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carman21

Ford 500

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I am not sure if this is true but, the 500 actually outsold the Chrysler 300 for the 2005 model year. I heard this on a radio show so I don't know the source unfortunately. If anybody could find out that would be great. If the 500 did outsell the 300 & the LaCrosse also did too. Then, besides V-8 power and RWD the 300 is a joke. Its ugly, with its K-mart shopping cart grill with chrome bling. The car makes you feel like your in a cage of steel,glass, and plastic. To make my point the car really sucks. Like most Muscle cars this one isn't as nice to live with as it is to drive. The 500 is a boring car but, its also cofortable. Its the first Ford aside from the Mustang and the GT40 that I've actually liked. I also like the Fusion. Ford claims the 500 is faster to 60 than the 3.5L 250hp V-6 300. That doesn't surprise me since my 3.8L 200hp V-6 Regal felt like it had more punch than the 3.5L V-6 300. The Ford is no performance car but, it does fel confident off the line and it does so in a much better package. I really can't wait for the 3.5L V-6 in the 500. That would make a good car a great car. Despite all the rants over this car it is a great car after all. I'd take it over any Taurus hands down. Even the Avalon doesn't really hurt this car.
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I REALLY don't think that's true--but the numbers might have been close. Like has already been posted, "technically" the Lacrosse outsold the 300, but that's simply a matter of a much higher rate of the Buick's going into rental agencies and other fleets. But as far as the 500, which I really like except for the homely look and front end, I just don't think it's true...........anyone have the true #'s?
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But as far as the 500, which I really like except for the homely look and front end, I just don't think it's true...........anyone have the true #'s?

[post="15066"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]


300---94K(thru Aug 05*)
500---75K*

However, sales rate in Aug. was 12k for the 500, 9.9K for the 300
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A fair comparison, I suppose, would be the sales for all three "Chicago cars", including the wagon variant (Five Hundred, Montego and Freestyle) compared to sales of all three LX cars, including the wagon variant (300, Charger and Magnum). As for me, I like the Five Hundred but I love the 300C. I have put almost 10,000 absolutely trouble-free miles on my 300C in just seven months time. It is fast, comfortable, and as good a turnpike cruiser as any car I've driven. And people still come up to my when I'm gassing it up to complement me on the car's looks.
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Ford claims the 500 is faster to 60 than the 3.5L 250hp V-6 300. That doesn't surprise me since my 3.8L 200hp V-6 Regal felt like it had more punch than the 3.5L V-6 300. The Ford is no performance car but, it does fel confident off the line and it does so in a much better package. I really can't wait for the 3.5L V-6 in the 500.

[post="15053"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Not really suprising. There is a substantial weight difference.

300 = 3700lbs, base
Regal = 3400lbs, base
Five Hundred = 3600lbs, base

The 3800 also has much better low end torque....

Don't know how to 'splain the Five Hundred though unless the 6-speed or CVT really help it that much compaired to the 4-speed auto in the 300. Edited by Oldsmoboi
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I'm sure the Impala outsold the PArk Ave too but that comparison is just as irrelevant. Dodge Magnum/Charger sales would make for a better comparison.
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[quote name='Jazzhead' date='Sep 16 2005, 10:17 AM']
A fair comparison, I suppose, would be the sales for all three "Chicago cars", including the wagon variant (Five Hundred, Montego and Freestyle) compared to sales of all three LX cars, including the wagon variant (300, Charger and Magnum).


ford trips....145k thru Aug
DCX trips....151k tru Aug....

Aug 24k Fords
Aug 19.5k DCXers
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A fair comparison, I suppose, would be the sales for all three "Chicago cars", including the wagon variant (Five Hundred,  Montego and Freestyle) compared to sales of all three LX cars, including the wagon variant (300, Charger and Magnum). 

As for me, I like the Five Hundred but I love the 300C.  I have put almost 10,000 absolutely trouble-free miles on my 300C in just seven months time. It is fast, comfortable, and as good a turnpike cruiser as any car I've driven.  And people still come up to my when I'm gassing it up to complement me on the car's looks.

