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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    Mercedes-AMG Models Endangered in EU

      ...could cut models by 75%...

    New European carbon emissions rules are coming into effect soon and that will have a negative effect on models from a number of manufacturers.  Mercedes-AMG is known for its high-output vehicles, but that also generally makes them more polluting as well. 

    Mercedes wants to cut its CO2 emissions from the current 138 grams per kilometer to 100 grams per kilometer. This would hit its most powerful models the hardest.  In the overall European market, 35 percent of new vehicles sold are sport utility vehicles which generally have higher emissions than cars.  Customers' appetite for SUVs could force Mercedes to cut their AMG variants offered by up to 75%.  AMG will attempt to get around some of these cuts by introducing electrification in more of its vehicles, however, engine downsizing seems to be in play here as well. 

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    True that..just something else to plug in.  I often run my laptop, tablet and cell phone down to 5% or less.  Charging electronics is part of daily life in the modern world, but I am bad about remembering to plug in...especially my tablet.  My Ring doorbell camera is down to 5%, got to charge it tomorrow...my electric razor needs charged, but I only shave once a week or so in winter..working at home has made me so lazy about some things...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    EV have brakes also, so you still have to do those.  And who spends 10 minutes at a gas station?  If there is a line, maybe...normally, pull up, pay at the pump, fill up, pull out..less than 5 min (every two weeks in my case).

    Avereage brake jobs on Hybrids are lasting 100,000 miles so still much less maintenance than traditional ICE auto's. 

    If you have a small car or CUV to Medium, then yes under 10 min to fill and you have stated you fill at half a tank so always quick to top off. I know I spend 20 min fueling at the gas station as the full size SUV's, aka Escalade ESV and Suburban SLE have way bigger tanks than your Jeep has. Anyone wanting a full size truck to pull with will and should always get the bigger tank option than the smaller ones.

    Plus depending on how the gas station services their own pumps and the dirty level of the filters, you can easily spend 10 to 15 min fueling at the pump on a mid size auto.

    Just my own observations IMHO.

    57 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    But are they automatic? Is it something the driver would have to turn on...

    Yes all the wireless pads you can have installed are automatic. The 3rd party ones are compatible with the Leaf, Bolt, Volt, i3, i8 and Tesla. That removes the whole cord thing, just drive over it, get out, lock the auto and go in if outside, otherwise just get out and go about your life that night, next morning full battery charge.

    My plans are for the wireless pads in my garage once we buy an EV.

    Here is a good writeup about the current state of Wireless Charging:

    https://chargedevs.com/features/whats-the-current-state-of-wireless-ev-charging/

    What%E2%80%99s-the-current-state-of-wire

    See the source image

    Nice thing is that with the auto's you do not have to be perfect just drive over it and they will grab and charge the battery as long as the bulk of the pad is somewhere under the auto.

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    Sound like you have some bad gas stations. I couldn’t  imagine taking over 10 minutes to fill a midsize vehicle.  My Jeep has a 24.x gallon tank, I don’t think I’ve ever spent over 10 minutes filling up even when down to an 1/8th. 

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    5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Sound like you have some bad gas stations. I couldn’t  imagine taking over 10 minutes to fill a midsize vehicle.  My Jeep has a 24.x gallon tank, I don’t think I’ve ever spent over 10 minutes filling up even when down to an 1/8th. 

    Costco is always fast, they keep their system running great and is the fastest to fill, Kroger sucks big time, I have never had more problems fueling than at a Krogers. Seems dirty filters and poor vacume recovery system of the fumes causes them to constantly turn off.

    With smartphones, I have seen so many start gassing and then play with their phone, bet it takes longer than most people realize. Will have to time my next fill up.

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    True; there are a lot of folk living in hi rises or townhouses or have no driveways (urban areas) for whom charging is an impossibility. I have a 2-car garage on my house, plus a 4-bay in the back, but my truck parks outside, over stone and about 25’ from the house. A ‘pad’ / a cord draped across the ground is not desirable in SO many scenarios.

    Read an article recently where a Canadian homeowner was denied making an on-lawn parking spot in front of his home for his EV because of restrictions for non-permiable surfaces and zoning issues. I assume he wanted his car closer to enable 'cording' his car overnight.

    Edited by balthazar
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    8 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Costco is always fast, they keep their system running great and is the fastest to fill, Kroger sucks big time, I have never had more problems fueling than at a Krogers. Seems dirty filters and poor vacume recovery system of the fumes causes them to constantly turn off.

    With smartphones, I have seen so many start gassing and then play with their phone, bet it takes longer than most people realize. Will have to time my next fill up.

    Never tried grocery gas stations...I stick with the Shell or BP near my house.   I just filled up from 1/8th of tank last week, should have timed it. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/06/24/solving-the-electric-vehicle-garage-orphans-problem/

    https://lecircuitelectrique.com/welcome

     

    Garage orphans would be the name for this latest EV concern.  There are many ways to overcome this.  But it takes a change in the mindset of the federal government, the provincial government (or in the US...the individual state government), the municipal government, the local businesses including gas stations and the people...

    Above are two links. Canadian point of views and what Canada and some of its provinces do to help change the landscape of how we drive gas powered cars to to ease the change to electrics. The second link is what Quebec does. What are its plans for the future and how it eases the use of EVs in our province.

    Quebec.  We have hydro-electric power. Its a crown corporation that provides us with electricity. Which also means, it makes financial sense for us to switch to EVs because the money that costs to produce and sell electricity to people of Quebec, stays in our province... We have also have an abundance of it that we also sell to New York, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, and some parts of Ontario. Maybe there are other states and provinces...

    We've talked about how local businesses, such as restaurants, grocery stores, hardware stores could partner up with the 1 or 2 or all 3 levels of government to provide  chargers. 

    1 or 2 or all 3 levels of government could provide on the street, many streets, in many urban areas street chargers. In Dowtown Montreal we got lots of them.

    Image result for Montreal downtown street charging stations"

     

    Image result for Montreal downtown street charging stations"

    It says...no parking except EVs that want to recharge.

    Image result for Montreal downtown street charging stations"

     

    And lastly, gas stations themselves...could provide EV stations.

    Petro-Canada has started to create its own charging network in their gasoline stations across Canada...

    Image result for Petro Canada EV stations"

    Where there is a will, there is a way.

    If citizens want to resist change, then that is a whole 'nother ball game. 

    But...300 mile range EVs are gonna be common place from 2020 and on.  That number will go up 2-3 years from now. 

    Fast fast fast supercharging is but 2 years away also. That means that to get an additional 30-40-50-miles of range, it will be done in 10-15 minutes, if not in less time and for more range even, which also means, THAT would be almost on par to refueling your car with gasoline. 

    Now...I am NOT saying EVs are the way of your future because I understand politics, I understand people dont want change, I understand how electricity is made and in some places, coal powered plants are STILL in use. In some places, nuclear is also frowned upon so its hard, almost impossible, for a mass migration to electric from gas...

    In Quebec, where I live. We dont seem to have much resistance for us to go from gas to electric. Its easy peasey for us...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    On 1/19/2020 at 2:45 PM, balthazar said:

    THEY’VE ALREADY DONE IT.

    Not with a warranty, they have not. 

    Requiring a warranty over 50-60,000 miles is a game changer for engineers. 

    On 1/19/2020 at 3:02 PM, riviera74 said:

    The V8 will still survive and probably thrive here in the USA until BEVs render the entire line of ICE engines obsolete.  That may not happen for another 15-20 years minimum. 

    MB will simply sell the AMG models where the V8 is not somehow banned, like the USA or the Middle East.  Now if $5/gal or higher ever returns, then AMG (and a lot of other vehicles) will have a problem finding customers.

    I agree but it's funny to think somebody who can afford $80,000-$100,000+ for a vehicle would scare at a ~$2.00 per gallon raise. 

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    23 hours ago, dfelt said:

    I see no reason when you stop for a 1hr lunch to not charge to full the auto then.

    Isn't the idea of an EV to charge at home, for even less cost? 

    It seems way more inconvenient to try and charge over a lunch period than to just charge at home. 

    15 hours ago, balthazar said:

    How did you come up with ‘10 minutes’?

    But like Ive documented here before- I see 250-330 mile range Teslas charging at 9AM- what explains that scenario?

    Tesla Superchargers? 

    Free. 

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    You’d think, in the grand plan scheme, that public chargers for EVs would ideally only be on interstates and at offices, as ‘home fueling’ would basically eliminate street chargers’ neccessity.

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    11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Sound like you have some bad gas stations. I couldn’t  imagine taking over 10 minutes to fill a midsize vehicle.  My Jeep has a 24.x gallon tank, I don’t think I’ve ever spent over 10 minutes filling up even when down to an 1/8th. 

    I think his point is an average of 10 minutes including turning in(sometimes in a line), the fueling process, and pulling out(also sometimes waiting for traffic). Just the fueling is only about 1-3 minutes depending on tank size. 

    I believe I timed a 10 gallon fill-up once because @dfelt and I were talking about it and it was about 1:20 for ~10 gallons. It's somewhere on this site...haha

    6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    You’d think, in the grand plan scheme, that public chargers for EVs would ideally only be on interstates and at offices, as ‘home fueling’ would basically eliminate street chargers’ neccessity.

    Oh yeah, when range is increased and more and more homes get chargers, the only time you'd need to publicly charge is when taking longer trips. 

    The only people I could see charging over their lunch break is people with a Volt(or similarly short-range EVs) who have to drive ~40 miles to work and can make it home with a top-off over lunch.. Otherwise it seems like a completely unnecessary process over lunch. I would never do that, especially because it would cost me more than charging at my house. 

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    8 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Isn't the idea of an EV to charge at home, for even less cost? 

    It seems way more inconvenient to try and charge over a lunch period than to just charge at home. 

    Tesla Superchargers? 

    Free. 

    Yes for local trips, but if your on a road trip, makes sense to charge over lunch.

    Tesla is NOT free to Tesla 3 owners. Also many S & X owners have to pay too. They have not done free for everyone. Just select options / models.

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    40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Tesla is NOT free to Tesla 3 owners. Also many S & X owners have to pay too. They have not done free for everyone. Just select options / models.

    Musk turns the tap off & on at whim. I read recent info that the performance Model 3 was free, again, at the Superchargers. Piece I read claimed he does it to goose sales.

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    4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    I thought S and X were always free and the 3 was "come and go" with offering it. 

    Nope, at the beginning the S&X  regardless of model and options were all free, but then later on only the top model versions or extended range batteries had charging for free. Later as @balthazar has pointed out, Musk turns the tap on and off depending on sales, models, etc. on the need to keep things going.

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    11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't see Ford offering free gas, so I don't know why people expect Tesla to offer free electricity.

    Only because it was a pretty big marketing tool they used to sell their vehicles.

    "Buy our vehicle and never pay for fuel!" 

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    12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't see Ford offering free gas, so I don't know why people expect Tesla to offer free electricity.

    I am willing to bet that MB will pull such tactics also to get their EV line selling. Might not be free electricity, but they will have some other grab for possible buyers to get pulled into buying the EV badge.

    Just like Rivian is including the Tank Mode now for all AWD 4 motor auto's.

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    23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I am willing to bet that MB will pull such tactics also to get their EV line selling.

    One wonders if the bean counters will approve the funds to pull the stunt.
    With the diesel issue clouding image & costing major money

    Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 10.16.47 AM.png

    and profits halving / the profit margin down to 4% AND going hard into unprofitable EVs, things may get extremely lean in the coming years.

    Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 10.13.11 AM.png

    Edited by balthazar
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    @balthazar MB also keeps saying that China and the US are key markets to grow. If so, then they will have to ramp up their sales here which I can see being ICE focused as they deal with the China forced EV change of ramping sales there. Europe also is not backing away from moving to Hybrid / EV of all auto's so they are going to have to invest and find a way to be profitable.

    Tesla is selling every 3 they build now in Shanghi and are getting on average of 20 new orders per day there, with a $20,000 drop in price it is amazing going from $75K to $55K how sales can jump.

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    Mercedes needs their own battery factories to open.  Those are under construction now, but their issue is they can’t get enough batteries from suppliers like LG.  And they have to sell more EV’s in Europe to get their CO2 numbers down or they face up to a billion dollars in fines.  And it isn’t just them it is everyone.  So these car companies are going to push EV’s to avoid fines.

    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    One wonders if the bean counters will approve the funds to pull the stunt.
    With the diesel issue clouding image & costing major money

    Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 10.16.47 AM.png

    and profits halving / the profit margin down to 4% AND going hard into unprofitable EVs, things may get extremely lean in the coming years.

    Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 10.13.11 AM.png

    They still made over $6 billion in profit last year.  They’ll be fine.   And there will be some lean years because they have to pour money into EV development.  But once it is all EG and gas/diesel is gone they will be more profitable because vehicle design and manufacturing will be easier.

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    What if it halves again to $3 B in 2020? EVs are going to depress that even further. Stockholders aren’t going to sit by and watch profits dry up. How much longer is daimler going to drag out settling Dieselgate? 

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