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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    Electrics Soar In EU while Diesel Fades

      ...in a market that continues to decline, EVs are doing well...

    The European car market as a whole has been in decline for six consecutive months as of March 2019 with 19 out of 27 markets posting declines.  March numbers were down 3.6 percent over the same month in 2018.  Looking at the first quarter of 2019 paints an even bleaker picture with only 6 countries recording growth.

    While overall demand is down, the demand for electric vehicles grows. The sales of EVs exceeded 100,000 units for the first time ever with a total of 125,400 EV and PHEVs sold.  That is an increase of 31%, mostly in Germany, Norway, Spain, and the Netherlands.  Much of that growth is attributed to the Tesla Model 3 entering the market and becoming Europe's top selling electric car.  Model 3 sales jumped from 3,747 units in February to 15,755 units in March. It was also the best selling premium mid-size car in the EU. 

    Diesel on the other hand is facing continuing losses. Registrations of new diesels have moved from 44.8 percent of all registrations in March 2017 to 31.2 percent of all registrations in March 2019. Analysts expect diesel to continue to fade as more cities put in diesel bans and stricter emissions regulations come into effect. 

    Source: Newspress.co.uk

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    THANK YOU @Drew Dowdell

    You are right Politics and even religion have a proper place when in the proper context of our Auto discussions.

    Electrics does seem to becoming the new bible standard of use in Europe and the mental adoption based on marketing and incentives to change seem to be getting people off the fence or out of the old toxic diesel and into the new cleaner age of EV's.

    Yes I understand that places that are 100% on coal produced electric are no cleaner than diesel, much like West Virgina which is still 100% coal produced electric power, yet for those places that use Hydro, wind and solar, even natural gas, so much greener, cleaner and the air smells much better.

    I think sadly the US is going to lose more of their edge to Europe and the Asian rim as they move forward government driven for a quieter cleaner driving experience.

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    6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Some people here push the limited of that by injecting unneeded political commentary into posts that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    You really want to call me out on THAT when dfelt freely injects his OPINION inappropriately of our president every chance he gets instead of sticking with facts?  You need to be neutral otherwise you are ineffective.

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    21 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    You really want to call me out on THAT when dfelt freely injects his OPINION inappropriately of our president every chance he gets instead of sticking with facts?  You need to be neutral otherwise you are ineffective.

    Righttttttttttt 🤔

    Our incompetent leadership from the White house to the senate and house that has pretty much destroyed any leadership this country had left in the world with ignorant trade policies that have hurt more than helped the average American in the last 3 years. You can hate either party in the US, but the last time we actually had solid good reaching across the isle to build a budget of living within the means and paying down debt was the 90's.

    Right, I think the buck board in your buggy needs a new nail.

    While not everyone will agree with political push in one direction or another, the end fact is that government drive of technology is what has given us some amazing better ways to drive, fly, and live in this planet that needs to be saved from toxic old ways of doing things.

    EDUCATION IS THE GREAT EQUALIZER!!!

     Without pushing for the 22nd century and embracing change that looks for the good of the whole rather than the selfishness of the individual humanity flourishes.

    Global Trade will always have drawback as nothing will ever be perfect as humans are not perfect, yet we can learn to live together in this Multi-Cultural society that can give us so much more by reaching across with best intent and listening and speaking one's mind to find a way to agree to disagree while building better products, better quality of life and enjoying the differences that can give us all a cleaner, healthier planet to live on.

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    39 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    .the end fact is that government drive of technology is what has given us some amazing better ways to drive, fly, and live in this planet that needs to be saved from toxic old ways of doing things.

    A friend just got off a flight in a new-tech electric jumbo jet. He could not stop raving how quiet and non-smelly the flight was!


    - - - - - 
    Saw this on another board (didn't check the math) :
    "
    Assume your electric vehicle has a 275 mile range and requires 6 hours to fully charge.  At an average driving speed of 60 mph, it would take about 15 hours to make a 550 mile trip.  550 miles in 15 hours is an average speed of 36 mph.  That's Model T performance."

