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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Sales Figure Ticker: July 2017

      Spark or sputter? We have July sales numbers!

    Subaru of America, Inc. - Up 6.9% (55,703 Vehicles Sold This Month, 360,513 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Toyota Motor North America - Up 3.6% (222,057 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,377,222 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Audi of America - Up 2.5% (18,824 Vehicles Sold This Month, 121,795 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mitsubishi Motors North America - Up 1.7% (8,025 Vehicles Sold This Month, 62,601 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Porsche Cars North America, Inc. - Up 0.6% (3,901 Vehicles Sold This Month, 31,469 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    American Honda Motor Co. - Down 1.2% (150,980 Vehicles Sold This Month, 942,866 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mazda North American Operations - Down 3% (27,089 Vehicles Sold This Month, 168,713 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Nissan Group - Down 3.2% (128,295 Vehicles Sold This Month, 947,983 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jaguar Land Rover North America - Down 4% (9,081 Vehicles Sold This Month, 65,585 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volkswagen of America - Down 5.8% (27,091 Vehicles Sold This Month, 188,329 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Kia Motors America - Down 5.9% (56,403 Vehicles Sold This Month, 352,139 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ford Motor Company -  Down 7.5% (200,212 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,501,314 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    FCA US LLC - Down 10% (161,477 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,228,839 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    BMW Group U.S. - Down 13.7% (26,363 Vehicles Sold This Month, 197,654 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    General Motors Co. - Down 15.4% (226,107 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,640,553 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volvo Car USA, LLC - Down 18.8% (6,967 Vehicles Sold This Month, 41,072 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Hyundai Motor America - Down 27.9% (54,063 Vehicles Sold This Month, 400,423 Vehicles Sold This Year)

    Maserati North America, Inc. - 
    Mercedes-Benz USA - 

    Brands:
    Acura - Up 3.7% (14,177 Vehicles Sold This Month, 88,048 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Alfa Romeo - Up 2,749% (1,225 Vehicles Sold This Month, 4,944 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Audi - Up 2.5% (18,824 Vehicles Sold This Month, 121,795 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    BMW - Down 14.8% (21,965 Vehicles Sold This Month, 171,051 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Buick - Down 30.5% (15,966 Vehicles Sold This Month, 126,282 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Cadillac - Down 21.7% (11,227 Vehicles Sold This Month, 83,300 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Chevrolet - Down 15.3% (151,502 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,120,384 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Chrysler - Down 30% (13,303 Vehicles Sold This Month, 115,398 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Dodge - Down 12% (31,264 Vehicles Sold This Month, 292,244 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Fiat - Down 18% (2,244 Vehicles Sold This Month, 16,926 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ford - Down 7.7% (191,337 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,436,102 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Genesis - N/A (1,644 Vehicles Sold This Month, 11,563 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    GMC - Down 7.3% (47,412 Vehicles Sold This Month, 310,587 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Honda - Down 1.7% (136,803 Vehicles Sold This Month, 854,818 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Hyundai - Down 30.1% (52,419 Vehicles Sold This Month, 388,860 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Infiniti - Up 9% (10,840 Vehicles Sold This Month, 89,983 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jaguar - Down 7% (3,166 Vehicles Sold This Month, 23,831 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jeep - Down 12% (69,351 Vehicles Sold This Month, 475,642 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Kia - Down 5.9% (56,403 Vehicles Sold This Month, 352,139 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Land Rover - Down 3% (5,915 Vehicles Sold This Month, 41,754 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Lexus - Up 3.6% (28,902 Vehicles Sold This Month, 162,662 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Lincoln - Down 2.5% (8,875 Vehicles Sold This Month, 65,212 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Maserati - 
    Mazda - Down 3% (27,089 Vehicles Sold This Month, 168,713 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mercedes-Benz - 
    MINI - Down 7.9% (4,398 Vehicles Sold This Month, 26,603 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mitsubishi - Up 1.7% (8,025 Vehicles Sold This Month, 62,601 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Nissan - Down 4.1% (117,455 Vehicles Sold This Month, 858,000 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Porsche - Up 0.6% (3,901 Vehicles Sold This Month, 31,469 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ram Trucks - 0% (44,090 Vehicles Sold This Month, 323,685 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Smart - 
    Subaru - Up 6.9% (55,703 Vehicles Sold This Month, 360,513 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Toyota - Up 3.6% (193,155 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,214,560 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volkswagen - Down 5.8% (27,091 Vehicles Sold This Month, 188,329 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volvo - Down 18.8% (6,967 Vehicles Sold This Month, 41,072 Vehicles Sold This Year)

