1950s GM cars trivia

[Sixty8panther]

~ What makes the 1958 model year General Motors cars

different from The 1950-1957 & 1959-up cars from GM?

[Sixty8panther]

You've almost answered the question...

55-57 was in a sense one generation of

car while 59-60 was another generation

but the 58s were one year only.

[Oracle of Delphi]

The 1958s were longer, wider and heavier than the 1960-1957 models. The 1959's were a longer, lower and wider than the 1958s because some marketing research said that was what consumers wanted. I think it was also part of Bill Mitchel's push to put all the vehicles on the same basic bodies. IIRC it put the Ford folks into a panic since GM was coming out with two different bodies in two years, which was unheard of at the time.

Do you mean 1950 - 1957 models?

[Robert Hall]

You've almost answered the question...

55-57 was in a sense one generation of

car while 59-60 was another generation

but the 58s were one year only.

I know the '58 Chevy and '58 Pontiac were completely different from their '57s, but weren't the '58 B-O-Cs (or some of them) updated '57s?

[Drew Dowdell]

I know the '58 Chevy and '58 Pontiac were completely different from their '57s, but weren't the '58 B-O-Cs (or some of them) updated '57s?

I thought that too. The B-O-C were just updated sheetmetal and minor hardware changes.

[Sixty8panther]

Revised frames & greenhouses are the most obious one year only item.

[balthazar]

Not sure about chassis's for B-O-C, but all sheetmetal & all interiors were changed for '58. Even some glass features changed (B & O dropped the 3-piece backlight). Additionally, many other features, such as transmissions & brakes were also new in some instances... but in general it could be said, yes: the '58 Buick-Olds-Cadillac were more refreshes than complete redesigns.

However, in that everything you see from '57-58 is markedly different, I would still call them all 1-year only designs.

'58 has another distinction: the last year you could push-start a GM automatic car.

Edited May 3, 2007 by balthazar

[Sixty8panther]

Balthazar:

How is it possible to push start an automatic pre-59?

What is the mechanical explanation to this?

I would think the torque converter is what makes push starting an issue...?

[Drew Dowdell]

'58 has another distinction: the last year you could push-start a GM automatic car.

Could you push start a Dynaflow?

[balthazar]

>>"How is it possible to push start an automatic pre-59? What is the mechanical explanation to this?"<<

Not an expert here, but I've both read and unintentionally experienced this: pre-'59 HydraMatics still have a rear pump in the trans that enable's push-starting.

>>"Could you push start a Dynaflow? "<<

Yes: the directions are in the B-59 owner's manual.

[Sixty8panther]

Hey Balthy:

Could you give me a quick synopsis?

I've yet to buy an owner's manual for my B-59,

even a reprint would be fine if I find one.

[balthazar]

Synopsis of push-starting a B-59?

"Place control shift lever in Neutral (N) until car speed reaches approximately 15 MPH, then shift into Low (L). Continue to increase car speed until engine cranks. After engine starts, return control lever to Neutral (N) for engine to warm up. It is safer to push car than tow it."

TwinTurbine's L is a plantery gear, independant of the 'D' stator blades...ie: TT cars do not accelerate thru L when in D.

Original shop & owner's manuals are n eBay frequently- usually $15 for the OM and maybe 45 for the SM.

[Drew Dowdell]

Synopsis of push-starting a B-59?

"Place control shift lever in Neutral (N) until car speed reaches approximately 15 MPH, then shift into Low (L). Continue to increase car speed until engine cranks. After engine starts, return control lever to Neutral (N) for engine to warm up. It is safer to push car than tow it."

TwinTurbine's L is a plantery gear, independant of the 'D' stator blades...ie: TT cars do not accelerate thru L when in D.

Original shop & owner's manuals are n eBay frequently- usually $15 for the OM and maybe 45 for the SM.

ah, so it's not something you and 2 friends do by foot...unless you're facing down hill.

[balthazar]

Nope. Also fairly certain it would earn you a ticket today.

Better fall back before the dead Buick drops into L, too.

[Brougham-Holiday]

They we part of GM's 50th ann.

[Drew Dowdell]

Nope. Also fairly certain it would earn you a ticket today.

Better fall back before the dead Buick drops into L, too.

otherwise you're eatin fin?

[A Horse With No Name]

We can't eat fin at any cost...

The 58 pontiac Ragtop is a great looking car. I am almost as partial to ragtops as sixty8 is to pillarless hardtops.

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

Thanks Balthazar.

That's crazy that the B-59 can be push-started... I had no idea.

[A Horse With No Name]

kind of a cool feature, though. Probably a lot of people in the 1950's were used to push starting cars as they had just switched from 6v to 12v systems. I think Ford switched in 56, not sure what year G.M. and Chrysler switched.

The B-59 of course came with 12V but I wonder if people expected to be able to push start a car?

I think Volkswagen used 6v into the sixties IIRC.

Chris

[balthazar]

Well, push-starting was a feature of both manuals & many automatics since the beginning, so yea; I guess in that sense it was expected.

[CMG]

Powerglide cars with rear pumps can be push started to, I've done it myself. I think the consensus is 15-20mph, depending on the gears.

1958 Chevys were a one year only deal because the "opposition" came out with long low cars in 1957. 1959 cars were rushed out in response.

What did the early 1955 Chevy V8 cars come produced WITHOUT?

If you KNOW, you won't need a hint....

