C & D Pickup Test April 07

[chevelle454]

I just got the new C & D. Here are the results of the Pickup test.

5. Ford f-150

4. Dodge Ram

3. Toyota Turdra

2. Nissan Titan

1. Chevy Silverado

[AAS]

Nice to see the Silverado in 1st, but I find it hard to believe the F-150 placed last.

[BlkHhr104]

Wah, the Ram is a horrible truck, the F-150 is far better IMO.

[gm4life]

I agree the Ram should have gotten last. Hmm I am a little suprised the Tundra got 3rd and the Titan beat it. Way to go Chevy you created another winner!

Edited February 22, 2007 by gm4life

[Variance]

Interesting to note: This is the second time the brand-new Tundra has been bested by the pre-refreshed Titan (first was in Popular Mechanics in which the Titan beat everything). The Titan was a 2007, right?

The Nissan fan in me is pleased.

[balthazar]

If I actually took stock in these 'rankings', I would be aghast to see the F-150 place below the crapbox nissan. It's only negative is it's relatively low on power, but it's still a damned nice truck with way more options than the nissan.

[Intrepidation]

The Ram is not a crap truck. Of course what else is new...typical Chrysler bashing. It has more power than the F-150, more gears than the F-150 and the Silverado, sharp handling (for a truck), it was the first (I think) to have a NAV system offered, and it has more safety feature than the F-150. I think the design of the F-150's interior is nicer, and it's a nice truck, but the Ram is far from a piece of crap.

[Variance]

If I actually took stock in these 'rankings', I would be aghast to see the F-150 place below the crapbox nissan. It's only negative is it's relatively low on power, but it's still a damned nice truck with way more options than the nissan.

I'd hardly call the Titan a "crapbox".

And when it comes to features, I think it's a wash. The Titan has some things you can't get on the F-150 and vice-versa.

[balthazar]

Titan cannot touch the F-series for configuration choices. That alone should figure directly into any evaluation/comparison scoring, tho of course, it doesn't.

I've seen a few titans up close- the interiors are comparitively low-rent and the reported quality issues are nothing to gloss over.

[Variance]

Titan cannot touch the F-series for configuration choices. That alone should figure directly into any evaluation/comparison scoring, tho of course, it doesn't.

Yeah, I know the Titan doesn't come in HD versions yet.

Comparing apples to apples, (1/2 tons) come spring the only things the Titan will be lacking are a regular cab and V6 (and the V6 is rumored to be coming later).

I've seen a few titans up close- the interiors are comparitively low-rent and the reported quality issues are nothing to gloss over.

Interior...again, improved on in the 2008 model and I trust the earlier build bugs have been ironed out by now.

[caddycruiser]

Gee, guys...C&D picks a GM for the top spot, and all is well in the world. Wait until the next comparo when one gets mid-pack and all will be calling their bluff and saying "X..." paid them. Doesn't work that way, and if the merits are there, the merits are there.

That said, GREAT thing, and I can't wait to read it. Sounds like a logical breakdown, even if the Ford is still a very good truck, and the Titan is still stingy in the overall solidity category.

[Northstar]

Good job by GM. I would probably have switched the Titan and Tundra and F-150 and Ram, but perhaps the Ram and Titan have improved while the F-150 has not and the Tundra is rather average aside from performance (and, last I checked, trucks are for towing and hauling, not racing).

[balthazar]

Variance :>>"Comparing apples to apples, (1/2 tons) come spring the only things the Titan will be lacking are a regular cab and V6 (and the V6 is rumored to be coming later)."<<

Don't forget a LB, there is NO 8-foot bed available. Ford also offers 5 trim levels on the F-150, how many does nissan offer? Apples to apples is not going to cut it here; picking a single configuration and declaring the model line superior to another, vastly more variable line is micro-analyzing, IMO. The name of the game in trucks is versatility and that is how they should be judged.