    *Mercedes-Benz's sales numbers include Mercedes-Benz Vans.

    Edited by William Maley

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    surreal1272
    27 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Numbers do not look good at the moment!

    Alfa is up 2700 percent...it's a plot!

    Lol! Yet Fiat and Alfa are still, by far, the weak sales links on the FCA chain. 

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    riviera74
    44 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Lol! Yet Fiat and Alfa are still, by far, the weak sales links on the FCA chain. 

    If only Alfa Romeo had the profit margins of Maserati, Sergio would not look so bad in terms of sacrificing Chrysler to the Italian sales boat anchors.

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    Guest CarGuy

    Guest CarGuy

    Posted

    WOW Toyota sold 41000+ Rav4s. Outsold all competition this past month. Not the best or newest. Was there some kind of special promotion?

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    David
    6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    So far the Asians are up and everyone else is suffering...

    Nissan, Mazda and Honda are all down. So I think everyone is hurting, just a few not as bad as the rest.

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    smk4565

     Bad month unless you are Toyota corp.  Alfa cracked 1,000 which is good but that might flatline around 2,000 a month.  Will be interesting to see what happens there.

    The part of this list alphabetically from Buick to Ford told a severe beating.  Not surprised really.

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    Guest 2017trumpride

    Guest 2017trumpride

    Posted

    No body is taking a beating.  Just because the number of cars sold ard down means nothing.  Its all about profit.  You can be down 50% but profits could be up 20%.   Don't rely on cars sold to judge the car industry completely.  GM for one example is down 15 points but in reality those were cars so to rental companies mostly, with little to no profit last year.

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    A Horse With No Name
    47 minutes ago, Guest 2017trumpride said:

    No body is taking a beating.  Just because the number of cars sold ard down means nothing.  Its all about profit.  You can be down 50% but profits could be up 20%.   Don't rely on cars sold to judge the car industry completely.  GM for one example is down 15 points but in reality those were cars so to rental companies mostly, with little to no profit last year.

    As someone who despises Ford, I really don't mind seeing them down 7.5% though....and Audi up 2.5%!  Wonderful....

    Plus, Hyundai is really hurting...

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    David
    4 hours ago, Guest CarGuy said:

    WOW Toyota sold 41000+ Rav4s. Outsold all competition this past month. Not the best or newest. Was there some kind of special promotion?

     

    12 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Not sure....

    Love web page time back machine, July has the same deals as august, so you have zero percent financing, or $200 a month lease or $3,000 dollars cash deals.

    rav4-Deals.jpg

    Looking at local dealerships in washington state here, they must also have some additional dealer incentives as locally they are offering Finance or Lease with additional $3K off, so I figure they must have extra room to really move the Rav 4.

    Is there a refresh coming that I am not aware of?

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    A Horse With No Name
    Just now, dfelt said:

     

    Love web page time back machine, July has the same deals as august, so you have zero percent financing, or $200 a month lease or $3,000 dollars cash deals.

    rav4-Deals.jpg

    Looking at local dealerships in washington state here, they must also have some additional dealer incentives as locally they are offering Finance or Lease with additional $3K off, so I figure they must have extra room to really move the Rav 4.

    Is there a refresh coming that I am not aware of?

    Not a refresh I know of.

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    regfootball
    8 hours ago, Guest CarGuy said:

    WOW Toyota sold 41000+ Rav4s. Outsold all competition this past month. Not the best or newest. Was there some kind of special promotion?

    A buddy who was leasing a highlander got a call from the dealer and they said they would pull ahead his lease, lower his payment, and next to nothing down.  he had been considering turning in the lease and buying used but the toyota whores got him........

    5 hours ago, Guest 2017trumpride said:

    No body is taking a beating.  Just because the number of cars sold ard down means nothing.  Its all about profit.  You can be down 50% but profits could be up 20%.   Don't rely on cars sold to judge the car industry completely.  GM for one example is down 15 points but in reality those were cars so to rental companies mostly, with little to no profit last year.

    market share is important though, too.  Over time if your market share erodes, you can end up in a position where you no longer are a big enough player in the market.

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    surreal1272
    6 hours ago, Guest 2017trumpride said:

    No body is taking a beating.  Just because the number of cars sold ard down means nothing.  Its all about profit.  You can be down 50% but profits could be up 20%.   Don't rely on cars sold to judge the car industry completely.  GM for one example is down 15 points but in reality those were cars so to rental companies mostly, with little to no profit last year.

    Go look at overall sedan sales versus CUV and truck sales and try again to tell us that they aren't taking a beating. Retail overall is down which does not include rental sales. This is from a few months ago. 

     

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/07/03/june-auto-sales.html

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 hours ago, regfootball said:

    A buddy who was leasing a highlander got a call from the dealer and they said they would pull ahead his lease, lower his payment, and next to nothing down.  he had been considering turning in the lease and buying used but the toyota whores got him........

    market share is important though, too.  Over time if your market share erodes, you can end up in a position where you no longer are a big enough player in the market.

    Or if your just really focused like Subaru a lot of incremental gains add up.

    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    Go look at overall sedan sales versus CUV and truck sales and try again to tell us that they aren't taking a beating. Retail overall is down which does not include rental sales. This is from a few months ago. 

     

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/07/03/june-auto-sales.html

    Except that some people are still selling sedans...

    Besides, Audi is up and Lincoln is down...what is not to like?

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    surreal1272
    22 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Or if your just really focused like Subaru a lot of incremental gains add up.

    Except that some people are still selling sedans...

    Besides, Audi is up and Lincoln is down...what is not to like?

    Don't care for Audi at all. Just overdressed VWs that are just too vanilla for me. Just my opinion though  

     

    And yes, a few sedans are selling but the key word there is "few". 

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Don't care for Audi at all. Just overdressed VWs that are just too vanilla for me. Just my opinion though  

     

    And yes, a few sedans are selling but the key word there is "few". 

    Different strokes for different Folks.

    Question is why are all three domestics at the bottom of the pile at the moment?

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    riviera74

    Given the probable sales slump (everywhere excluding Toyota), I wonder what vehicles are selling and where the profits are.  If the sales are higher-profit trucks/SUVs and crossovers, then maybe it is not so bad.  If sales are down and the marque is all cars all the time, that sounds like real trouble for that car brand.

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, riviera74 said:

    Given the probable sales slump (everywhere excluding Toyota), I wonder what vehicles are selling and where the profits are.  If the sales are higher-profit trucks/SUVs and crossovers, then maybe it is not so bad.  If sales are down and the marque is all cars all the time, that sounds like real trouble for that car brand.

    Trucks and Suvs are selling.  I am mostly concerned about GM right now.

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    regfootball

    GM doesn't have enough crossovers yet.  We might need to see Chevy for example go from Equinox, Trax, Traverse to 4, 5, 6 different crossovers.

    Honestly too, another reason sales are down.  Car prices are WTFH!!!!  We've hit the threshold of what consumers are willing to spend or can spend.

    The old bread and butter sedans were mid size or large and reasonably priced.  Manuf's only price the Escapes of the world affordably.  More crossovers that are Edge sized need to come down in price to fill that everyman's car role.  Just because its a crossover doesn't mean it automatically has to go for 50g.

    I don't mind the new market taking a bit of a dive.  It should send a message to the manuf's that overproduction has real consequences, and also it reminds them that price is an issue.

