2008 CTS Pricing Released

[autoeng]

Iwas on the GM family First web site tonight and saw that the 2008 CTS pricing was released. Base price for the 1SA is $32,245 and the 1SB (SIDI) is $34,545.

Full pricing breakdown

Luxury Collection (PDP) - $2600

Luxury Level One Package (Y40)

Seating Package (Y44)

Premium Luxury Collection (PDQ) - $8165

Luxury Level One Package (Y40)

Luxury Level Two Package (Y41)

Seating Package (Y44)

Audio system with navigation (UAV)

UltraView sunroof (C3U)

Wood Trim Package (B19)

Wood Trim Package (B20)

Universal Home Remote (UG1)

Performance Collection (PDR) - $3300

18" All-Season Tire Performance Package (Y42)

Seating Package (Y44)

Luxury Level One (Y40) - $1000

Theft-deterrent alarm system

AM/FM stereo with 6-disc in-dash CD changer and MP3 playback with Radio Data System (RDS) and Bose 8-speaker system

Rainsense wipers

Accent lighting

17" x 8" machined-faced wheels

Luxury Level Two (Y41) - $2025

Heated/ventilated front seats

Split-folding rear seat

Power rake wheel and telescopic steering column

Universal Home Remote

EZ Key passive entry system

Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist

BASE PRICING

2007 CTS 3.6l 6MT - $33,530

2008 CTS 3.6l 6MT - $32,245

2007 CTS 3.6l 5AT - $34,730

2008 CTS 3.6l 6AT - $34,545

-Flybrian

Edited July 19, 2007 by autoeng

[smk4565]

Seems like a lot of money once you option it up. And it seems like not very much at all is on the base car. I did the math, it gets near $50,000 with everything on it, that is getting into BMW 5-series price and the CTS isn't that caliber of car. Although the 335i loaded can touch $47,000, but that car is really fast.

[Robert Hall]

The biggest dissapointment to me is that the DI engine isn't available w/ the manual..

[AAS]

The biggest dissapointment to me is that the DI engine isn't available w/ the manual..

I didn't even notice that at first glance... That's BS!

EDIT... what it actually means is that the DI comes STANDARD with the automatic, and the manual is an option that actually reduces the cost! So... COOL!!!

Edited July 19, 2007 by AAS

[eldiablobanshee]

Seems like a lot of money once you option it up. And it seems like not very much at all is on the base car. I did the math, it gets near $50,000 with everything on it, that is getting into BMW 5-series price and the CTS isn't that caliber of car. Although the 335i loaded can touch $47,000, but that car is really fast.

hello smk4565 congratulation on your first post but I must disagree with you were you say the BMW's are in a different class please explain more of what makes you feel this way.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Seems like a lot of money once you option it up. And it seems like not very much at all is on the base car. I did the math, it gets near $50,000 with everything on it, that is getting into BMW 5-series price and the CTS isn't that caliber of car. Although the 335i loaded can touch $47,000, but that car is really fast.

How is it not that caliber of car? have you driven it? Does it look like less of a car than the 5 series? that's just more of the damned-before-they-even-start inferior domestic logic.

Remember, the CTS IS the 5 series competitor this time around. The Alpha based Cadillac will be the 3 series competitor.

Edited July 19, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[thegriffon]

Except that the manual for the DI engine is only available with the summer tire performance package, which is significantly more expensive than the money you get back for the manual.

[AAS]

Except that the manual for the DI engine is only available with the summer tire performance package, which is significantly more expensive than the money you get back for the manual.

Yeah... I noticed that while reading through it for the 3rd time... It ends up to be around $1,700 to ditch the automatic for a manual (and pick-up the required wheel/tire package), assuming you don't for one of those other luxury packages...

[eldiablobanshee]

Except that the manual for the DI engine is only available with the summer tire performance package, which is significantly more expensive than the money you get back for the manual.

GM knows what type of driving people that buy manuals do, it should come with the performance brakes too.

