LosAngeles

There should be a Mazda9

24 posts in this topic

I know these sections aren't necessarily for ideas, but here goes. Since Mazda doesn't have the 929 or the Millenia anymore, but still has rotary engine technology, all the resources of every Ford company, and is basically consideed the most sporting brand, they should use the D3 platform (of Volvo S80 and Ford 500 fame) to build a big car right in between the size of the main two platform mates (about 196" with the 500's wheelbase and the S80's height) Give it standard full-time AWD, standard six-speeds, and a 20B three-rotor engine, which can include a turbocharged Mazdaspeed version. That could be one kick-butt big car ready to eat Maximas, Crown Athletes, and Commodores for breakfast. Plus....hell, every company needs ONE coupe, right? Why not use C1 (Mazda3), CD3 (Mazda6), EUCD, or hell, even D2C (Mustang) to create a Mazda4 coupe? Light enough for the current 2.0L four in the new Miata and V-6 in the current Mazda6 to make a difference. Notchback, so as not to step on the RX-8. Slightly larger than the Civic and Cobalt coupes. Well, what do you think?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you obsessed with bigger vehicles? :P This, Honda/Acura, the G6... I like the idea of a coupe, just sized more similarly to the Cobalt instead of larger than it. I could really like it if it was done right. Then I would have to choose between it and the Civic Si... Since Pontiac doesn't have one... Ya know...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you obsessed with bigger vehicles? :P This, Honda/Acura, the G6...

No, I simply like cars that are actually cool and usable to boot. Mazda has a good opportunity to get back in the big car game and show what their rotaries and the D3 platform can really do. Full-size cars, when done right, are keepers in every respect, and tend to be more special than intermediates (though the game in that segment can be taken to another level also)

I like the idea of a coupe, just sized more similarly to the Cobalt instead of larger than it. I could really like it if it was done right. Then I would have to choose between it and the Civic Si... Since Pontiac doesn't have one... Ya know...

[post="24875"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I wasn't talking about being an intermediate....it's fine to be compact, I just don't want anything like the Civic coupe, whose personality I hate...it's too wimpy, too interested in having kits thrown on it. I envision something more like the 3-series coupes, a lot stronger. Edited by LosAngeles
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that Mazda needs a Mazda9. Based on the Five Hundred platform but with "midsize" proportions (the 6 is a large compact in many regards, the 9 could be a large midsize). It doesn't need a 20 cu ft trunk or an SUV like seating position. It would help Mazda's image out tremendously in the US and would serve as an excellent export to Japan & Europe.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that Mazda needs a Mazda9. Based on the Five Hundred platform but with "midsize" proportions (the 6 is a large compact in many regards, the 9 could be a large midsize). It doesn't need a 20 cu ft trunk or an SUV like seating position.

[post="24880"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's why I used the phrase "in between," because while the 500/Montego is definitely a full-size car all the way around (and as such, shouldn't be considered a Camcord competitor, but one for the 300s and Avalons of the world), the Volvo S80 is more like a luxury intermediate, aimed at 5-series and A6.

So a nice right in between car, more powerful (at at least 300 NA horses, by their current rotary standards, topping RX-8 and Mazdaspeed6) and better handling than either one, is about where Mazda would want to go.

I don't see why the car couldn't priced around $35K either.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good idea, but I wouldn't use a Rotary for this application. The mileage would be horrible, and the powerband of a Rotary just doesn't fit the application of a large sedan. I'd rather see something like that Volvo/Yamaha V8 that is in the XC90.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds mainly like a lot of agreement to me! :)

Definitely agree with the 2 slots you identified - flagship & coupe (and maybe one more). They could be implemented a number of ways tho.

Not sure about a platform for the biggie - wouldn't want it to be quite as big as the 500 (exactly, LA: no bigger than the 300!) - but this
Posted Image
is where I'd start for the styling. It'd be a MX9 instead of a Mazda9 (if you get my drift). Thinking more of the 3.5v6 tho. Could they do a Renesis engined RX-9 too?

For the coupe, how about doing the Mazdaspeed3 with a unique bodystyle?
Posted Image
The Mz3 is already about as long as the BMW3 & just a couple inches shorter than the Cobalt.

The 3rd one I don't have an image for... a CX-2 micro-softroader, as a baby brother for the CX-7. Maybe use the exact same styling but with just 2 (sliding?) doors? Edited by 2b2
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, ditch the rotary in a car that size. Rotaries are still a novelty and Mazda doesn't have the cache to experiment outside the accepted norm of a fullsize, RWD, V8+ flagship.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boy, this thread moved quickly - there weren't any replies when I started mine (guess I type too slow or pre-edit too much). Question - this all does assume a Mazda2 is already in the pipeline, right?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea, but I wouldn't use a Rotary for this application. The mileage would be horrible, and the powerband of a Rotary just doesn't fit the application of a large sedan. I'd rather see something like that Volvo/Yamaha V8 that is in the XC90.

[post="24886"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Its fuel economy is the only thing I'm really afraid of....with the 197 horse/164 lb-ft 13B 2-rotor in the automatic RX-8 making only 18 city/25 hwy, one is hard pressed to get those same nuimbers in a 300-horse/likely 230 lb-ft 3-rotor, but then I'm saying this having never seen the 3-rotor in a U.S. street application. The idea was really just an exercise to bring the 3-rotor into the U.S. Maybe it finds its way into a special turbocharged RX-9, kept to low production number.

Naturally aspirated and turbocharged 3.2L V-6es wouldn't be too bad either, I don't think. One thing's for certain, the base car definitely has to have more power and torque than the 6 and 500.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this
Posted Image
is where I'd start for the styling. It'd be a MX9 instead of a Mazda9 (if you get my drift). Thinking more of the 3.5v6 tho. Could they do a Renesis engined RX-9 too?