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    The assumption of 6 hours to charge is wrong unless you're plugging into a wall outlet. Fast charging adds 90 miles of range in 30 minutes or less. Supercharger is faster.

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    oldshurst442

    Posted (edited)

    I am about to say flawed logic to that as well...

    But before I do say it, I wanna know how many gasoline stations were around in the 1900s, then the 1910s, then the 1920s. (because obviously gasoline powered vehicles, especially affordable ones like the Model T, just exploded unto the scene by the 1920s...)

    Then, Id like to know how far apart were those gasoline stations.  Again, each decade had growth.  And that poster just mentions Model T territory, but obviously a 1908 Model T was different enough from a 1927 Model T and more to it than that, the automotive landscape had significantly changed from 1908 to 1927...his argument does not mention what decade of Model T.  Because I bet you, especially in the early days, the gasoline stations were farther apart than the EV infrastructure is toady.  But at what point in time did the early gasoline stations equal the EV infrastructure we have today in 2019 and at what point in time did it surpass it? 

    Then Id like to know, how big of a gasoline tank the first Model Ts had, and then Id like to know how big of a gasoline tank the last gen Model T had.

    Then...Id like for us to make a REAL and honest calculation of what a Model T performance is like...according to its respective decade. Because it WAS different in the 1900s, in 1910, in 1920... 

    Also..in the early days of motoring...there werent even real roads. The Model T was a true blue off roader. 

    To which I also wanna know, those early Model T pioneers, or other gasoline powered vehicle owners, how far did they really need to drive? Because we all know, in the beginning of the automotive industry,  there were no Clark Griswold, Chicago to Wolly World family truckster vacations...Route 66 came after WW2 I think...

    We could all summarize and come to a conclusion that fits our biased agendas...that doesnt mean our conclusions or our opinions are correct.

    https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/what-the-history-of-gas-stations-means-for-electric-cars

     

    from that link above:

    Quote

     

    On my way to a conference in Ann Arbor, Michigan, last week, I took a little detour to Dearborn, to visit the Henry Ford Museum of Innovation.  I wanted to see what a Model T’s gas tank looked like.

    The importance of the Model T, which the Ford Motor Co. began selling in 1908, is  a familiar story: It was the first car that was both widely affordable and widely available, thanks to the mass manufacturing techniques Henry Ford developed and the economies of scale they made possible.

    But there is another, less well-known aspect of the Model T’s history: the role it played in the development of gas stations — and the role gas stations played in the rise of the automobile. With all the ferment surrounding the evolution of electric vehicles, it occurred to me that it might be instructive to look at the interplay between gas stations and cars a century ago.

    It turns out that the Model T’s gas tank was under the front seat cushion; to refill it, you had to raise the cushion and pour the gasoline into a hole on the top of the tank. Before you could even get to that stage, though, you first had to go to a store — often the local general store — where you ladled the gasoline into a container of some sort and then, using a funnel, poured it from the container into the gas tank. It was messy, inefficient and ultimately untenable if autos were going to replace the horse and buggy.

    By 1912, this system had largely given way to pumps set up on sidewalks by small entrepreneurs, who bought gas from a wholesaler. They used nozzles made to fit the opening of the Model T’s tank, which created an ad hoc standardization, ensuring that all nozzles and all gas tanks were interoperable.

     

     I also wanna know if that poster knew you had to play around to fill up the gas tank that way...did he calculate the time wasted fiddling around with bottles and funnels and mopping any spillages?  Did he calculate the time needed for all the little nuances that the early cars required to get going?  I bet not...

    So...the 36MPH for a certain vintage Model T may in fact be lower than that...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    oldshurst442

    Posted (edited)

    Here I am and Im watching playoff hockey.

    I came to a realization.

    In sports, fans like to compare how today's sports greats measure up to past sports greats and vice versa.

