NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

Cadillac to re-align lineup with STS and DTS replacements

61 posts in this topic

Cadillac to re-align lineup with STS and DTS replacements

Posted May 14th 2007 2:34PM by Sam Abuelsamid

Posted Image

photo courtesy of worldcarfans.com

In the next few years Cadillac is likely to adjust its product mix toward somewhat smaller vehicles, which may be at least in part driven by the need for increased fuel economy. In an interview with Automotive News, GM North America President Troy Clarke indicated that the two larger Cadillac sedans, the DTS and STS, will likely be replaced by a single model in the future.

In addition, a model smaller than the CTS is likely to appear, which could come off the rumored Alpha platform. In spite of cutting one model line, Cadillac's lineup will probably grow with additional variants such as coupes and convertibles, including the CTS coupe that has been spied.

Edited by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the smaller-than-CTS model isn't anything remotely like the BLS, I have no objections. I imagine the CTS will be nudged slightly upmarket if this occurs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the smaller-than-CTS model isn't anything remotely like the BLS, I have no objections. I imagine the CTS will be nudged slightly upmarket if this occurs.

it already is being compaired with the 5 but caddy should keep it the price leader and keep it priced where it is! i would like to see a 7 series size car (not the L) as the replacement for the sts and dts. caddy should try to be the price leader in these markets until they have gained the respect and then they can increase their prices if they desire.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda like one of these 'duh' articles that we've been discussing for months.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More bodystyles for each model is what worked for them for so many decades... I hope to see this "new" approach spread throughout GM. Fewer model names, more bodystyles under each model name.

Alpha BLS coupe/convertible/sedan

Sigma CTS coupe/convertible/sedan/crossover

Zeta DTS coupe/sedan

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More bodystyles for each model is what worked for them for so many decades... I hope to see this "new" approach spread throughout GM. Fewer model names, more bodystyles under each model name.

Alpha BLS coupe/convertible/sedan

Sigma CTS coupe/convertible/sedan/crossover

Zeta DTS coupe/sedan

:yes:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the Zeta-based model that will replace the DTS, styling must be very edgy and full of evolutionary Cadillac styling cues, similar to the first CTS models. I sure hope the designers are fast at work on it, with heavy emphasis on the Cadillac styling traits!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am worried a RWD DTS would get very pricey. I think a RWD DTS is very silly given the popularity of the current model even if 25 percent of them are fleeted. I want RWD in certain cars and others to stay FWD the G6, Lucerne and DTS are the FWD models. Switching the DTS to RWD could risk upsetting traditional Cadillac customers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>"Switching the DTS to RWD could risk upsetting traditional Cadillac customers."<<

You're assuming that the overriding reason they buy the DTS is because it's FWD.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the smaller-than-CTS model isn't anything remotely like the BLS, I have no objections. I imagine the CTS will be nudged slightly upmarket if this occurs.