I kinda wantd to stay away from fastback styling for the 9, but what is a Renesis?

For the coupe, how about doing the Mazdaspeed3 with a unique bodystyle?
Posted Image
The Mz3 is already about as long as the BMW3 & just a couple inches shorter than the Cobalt.

[post="24888"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The 3's nose is definitely too short for the coupe profile I want. The cowl for the 4 should not only be longer, but slightly lower as well. Even if it had a hatch, it should spring from a more notchback-like deck.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I could definitely see Mazda having an RSX fighter in their ranks. The 929 might work, but it would have to be a hell of a lot more sporting than the Five Hundred to be taken seriously.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kinda wantd to stay away from fastback styling for the 9, but what is a Renesis?
The 3's nose is definitely too short for the coupe profile I want.  The cowl for the 4 should not only be longer, but slightly lower as well.  Even if it had a hatch, it should spring from a more notchback-like deck.

[post="24918"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Renesis is the name of the latest gen of Mazda rotary engines.... isn't it? (linky)

Yeah re: the coupe. That's an old chop. My current thinking is more a hatch that doesn't look like one - tho I'd still like it swoopy :)

Speaking of swoopy... I forgot to post this Posted Image from gizmag Edited by 2b2
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Renesis is the name of the latest gen of Mazda rotary engines.... isn't it? (linky)

[post="24949"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Yeah, but it's so much less fun to say than Wankel.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Mazda could use a larger car...but it could not be a sedan...sports car, coupe, something. Ford would have issues with it eating into the 500 or the s80... The question being-would it sell? It would have to be different, sporty, and fast. And kept away from Ford.. :lol: though a 4 slotted under the 6..and a 2 under the 3 would work...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The American triplets, the 9, and the S80 would have three distinct personalities.... Mazda simply needs an engine, that's the main issue...I would love to see the three-rotor, but the torque and fuel economy are two scary issues....I find V-6es too feminine and wimpy for such a car, unless it's got forced induction.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i bet a 3.0L rotary would deliver unbelievable power. like 250 torque and 335 hp... EAT THAT TOYOTA :P . course itd prolly get 5/7 MPG so... they oughta build a small sporty car with a tiny lil .8L rotary in it... good for 135hp (automatic not an option as it would be a total slug) MPG could probably achieve 30/40 with such a small engine...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...they oughta build a small sporty car with a tiny lil .8L rotary in it...

[post="25130"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Think it could fit in the center console? :)



QUOTE(daves87rs @ Oct 6 2005, 09:56 PM)
The question being-would it sell?

Well, the Mz3 is 75,570 ytd and the Mz6 is 57,463.
The 6 would probably have higher #'s if it was newer,
allowing 12 instead of 9 months, and
if all three (Mz3, Mz6, Mz9) were fairly new,
maybe:
Mz3 = 100k+
Mz6 = 75-80k
Mz9 = 50-60K? (tho a RX9 not so much)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure the torque of a rotery would be good for a sedan the size that you're talking. How about an turbo inline 5 or 6 from Volvo? We already know it will fit. Make it an AWD system with a rear wheel bias.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The 5-cylinder's simply too small... Maybe an increase of the 3 liter V-6 to 3.2 liters or more is the solution for the base car. The 9 has to find at least 250 horses and 250 lb-ft to be worth the trouble, especially with standard AWD across the range. Such an engine would benefit the 6 as well. Is five-valve-per-cylinder technology in Mazda's stable? Even with the fact that there's nothing Mazda about the engine, I suppose the Yamaha V-8 is acceptable. How about a twincharged V-6 for the Mazdaspeed version? Or maybe Mazda themselves takes the Yamaha 8 to 4.7 or a full 5 liters. The possibilities could even benefit the American Ford brands.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with the fact that there's nothing Mazda about the engine, I suppose the Yamaha V-8 is acceptable.

[post="25318"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


There's nothing Mazda about the basic design of the 3.0L. Duratec, either. I think the only thing they designed were the heads, or something. Even the minimal tweaking they did gave it a healthy, 10% boost in horsepower. I say, give Mazda the V8, and let them play with it a little; after all, we're pretty sure the new S80 will use this motor, so Mazda's version should have a little more "Zoom-zoom", right? Just think: A 10% increase in power for this V8 engine would take it from 311 horsepower up to 342! And I'm sure they could easily make it a nice, even 350. Oh, and let Mazda play around with the transmission, too. It should be more driver-oriented, being able to hold off shifting until redline, and should have some SMG buttons/paddles.

Save the turbo rotary for an RX-7. Edited by Petra
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now, back to the Mazda4 coupe....should IT use the Volvo 5? Is the engine too expensive to keep the car under $20K? Is it too rich of an engine (meaning the Mazdaspeed6 is left unprotected as a bigger dog), or should it even matter? How about a convertible version? Or is that too close to the Miata? Maybe an RX-8 vert should be done instead? Frameless doors? Targa top? Hardtop (I'm sure many would like that idea)? Notchback? Fastback with a hatch? Maybe this car makes a Capri twin for Ford (world)/Mercury (N.A.)? That would point to D2C (so that both are rear-drive), EUCD (standard AWD, of course), C1, or maybe even the upcoming Mondeo's FVA...would definitely eliminate CD3, regardless. add-on: And if it goes with D2C, becoming rear-drive, surely it becomes a favorite with the Asian kids and their love for Japanese car hobbies, like drifting.....my my my.... Edited by LosAngeles
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor