NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

In Australia, Rumor Mill Running Hot on Holden Exports to U.S. Market

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El Camino and Torana-based G6 Rumors
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Link to Original Article @ Edmunds Inside Line


MELBOURNE — If you took notice of all the rumors making the rounds in Australia right now, you'd be betting that the forthcoming VE Commodore Ute — or pickup — will be heading to the United States as the spiritual successor to the Chevrolet El Camino.

At the recent announcement of the VE Commodore-based Pontiac G8, Holden Chairman and Managing Director Denny Mooney conceded there is export potential for the VE Ute (due for release in Australia in September) but played down exports to the U.S. specifically. But he did point out that Holden has had a left-hand-drive ute in Detroit, a left-hand-drive version of the HSV Maloo, under evaluation since last year.

Another segment from this piece:

Another Holden rumor emerging Down Under is the potential for a medium-size, rear-wheel-drive Holden to become the next-generation Pontiac G6. At the 2004 Sydney Motor Show, Holden surprised showgoers by unveiling the TT36, a lurid magenta pink concept car, which set industry tongues wagging about a return of the much-loved Torana

What this means to you: With the VE now also the Pontiac G8, and talk of Commodore Utes becoming Chevy El Caminos, the rumor mill has now latched onto the prospect of that wild concept of morphing into a G6 for the U.S. and a new Torana for Australia.

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Sounds good but I hope GM doesn't flood the market with rwd cars to where they start loosing more market share. An awd version would have to be a must to keep the fwd loyals.

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Good. That would move Pontiac closer to what it needs to be, GMs enthusiast division. Looks like GM is planning A LOT less marketshare for Pontiac, but with desirable product, possibly greater profit from the division as a whole. Chevrolet and Saturn are all GM needs for mainstream marketshare.

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Sounds good but I hope GM doesn't flood the market with rwd cars to where they start loosing more market share. An awd version would have to be a must to keep the fwd loyals.

Screw the FWD loyalists, they can buy a Chevy or Saturn.

Though AWD would be a nice option, keeping FWD buyers isn't really a reason, IMO.

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As long as El Camino, Torana, and G6 are not as mind-numbingly bland as the Commodore/G8 are, then I would like to see them all. Otherwise, go back to the drawing board and don't come out until you have something dynamite (and despite the hot color, the 2004 Torana TT36, a preview of the Commodore, is not it). So wouldn't Torana/potential G6 actually be compact-sized since the Commodore/G8 are mid-sized. Sounds like a good move, putting Pontiac as the RWD performance line, but GM needs to make sure Malibu and Aura have styling pizazz-the current (2008/2007, respectively, and the Chevy/Saturn divisions in general) models show promise, but there's more to be done.

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Good idea wrong time, lets see how well the RWD G8 sells. I thin a RWD G6 would have it merits, but redesign the current one it and keep it FWD. I think 3 RWD models is enough, think about G8, GTO and Solstice. Having a FWD G6, and G5 makes sense to me. Pushing RWD is good but in moderation, GM still wants to sell some cars, RWD might not sell as well. Even to me I love the G8 RWD is holding me back some due to Iowa winters.

Edited by gm4life

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Hmmmmm, the Torana is built off the extended Kappa RWD platform. I also agree with the statements above "I hope GM doesn't flood the market with rwd cars to where they start loosing more market share." "As long as El Camino, Torana, and G6 are not as mind-numbingly bland as the Commodore/G8 are, then I would like to see them all."

Oh well time will tell! :AH-HA_wink:

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yeah, those who think Pontiac should be exclusively RWD have no sensitivity to the concerns of people or dealers in cold weather states. Regardless whether YOU think society can get by fine on RWD and buying a couple snows if you're a pussy, the truth of the matter is that its a consumer convenience and perception issue and something that legimately causes someone to buy something else either FWD or AWD available. You can all piss and moan about how we 'should toughen up and learn how to drive' and how 'we didn't need AWD when I was a man back in Siberia in 1974'. truth is you produce a product you need to remove all obstacles to people NOT buying a car to make it attractive to as wide a group as possible. Pontiac can focus on being enthusiast, however, the sheer size of Pontiac-BG group and the number of dealers requires that their cars still have volume appeal. Especially since BPG is also got a lot of rural dealers where they are the only ones who sell cars within like a 100 mile radius and also because many of your BPG volume dealers (like where Buickman sells) are in the northern climes.

We all want sports cars but first and foremost you still need to satisfy the need of getting around, and the method to which is does it has to appeal to a wide number of people.

Pontiac is in no position to be exclusionary yet.

I believe a G6 type sedan could succeed either as a FWD car as a volume seller or as a RWD based architecture, but it is essential that AWD be available then, as well. Especially since a car like the Fusion now has AWD available. People will come to expect AWD as being possible on the option sheet for some mid sizers. Since the G6 is your volume car, you cannot exclude anyone or your brand is toast. And Buick buyrs won't be shopping Pontiacs and vice versa.

Pontiac could survive with a G6 and G8 sedan only, but I would even be tempted to offer a G9. A larger G8, per se. I do not know if Pontiac needs a G4 or G5 sedan. Something akin to a WRX, I dunno. I think Saturn or Chevy may fill that rice type of niche better. But Pontiac at least needs the G6 in heavy volume and the G8 to be able to sell in decent volume. To keep the brand alive, their offerings although very sports oreinted and genuine, still need to maintain broad appeal.