    But we cant do that accurately.  Different eras. Past sports greats smoked, drank, ate like pigs.Had other jobs. Did not train, exercise etc...

    Today's sports stars, well, they do the opposite of that.  Plus, they use technology that records and captures their motions and they play it back micro second to micro second and analyze their movements with a professional sports trainer and improve on their imperfections. 

    Anyway...back to cars. Same logic though. 

    Different times had different obstacles to overcome with different advances in technology. 

    Its not fair for the Model T to be scrutinized by me the way I did.

    But...its not fair for the EV to be scrutinized the way some do regarding charging times...

    Technology is simply not there for that...yet. But...that is just 1 aspect of charging an EV.

    For the umpteenth time. We forget that even with a 275 mile range in winter, so the range is even cut by 60-65%, an average Joe commuting with his EV, will never have to stop at a charging station just daily driving his EV back and forth to work if he has a home charging unit... 

    Modern EVs, Telsa  EVs, SURPASS performance levels the way that guy made his argument, hands down with the daily driving aspect as a Tesla EV, or Bolt, has enough range to never have to charge on public roads...never has to detour and stop to "fill up".  No time wasted...like at all...

    Some people just harp on charging times needlessly because it shant be a problem...

    But...just like the early Ford Model T adapters, cranking the engine by hand to start, fiddling around with bottles and funnels, taking out water from the radiator in the night because of freezing cold weather in the winter and adding water back into it in the morning, and then monitoring the water levels constantly,  checking the water in the battery...

    You know, those early car adapters, well, they coped...

    Same with the EV guys. They cope with the different set of obstacles they have to face...

    If you are not capable, or willing to cope with the EV obstacles...its simple, dont buy an EV. But for many, especially in other parts of the world not named United States of America, they cope with it quite well...

      

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    balthazar

    Posted (edited)

    2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    ...obviously a 1908 Model T was different enough from a 1927 Model T...

    I'm estimating, but 90% the exact same car.
    - - - - -
    I'm all in for coping/ handling it/ gittin' 'er dun… but that's not the way of the world anymore.
    We have remote-controlled BLINDS, for shit's sake.

    Edited by balthazar
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    6 hours ago, balthazar said:

    I'm estimating, but 90% the exact same car.
    - - - - -
    I'm all in for coping/ handling it/ gittin' 'er dun… but that's not the way of the world anymore.
    We have remote-controlled BLINDS, for $h!'s sake.

    Yes. And we have Google Home and Amazon "whatever its called" that controls literally everything you want it to control in your home.

    But when there is a power failure...kiss all that good-bye and we have to cope with day to day living the old fashioned way....

    And some of us are so far up Google's and Amazon's ass that we dont know how to 'git er dun' anymore. 

    Point being, technology will always have limits no matter how far advanced technology has become and we will always advance and evolve our ways and adapt quite easily to these new advancements but when something incredibly new arrives, and there will be set-backs and/or minor deficiencies, we will have to cope with those deficiencies one way or other until we iron out those kinks. 

    And the innovation cycle will continue to repeat itself that way. 

     

     

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    Yup, a power failure in a home-charged electric car world... nobody can get to work... how lovely.  BLOCK PARTY!

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    Happened twice.

    Plus...

    Résultats de recherche d'images pour « Gulf war images »

     

    But you still dont get it!

    Stop the motherphoquing childish trolling...

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    I could still get to work. I don't drive 250 miles one way. I could go a week with no power at the house and still get to work

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    ocnblu

    Posted (edited)

    That's really nice.  My route is 24-25 miles each way.  So... assuming I have 100% charge coincidentally at the moment the power outage starts, I suppose I could go 5 days, strictly driving only back and forth to and from work, with zero side trips for groceries that don't need refrigeration, or cooking, in perfect weather that does not require heating or cooling the car, and not using any accessories like a radio... seems totally doable.  Wow, I just talked myself into it.  Seems so easy all of a sudden.

    olds, I will take my chances we will not have another gas crisis v. the mathematical possibility of a power outage... which to me would go up if everybody's drawing power for a car.  PLUS... no tanks needed for domestic oil production.

