits. That's a lot of money for pretty damn unskilled labor. 

"It's never enough."

No wonder unions and Big Gov't get along so well.

The saying about those that don't learn from the past is going through my mind. 

I love that this stuff is all public now. It gives these POS unions so much less leverage once the public realizes these nearly skinless jobs are paying so well. 

Can GM just toss the UAW and replace them at this point?  Union support is probably near its lowest point in years.

Seems there is not much more GM can offer considering that the UAW is the best paid employees in the auto industry according to this story.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/gm-union-expectations-employees-compensation-uaw

Wonder how long this strike will go on.  🤔 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Seems there is not much more GM can offer considering that the UAW is the best paid employees in the auto industry according to this story.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/gm-union-expectations-employees-compensation-uaw

Wonder how long this strike will go on.  🤔 

It's a real mess. Something the UAW has always been good at is pissing and moaning about more money and benefits. Unions were good and needed back when the Big 3 and the Steel Mills were getting started and needed workers on short notice. Now they're just a bunch of greedy whiners who see that big Corps. like GM that have made good revenue and they think they "deserve" a larger piece of the pie, even though GM has been more than generous with fat profit sharing checks along with great pay and pretty good benefits.

They continually confuse employment with partnership.

Just heard on FNC that GM will reinstate their UAW workers Healthcare even though they have lost a $1B now because of this UAW charade. Stories out there that some striking workers are losing their cancer meds and others have to delay surgeries because GM cut off their healthcare. So then why doesn't the UAW cover them with their fat $850k worth of coffers they filled for this strike? They'd rather use the sick employees as a pawn in their chess game...just sad.   

Yeah, fck the UAW.

GM shouldn't be paying anything right now and they could point the finger right at the UAW for refusing to work out a deal and how that's harming their members. 

31 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, fck the UAW.

GM shouldn't be paying anything right now and they could point the finger right at the UAW for refusing to work out a deal and how that's harming their members. 

So when will GM smarten up and replace the strikers?  I am sure there are a lot of replacement workers who will be glad to work assembling GM vehicles for $15-17 an hour.

Not soon enough. 

I mean I understand they need quality workers and they need to be paid a fair wage and their total compensation should correlate to how successful the business is run.. but all of those criteria are already met. 

They should only really negotiate a larger percentage bonus for when GM is doing really well. They're making enough money hourly/yearly before their bonuses. If they increase everybody's wage you risk crippling the business and them moving the jobs all together because not every year is going to be booming like the last few. There will be down times and keeping wages more "in check" they can afford to keep people on board.