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Like I said, people in cold weather states have plenty of other FWD choices from GM. Pontiac doesn't need a high-volume product if GM can get the Chevrolet and Saturn pulling their weight.

I would like to see AWD available, but not necessarily because I think GM needs to worry about keeping FWD-loyalists shopping at Pontiac dealers.

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Rear wheel drive all the way, baby! Just give it some style next round, please. :)

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Based on simple affordability, I have no problems with an Epsilon II G6. Can this (apparently imported) hypothetical car start at $17,000? If not, Pontiac doesn't need it.

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I doubt the Alphas would be imported, AU doesn't have the capacity to build all of them. I doubt it could start at $17k, but really, who cares. If you want a $17k family sedan, there's the Malibu.

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I doubt the Alphas would be imported, AU doesn't have the capacity to build all of them. I doubt it could start at $17k, but really, who cares. If you want a $17k family sedan, there's the Malibu.

Agreed. People are still stuck on the notion that Pontiac needs to sell in large amounts to be viable in the market. IMO, Pontiac needs to be completely unique in its offerings and price and volume shouldn't even be taken into consideration. Profitability for the division is more important than selling 100k G6 sedans per year.

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Why build the G6 on epsilon II? Do we really need the Aura, Malibu, and G6 on epsilon II? GM needs to stop making cars where they need to keep the price down. GM should make a car thats focused on it purpose, to the point where it doesn't need to start at $17,000. We already know the G8 will be moving up in price. Wont that leave a big gap between the G6 and G8?

Having this platform would also be better for the BTS instead of epsilon, and would help Cadillac pick up some sales in Europe.

Aura and Malibu should easily make up for the sales lost by making the G6 RWD, while the G6 could be fleeted less and sold at higher prices.

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yeah, those who think Pontiac should be exclusively RWD have no sensitivity to the concerns of people or dealers in cold weather states. Regardless whether YOU think society can get by fine on RWD and buying a couple snows if you're a pussy, the truth of the matter is that its a consumer convenience and perception issue and something that legimately causes someone to buy something else either FWD or AWD available. You can all piss and moan about how we 'should toughen up and learn how to drive' and how 'we didn't need AWD when I was a man back in Siberia in 1974'. truth is you produce a product you need to remove all obstacles to people NOT buying a car to make it attractive to as wide a group as possible. Pontiac can focus on being enthusiast, however, the sheer size of Pontiac-BG group and the number of dealers requires that their cars still have volume appeal. Especially since BPG is also got a lot of rural dealers where they are the only ones who sell cars within like a 100 mile radius and also because many of your BPG volume dealers (like where Buickman sells) are in the northern climes.

We all want sports cars but first and foremost you still need to satisfy the need of getting around, and the method to which is does it has to appeal to a wide number of people.

Pontiac is in no position to be exclusionary yet.

I believe a G6 type sedan could succeed either as a FWD car as a volume seller or as a RWD based architecture, but it is essential that AWD be available then, as well. Especially since a car like the Fusion now has AWD available. People will come to expect AWD as being possible on the option sheet for some mid sizers. Since the G6 is your volume car, you cannot exclude anyone or your brand is toast. And Buick buyrs won't be shopping Pontiacs and vice versa.

Pontiac could survive with a G6 and G8 sedan only, but I would even be tempted to offer a G9. A larger G8, per se. I do not know if Pontiac needs a G4 or G5 sedan. Something akin to a WRX, I dunno. I think Saturn or Chevy may fill that rice type of niche better. But Pontiac at least needs the G6 in heavy volume and the G8 to be able to sell in decent volume. To keep the brand alive, their offerings although very sports oreinted and genuine, still need to maintain broad appeal.

Agreed, what happens after all the gear heads get their exclusively RWD car from Pontiac, then what? The demand for those who want a Pontiac RWD will last about 6 months to a year, then what does Pontiac have to offer a regular consumer? My opinion is if Pontiac goes all RWD it will be signing its own death warrant. Move over Oldsmobile, we will be burrying your Pontiac sister soon, but maybe that's exactly what Bob Putz wants. IMO <_<

Edited by Pontiac-Custom-S

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Agreed, what happens after all the gear heads get their exclusively RWD car from Pontiac, then what? The demand for those who want a Pontiac RWD will last about 6 months to a year, then what does Pontiac have to offer a regular consumer? My opinion is if Pontiac goes all RWD it will be signing it's own death warrant. Move over Oldsmobile, we will be burrying your Pontiac sister soon, but maybe that's exactly what Bob Putz wants. IMO <_<

Pontiac will be a cheap BMW. The role of Pontiac is going to be to appeal to the enthusiasts, and not necessarily the masses. GM has Chevy and Saturn to appeal to current G6 buyers. If GM is making billions, there will be no reason to kill Pontiac whether they're selling their current volume or merely 200k car/year.

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Why build the G6 on epsilon II? Do we really need the Aura, Malibu, and G6 on epsilon II?

Don't forget that Lacrosse will also be on Epsilon II. Why would BPG dealers need two Epsilon II cars in the same showroom?

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