[Northstar]

The biggest dissapointment to me is that the DI engine isn't available w/ the manual..

I think it is, see the manual trans option for -$1300?

It looks like a fully loaded model will be pretty expensive, but it's a damn good car and the base price is hardly more than the current one.

[VenSeattle]

Seems like a lot of money once you option it up. And it seems like not very much at all is on the base car. I did the math, it gets near $50,000 with everything on it, that is getting into BMW 5-series price and the CTS isn't that caliber of car. Although the 335i loaded can touch $47,000, but that car is really fast.

A base BMW 530i with no options is around $48k. The BMW 530xi is $50k. (the 530 is the engine equivalent of the base CTS 3.6l VVT.) I don't see a pricing problem at all when a loaded 530xi pushes $65k.

[smk4565]

hello smk4565 congratulation on your first post but I must disagree with you were you say the BMW's are in a different class please explain more of what makes you feel this way.

I know the CTS is 5-series size, but the 5-series is $46-60,000+ offers 20 way seats, 13 speaker 7.1 sound, power sunshade, adaptive cruise control, V8 engine, etc. The 3-series is priced $33,000-45,000 for the sedan, which the CTS is pretty close to. I am not knocking the CTS, I am just saying that there is no car for $40,000 that can compete with the 5-series, but it looks like if you get a loaded CTS it will cost $47-48,000, and for a couple grand more people can get a 535i which is probably faster and comes with free maintenance and BMW's have great resale value.

The fair matchup based on price and equipment is going to be the CTS vs the 335i and the 335i has a big performance edge due to it's smaller size.

I hope this CTS is a smash hit, because the 3-series alone outsells the CTS, SRX, STS, DTS and XLR combined right now, and Cadillac needs some home run cars soon.

[smk4565]

A base BMW 530i with no options is around $48k. The BMW 530xi is $50k. (the 530 is the engine equivalent of the base CTS 3.6l VVT.) I don't see a pricing problem at all when a loaded 530xi pushes $65k.

They don't make a 530i anymore, they have a 528i with a wimpy engine, 230 or 250 hp I forget for $44,900 and the 535i (300 hp, 300 lb-ft) starts at $49k. The 550i is $58,500 but can go near $65k when loaded. Of course it has a V8 and a lot more equipment too. The 5-series is more, but it is more car. I think what will happen is most people won't get a very loaded up CTS, they will get more basic models to keep the price to $40,000 or less, so the 5-series won't really compete with it anyway, just the G35 and the 3-series, so I hope it can match their performance.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I don't see many people optioning up the CTS to that price level, I think Cadillac is fooling themselves if they think people will. Those that do will say for a few thousand more I can have a 5 series and free maintenance.

[Northstar]

I know the CTS is 5-series size, but the 5-series is $46-60,000+ offers 20 way seats, 13 speaker 7.1 sound, power sunshade, adaptive cruise control, V8 engine, etc. The 3-series is priced $33,000-45,000 for the sedan, which the CTS is pretty close to. I am not knocking the CTS, I am just saying that there is no car for $40,000 that can compete with the 5-series, but it looks like if you get a loaded CTS it will cost $47-48,000, and for a couple grand more people can get a 535i which is probably faster and comes with free maintenance and BMW's have great resale value.

The fair matchup based on price and equipment is going to be the CTS vs the 335i and the 335i has a big performance edge due to it's smaller size.

I hope this CTS is a smash hit, because the 3-series alone outsells the CTS, SRX, STS, DTS and XLR combined right now, and Cadillac needs some home run cars soon.

A 535i starts at $51625 if you want leather and not leatherette. You're also saying that the price of the CTS is too high because the 535i is a couple grand more, but that's for a base 535i. All that stuff you listed is not standard. You want 20 way power seats? That's $1200 more. You want 13 speakers? That's $1200 more. A 535i with all those things you listed and everything you can get on the CTS is $60k! Hardly a few grand more!