    Edited by regfootball
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    A Horse With No Name
    10 hours ago, regfootball said:

    GM doesn't have enough crossovers yet.  We might need to see Chevy for example go from Equinox, Trax, Traverse to 4, 5, 6 different crossovers.

    Honestly too, another reason sales are down.  Car prices are WTFH!!!!  We've hit the threshold of what consumers are willing to spend or can spend.

    The old bread and butter sedans were mid size or large and reasonably priced.  Manuf's only price the Escapes of the world affordably.  More crossovers that are Edge sized need to come down in price to fill that everyman's car role.  Just because its a crossover doesn't mean it automatically has to go for 50g.

    I don't mind the new market taking a bit of a dive.  It should send a message to the manuf's that overproduction has real consequences, and also it reminds them that price is an issue.

    I would be happier if the developed the crossovers they had better. Trax and Encore are a nice start, but they need to bring their A game with what they have.

    I almost would rather them simplify the lineup and work harder at making what they have A game contenders.

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    David
    12 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Different strokes for different Folks.

    Question is why are all three domestics at the bottom of the pile at the moment?

    For GM, I agree WTF is up with Sales, Main thing I can think of is that I have not seen any real marketing for GM auto's. I do not have TV in the traditional sense as I use HULU, VUDU and Netflix and so I see near ZERO commercials. Yet with that said, I also hardly seen any auto ads on my smartphone, computer or in the new streaming services.

    I believe GM is still stuck in the past of only advertising in regular TV and old style magazines and newspapers. GM needs to get with the times of Google and Bing and advertise through the new media's.

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    Robert Hall

    About the only place I see advertisements anymore is electronic versions of magazines on my tabby...with ad blockers on my phone and computer, I rarely ever see browser ads, and am a cord cutter also..only get streaming content through Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, etc. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    For GM, I agree WTF is up with Sales, Main thing I can think of is that I have not seen any real marketing for GM auto's. I do not have TV in the traditional sense as I use HULU, VUDU and Netflix and so I see near ZERO commercials. Yet with that said, I also hardly seen any auto ads on my smartphone, computer or in the new streaming services.

    I believe GM is still stuck in the past of only advertising in regular TV and old style magazines and newspapers. GM needs to get with the times of Google and Bing and advertise through the new media's.

    Agree with this.  i also think they need to position themselves with the youth market-none of my kids or their friends are into GM stuff.

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    Robert Hall
    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Agree with this.  i also think they need to position themselves with the youth market-none of my kids or their friends are into GM stuff.

    My buddy with the Volt and soon Bolt has two teenage sons--they have no interest in driving, they want self-driving cars..given how sharp they are technically, they probably will go work building self-driving car software eventually...

    different world out there than when I was in high school...getting my license then my first car was a Big Deal to me as a teenager...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    A Horse With No Name
    9 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    My buddy with the Volt and soon Bolt has two teenage sons--they have no interest in driving, they want self-driving cars..given how sharp they are technically, they probably will go work building self-driving car software eventually...

    different world out there than when I was in high school...getting my license then my first car was a Big Deal to me as a teenager...

    Agreed....!  My son is 19 and has little interest in getting his lsicence.

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    David
    26 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    My buddy with the Volt and soon Bolt has two teenage sons--they have no interest in driving, they want self-driving cars..given how sharp they are technically, they probably will go work building self-driving car software eventually...

    different world out there than when I was in high school...getting my license then my first car was a Big Deal to me as a teenager...

    Agree, I doubt any High school has an Auto Shop anymore. I loved mine growing up.

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    A Horse With No Name
    22 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Agree, I doubt any High school has an Auto Shop anymore. I loved mine growing up.

    Or any type of shop classes at all for that matter.  Teach to the test...it's cheaper and easier than actually teaching people to think and do work in the real world.

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    David
    9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Or any type of shop classes at all for that matter.  Teach to the test...it's cheaper and easier than actually teaching people to think and do work in the real world.

    Yes we have totally lost the art of how to teach our kids to actually think outside the box in how to build / make things. Wood Shop, Pottery Shop, Auto Shop all taught troubleshooting and forced people to think about how to fix mistakes, natural issues, etc. 

    Now with teaching to the test, we have given up how to think about how to actually do things differently. Troubleshooting skills are learned in these types of classes and now it seems to be lost to the easiest way to test out and minimal teaching by teachers. SAD! :cry:

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    A Horse With No Name
    4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Yes we have totally lost the art of how to teach our kids to actually think outside the box in how to build / make things. Wood Shop, Pottery Shop, Auto Shop all taught troubleshooting and forced people to think about how to fix mistakes, natural issues, etc. 

    Now with teaching to the test, we have given up how to think about how to actually do things differently. Troubleshooting skills are learned in these types of classes and now it seems to be lost to the easiest way to test out and minimal teaching by teachers. SAD! :cry:

    ...and why we keep falling further behind.  Looking at maybe taking an exchange student in the fall...I previously had an exchange student from Forbach France...he was 14 years old.

    He was fluent in German, french, English, and Japanese.  Out of boredom he wanted to learn a 5th language...

    Had a young lady named Olga from St Petersberg Russia who was equally talented...we are falling so far behind the rest of the world educationally.

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    David
    12 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    ...and why we keep falling further behind.  Looking at maybe taking an exchange student in the fall...I previously had an exchange student from Forbach France...he was 14 years old.

    He was fluent in German, french, English, and Japanese.  Out of boredom he wanted to learn a 5th language...

    Had a young lady named Olga from St Petersberg Russia who was equally talented...we are falling so far behind the rest of the world educationally.

    Agreed, have a Mongolian family that are friends, both their kids know Mongolain, Russian, both dialects of Chinese, Korean and Japanese. The son graduated from High School with his AA fully transferable to the UW here, he then went there and graduated 2 years later with my wife. He got two degrees, bachelors in Business from their Foster Business school and a Bachelor's in accounting. His senior year, he got paid by a CPA firm to sign with them. All he had to do was graduate, he now just finished passing his CPA exams for the state. 22 years old, dual degree and making $100K a year at this CPA firm. He just got pre-approved for a $500K  mortgage loan and is now looking for a house to move his parents, sister and him into.

    His sister is in the same program at Highschool and is going to follow in his same footsteps. Crazy smart kids but also driven to succeed. Way more driven than most kids today. America offers so much, yet so many kids are not taking advantage of grabbing the golden tickets that are there as it is too much work as I hear them complain about.

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    riviera74

    Maybe that is the real problem.  We as Americans can be so complacent, especially when it comes to doing more to improve ourselves. 

    It seems to me that the USA needs a proper antagonist to force a lot of us Americans to aspire to be more and do more than we are currently doing.  China Should be it, but for some reason the effect is not the same as in the old Soviet Union and the space race of the 1950s and 1960s.  It seems to me that China seeks economic cooperation that is one-sided, unlike the empire-building days of the former Communist bloc.

    I do not think our children are inspired to do much of anything beyond their smartphones, while in other countries their children want to live better than we do now.  How do we solve that issue?  We as Americans are also doing a poor job of getting the mass middle of adolescents and young adults to a bright future.  NOT ALL can or should go to college.  Whatever happened to a vocational education that you can learn marketable skills?

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    David
    38 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Maybe that is the real problem.  We as Americans can be so complacent, especially when it comes to doing more to improve ourselves. 

    It seems to me that the USA needs a proper antagonist to force a lot of us Americans to aspire to be more and do more than we are currently doing.  China Should be it, but for some reason the effect is not the same as in the old Soviet Union and the space race of the 1950s and 1960s.  It seems to me that China seeks economic cooperation that is one-sided, unlike the empire-building days of the former Communist bloc.

    I do not think our children are inspired to do much of anything beyond their smartphones, while in other countries their children want to live better than we do now.  How do we solve that issue?  We as Americans are also doing a poor job of getting the mass middle of adolescents and young adults to a bright future.  NOT ALL can or should go to college.  Whatever happened to a vocational education that you can learn marketable skills?

    Agree, Trade school is a far better choice for some than college. Bigger issue is that in the 70's we had career counselors and you had to test and see what interest and skill sets you had that would allow you to best be able to have a successful life. I do not find these in schools today so our school system FAILS our own students by not helping to guide them.

    Now I DO HOLD the PARENTS accountable for also recognizing the skills and smarts of their own kids to guide them in a solid direction but then you need the schools to help mold and continue to support the kids. The Kids are not getting the help they need from home or our public schools to succeed. Also for those that can afford private schools great, but that is not for everyone nor can we afford to go to a private school system in the US as this truly brings in a cast system.

    Public schools we need to be reinvesting in and paying far better wages to teachers so we can capture some of the brightest minds in molding and growing our future workers of America.

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    Robert Hall
    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Or any type of shop classes at all for that matter.  Teach to the test...it's cheaper and easier than actually teaching people to think and do work in the real world.

     

    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Agree, I doubt any High school has an Auto Shop anymore. I loved mine growing up.

    My high school in the Florida Keys had an auto shop class..I remember kids working on a mid '70s Marquis and a '76 Firebird Formula in there senior year...I didn't take shop, was on the college prep track taking AP Physics and Calculus...graduated w/ 24 hrs college credit.   Though I would have liked to have taken something where I worked w/ my hands rather than my head all the time...

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    A Horse With No Name
    7 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

     

    My high school in the Florida Keys had an auto shop class..I remember kids working on a mid '70s Marquis and a '76 Firebird Formula in there senior year...I didn't take shop, was on the college prep track taking AP Physics and Calculus...graduated w/ 24 hrs college credit.   Though I would have liked to have taken something where I worked w/ my hands rather than my head all the time...

    I think one should do both to be mentally and emotionally fulfilled. ironically, was debating about going to the work shop and making sawdust or reading a serious non fiction book when I got off work...

    16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Agree, Trade school is a far better choice for some than college. Bigger issue is that in the 70's we had career counselors and you had to test and see what interest and skill sets you had that would allow you to best be able to have a successful life. I do not find these in schools today so our school system FAILS our own students by not helping to guide them.

    Now I DO HOLD the PARENTS accountable for also recognizing the skills and smarts of their own kids to guide them in a solid direction but then you need the schools to help mold and continue to support the kids. The Kids are not getting the help they need from home or our public schools to succeed. Also for those that can afford private schools great, but that is not for everyone nor can we afford to go to a private school system in the US as this truly brings in a cast system.

    Public schools we need to be reinvesting in and paying far better wages to teachers so we can capture some of the brightest minds in molding and growing our future workers of America.

    Trade School is a dirty word any more....and we ahve millions of blue collar jobs that go wanting while college graduates are lining up for jobs in art history that pay 26 grand a year....with people two hundred grand in debt getting a degree for that at a private university.

    59 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Maybe that is the real problem.  We as Americans can be so complacent, especially when it comes to doing more to improve ourselves. 

    It seems to me that the USA needs a proper antagonist to force a lot of us Americans to aspire to be more and do more than we are currently doing.  China Should be it, but for some reason the effect is not the same as in the old Soviet Union and the space race of the 1950s and 1960s.  It seems to me that China seeks economic cooperation that is one-sided, unlike the empire-building days of the former Communist bloc.

    I do not think our children are inspired to do much of anything beyond their smartphones, while in other countries their children want to live better than we do now.  How do we solve that issue?  We as Americans are also doing a poor job of getting the mass middle of adolescents and young adults to a bright future.  NOT ALL can or should go to college.  Whatever happened to a vocational education that you can learn marketable skills?

    It is called personal responsibility..and while I tend towards the liberal end of the spectrum...the government can't fix this one.

    It has to be individual Americans taking responsibility. If we could just do with everything else what we do with craft beer...lots of individual providers, lots of quality, lots of choices, all made right here in America.

