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On 10/17/2019 at 6:27 PM, Robert Hall said:

Well, a 2dr with a fixed b-pillar and fixed window frames on the doors technically is a 2dr sedan.  Like the Fox Mustang 2dr notchback, it could have been described as a sedan...and in olden days, 2dr sedans were everywhere...

Any car with 2 (or more) side windows is a sedan, whether 2 or 4 door, whether a fixed pillar or a hardtop.
'coupe' as terminology refers to 'close coupled'; AKA a C6 Corvette. Technically a C7 Corvette would be a 2-dr sedan.
Some body style terms do modify these definitions tho.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

• The Tesla station by me is at a Panera, but the only other anything nearby is Costco & Target... but they're a hike apart. You're not going to get a shopping cart of bulks and wheel it all the way over to your cabled car.

• I don't like that refueling your vehicle 'strongly encourages' you to engage in commerce to avoid boredom.

• Wonder how the potential decade-long rolling blackouts in CA will affect EV sales there, Guess they can always install diesel generators at every station to power the 'chargers.

In regards to the third statement, that is why most charging points also have solar power panels. The ability to still work even when brown outs stop allowing gas pumps to operate.

Based on the photo on the homepage, I'm on board with this BMW looking like a Malibu.  It very much looks like one based on that vantage point.

As an aside, that's a great color on that BMW.  Exterior color choices today are pretty bad.  Interior color choices are even worse.  "Sporty" cars or trim lines are offering terra cotta colored leather but there aren't many exterior colors on the limited color charts that go with it.  I'm talking the up-line Focuses and Malibus, among others.

In defense of the BMW, I will say that the "opera window" C pillar kink is a little lower than in the Malibu ... and fleshed out with some chrome, so it looks better than does the kink at the midpoint of the arc on the Malibu.

And, yes, the line along the doors is much like that in the now gone Buick Verano.  And, damn, those rear tail lamps are ugly.

I just checked out what this BMW looks like inside.  The "laptop left open" info-audio center on the center stack is tamed down, so it's not bad.  The lighting effects on the doors are pimpy.  I don't like them.  The I.P. cluster is fairly cool.  The seats look comfortable.  Also, I like bucket seats with the perforation inside the headrest.  I remember them on the '97-'03 Grand Prixs.

I forgot where I read this back in the day, but it was prediciting that American and foreign car design intentions would intersect in the future.  They probably did so around the New Millennium.  They sure didn't around 1986, when there were Cadillac de Villes, Olds 98 Regency Broughams, and Buick Park Avenues with loose cushion velour seats with the car's emblem etched into the seating.  Now, if we're talking by about the time the Olds Intrigue rolled out, I'd say that car started arriving at the crossing of paths (tapered front end with no hood ornament, simple dash design, simple seat design) and wouldn't have offended any European.  Upon seeing the brochure, my relatives across the pond liked it.  It was the land yachts of the '70s and '80s that they criticized.

On 10/17/2019 at 8:33 PM, balthazar said:

Listen everybody, its like I’ve been saying for a few years; we’re in the 98th percentile of auto design progression. It’s not that brand are stealing from each other, its that its all been done and there’s just about no where left to go.

It's that the opposite of what has always happened is happening ... the Germans are looking at US / U.S. for auto design ideas!  This new BMW has borrowed a kit of parts from the Americans.

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

When I 'gas up', it takes maybe 5 mins. If I were to leave my vehicle, walking into the store, pick out a snack, pay & walk back, my vehicle is likely refueled & waiting. That means others may well be waiting on me to get my chimmi-chunga back to the vehicle and out of their way.
When one 'watts up', the owner wanders off and has a sit-down meal because they have 20-30-40 mins to waste. There's TIME to shop because there's a long period of inactive boredom to relieve. The 'refueling' time 'encourages' you to pay even more money.

Yes; you are not required to. You can sit in your car, stare at your phone. Or nap if you want/are sleepy. Or you can walk laps of the parking lot. All idle things... because you are WAITING. Or you can open your wallet.

It wouldn't be 'any different' if an EV charged in 5 mins.

Question. Can you fill up your gas tank at home?

I rarely ever go in the store when I get gas... pay at the pump, usually less than 5 minutes.  A quick task.  Recharging an EV at a charging station would be far less convenient.   Now a home charger, I could see that being advantageous.  

And location, location, location...the nearest gas station is maybe 1/2 mile, and I probably have 1/2 dozen more within a mile or two.    The nearest ChargePoint charging station (J1772) is 7 miles, the nearest CHAdeMO station is over 6 miles.  The nearest Telsa Supercharger station is 10 miles.   Not practical in my reality context.

When I 'gas up', it takes maybe 5 mins. If I were to leave my vehicle, walking into the store, pick out a snack, pay & walk back, my vehicle is likely refueled & waiting. That means others may well be waiting on me to get my chimmi-chunga back to the vehicle and out of their way.
When one 'watts up', the owner wanders off and has a sit-down meal because they have 20-30-40 mins to waste. There's TIME to shop because there's a long period of inactive boredom to relieve. The 'refueling' time 'encourages' you to pay even more money.

Yes; you are not required to. You can sit in your car, stare at your phone. Or nap if you want/are sleepy. Or you can walk laps of the parking lot. All idle things... because you are WAITING. Or you can open your wallet.

It wouldn't be 'any different' if an EV charged in 5 mins.

46 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• The Tesla station by me is at a Panera, but the only other anything nearby is Costco & Target... but they're a hike apart. You're not going to get a shopping cart of bulks and wheel it all the way over to your cabled car.

• I don't like that refueling your vehicle 'strongly encourages' you to engage in commerce to avoid boredom.

