Jump to content
Create New...
  • William Maley
    William Maley

    No, The Wrangler's Turbo-Four Will Not Produce 368 Horsepower

      368 Horsepower? Yeah, about that...

    The internet went aflame last week when a NHTSA filing revealed an interesting tidbit about the next-generation Jeep Wrangler. The turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder was said to produced 368 horsepower. A crazy number and one that made a number of people - some here on our forum question whether that was actually true or a mistake.

    It seems to be the latter as The Truth About Cars found an updated filing from FCA which now lists the turbo 2.0L at NR (Not Rated). Everything else on the table is unchanged.

    A source at FCA told Road & Track last week that the 368 figure was 'dead wrong'.

    For now, we'll to have wait patiently for Jeep to debut the Wrangler or for another leak to come out.

    Source: The Truth About Cars, Road & Track

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    268 is more likely. 

    Agreed.  Although if it makes 268 hp and 280 lb-ft, what is the point of the Pentastar that is like 290 hp, 260 lb-ft?  Now you have 2 powertrains with the same power output.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Agreed.  Although if it makes 268 hp and 280 lb-ft, what is the point of the Pentastar that is like 290 hp, 260 lb-ft?  Now you have 2 powertrains with the same power output.

    One has much less plumbing.  

    • Like 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Agreed.  Although if it makes 268 hp and 280 lb-ft, what is the point of the Pentastar that is like 290 hp, 260 lb-ft?  Now you have 2 powertrains with the same power output.

    One had much less lag. If your rock crawling, you don't want to be into the turbo all the time just to get your torque.

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    One had much less lag. If your rock crawling, you don't want to be into the turbo all the time just to get your torque.

    Any car maker that isn't 100% turbo by 2020 is way behind the times.  The Pentastar V6 should be turbo only.  

    The one place the turbo 4 makes most sense is over seas where the Pentastar will get hit with displacement tax.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Any car maker that isn't 100% turbo by....is way behind the times

    Ive heard that one before...must have been around 1993..

    The song is from the 1970s...I heard it for the first time in 1993?

    38 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    It's the Ecodiesel that will be the torque of the town.

    Only because diesels are so so scan-da-lous

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    If your v6 larks torque, you built your engine wrong.  If your 4cyl lacks torque, you built a Honda engine.  A Jeep turbo 4 is silly when they can use the Pentastar v6 and add some more torque.  How do you haul and tow and climb rocks with a turbocharged 4cyl?

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    47 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    If your v6 larks torque, you built your engine wrong.  If your 4cyl lacks torque, you built a Honda engine.  A Jeep turbo 4 is silly when they can use the Pentastar v6 and add some more torque.  How do you haul and tow and climb rocks with a turbocharged 4cyl?

    Ya Don't! :P 

    Always said these high HP low torque engines with dual overhead cam crap are just marketing fluff for idiots that cannot understand real torque is the answer, not butt loads of HP.

    Will take a properly built pushrod V6 or V8 over turbo everything in today's driving of needing torque to move along.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I am guessing 268 HP and higher torque and tuned for the torque to hit early and hard.  Jeep understands their audience.  The Pentastar was redone in 16 in the GC and Durango and provides a much better torque curve and is much torquier lower in the rev range.  Of course the ecodiesel will be the torque monster, but am sure the other engines will work just fine off road. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Any car maker that isn't 100% turbo by 2020 is way behind the times.  The Pentastar V6 should be turbo only.  

    The one place the turbo 4 makes most sense is over seas where the Pentastar will get hit with displacement tax.

    Wrong. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Any car maker that isn't 100% turbo by 2020 is way behind the times.  The Pentastar V6 should be turbo only.   

    Why? Nothing wrong with the Pentastar as it is...no point in a turbo version.

    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Why? Nothing wrong with the Pentastar as it is...no point in a turbo version.

    Alfa Romeo makes a smaller displacement V6 than the Pentastar with 213 more horsepower.  Ford makes a two 3-liter or less V6's with more horsepower and torque than the Pentastar.   

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Any car maker that isn't 100% turbo by 2020 is way behind the times.  The Pentastar V6 should be turbo only.  

    The one place the turbo 4 makes most sense is over seas where the Pentastar will get hit with displacement tax.

    You really need to stop looking a peak output that only happens under full throttle situations.  The coming Benz electric turbo might change things, but for now, the only time you'll be getting that huge torque is when the turbo is fully cooking. Absolutely the wrong situation for driving a Wrangler.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Alfa Romeo makes a smaller displacement V6 than the Pentastar with 213 more horsepower.  Ford makes a two 3-liter or less V6's with more horsepower and torque than the Pentastar.   