>>"Interior...again, improved on in the 2008 model and I trust the earlier build bugs have been ironed out by now."<<

Not talking about build quality, but cost-cutting via design & materials- if it hasn't received an interior refresh or redesign, I would assume those deficiencies are still there; I would not assume they're all magically gone merely because time has passed, even if it's japanese. :wink:

[Variance]

Variance :>>"Comparing apples to apples, (1/2 tons) come spring the only things the Titan will be lacking are a regular cab and V6 (and the V6 is rumored to be coming later)."<<

Don't forget a LB, there is NO 8-foot bed available. Ford also offers 5 trim levels on the F-150, how many does nissan offer?

There will be 8-foot beds available for the king cabs in the spring (7-foot on the crew cabs) in addition to the current 5.5' and 6.5' beds.

Nissan has four trims: XE (base/work trim), SE (well-equipped/intermediate), PRO-4X (off-road) and LE (high-end/luxury). The comparable trim the Titan lacks is the STX (stepside) trim which no one else has either these days.

Apples to apples is not going to cut it here; picking a single configuration and declaring the model line superior to another, vastly more variable line is micro-analyzing, IMO. The name of the game in trucks is versatility and that is how they should be judged.

I don't think they were saying by beating the F-150, the Titan beat the F-250 through 650 as well.

>>"Interior...again, improved on in the 2008 model and I trust the earlier build bugs have been ironed out by now."<<

Not talking about build quality, but cost-cutting via design & materials- if it hasn't received an interior refresh or redesign, I would assume those deficiencies are still there; I would not assume they're all magically gone merely because time has passed, even if it's japanese. :wink:

Guess all we can do is wait and see.

[ocnblu]

This is a thread about the GMT900 winning another comparison test. This is a GM forum. And all we can do at hearing the news is spar over who should have been 2nd, or 3rd in the pecking order? Are we not proud of the new GM truck?

Also, from now on, I am calling the new Toyota truck the "Turdra" after reading the OP. Because it fits.

[balthazar]

I for one have no argument over who won first. :wink:

[Z-06]

After looking at the 5 best trucks for 2005. I was not a least bit surprised for C&D to choose the Silvy.

Good job GM. Thanks CD for putting some of my faith back in you with this and the last issue when you compared the Z06 with the 911 GT2 and Exige and making Z06 a winner without having the Gotta Have It and Fun to Drive Factors on its side.

[Z-06]

Hey Ocn. I called it the Trudra first. Read my previous posts when I posted its pictures naming it the Son of a Pig. Credit should go to me too. LOL

[CARBIZ]

Obviously, I am thrilled that the Silverado was #1, but all of these comparisons tend to be very much "flavor of the month" oriented. None of these trucks on the list are "bad," and who likes what is going to be more subjective than even a car comparison. Also, it largely depends on what you are doing with the truck: pleasure or business.

I think that in the pick up truck market appearance (subjective as hell) and loyalty play major factors. How many engine/transmission/cab configuations/box sizes that are available only looks good on paper and confuses a lot of people. Knowing your target market is becoming ever more crucial.

GM and Ford with their nearly 1 million annual sales each can afford to be all things to all people. Nissan and Toyota have to be a little more selective.

One of the greatest ironies may be that if GM and Ford's truck dominance erodes and the market splinters (as it has in all the other segments), the consumer may end up with LESS choice than before, as companies can no longer afford to innovate in a segment that becomes too fractured and unprofitable. Bringing a new truck to market costs a lot of money, obviously.

There is a crisis looming, and it looks not unlike the mid-50s when Ford and Chevy slogged it out, wiping out many smaller independents. Fifty years later, Ford and Chevy are fighting for survival and the future (next three years) will mirror the late '50s, IMO.

[chevelle454]

One funny thing about the article. the Silverado outbrakled the Turdra even though Toycrapa always brags about the brakes in the Turdra

[toyoguy]

Ford Highs: Limo space back in the crew compartment, plush interior details, throne-like front bucket seats.

Ford Lows: Shaky steering column, weak engine, torpid handling, heavy understeer when the going gets brisk.

Verdict: Plush inside, not much load space behind: Think Passenger Truck.

Ram Highs: Control-tower view from the seat, quick-reflex engine, clever paraphernalia places in the cab.

Ram Lows: Need an elevator for boarding, quivery structure, Kmart-cheap interior plastic.

Verdict: Exellent storage and tie-down details make this a trucker's truck.

