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HarleyEarl

2005 Toyota Scion tC

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http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103151


2005 Scion tC: Third-quarter update
NATALIE NEFF
Published Date: 9/19/05
THIRD-QUARTER UPDATE
AS-TESTED PRICE: $20,282
MILES DRIVEN (quarter/to date): 2913/12,552
FUEL MILEAGE (quarter/to date): 25.78/25.63
FUEL COST (quarter/to date): $252.46/$993.66
DAYS OUT OF SERVICE (quarter/to date): None/none
MAINTENANCE THIS QUARTER: 10,000-mile maintenance, including oil change (warranty); rotate tires ($14.95)

Through the summer months, we placed little demand on our smallest long-termer, the Scion tC. That is understandable given the additions to our long-term fleet—a family-friendly Land Rover LR3 and a fun-loving Porsche 911 Carrera S. As staffers stayed busy shuttling vacationing families and cruising on warm summer evenings, the Scion was relegated primarily to airport-transporter status.

Even so, most enjoyed it, from its handsome design to its peppy spirit. “Almost everyone who walked by the house commented on its good looks,” one staffer said. “The wheels get lots of approval.”

“The big tires really grip into the road. You can feel when the front end wants to push wide; you just back off a tad and balance it with the throttle,” says another. “That equals fun. That’s what we’re looking for.”

More than one editor, however, found the ball shifter—coated in a chrome-like finish—can get unbearably hot after the car sits too long in the sun. And when the shifter’s finish began peeling, we added cuts to the list of burns suffered by our hands.

We also resolved one issue that arose late last quarter. A few of us (as well as tC owners) found that when driving at low speeds in first gear, the tC has a tendency to buck, violently at times. We consulted with Scion engineers, who brought their computing magic to bear on our car—only to discover there is, apparently, no problem. Scion says this condition is caused by running the throttle at a 16-degree to 17-degree angle, at roughly 1400 rpm. That’s when the car’s computer believes it should be in idle mode and switches to a lean fuel mixture. The programming is an effort to reduce emissions at idle, but can cause an “idle map on and off” situation. That is the bucking.

The official line, from Scion: The tC is “reacting to driver input… it’s not a problem with the vehicle.”
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http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103151
2005 Scion tC: Third-quarter update
NATALIE NEFF
Published Date: 9/19/05
THIRD-QUARTER UPDATE
AS-TESTED PRICE: $20,282
MILES DRIVEN (quarter/to date): 2913/12,552
FUEL MILEAGE (quarter/to date): 25.78/25.63
FUEL COST (quarter/to date): $252.46/$993.66
DAYS OUT OF SERVICE (quarter/to date): None/none
MAINTENANCE THIS QUARTER: 10,000-mile maintenance, including oil change (warranty); rotate tires ($14.95)

Through the summer months, we placed little demand on our smallest long-termer, the Scion tC. That is understandable given the additions to our long-term fleet—a family-friendly Land Rover LR3 and a fun-loving Porsche 911 Carrera S. As staffers stayed busy shuttling vacationing families and cruising on warm summer evenings, the Scion was relegated primarily to airport-transporter status.

Even so, most enjoyed it, from its handsome design to its peppy spirit. “Almost everyone who walked by the house commented on its good looks,” one staffer said. “The wheels get lots of approval.”

“The big tires really grip into the road. You can feel when the front end wants to push wide; you just back off a tad and balance it with the throttle,” says another. “That equals fun. That’s what we’re looking for.”

More than one editor, however, found the ball shifter—coated in a chrome-like finish—can get unbearably hot after the car sits too long in the sun. And when the shifter’s finish began peeling, we added cuts to the list of burns suffered by our hands.

We also resolved one issue that arose late last quarter. A few of us (as well as tC owners) found that when driving at low speeds in first gear, the tC has a tendency to buck, violently at times. We consulted with Scion engineers, who brought their computing magic to bear on our car—only to discover there is, apparently, no problem. Scion says this condition is caused by running the throttle at a 16-degree to 17-degree angle, at roughly 1400 rpm. That’s when the car’s computer believes it should be in idle mode and switches to a lean fuel mixture. The programming is an effort to reduce emissions at idle, but can cause an “idle map on and off” situation. That is the bucking.

The official line, from Scion: The tC is “reacting to driver input… it’s not a problem with the vehicle.”

[post="19021"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


“reacting to driver input… it’s not a problem with the vehicle.”

there is a phrase in retail....

THE CUSTOMER is always right. toyota FKHDS.
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Well, it is the cause of the driver and it isn't.

Scion says this condition is caused by running the throttle at a 16-degree to 17-degree angle, at roughly 1400 rpm. That’s when the car’s computer believes it should be in idle mode and switches to a lean fuel mixture. The programming is an effort to reduce emissions at idle, but can cause an “idle map on and off” situation. That is the bucking.


So it's caused by the position the driver has the throttle at a given RPM but at the same time, it's a programming snafu on Scion's part.

See what I mean?

Ultimately, this mostly does fall on Scion. It's their responsibility.
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We have an ERP/Financial package that we purchased about 8 years ago that runs on the AS/400. It will do all sorts of crazy shit that would make a certain New York attorney general's pulse quicken. When we complain to the company that designed it their respose is quite similar. "Functioning as designed" Well maybe your design is wrong fuckwit!
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In this sort of circumstance, its better for a company to accept blame for their engineering.
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It's your fault, not ours.  Our cars are perfect!  http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="19035"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

here's another 'design feature' (warning: 10 pages so far, at toyotaownersclub.com/forums)



Do you think this will become as well known at BMW's slogan?

The ultimate driver error...
...buying a Thugota.



Sure, other manufacturers make mistakes, only Thugota & the Pope are 'infallible'. Edited by 2b2
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Kudos, dart, for being able to think clearly. I like your signature by the way...I stared at it for a few minutes, haha.
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Wow, my first year 2005 300/Magnum LX forum never had this many problems on it:

http://www.clubsciontc.com/modules.php?nam...e=viewforum&f=1

Apparently Scion tC's sound like rattle traps. :P

There's this one guy on there who says stuff like: "Well, the car was only $17,500.....what do you expect", and "You must suck at driving, because my car doesn't do that". What a helpful site where owners of the same car are arguing with each other.
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Well, it is the cause of the driver and it isn't.
So it's caused by the position the driver has the throttle at a given RPM but at the same time, it's a programming snafu on Scion's part.


It is toyota engineering that allows the throttle/RPM combination that makes the lil' shitbox buck. That the driver can put the throttle into that position (duh!) is not the driver's fault. Billions of cars have been built that do not ever once have this problem.
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ok-Not understanding here. Why the big deal? Usually a manual issue. Then you realize most people can't drive a stick. Problem Solved. :P
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ok-Not understanding here. Why the big deal?

Usually a manual issue.

Then you realize most people can't drive a stick.

Problem Solved. :P

[post="19404"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I find it hard to believe that long-term fleet drivers at AutoWeek don't know how to drive a stick.
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Can I please bring up the fact the Scion's were never rated that well to begin with? The two years jdpa's had them in their initial quality survey, the make has been below-average. Seeing complaints starting to pop up shouldn't be suprising. As for loyalists: just because a car company has historically done well quality-wise is no guarantee that they will continue to do so. The same applies in reverse: just because a company has historically been mediocre is no guarantee that they will continue to be mediocre. As my college stats prof explained: Q: If you flip a quarter 10 times and it lands on heads all 10 times, what are the odds that the quarter will land on heads with the 11th flip? A: Still just 50%. Previous results have no effect on future events.
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Gearshift knob peeling and bucking. Say that really fast 100 times. Edited by HarleyEarl
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ANY car will buck just above idle when under low throttle....

EDIT: manual, that is.

[post="19092"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


my $12k Hyundai Elantra, doesnt do that...

I can throw her in 2nd to start no bucking, 5th at 15mph no problem,no bucking, and still accelorate...

but of course, its not Toyotas fault... because other Scion owners dont have that problem...

in all seriousness, my Elantra doesnt ever buck unless I put it into a gear and its under idle (750)...
also she can idle in the first 2 gears without any bucking, flat or a small incline, and on a flat can idle in 3rd and 4th, and still maintain speeds... no bucking unless RPMS are under 750...
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