    So?  For more horsepower and torque, Jeep has the Hemi option. 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Alfa Romeo makes a smaller displacement V6 than the Pentastar with 213 more horsepower.  Ford makes a two 3-liter or less V6's with more horsepower and torque than the Pentastar.   

    Stop this.... horsepower / displacement is a dumb metric.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Stop this.... horsepower / displacement is a dumb metric.

    At the Air Force Museum in Dayton there is a rocket that made 30, 000 horsepower and was the size of a Ford 289.  I thought about smuggling it out and dumping it in the Fastback back in the day, but figured military security might frown on that...

    ...in that sense Horsepower/displacement might have made my life really exciting in one way or another.

    • Haha 4
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    At the Air Force Museum in Dayton there is a rocket that made 30, 000 horsepower and was the size of a Ford 289.  I thought about smuggling it out and dumping it in the Fastback back in the day, but figured military security might frown on that...

    ...in that sense Horsepower/displacement might have made my life really exciting in one way or another.

    The last 10 seconds of it anyway.... 

    • Haha 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    So?  For more horsepower and torque, Jeep has the Hemi option. 

    The Alfa 2.9 liter V6 makes more horsepower than a 6.4 liter Hemi V8 also.  Hemi is even more dated than the Pentastar with barely any power increase since 2005.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Alfa 2.9 liter V6 makes more horsepower than a 6.4 liter Hemi V8 also.  Hemi is even more dated than the Pentastar with barely any power increase since 2005.

    Alfa's sales are so low the 2.9 doesn't matter. 

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Alfa 2.9 liter V6 makes more horsepower than a 6.4 liter Hemi V8 also.  Hemi is even more dated than the Pentastar with barely any power increase since 2005.

    Stop the trolling. The Pentastar and Hemi both have gotten regular updates. The Pentastar was updated again just last year. They didn't add power, they added fuel economy.

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Stop the trolling. The Pentastar and Hemi both have gotten regular updates. The Pentastar was updated again just last year. They didn't add power, they added fuel economy.

    And...about the power part...Dodge even added some sort of forced induction...JUST like SMK wishes..

     

     

     

    But this is about a Wrangler...

    I dont think a turbo 4 should be the answer...but a regular non-turbo 4 cylinder should not normally cause controversy...

    43.jpg

    e6035ba656a0b5ff5dec29bdbd61e353--jeep-w

     

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:
    No automatic alt text available.

    Okay then...a better form of vintage aircraft and car together...

    Both are Sexy MF.! :metal: 

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    The Alfa 2.9 liter V6 makes more horsepower than a 6.4 liter Hemi V8 also.  Hemi is even more dated than the Pentastar with barely any power increase since 2005.

    Reliability I put on the Hemi over the Alfa crap.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I have no problem with a turbo 4 in a Wrangler as a base option for suburban warriors who only buy it for looks. It is not a V6 replacement.

    The turbo 4 replaced the V6 in almost every sedan, from Sonata to Malibu to CTS to E-class.  And the turbo V6 replaced the V8 in the F150, replaced it on the Audi RS4, E43, etc.  

    The Wrangler has 285 hp and gets 17/21 mpg, a Turbo 4 can get near that power and beat that MPG.  A turbo V6 can be the upgrade.  GM has the same problem with their 3.6 V6 in a lot of vehicles, mainly Cadillacs.  It doesn't offer much difference in acceleration or fuel economy of the 2.0T and it is way outgunned by German V6s.

    For fun:

    2005 Chrysler 300C  340 hp, 390 lb-ft  17/25mpg  (5-speed)

    2017 Chrysler 300C Hemi 363 hp, 396 lb-ft  16/25 mpg (8-speed)

    That is what 12 yeas of advancement got? 

    By comparison, progress being made in Stuttgart:

    2005 Mercedes S500 4Matic  302 hp, 339 lb-ft,   16/22 mpg  (5.0 liter V8)

    2018 Mercedes S450 4Matic  362 hp, 369 lb-ft,  18/28 mpg  (3.0 liter V6)

    2018 Mercedes S560 4Matic  463 hp, 516 lb-ft,  17/27 mpg  (4.0 liter V8)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1. Having to use a lot of turbo in the type of slow speed rock crawling the Wrangler does is a BAD IDEA.

    2. The Chrysler and GM V6es are not being out gunned by the Euros. You don't get a euro turbo V6 until you pay GM turbo V6 prices. GM is out gunning the blown 4 pots the Germans will sell you using V6es. If your only choice in a car is a turbo 4 or a naturally aspirated v6, you'll get the V6. 

    The EPA numbers for the LX cars are always under rated.

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    52 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    '05 5.7L Hemi : 350HP / 375 TRQ

    '17 5.7L Hemi : 375/410
    '17 6.4L Hemi : 485/475
    '17 6.2L Hemi : 707/650

    Yep; "barely any" power increases. ;)

    With displacement increases.  Chrysler should have a 3 liter V6 making more power than the 2005 5.7 liter Hemi V8.  Alfa does, so it is doable.  The Pentastar should be turbo to 370 hp as the upgrade from the myster horsepower turbo 4.

    CAFE also goes up like 10% per year in the 2020-2025 time frame.  They are paying fines now, they need massive gains.  And all this stuff should be electrified in some way post 2020.

    AMG has 603 hp, 627 lb-ft from a 4.0 liter V8, 485 hp out of a 6.4 liter is a joke, even the 2007 Mercedes 6.3 had 510 hp.  And they replaced that engine twice already.

    Edited by smk4565
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chrysler raised displacement 0.5 liters and horsepower over DOUBLED.

    how much of a joke is 510 HP out of 6.3L against 707HP out of 6.2L?

    And I didn't even mention 840 HP out of 6.2L.

    Yeah - that's what I thought.

     

    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    12 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Chrysler raised displacement 0.5 liters and horsepower over DOUBLED.

    how much of a joke is 510 HP out of 6.3L against 707HP out of 6.2L?

    And I didn't even mention 840 HP out of 6.2L.

    Yeah - that's what I thought.

     

    They still sell the 5.7 liter as the option in the 300C, which is why I compared an S500 then to an S560 today, same model.  The Mercedes 6.3 is 10 years old and has been out of production for years, no point to compare it to a engine introduced in 2017.  Mercedes can win any HP/liter argument too because they have a 700 hp 1.6 liter V6, but never mind that, not the point.

    The Demon and Hellcat make a ton of power, no doubt.  Terrible fuel economy but nonetheless huge power.  Problem is Chrysler's mainstream engines are bad.  And they haven't seen increases in fuel economy and power as others have.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    But the 5.7 is no longer the only Hemi- there are 3 distinct displacements in the family but they are all 'Hemi's.
    Without question Chrysler has (massively) upgraded Hemi power as opposed to your claim. The tiny adjustments in displacement are irrelevant. The fact that there is still a 5.7 with similar power levels is also irrelevant, beside the fact that  375/410 power numbers are more than enough for most drivers as it is. Name another brand that has increased power in the same engine family to this degree in the same time period.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 hours ago, balthazar said:

    But the 5.7 is no longer the only Hemi- there are 3 distinct displacements in the family but they are all 'Hemi's.
    Without question Chrysler has (massively) upgraded Hemi power as opposed to your claim. The tiny adjustments in displacement are irrelevant. The fact that there is still a 5.7 with similar power levels is also irrelevant, beside the fact that  375/410 power numbers are more than enough for most drivers as it is. Name another brand that has increased power in the same engine family to this degree in the same time period.

    But no gas mileage increase, and CAFE in 2005 was around 27 mpg, in 2025 it is 54 mpg.  In 12 years they went no where, now they have to double the fuel economy in 8 years.  

    375 is definitely a lot of horsepower, but a six cylinder can make that.  The Pentastar should replace the 5.7 Hemi with equal power but a 5 mpg advantage.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    But no gas mileage increase, and CAFE in 2005 was around 27 mpg, in 2025 it is 54 mpg.  In 12 years they went no where, now they have to double the fuel economy in 8 years.  

    375 is definitely a lot of horsepower, but a six cylinder can make that.  The Pentastar should replace the 5.7 Hemi with equal power but a 5 mpg advantage.

    The V6, the vast bulk of the sales, just got it's upgrade last year for a few of the models that got refreshes. They haven't even added Direct injection yet, though the Pentastar is designed for it, and it is still competitive. 

    2017-10-12 (1).png

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    Nobody going from 350 HP to 485 HP is going to also see a MPG increase. Not the point tho here, is it?

    But they went from 350 hp to 363 hp in the Chrysler 300.  

    An 06 S500 4matic got 14/20 mpg out of its 302 hp V8,  the 2018 S560 4Matic gets 17/27 mpg with 463 hp.  Adding 160 hp and 7 mpg highway is pretty good.

    The S63 went from ab6.3 V8 with 518 hp, 11/17 mpg in 2008, to 5.5 liter V8 with 577 hp 15/23 mpg in 2013, to 4.0 liter V8 603 hp 17/26 mpg in 2018.   9 mpg highway improvement with adding 85 hp and 160 lb-ft of torque.

    So the point is you can raise power and fuel economy at the same time with engine downsizing, turbos, DI, etc.  Use the technology, Chrysler doesn't do that.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Chrysler 300 SRT8 : 470 HP.

    Which in 2005 was 425 hp and 14/20 mpg.   To 14/23 mpg in 2014, and the SRT is out of production since 2014.  45 hp gain in 9 years with 3 mpg gain.  The current Chrysler 300 V8 makes 363 hp.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Which in 2005 was 425 hp and 14/20 mpg.   To 14/23 mpg in 2014, and the SRT is out of production since 2014.  45 hp gain in 9 years with 3 mpg gain.  The current Chrysler 300 V8 makes 363 hp.

    Now you're talking about 1 model / MPG, when I responded to your comment about 'the Hemi never gained any power'. Pick a damned point & stick with it, ONCE.

    Edited by balthazar
    • Like 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • Community Hive Community Hive

    Community Hive allows you to follow your favorite communities all in one place.

    Follow on Community Hive
  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Similar Content

  • Posts

    • First seen at the Shanghai Auto Show (see article: Polestar 4 - The New Breed of Electric SUV Coupe), Polestar brought the Polestar 4 to the New York International Auto Show for North Americans to see in person. Polestar calls the Polestar 4 an "electric SUV 4-door coupe". Outside of that marketing speak, the Polestar 4 is a slightly lifted four-door hatchback about 190 inches in length, or roughly 2 inches shorter than a Toyota Camry.  Built without rear glass, the Polestar 4 makes use of a rear camera for visibility astern. Polestar 4 features a plethora of standard content, including 20-inch 5 V-spoke black diamond cut alloy wheels, panoramic glass roof, adaptive cruise control, 360 parking camera with 3D view, energy saving heat pump, front-illuminated Polestar logo, e-latch doors, power-operated tailgate with soft close, Polestar digital key, wireless phone charging, and 8-way electrical driver seat and 6-way electrical passenger seat. The fastest production car the brand has ever developed to date, Polestar 4 can accomplish a 0-60 mph sprint in 3.7 seconds and in top spec can produce 544 horsepower. Long-range single-motor variants have 272 horsepower and a targeted EPA range of over 300 miles. All long range variants have a 102 kWh battery capable of 200 kW charging on a DC Fast Charger and 11 kW on home level-2 charging. Google built-in is ... built in and includes Google Assistant, Google Maps and Google Play. Polestar continues to offer a leading connected in-car experience. As with all other Polestar cars, regular over-the-air updates allow for new features and improvements to be sent remotely to all vehicles. Pricing starts at $54,900, with orders opening in April for deliveries in the latter half of this year.   View full article
    • At the New York Auto Show this week, Hyundai unveiled the 2025 Hyundai Tuscon.  This mild refresh modernizes the Tuscon and brings it more into alignment with the rest of the Hyundai lineup, including their EVs. The exterior styling updates, largely consisting of a front fascia update, are subtle. Inside, Hyundai made the interior more open and airy with a new, lower-height dashboard featuring a panoramic gauge and infotainment screen. The screens consist of twin 12.3-inch displays with crisper colors and graphics, as well as faster processing speeds.  While the screens can control all functions of the car, Hyundai still included physical buttons for the most frequently used controls.  Wireless Android Auto and Apple Carplay are now standard across the line. A new steering wheel features a much more open design, and on premium trims, the gear selector is now an electronically controlled stalk on the right side of the wheel, much like in the Hyundai Ioniq 6. On some Tuscon models, a new 12-inch color heads-up display with premium graphics is available, and for the first time, navigation directions from Apple Carplay and Android Auto will appear in the display. Proximity key with push button start is now standard across the 2025 Hyundai Tuscon lineup, while an available Digital Key 2 allows for fob-free driving and access via the driver's mobile phone. For 2025, Tucson adds Forward Attention Warning, which utilizes an infrared camera mounted on the steering column to help track the driver’s eye gaze and monitor attention levels to help ensure safe driving. Available Smart Cruise Control 2 continually assesses driver alertness. If the driver is found to be unresponsive, the system can even help safely bring the vehicle to a stop, activating the hazard lights and the electronic parking brake once the vehicle is stopped. Additionally, rear outboard passenger seatbelts now feature standard pretensioners and load limiters. The powertrains largely carry over from the previous model with a standard 187-horsepower 2.5-liter 4-cylinder at the entry level end. Also available is a 1.6-liter turbocharged hybrid with 231 horsepower with a slightly more powerful electric drive unit (47.7-kW, up from 44.2-kW), and a 6-speed automatic transmission. The plug-in hybrid model features the same 1.6-liter unit, but now paired with a larger electric drive unit with 72.0-kW of output rather than the 66.9-kW motor from the prior year. The plug-in hybrid boasts 268-horspower total system power. With a 13.4-kWh lithium-ion battery pack, the 2025 Hyundai Tucson plug-in hybrid takes less than 2 hours to charge on a level 2 charger.  All hybrid models come standard with all-wheel drive. 2025 Tucson 2.5L models will arrive at U.S. dealerships in June, while 1.6L turbo hybrid and plug-in hybrid models will be available late summer. View full article
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search

Change privacy settings