[traderchpl]

Seems like a lot of money once you option it up. And it seems like not very much at all is on the base car. I did the math, it gets near $50,000 with everything on it, that is getting into BMW 5-series price and the CTS isn't that caliber of car. Although the 335i loaded can touch $47,000, but that car is really fast.

No offense, smk, but that's just not accurate. A 328i can certainly touch $47K when well-optioned. A 335i will blow right by that number. When is the last time you bought a BMW?

Yesterday afternoon we just ordered a 328i pretty well loaded-up (we didn't choose every single option, but most), and it stickered at $46870. Not that we paid close to sticker, because right now they're selling these cars within a stone's throw of invoice with exactly 2 minutes of gentlemanly "discussion."

And the only reason we didn't wait for the next CTS is because the 3 is her car, and I want the Caddy for myself!!

Anyway, and this is only in my opinion, since most people are driving around in "base-engined" 5-series, saying the next CTS isn't "that caliber of car" is absolutely laughable.

****Now, if you said that a dressed-up-Chevy-store-Cadillac dealership isn't even remotely in the same class as a BMW dealership (at least Reeves in Tampa), I would have to agree whole-heartedly.

smk, welcome to Cheers and Gears. Hopefully your discussions here will be less contentious than at that "other" board.

[Drew Dowdell]

I know the CTS is 5-series size, but the 5-series is $46-60,000+ offers 20 way seats, 13 speaker 7.1 sound, power sunshade, adaptive cruise control, V8 engine, etc. The 3-series is priced $33,000-45,000 for the sedan, which the CTS is pretty close to. I am not knocking the CTS, I am just saying that there is no car for $40,000 that can compete with the 5-series, but it looks like if you get a loaded CTS it will cost $47-48,000, and for a couple grand more people can get a 535i which is probably faster and comes with free maintenance and BMW's have great resale value.

Base 5-series is $51k.... start adding some basic options and you'll easily get to $55k.

For $55k, I'll take a CTS-V and there's no way a 535i is faster or handles better than that.

[Cadillacfan]

Let's not get into a BMW vs. Cadillac pissing match. For all the options you get in this vehicle and the size, I'd say the pricing is competitive. The CTS is no longer the entry-level Cadillac anymore. It may appear that it is due to the fact that the alpha-based BLS replacement isn't here yet, but Cadillac is simply preparing us for the idea that this is no longer going to be the cheapest Caddy. They just better hurry up with that BLS.

[jbartley]

looks pretty decent to me! althought i would have thought a couple of items in the lux 1 and 2 packages would be standard on a lux car. the rainsense wipers, 6-cd, back-up sensors, etc.

EDIT: Universal home remote should be standard on every vehicle GM makes period.

i see most of these selling in the 42-47k range, perfect if you ask me.

is it asking too much for rear seat heaters? hmmmm?

Edited July 19, 2007 by jbartley

[smk4565]

I know the BTS or BLS is coming, but what price will they put it at? $27k? I hope not. The BTS is going to have to base around $33k, so the CTS is going to need an overhaul and pushed to the mid 40s for a base price to get them in line with everyone else. The base CTS has no fog lights, cheap wheels and some plastic trim, that is the kind of stuff they have to get rid of. If the car doesn't look good when it is 5 years old, the resale value really suffers. The German cars seem to age better, and not look dated or cheap.

As far as BMW prices, Motor trend just had a loaded up 335i coupe and it was $47,000. The 330 hp G37 was $39,000, which they thought was a great deal. The 535i is about $55,000 with normal options so I don't think the CTS is competing with it, but I agree with the poster that said people may see $48,000 for a loaded CTS, and think, well the BMW is $5000 more and has free maintenance and better resale value. I have never been a fan of BMW styling inside or out, but they drive well.

I agree with the rear heated seats, the Saab 9-5 and old Seville had them. If the CTS sells in the 40s, it kind of makes the STS useless, I could see them dumping it midway in the 09 model year.