[toesuf94]

I can also say that on the Buick for '57 was the last year for forged a-arms...in '58 they were stamped steel.

[balthazar]

Uppers only, right? : lower arms are still forged in '59.

[Sixty8panther]

CMG: oil filters?

[CMG]

CMG: oil filters?

Haha

YUP!!!!!!!!

The provision for an oil filter was overlooked!

[balthazar]

Not overlooked... a number of motors in this time period had optional oil filters... '58 Pontiac 370, for example. Earlier, no oil filter was commonplace- there's none on my '46-48 Ford flathead.

Edited July 20, 2007 by balthazar

[Sixty8panther]

Yup, my buddy Duffy who lives in Arizona & daily drives a

1961 Rambler American has the oil filter "option".

[CMG]

Not overlooked... a number of motors in this time period had optional oil filters... '58 Pontiac 370, for example. Earlier, no oil filter was commonplace- there's none on my '46-48 Ford flathead.

It was introduced as soon as possible, as there was no PROVISION for an oil filter. It showed up late the very same year with the filter provision, and never was produced without an oil filter provision again. First year for an engine the company would be built on (IMO) wasn't intended to have NO oil filter option? That woulda been crazy, would it not?

[balthazar]

Seems so today, but again- having NO oil filter was commonplace prior to the 1950s (my '46-48 Ford Flathead has no PROVISION for a filter), and having a filter standard was common after the 1950s... making the '50s a decade of 'oil filter transition'.

There were oiling issues with the early 265 anyway- I believe the overall system got re-engineered... adding a filter was undoubtedly part of that re-engineering rather than 'fixing an oversight'. Sorry to douse your glee over 'another GM mistake'.

[toesuf94]

Uppers only, right? : lower arms are still forged in '59.

Correct! :AH-HA_wink: By the way - I LOVE the B-59. It may be my next car. At the Goodguys event in Des Moines there was a Candy Apple Red over white interior Lesabre that was so beautiful I simply stared at it - I was in such awe, I forgot to snap a picture or two of it!

[CMG]

Sorry to douse your glee over 'another GM mistake'.

Huh??!?!

Where do you possibly get THAT????

It's a trivia forum I thought.

Wow.

[balthazar]

My bad; you just seemed... full of glee. No offense intended.

[CMG]

My bad; you just seemed... full of glee. No offense intended.

Not at all.

I've built a bazillion Chevys! I just like the weird trivia, I thought it was a lesser known thing for most people nowadays!

I remember somebody also said something about a Pontiac suspension A arm being a Corvette piece of some sort, that it was in a Hollander interchange manual. I don't know the answer (IF there is one) but does anybody else know? Mid 60's rings a bell...?

[Sixty8panther]

Correct! :AH-HA_wink: By the way - I LOVE the B-59. It may be my next car. At the Goodguys event in Des Moines there was a Candy Apple Red over white interior Lesabre that was so beautiful I simply stared at it - I was in such awe, I forgot to snap a picture or two of it!

Well as of April 2007 the number of B-59s on this forum has DOUBLED.

Balthazar's Invicta 2dr ht has been joined by my LeSabre 2dr post.

I absolutely love that car, I'd take a bullett for it, and that's saying a

lot for a non-hardtop!

Edited July 21, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[balthazar]

I remember somebody also said something about a Pontiac suspension A arm being a Corvette piece of some sort, that it was in a Hollander interchange manual. I don't know the answer (IF there is one) but does anybody else know? Mid 60's rings a bell...?

Only thing that springs to mind here is that 1 of the 6 cars in the '60s Pontiac Banshee series of concepts/prototypes used some Corvette suspension pieces, but that certainly would not have been in Hollanders. I have never heard of a RPO Pontiac and the vette sharing anything, tho.

[Sixty8panther]

These twin concept cars were made by GM.

One was painted orange metallic and the

other was green metallic. Between the two

of them they had 16 cylinders but neither

had a V8. Name the car(s)....

[balthazar]

I ... touched one of them once. It was very sensual for both of us.

[Sixty8panther]

I KNOW that Balthy knows.... anyone else?

[CMG]

I do if they were metallic BRONZE and emerald green, not orange and green....

[CMG]

Is THIS the car you fondled..???

[balthazar]

Sorry, I've been sworn to not divulge particulars as a condition of the settlement.

Yes, that's her.

[CMG]

Wow, that's a heckuva fondle!

Which car did you grope?

Killer cars for sure, didn't the green one just sell at B-J for crazy money?

[balthazar]

I briefly fondled the bronze one. The green one, solid but unrestored & a peeling white, did not meet reserve at auction @ $230K a bunch of years ago. Once restored to flawless condition, it sold for $3.8M. The bronze one is in excellent original condition.

[Sixty8panther]

If some overglorifed hemi powered Mopar econobox

is worth $2mill this is worth more than $3.8mill.

[CMG]

If some overglorifed hemi powered Mopar econobox

is worth $2mill this is worth more than $3.8mill.

What "Hemi powered Mopar econobox" POSSIBLY sold for "$2mill"..????

"Hemi econobox" is an oxymoron to begin with, doesn't even make SENSE...?

[Sixty8panther]

A 1960s Plymouth Belevedere or some downsized Dodge

from the early 1970s in relative terms was the Neon or

Caliber of its day.... an econobox.

Trying to make a point of how production cars that were

made in the millions but have a specual motor can be

worth millions, then surely something this special is worth

more than double that.