    Edited by ocnblu

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    A 5 day power outage is common for you?   Even still, just go somewhere that has a charger and power up for 30 minutes. It's not like you'll have anything to do at home with the power out. It's these strawman arguments that make you look especially ridiculous in your opposition to EVs. We get it.  Don't buy one. Let the people who do want one alone.

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    ocnblu

    Posted (edited)

    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A 5 day power outage is common for you?

    Well no, but that was your example I was using.  Finding a working charger depends on how widespread the outage is.  I am leaving the people alone, it is the cars themselves I pick on.  I hope everyone sees that distinction.

    Edited by ocnblu

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    33 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Well no, but that was your example I was using.  Finding a working charger depends on how widespread the outage is.  I am leaving the people alone, it is the cars themselves I pick on.  I hope everyone sees that distinction.

    No.

    The conversation was a cool, informative, civil, factual to a degree, discourse. Nothing childish about it.

    Debunking illogical or even proving certain aspects of that discussion was the direction.

    Balthy informed me that 90% of the Model T from 1908 and 1927 remained the same.

    Then you come along and spew childish remarks...and then I become the bad guy again...derailing the thread and making my remarks borderline personal....

    I do NOT enjoy being this way.

    I do NOT enjoy posting this way and I certainly do NOT enjoy interacting with you guys this way.

    These kinds of discussions, the way you and I approach it,  are high school level intelligence.

    YOUR arguments are high school level.

    Please stop!

     

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    That's really nice.  My route is 24-25 miles each way.  So... assuming I have 100% charge coincidentally at the moment the power outage starts, I suppose I could go 5 days, strictly driving only back and forth to and from work, with zero side trips for groceries that don't need refrigeration, or cooking, in perfect weather that does not require heating or cooling the car, and not using any accessories like a radio... seems totally doable.  Wow, I just talked myself into it.  Seems so easy all of a sudden.

    olds, I will take my chances we will not have another gas crisis v. the mathematical possibility of a power outage... which to me would go up if everybody's drawing power for a car.  PLUS... no tanks needed for domestic oil production.

    So how will you get that gas with no power? 🤔

    No ability to pump it from the ground tank to the dispenser and then into your auto.

    No Power, no ability for the refinery to process the oil into gas and then transport it to the wholesaler and then to the retailer and then into your auto.

    No power, then no ability to drill the well to pump the oil into the holding tanks, then into the rail car, to the refiner to the transport, to the wholesaler, to the retailer to your auto.

    With power, be it solar, wind, hydro, natural gas, coal, nuclear, power generated, transmitted over the lines and dispersed via various charging stations or even in your own home means: ALWAYS FULLY CHARGED in the Morning, Fully charged during the power outage times due to weather storms, Means not going out in a storm when you are near empty to make sure you have a tank of gas in the morning to attempt to get to work.

    EV or ICEV???? 🤔🤔🤔

    I will grant you both have exciting reasons and draw backs, yet like the early 1900's we are at the beginning of a new exciting era.

    Enjoy your ICEV Blu, I will enjoy mine too till the EVs are in production that will fit me and I can retire my ICEV for an EV.

    57 minutes ago, balthazar said:



    NOW how does everyone feel?

    Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 12.24.17 PM.png

    Thank you for the tension breaker. It is spring and lovely today. Off to do yard work.

     

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    15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The assumption of 6 hours to charge is wrong unless you're plugging into a wall outlet. Fast charging adds 90 miles of range in 30 minutes or less. Supercharger is faster.

    Let's not forget that with XFS starting to be installed and Toshiba solid state batteries to go into Nissan and Mitsubishi auto's that are planned to go on sale in 2020 as a 2021 model we will have two options. 198 miles battery pack with a 6 min recharge time or the 396 mile battery pack that recharges in 12 min via an XFS charger. XFS is what Shell has implied they will install at their gas stations for paid use by the public.

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