Tundra Highs: Major horsepower, supportive front buckets, slick slide-out mirrors, off-road chassis muscles.

Tundra Lows: Front tow loops down in the mud, intrusive stability control, major understeer when you push.

Verdict: The muscle truck - no bully will kick sand in this Tundra's face.

Titan Highs: Snorty engine, quick steering, neutral balance in the twisties, perfectly damped tailgate hinges.

Titan Lows: Squeaky-flexy over the rough stuff, exhaust roar never stops, jumpy throttle, short cargo bed.

Verdict: A lovable puppy of a truck, fun despite its imperfections.

Silverado Highs: Tightly responsive steering and brakes, rigid body structure, American-luxo interior styling, plush ride.

Lows: Cheesy mirrors, low and vulnerable plastic spoiler, wind noise, cockpit storage bins lack imagination.

Verdict: A sweet-driving pickup that's big on action, light on serious-hauler details.

Final point tally:

Silverado - 207

Titan - 199

Tundra - 193

Ram - 184

F-150 - 172

[toyoguy]

One funny thing about the article. the Silverado outbrakled the Turdra even though Toycrapa always brags about the brakes in the Turdra

no, they point out the size of the brakes. and size of brakes has nothing to do w/one time stopping performance.

You'll appreciate large area brakes under towing when the competitor's braking hardware has overheated.

C&D is one magazine. Others data actually points that they are incorrect.

the Crew Max Tundra in PM outstopped the unladen Silverado even w/1000lb ballast.

It outbraked the Silverado in edmunds.

It outbraked it's competitors on Toyota's website using an independant testing agency.

And if I'm not mistaked it outbraked teh Silverado in TruckTrend.

[pow]

I love their infatuation with storage bins. Last time, for the family sedan comparo, it was on dials.

[Z-06]

Do I hear somebody pooh-poohing?

Looking at the point tally, it is no way that it was a close call with C&D picking its favorite whore.

It was a slaughter that Silverado instigated. Even Tundra behind the Titan by 6 points says something how "good" the truck is.

[Northstar]

What trims were tested?

The Tundra seems to be the best performer in all tests, but only Edmunds so far, it seems, thinks to think performance is the most important part of a pickup truck. Quite obviously, trucks are for hauling stuff, not running around racetracks.

[caddycruiser]

Overall, I'd say it's just the GM's that have the most bases covered of all. The most rigid and tight frame and body, most well crafted finishes and materials inside and out, strong, refined, and not excessively thirsty drivetrain, etc., etc. It's like as always. Others do some things clearly better, or at least more unique, like styling and even some features, but at the end of the day the GM trucks are the most real-world, everyday friendly.

Now, if they could just take that and add in even more of what's best about each of the others, whether it be the downright brute force of the Toyota and Nissan's engine and transmission, more interior room like them as well, or more adventurous styling, they'd REALLY be over the top. As is, there's still at least a few things that keep some people not dead set on one, and looking to the other brands, for whatever reason.

Oh, and now that the High's and Low's of each were posted, I can really, trully agree that all of those points and summaries are exactly on point, particularly from my experience with each.

Me, for example, I prefer the size, look, and drivetrain of the Tundra the most, but when it comes right down to it, I'd have to have the structural rigidity and refinement of the GM's thrown in with that combo. Somebody make that, and I'll buy :AH-HA_wink:

Edited February 24, 2007 by caddycruiser

[ocnblu]

The newest issue of Motor Trend also chooses the better truck, Silverado, over the Turdra in a head-to-head test.

[gm4life]

Really I want mine to come.

[ponchoman49]

I'm shocked to not see the Tundras horrible dash in the cons section. Not only does it look totally goofy, but it compromises by having controls out of reach, a Nav screen that only the passenger can use, small instrument guages and what looks like 2 dashes melded into one. Kudos on the Silverado it deserved the win because it is a far superior truck. When GM finally offers the 6 speed automatic it will be even better.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I love their infatuation with storage bins. Last time, for the family sedan comparo, it was on dials.

The products are so good these days that they're pretty much grabbing at straws... Which (ding, ding, ding,) makes the auto rags pretty much irrelevant. Which is why 1) they're getting more and more opinion based and &#036;h&#33;ty (when it comes to analysis) and 2) They're not doing so well numbers-wise.