I have a feeling that if the BLS had RWD proportions and less Saab stuff on the inside you wouldn' have wrote that... Am I right? :P
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what they will call the big car..hopefully, STS...DTS has too much baggage, IMHO (i.e. fogeymobile).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are people worried about price points with Cadillac? Don't worry about the RWD DTS's price going up and the CTS doesn't need to be the price leader. GM should strive to make Cadillac a brand that attracts buyers who don't consider price. Caddy is GM's range-topping line and shouldn't say anything about value, but rather should be all about providing the best. If you want value, go to Chevy...if you want luxurious value, go to Buick...if you want unabashed decadent luxury, go to Cadillac. So again, don't worry about price but focus on building the absolute best luxury vehicles available.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but moving stuff to far up-market creates problems, and costs you sales. We don't need some big-a$$ 7 Series beater even if it is priced under the 7. Cadillac has a really unqiue spot in the market part of the DTS's charm is its relative affordablity. If Cadillac wants to sell 75,000 RWD DTS's for 60K a pop (at least) they won't). If they want volume then stick to you know what sells. You can how-ever sell 75,000 FWD DTS's, with the right 6 speed automatic tranny. Price is a huge part of buying a car Windy. You need to offer a GOOD balance of both. I don't understand how a new FWD platform for the DTS/Lucerne wouldn't make sense? Assuming a RWD Park Ave is sold here and then a RWD SLS (type 7 Series car) you fools seem to be moving the DTS way to up market. You can get a fully loaded premium leather and all DTS with performance package, adaptive cruise and navy with bose sound for about 60K and you can just have a "nice one" for low 50's. Not bad considering the pure luxury and price. If you want performance and luxury get a CTS or STS, leave the DTS to an premium luxury cruiser. The DTS is what alot of traditional Cadillac buyers still want, and unless sales drop so far down the tube I see no reason to switch it to RWD and raise the price and change it so much. GM would be just plain silly to ruin a strong seller (more DTS's sold than any other Caddy last year!). I vote the DTS stays FWD and a good value leave the 7 Series RWD beater to something else which is what you want to make the DTS. Something it was not meant to be. People shopping for a 7 Series will not cross shop it for a DTS. Sorry even if it is RWD, keep it FWD and so what if it is fleeted some still 75% of the sales are to consumers. Just keep it FWD with a new FWD platform for the DTS and Lucerne. That has my vote an SLS would be just great to go after a S Class or 7 Series the DTS isn't the car to do it!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but moving stuff to far up-market creates problems, and costs you sales. We don't need some big-a$$ 7 Series beater even if it is priced under the 7. Cadillac has a really unqiue spot in the market part of the DTS's charm is its relative affordablity. If Cadillac wants to sell 75,000 RWD DTS's for 60K a pop (at least) they won't). If they want volume then stick to you know what sells. You can how-ever sell 75,000 FWD DTS's, with the right 6 speed automatic tranny. Price is a huge part of buying a car Windy. You need to offer a GOOD balance of both. I don't understand how a new FWD platform for the DTS/Lucerne wouldn't make sense? Assuming a RWD Park Ave is sold here and then a RWD SLS (type 7 Series car) you fools seem to be moving the DTS way to up market. You can get a fully loaded premium leather and all DTS with performance package, adaptive cruise and navy with bose sound for about 60K and you can just have a "nice one" for low 50's. Not bad considering the pure luxury and price. If you want performance and luxury get a CTS or STS, leave the DTS to an premium luxury cruiser. The DTS is what alot of traditional Cadillac buyers still want, and unless sales drop so far down the tube I see no reason to switch it to RWD and raise the price and change it so much. GM would be just plain silly to ruin a strong seller (more DTS's sold than any other Caddy last year!). I vote the DTS stays FWD and a good value leave the 7 Series RWD beater to something else which is what you want to make the DTS. Something it was not meant to be. People shopping for a 7 Series will not cross shop it for a DTS. Sorry even if it is RWD, keep it FWD and so what if it is fleeted some still 75% of the sales are to consumers. Just keep it FWD with a new FWD platform for the DTS and Lucerne. That has my vote an SLS would be just great to go after a S Class or 7 Series the DTS isn't the car to do it!

My point is that GM should focus on providing the luxury and status necessary for Cadillac to warrant more of a price premium and not focus on stripping out important content to save an extra $500 on the MSRP. The ultimate goal for Cadillac should be to achieve sales targets at a higher price point. (Whereas that shouldn't be a goal for Chevy, they should always remain true to their value proposition and compete for segment-leading pricing with every vehicle)

With that in mind, you're going to have to cull some of the "traditional Cadillac buyers." Your range-topping brand shouldn't have people who say, "I couldn't afford a Lexus, so I bought a Cadillac." What kind of luxury statement is that? On the other hand, you can have people say, "I couldn't afford a Cadillac, so I bought a Buick."

I see the argument for keeping a FWD DTS and you're right that Caddy will lose quite a bit when they kill it. But, those short term losses should lead to a Cadillac with a stronger image in the long-term. The real issue is balancing how much short-term hit you take to get to that long-term. Which raises a great question about how many of those buyer GM can shift to the Lucerne. (Which, in turn, makes a pretty strong case for the Lucerne to stay FWD.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWD needs ot be cut out of the Caddy lineup

like a cancer. If there IS to be a FWD Caddy

in the lineup I think it should be a modern

day version of a Bustleback. :P

(longitudinal motor and all!)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DTS is Cadillac's ES350. You can't expect all DTS buyers to switch to Lucernes.