[post="15109"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


In that case, does GM get to count all the W-bodies? Cause then we know who wins the sales race pretty quickly.
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Not really suprising. There is a substantial weight difference.

300 = 3700lbs, base
Regal = 3400lbs, base
Five Hundred = 3600lbs, base

The 3800 also has much better low end torque....

Don't know how to 'splain the Five Hundred though unless the 6-speed or CVT really help it that much compaired to the 4-speed auto in the 300.

[post="15162"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


the CVT can feel quite brisk. The 6 speed is a bit indecisive at times and slow to downshift. The CVT responds to the need with a proper ratio RIGHT NOW. The CVT is definitely quicker of the two on the 500. Once you hit above 45 mph or so, the 500 actually feels racy at times. Part of that is because the Duratec v6 is smooth and loves to rev. You get no signs of protest from the motor, so you can quickly get up to 80mph and it doesn't feel like its gonna hit the wall.

Some folks say the 500/Freestyle is slow off the line, I'd say its doesn't push you back into the seat and doesn't have the aggressive throttle linkage that GM does to make it seem quicker than it is. With the CVT is you lean into the pedal hard from the start, the CVT will then kick down its ratio and you get solid grunt off the line. Its just a matter of pushing the gas pedal down more than you may be used to to get the CVT to respond with a lower ratio right off the line. You don't necessarily need to keep the throttle down, just long enough to blip the revs up and make the CVT understand its gotta chage its ratio more radically than with just a trickle flow of fuel. When driving the CVT you have to pay a little more attention to where exactly you have your foot on the throttle pedal, to get the most out of it.

Having driven the Chicago trio 4 times now, I can totally say its legit the 7.5 0-60 with the 500 and CVT. My comparitive basis is a Magnum 3.5 RWD wagon, and I never thought that car was terribly responsive, engine/tranny/porky weight wise. I don't think that car could do 7.5 with the 3.5. maybe like a 7.9 or something. Edited by regfootball
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It's all about image. There used to be a drawing of the 300C=Chocolate and, directly below, 500=Vanilla. I couldn't find it, but you get the point. The 300C is cool and unique and powerful, whereas the 500 is bland and boring and weak.
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If image, coolness, uniqueness and power are all that mattered, the Camry wouldn't be the best selling car in the US.
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Here are some quotes from Car and Driver from a couple months ago. Ford likes to lie in their ads. Was there small print on the bottom of the screen? I remember the ad they had about the F150 beating the Ram, and then in the small print it said something like "up to 1500 RPM". So Dodge aired a commercial with no fine print that had both trucks drag racing with trailers, and it said something like after 20 test runs, the Ram won every time.

500
On the mechanical side, the aging 3.0-liter V-6 is good enough for fleet sales, but it'll never be a source of joy—0 to 60 takes 7.9 seconds, just a squeak ahead of the last-place Kia, accompanied by a thrashing racket in the upper rev ranges. A six-speed gearbox is a theoretical advancement, but this one makes rough and poorly timed shifts when you hustle.


300
And it wins you over on the road. It has confidence. It moves with certainty. There's nothing iffy about the steering and brakes. Even without the brawny Hemi, there is satisfying acceleration, although it's well back from the leaders of this group. The climb to 60 mph takes 7.3 seconds. A quarter-mile speed of 90 was traditionally the threshold of being a fast car. Many of today's models do better; four of this group's six meet or exceed that mark, including this 3.5-liter 300 at 15.6 seconds at 90 mph.

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Here are some quotes from Car and Driver from a couple months ago.  Ford likes to lie in their ads.  Was there small print on the bottom of the screen?  I remember the ad they had about the F150 beating the Ram, and then in the small print it said something like "up to 1500 RPM".  So Dodge aired a commercial with no fine print that had both trucks drag racing with trailers, and it said something like after 20 test runs, the Ram won every time.

[post="15310"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


ford's ad times were with the CVT. Car and Driver's test was a six speed. The CVT is noticeably quicker and more responsive. The CVT is now what's shipping on most 500's. I have absolutely no reason to believe the CVT 500 front drive can't hit the 7.5 mark.

Myself, the Magnum 3.5 really wasn't any fun to drive. It felt heavy and not at all nimble. It kind of felt like driving a van or bus or truck or something. The 500 at least felt like a car. Now, its possible the Magnum I drove only had the 4 speed auto, now they are shipping with 5 speeds. Maybe someone can see what Car and Driver tested, i bet it was a 5 speed 300. Edited by regfootball
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When was the last time anybody got excited about a Camry?  http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="15368"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Well, if it was their first (or first new) car ever, I could see it then. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif
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ford's ad times were with the CVT.  Car and Driver's test was a six speed.  The CVT is noticeably quicker and more responsive.  The CVT is now what's shipping on most 500's.  I have absolutely no reason to believe the CVT 500 front drive can't hit the 7.5 mark.

Myself, the Magnum 3.5 really wasn't any fun to drive.  It felt heavy and not at all nimble.  It kind of felt like driving a van or bus or truck or something.  The 500 at least felt like a car.  Now, its possible the Magnum I drove only had the 4 speed auto, now they are shipping with 5 speeds.  Maybe someone can see what Car and Driver tested, i bet it was a 5 speed 300.

[post="15359"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Well here's a quote from a site that tested the CVT:

In front drive, with CVT, the new Five Hundred can sprint from 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds. The 6-speed is the fuel economy champ, however, with impressive EPA ratings of 21 city and 29 highway. http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2403.shtml


7.5 sec. is slower than 7.3 sec.. The 300 Touring that C&D tested was an 05' meaning it was also just the 4-speed

The Magnum handles the best out of all of the LX's due to it's near 50/50 weight distribution:

Based on Motor Trends Figure 8 testing the Magnum is the best handling one of the group. The Charger RT did it in 27.7 seconds with an average g of .62 and the c did it in 27.8 at .62 g's. The Magnum clocked in at 26.9 at .65 g's. The magnum srt 8 also beats the 300 srt 8 the figure at with the magnum clocking in at 26.1 and the 300 at 26.3 I know the magnums weight ratio is almost perfect so this may have something to do with it. http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=17309

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Don't forget the fact that 2.7l 300s are fleeted generously and even Tourings are offered as 'premium' cars by rental agencies.
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There has been alot of pentup demand for a new midsize Buick from Buick fans, so it wouldn't suprise me if the LaCrosse outsold the 300 by a long shot.
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Don't forget the fact that 2.7l 300s are fleeted generously and even Tourings are offered as 'premium' cars by rental agencies.

[post="15502"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Appx 25% of 300's are fleet sales, while Ford has limited the Chicago triplets to less than 15% fleet sales (I believe actual numbers are 14%). Also, for the first 6 months, Ford did not allow fleet sales on the Chicago cars.

The good car in the 300's, is the 300C. This car is also significantly more expensive than even the most maxed out 500, thus, it should not even be considered in a comparison with the 500.

Frankly, I wouldn't really compare the cars at all. One is all about image.......... and the other is all about utility. Short of 4 tires and a steering wheel, there really isn't much that is comparable between them.
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Base models of the 500 and 300 are a legit matchup. Agreed about the 300C and even the 3.5l Touring to an extent. Placing a Touring next to a Montego is more realistic. I agree about the sizzle vs. the steak, though. Though the 300C is excellent in its own right, there is nothing compelling about the 2.7l 300s except for the cheap price and big brother looks.
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Frankly, I wouldn't really compare the cars at all. One is all about image.......... and the other is all about utility. Short of 4 tires and a steering wheel, there really isn't much that is comparable between them.

[post="15724"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


You don't have to compare em'.......Car and Driver already did, and the 300 Touring beat the Ford Fivehundred:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=9639
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You don't have to compare em'.......Car and Driver already did, and the 300 Touring beat the Ford Fivehundred:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=9639

[post="15975"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


myself, I'd be driving the 500. The 300 is a penis-extender car. I like the practicality of the 500 and I think the 300's styling is far too faddish. If for no other reason alone than the fact that the 500 has a nice airy greenhouse and the 300 is far too confined.

The 500 in that comparo has the 6 speed, had it had the CVT it would have done better. Edited by regfootball
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So any car that is eyecatching, powerful and RWD is a penis-extender car?
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