Luckily, most people know this as fact.

Funny how the "performance enthusiasts" (READ: Fat, bald yuppie assholes) at C&D rate cars on such cheesy criteria.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What trims were tested?

The Tundra seems to be the best performer in all tests, but only Edmunds so far, it seems, thinks to think performance is the most important part of a pickup truck. Quite obviously, trucks are for hauling stuff, not running around racetracks.

Unfortunately, Edmunds has a big audience, especially on the coasts (Where GM needs to win some/keep some share)

But even they said good things about the Silverado overall. (Remember my huge post about why the Silvy should've won)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If I actually took stock in these 'rankings', I would be aghast to see the F-150 place below the crapbox nissan. It's only negative is it's relatively low on power, but it's still a damned nice truck with way more options than the nissan.

The rating should've been this way:

1) Silverado

2) F-150

3) Titan

4) Tundra

5) Ram

I think the F-150 placed last because EVERYONE has it in for Ford. I just find it funny that the F-150 kicked the Titans ass all over the place when it was introduced, yet now, the essentially SAME trucks rank with the Titan besting the F-150 by 3 whole slots.

Thats biased and it's

Hopefully, the F-150 is a strong enough name to not be harmed by bad PR such as this. But, Ford needs to update with more power and some freshness. It's just another knife in the back of Ford trying to push the company over the edge.

[Variance]

I think the F-150 placed last because EVERYONE has it in for Ford. I just find it funny that the F-150 kicked the Titans ass all over the place when it was introduced, yet now, the essentially SAME trucks rank with the Titan besting the F-150 by 3 whole slots.

Except it didn't.

Edmunds 2004 Fullsize Truck Comparison -- Titan 1st, F-150 3rd: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=101958

Car and Driver 2004 -- Titan 1st, F-150 2nd: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/76...-4x4-page6.html

Truck Trend 2005 -- Titan 1st, F-150 3rd: http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup...ison/index.html

[thedriver]

I am surprised that being C&D they left out their recent favorite "truck' the Honda Ridgeline.

Other than that, the results aren't unexpected, especially for the Ford and Dodge. They are the oldest and most outmoded in this test, especially the Ford which seems to get by on it's history rather than current abilities.

[balthazar]

Only area of valid criticism with the F-150 is the power levels- everywhere else it's still thoroughly competitive. I for one still find it completely relevent and I'd be driving one now if the great deal on my Silverado hadn't come along.

[Screaming Trees]

I think it's great! It's another award I can brag to all the Ford guys about where I work.

They tell me everyday how much my truck sucks because its a Chevy.

I thought the Ram should have been a little higher. Maybe because I owned one once before and I really liked it. and even though it wasn't a part of the test I really like the mega-cab its got a lot of room plus you can recline the back seats.

[The O.C.]

Nice to see the Silverado in 1st, but I find it hard to believe the F-150 placed last.

I find it hard to believe they ranked the Titan ahead of the Tundra...!

[The O.C.]

The Ram is not a crap truck. Of course what else is new...typical Chrysler bashing. It has more power than the F-150, more gears than the F-150 and the Silverado, sharp handling (for a truck), it was the first (I think) to have a NAV system offered, and it has more safety feature than the F-150. I think the design of the F-150's interior is nicer, and it's a nice truck, but the Ram is far from a piece of crap.

While I think the Ram is the nicest-looking truck (exterior only) on the market, that platform is now way past it's prime. Plus, it's "new" interior introduced a year or two ago is now clearly made of worse materials and fit-and-finish than even the nasty Titan's......

[AAS]

I find it hard to believe they ranked the Titan ahead of the Tundra...!

Me too... but I can live with that one

[mrlizzzard]

One funny thing about the article. the Silverado outbrakled the Turdra even though Toycrapa always brags about the brakes in the Turdra

I'm not too crazy about CD testing or any other rags testing.First look at the Ridgeline went from MT truck of the year to $6000 rebates.How can this be.I swapped a Ridgeline that was a great car trying to be a truck for a new 900 Chebby Silverado that is the king of trucks!