    But Millennial people are drinking less Beer...Damn them! the younger generation s crews up everything (just kidding, I like Millennials...)

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    David
    41 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I think one should do both to be mentally and emotionally fulfilled. ironically, was debating about going to the work shop and making sawdust or reading a serious non fiction book when I got off work...

    Trade School is a dirty word any more....and we ahve millions of blue collar jobs that go wanting while college graduates are lining up for jobs in art history that pay 26 grand a year....with people two hundred grand in debt getting a degree for that at a private university.

    It is called personal responsibility..and while I tend towards the liberal end of the spectrum...the government can't fix this one.

    It has to be individual Americans taking responsibility. If we could just do with everything else what we do with craft beer...lots of individual providers, lots of quality, lots of choices, all made right here in America.

    But Millennial people are drinking less Beer...Damn them! the younger generation s crews up everything (just kidding, I like Millennials...)

    Agree, both were very fulfilling and allows me to do so much around the house without paying someone else.

    Yes to some Trade school is a dirty word, but much like some of my nieces and nephews, College was not for them and Trade School is what gave them a decent paying job. 

    I agree with Personal responsibility, but also I hold the GOV accountable for this failure. Do we really need to spend a half a trillion on Defense or can we afford to take say 50 Billion and pay our teachers properly and hold them to a proper level of academic excellence with bonuses much like the private sector for helping kids to learn and exceed standards?

    Damn Millennials, they need to learn from our European Ancestors. I grew up in a strict German household with high standards for respect for my elders. Working out to be healthy and strong to defend our country, USA and when I saw my parents, grandparents, Aunts, Uncles drink, there was no hush hush, they explained it as an adult beverage, I got a sip to taste and understand what it was about as with all questions. Enough info to satisfy my curiosity. Open, clear communication as a kid, I did it with my own and they both graduated from college and are successful. So no reason to make Alcohol evil, but more about communicate what it is and what it is about.

    Moderation in Everything.

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    A Horse With No Name
    43 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Agree, both were very fulfilling and allows me to do so much around the house without paying someone else.

    Yes to some Trade school is a dirty word, but much like some of my nieces and nephews, College was not for them and Trade School is what gave them a decent paying job. 

    I agree with Personal responsibility, but also I hold the GOV accountable for this failure. Do we really need to spend a half a trillion on Defense or can we afford to take say 50 Billion and pay our teachers properly and hold them to a proper level of academic excellence with bonuses much like the private sector for helping kids to learn and exceed standards?

    Damn Millennials, they need to learn from our European Ancestors. I grew up in a strict German household with high standards for respect for my elders. Working out to be healthy and strong to defend our country, USA and when I saw my parents, grandparents, Aunts, Uncles drink, there was no hush hush, they explained it as an adult beverage, I got a sip to taste and understand what it was about as with all questions. Enough info to satisfy my curiosity. Open, clear communication as a kid, I did it with my own and they both graduated from college and are successful. So no reason to make Alcohol evil, but more about communicate what it is and what it is about.

    Moderation in Everything.

    Agree completely.

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    daves87rs

    Welcome to the tip end, everyone...

    I don't expect it to get better, as even some good deals going on will go unnoticed...

    Job fears are creeping up, and every industry is cutting back (as no one knows where things are going) With all the "issues" going on at the top, no one can tell where the economy is going. I was laid off a few months ago from the auto industry-and have watched friends cut from the retail and Health care industry as well....

    I normally don't get too personal on here, but I figure it would help understand where I am coming from. People are freaked out....doesn't want to make anyone run out and buy anything, that is for sure.

    I've gone from picking up a SUV this summer to looking for a cheap used sedan (few years old), as I want to see where things are going first.  I think many folks out there feeling the same way I do. If things do improve, then next year might be my SUV year. But playing it safe helps my keep my house and feel my family...just in case!

    I hate to say our own government may cause a recession here...I can only hope I am wrong. You simply can't make people feel this uncertain,,,,,,

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