Edited July 19, 2007 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

The german cars age well, BMWs especially, because the older versions look better than the new ones.

[The O.C.]

A 535i starts at $51625 if you want leather and not leatherette. You're also saying that the price of the CTS is too high because the 535i is a couple grand more, but that's for a base 535i. All that stuff you listed is not standard. You want 20 way power seats? That's $1200 more. You want 13 speakers? That's $1200 more. A 535i with all those things you listed and everything you can get on the CTS is $60k! Hardly a few grand more!

In all liklihood this car will still be compared with and cross-shopped with the 3-series....not the 5-series.

To me, looks about $45,500 for a loaded DI/Manual car. That's about $4,000 more than my loaded '07 Sport/Manual.....(although with about 50 more horsepower.)

With the interior improvements, I might see that as a reasonable price....if I were to buy one. However, comparison with a realtively loaded 335i for a grand or so more makes it a difficult decision. Horsepower may be similar but the 335i weighs around 500lbs less.....(new CTS is supposed to come in at around 4,000lbs with DI engine and most options....HEAVY...)

While I'd buy the loaded DI car, most people will be attracted to the base engine car that's light on options.....and will seem a far better deal at that price point I'm thinking....

[The O.C.]

In all liklihood this car will still be compared with and cross-shopped with the 3-series....not the 5-series.

To me, looks about $45,500 for a loaded DI/Manual car. That's about $4,000 more than my loaded '07 Sport/Manual.....(although with about 50 more horsepower.)

With the interior improvements, I might see that as a reasonable price....if I were to buy one. However, comparison with a realtively loaded 335i for a grand or so more makes it a difficult decision. Horsepower may be similar but the 335i weighs around 500lbs less.....(new CTS is supposed to come in at around 4,000lbs with DI engine and most options....HEAVY...)

While I'd buy the loaded DI car, most people will be attracted to the base engine car that's light on options.....and will seem a far better deal at that price point I'm thinking....

Ooops....forgot to add $1,200 for the summer tire package. At $46,700, this doesn't look all that hot pricing-wise....

OUCH

[The O.C.]

Base 5-series is $51k.... start adding some basic options and you'll easily get to $55k.

For $55k, I'll take a CTS-V and there's no way a 535i is faster or handles better than that.

LMAO........

The current v-Series is no where near the car the current 535i is.......

Yeah, it's got a great LS2 V8.....but a clunky tranny, a crap interior (compared to the BMW) and it's not nearly as refined. Plus, the 300hp 535i weighs a few hundered pounds LESS than the v-series....

Now the new v-series will be a champ it seems......but not for $55K I bet.....

[Drew Dowdell]

LMAO........

The current v-Series is no where near the car the current 535i is.......

Yeah, it's got a great LS2 V8.....but a clunky tranny, a crap interior (compared to the BMW) and it's not nearly as refined. Plus, the 300hp 535i weighs a few hundered pounds LESS than the v-series....

Now the new v-series will be a champ it seems......but not for $55K I bet.....

I was referring to the NG CTS-V, not the current one.

The $55k was an out of the air guess based on the ~$5k increase in base price that the '08 CTS seems to have.

The NG CTS-v is rumored to be at least 500hp, but will likely have more. An additional 200hp over the 535i should be enough to over come the weight disadvantage no?

[Z-06]

In all liklihood this car will still be compared with and cross-shopped with the 3-series....not the 5-series.

True. All the comparison will be made against the 3-er not the 5-er, despite having similar dimensions to the 5-er.

With the interior improvements, I might see that as a reasonable price....if I were to buy one. However, comparison with a realtively loaded 335i for a grand or so more makes it a difficult decision. Horsepower may be similar but the 335i weighs around 500lbs less.....(new CTS is supposed to come in at around 4,000lbs with DI engine and most options....HEAVY...)

That is what is worrying me of all the good GM cars lately. That weight may act as their enemy. If they did an excellent job of keeping the weight of the Silverado within 100-200 lb of its predecessors, GM should have done the same with the CTS. That is one thing which will bring the CTS down, just like the VUE. Even the sheepling wife of my peer who knows nothing about cars and is in the market for the cute-UTES said VUE was heavy. GM please stop having loose cannons in people's "PERCEPTIONS".

[regfootball]

i would need AWD, ALL SEASON tires.

I want DI, manual, sunroof, 5.1, brakes, heated seats. not much else.

its too much brain damage to figure out if they are screwing me or not.

at least it appears you can get a stick with AWD, which would be the whole point.

because the dumbasses in detroit (i know, that's redundant) aren't putting AWD on the G8 apparently.

Edited July 19, 2007 by regfootball

[David]

No Matter what, this Car will be a hit. Especially for those of us that buy only American. I want my money and profits kept here to drive the growth of this countries business. Over all I have no problems with the pricing.

My only issue is the performance package. It should have included the performance brakes, not having them as a extra option.

My beef with GM is that they seem to option way to much and not give full packages as the options. I always felt that the Toyota Matrix was better packaged with it's options choices being complete sets of packages at lower price points than the small packages and option everything by itself as the way Pontiac went with it's version.

Sad, but if someone does the math, you got more matrix for less money than a pontiac. Even though the auto's came off the same assembly line.

The CTS is an awesome auto, but I fear GM still has not learned to properly build option packages. They can lower prices by including better option packages. yes I know not everyone will want what specific packages might have, but for the most part, when the pricing is lower, people will not care about 1 or 2 things extra on their auto. The fuller packages also keep the resale value higher than a non-optioned auto.

Over all this auto rocks.

[Northstar]

In all liklihood this car will still be compared with and cross-shopped with the 3-series....not the 5-series.

To me, looks about $45,500 for a loaded DI/Manual car. That's about $4,000 more than my loaded '07 Sport/Manual.....(although with about 50 more horsepower.)

With the interior improvements, I might see that as a reasonable price....if I were to buy one. However, comparison with a realtively loaded 335i for a grand or so more makes it a difficult decision. Horsepower may be similar but the 335i weighs around 500lbs less.....(new CTS is supposed to come in at around 4,000lbs with DI engine and most options....HEAVY...)

While I'd buy the loaded DI car, most people will be attracted to the base engine car that's light on options.....and will seem a far better deal at that price point I'm thinking....

Ooops....forgot to add $1,200 for the summer tire package. At $46,700, this doesn't look all that hot pricing-wise....

OUCH

I think you (and everyone) seem to be adding on options more than once somehow...

$34545 + 8165 (premium luxury) + 395 (performance brakes) + 2430 (performance tires) - 1300 (manual) = $44325. This gets you every option except extra cost paint and an engine block heater. The current CTS Sport doesn't have NAV, 5.1 surround sounds with a 40GB hard drive, or the ~50 extra horsepower, not to mention the much improved interior and it costs around $41k. NAV alone on the current CTS is $2100...

If you really want to build an '08 as close to your current CTS in options you'd do...

$34545 + $2600 (luxury collection) + 2025 (luxury level 2) + $395 (brakes) + $2980 (wheels/tires) - $1300 = $41245. This is nearly identical to the current CTS Sport with ~50 more HP and a much better interior. I think the pricing is fine. My dealer has a CTS Sport currently thats $42300 MSRP but it has the $2200 Bose system incentive. Still, the MSRP on the current CTS Sport is more when similarly equipped.

[Northstar]

I agree with the poster that said people may see $48,000 for a loaded CTS, and think, well the BMW is $5000 more and has free maintenance and better resale value. I have never been a fan of BMW styling inside or out, but they drive well.

A loaded CTS with every option including extra cost pain and the engine block heater, compact spare, AWD and automatic transmission is $48780. A 535xi with comparable options is $63305! A 335xi with similar options is $52170. The 335 is close in price, but not the 535.