All indications are that the Lucerne goes RWD when the DTS does.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then that leaves a large group of buyer 150,000 a year or so to go over and purchase an Avalon... Or ES-350 neither of those cars dilute Lexus or Toyota's image. I think they will realize what a huge mistake they are making. Trust me if they have any brains the DTS and Lucerne will remain more volume FWD models. If they want like slotting in a Park Avevnue is great and I am in full support of it and then slot in a true 7 Series contender like a new ULS or something.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then that leaves a large group of buyer 150,000 a year or so to go over and purchase an Avalon... Or ES-350 neither of those cars dilute Lexus or Toyota's image. I think they will realize what a huge mistake they are making. Trust me if they have any brains the DTS and Lucerne will remain more volume FWD models. If they want like slotting in a Park Avevnue is great and I am in full support of it and then slot in a true 7 Series contender like a new ULS or something.

While I fully understand your argument, remember that those 150,000 would likely be very satisfied with a RWD DTS and Lucerne or a new Epsilon II FWD LaCrosse. In fact, I'd chance that some of those ES350 and Avalon owners might migrate over once they actually realize what their cars look like.

I have always believe that the DTS maintained its leadership over the Town Car because Cadillac has simply made a better vehicles - more power, more comfort, more gadgets, a reasonable price. People all too often make the mistake of characterizing the DeVille/DTS as not being able to compete with the 7er/S-Class/etc; its not supposed to. It occupies a uniquely American segment, that of the big luxury, low pricetag segment. People who purchase this sort of car don't care about air-sealed doors, iDrive, and 8-speed transmissions with micron-tolerance gears - they want a car with big money looks and big money feel at a middle-class price.

And while the DTS evolved with the younger market in terms of performance and technology, the Town Car stagnated and ends up being the retiree barge o' choice and livery queen it is today. And in the near future as the CTS grows to full 5er size and a RWD BLS takes its place as a 3er fighter, I want to see a fullsized luxury Cadillac proudly wearing the DTS badge. No, its not the Sixteen or the ULS and it will never be; leave that for a lower-volume more boutique car. Keep the DTS true to form as an attainable American flagship.

Drive wheels don't matter when you're just that good. Look at the sales to prove it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think "Coupe DeVille" has such a romantic, American, almost rebellious ring to it... am I wrong?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think "Coupe DeVille" has such a romantic, American, almost rebellious ring to it... am I wrong?

Funny you should mention that...

... I knew NOTHING about cars growing up. Yet, somehow, when I heard "Coup DeVille" or "Sedan DeVille"... I always knew people were talking about quality, class and style.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fly so would you like a FWD DTS again? I think Fly you have changed your tune some. That scares me, sixty must be getting to you. Whatever the case is I want an affordable DTS FWD or even RWD.

Edited by gm4life
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then that leaves a large group of buyer 150,000 a year or so to go over and purchase an Avalon... Or ES-350 neither of those cars dilute Lexus or Toyota's image. I think they will realize what a huge mistake they are making. Trust me if they have any brains the DTS and Lucerne will remain more volume FWD models. If they want like slotting in a Park Avevnue is great and I am in full support of it and then slot in a true 7 Series contender like a new ULS or something.

of those cars, there main virtue is not FWD. people do not buy cars based on drive wheels, unless they are buying RWD for performance or they are lemmings and still convinced RWD is "scary". The latter market could still be categorized as significant; there's probably a good 20% portion of the people still out there like you that think RWD is "unsafe" [i don't know, that may not be your viewpoint, I apologize if it isn't]. The point is there are countless RWD models out there now that have proven that with the right formula people will buy the car regardless of its drive wheels. The same can be said for FWD. The point is we are talking about large luxury cars, a formula that foreign makes have proven can only be done incredibly well with a RWD setup. Bottom line is I would want my cars to be RWD for the proportion/design standpoint and the performance standpoint. GM makes plenty dull/uninvigorating FWD cars, they can also have aspirational RWD cars.

to address another post: DTS is Cadillac's ES350 for reasons other than its FWD powertrain. For comfort, luxury, size, roominess, and prestige, the DTS is Cadillac's luxo bargain. Same can be said of the ES350

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

Loading...