• Wonder how the potential decade-long rolling blackouts in CA will affect EV sales there, Guess they can always install diesel generators at every station to power the 'chargers.

To your second statement, isn’t that what convenience stores with gas pumps are selling? Convenience Stores are commerce too so I don’t see how this approach (said charging station) is any different from that approach (convenience stores with gas pumps). 

About 5 or 7 years ago, a friend of mine (since retired) worked as a mechanic for the County. I recall him being outraged when he had to move from paying 0% of his healthcare, to 2%. TWO PERCENT.

I certainly can see an argument where unionized workers are berated for 'not paying their fair share' if the average overall is 28%.

• The Tesla station by me is at a Panera, but the only other anything nearby is Costco & Target... but they're a hike apart. You're not going to get a shopping cart of bulks and wheel it all the way over to your cabled car.

• I don't like that refueling your vehicle 'strongly encourages' you to engage in commerce to avoid boredom.

• Wonder how the potential decade-long rolling blackouts in CA will affect EV sales there, Guess they can always install diesel generators at every station to power the 'chargers.

3 deep waiting,  seems to be backlogged at this Fred Meyers Tesla Charging station. Thisnis pretty common here be it Tesla or the generic charging stations. You have a major shop point, variety of food places and other retail. Makes it easy to charge, shop, eat and go.

Corrupt UAW donkey's... GM should make them meet in the middle with the Healthcare plan, 3% is ridiculously low, avg. for other U.S. workers is 28%! GM wanted 15% so they meet in the middle @9% still a steal for UAW and GM gets a slight break on yearly healthcare costs. GM is obviously going to get something else with the deal in way of plants they closed to remain that way. EV's and more automation will put many of these greedy uneducated UAW minions out of work within 10 years.

Automatic 3% yearly wage increase when GM is already the highest in the entire auto industry?

Longest work stoppage? 1998 UAW strike was 54 days, not as many workers involved, but so far was longer than this one. GM was totally shut down too, I worked at a big Chevrolet, Cadillac dealership at the time, it was insane. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/history-gm-strike-uaw-auto-workers

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That engine had a longer than usual run from them, due to customer demand.  They could have killed the V12 five years ago but I think it is good that they kept it as an option.  That didn’t stop them from introducing new V8s, since that V12 went into service AMG had the 5.4 supercharged V8, the 6.3 V8, 5.5 liter bi-turbo and the current 4.0 bi-turbo.  They kept moving forward.

“Demand”. Whatever excuse floats that hollow boat. 
 

16 hours ago, USA-1 said:

"Hummer package" "Leaking like a punched dike" You and your innuendo's

 What do you expect, I work in the High Tech Industry. We are all about the innuendo's!  

After all after this we get VR Hummer Packages!  

On 10/18/2019 at 10:20 PM, balthazar said:

Far right signage :

Awesome Robert has an Olds Dealership.  

On 10/19/2019 at 8:48 AM, riviera74 said:

Apparently, several of the rank and file hate the new contract.  There may be trouble ahead.

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2019/10/proposed-gm-uaw-contract-faces-current-of-criticism/

The comments seem to reinforce the greed of the assembly line workers.

Nothing says they have to stay, nothing says they cannot go to night school and get a better education for a better paying job. Wake up to the reality UAW Workers.

At the rate your going, a robot will replace you.

this 'tourx' idea.....i wonder if it wouldn't be better on a full size RWD/AWD chassis, and larger size like the Avenir concept.  They could have the Avenir sedan and a full size TourX ; i know it would still be a low volume product but the vison of a grand touring wagon i think would be even better if the car were larger, 2-4 inches wider, a few inches taller (seat H point 2 inches taller), and 6-8 inches more on the wheelbase.  Like CT6 sized....

Beautiful fall day here in Cleveland...saw a sharp gold '72 Cutlass convertible rolling w/ the top down.  

Went out this evening to see Bruce Springsteen's concert film 'Western Stars' (beautiful film, beautiful music) and parked next to a Gladiator Rubicon at the theatre...first I'd seen in the wild.

There was a great Jeep Wrangler ad before the film..

@balthazar I'm not chuckling at the hearse, but just chuckling at all the different conversions Cadillacs are subjected to to make hearses out of them.  I believe I may have even seen Cadillac hearses in Europe, IIRC.

@dfelt I believe it.  All the organized religions and their denizens have conventions and traditions at birth, in the teen years, upon marrying, and at death.  We had them growing up.  One convention (not really, just joking) was getting smacked over the knuckles with a ruler by a cantankerous nun.  However, if you're a good student, you get a pass to be a smart aleck every now and then ... and bypass the ruler.  

On 10/18/2019 at 3:18 PM, dfelt said:

This is exciting, while as a Separate brand to me does not make sense compared to a Hummer package on the GMC brand.

"Hummer package" "Leaking like a punched dike" You and your innuendo's

The HUMVEE(E)?

I know the H2 wasn't the H1 or HUMVEE, but would still be funny to see the eco-terrorists internally combust and burst into flames like all the Hummer H2's they've burned up

6 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

“Not a holder on”? Is that why they hung on to that V12 for so long (something you were singing praises over not too long ago)?

That engine had a longer than usual run from them, due to customer demand.  They could have killed the V12 five years ago but I think it is good that they kept it as an option.  That didn’t stop them from introducing new V8s, since that V12 went into service AMG had the 5.4 supercharged V8, the 6.3 V8, 5.5 liter bi-turbo and the current 4.0 bi-turbo.  They kept moving forward.

Thats a nice looking Hyundai that BMW released. Didn't know they were involved like that