I would say the CTS is priced fine. The main area of added expensive is the AWD, which the current CTS doesn't have.

[smk4565]

True. All the comparison will be made against the 3-er not the 5-er, despite having similar dimensions to the 5-er.

That is what is worrying me of all the good GM cars lately. That weight may act as their enemy. If they did an excellent job of keeping the weight of the Silverado within 100-200 lb of its predecessors, GM should have done the same with the CTS. That is one thing which will bring the CTS down, just like the VUE. Even the sheepling wife of my peer who knows nothing about cars and is in the market for the cute-UTES said VUE was heavy. GM please stop having loose cannons in people's "PERCEPTIONS".

The weight is a problem. Just like the Lambdas are 500 pounds heavier than the Trailblazer and Envoy, Vue got heavier, CTS got heavier. Weight hurts handling, acceleration and gas mileage. GM needs to be more efficient with the weight on all their vehicles. People notice that heavy weight on a test drive because heavy cars often are not nimble in turns and can feel sluggish on hills.

[Simon C]

Still too much money. 3 Series / 5 Series ... it's too much.

[gmii]

I know the CTS is 5-series size, but the 5-series is $46-60,000+ offers 20 way seats, 13 speaker 7.1 sound, power sunshade, adaptive cruise control, V8 engine, etc. The 3-series is priced $33,000-45,000 for the sedan, which the CTS is pretty close to. I am not knocking the CTS, I am just saying that there is no car for $40,000 that can compete with the 5-series, but it looks like if you get a loaded CTS it will cost $47-48,000, and for a couple grand more people can get a 535i which is probably faster and comes with free maintenance and BMW's have great resale value.

The fair matchup based on price and equipment is going to be the CTS vs the 335i and the 335i has a big performance edge due to it's smaller size.

I hope this CTS is a smash hit, because the 3-series alone outsells the CTS, SRX, STS, DTS and XLR combined right now, and Cadillac needs some home run cars soon.

1) You have never even driven the new CTS to compare...

2) No way are the BMWs the same price with equal options...A BASE BMW usually equals a fully loaded Caddy of the same size. Check engine power, etc.

3) Why the 3 series "outsells" is because most are used in taxi fleets around the world. Been to Europe lately? They are a common car and most are sold as base models, not the "luxury" versions we see in NA. In some countries it is the ONLY BMW model you can buy...You will never see a new CTS as a taxi...Taxis = fleet sales...

BMWs are good cars...But you can't price compare them the same...

[Nick]

I sure hope those tire packages come with wheels. Who in their right mind would pay that much for tires? Michelin PS2's are just about the best performance tires you can get, and some of the priciest as well. A set for my 19's runs me about 1500 for 255/35/19 in front and 285/30/19 in the rear. I'd assume the tire package also includes wheels for that price.

Also, what's PDQ/PDR? A tire pressure monitoring system?

[kryptonics]

Sorry if I missed this, but does anyone know the details of the seating package? I noticed the luxury II package includes heated/ventilated front seats, so does the seating package just add heat to the rear? It doesn't seem like that would be a wise purchase seeing how I've only used the heated rear seats on my STS maybe 3 times over the last 5 years... Thanks!

Edited July 19, 2007 by kryptonics

[Spike]

Why does everyone believe the performance braking system is extra from the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package? It is listed as a free-flow option, but it is also included in the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package.

From the GM Dealer Order Guide...

Y43 18" (45.7 cm) Summer Tire Performance Package, includes (TT6) HID headlamps, (CE4) headlamp washers, (P63) 18" x 8" (45.7 cm x 20.3 cm) aluminum wheels with high-polished finish, (QUR) P235/55ZR18 Y-rated summer only performance blackwall tires, (FE3) performance handling suspension, (G80) limited slip differential, (J55) performance braking system and (V03) Performance Cooling System ([MX0] transmission only).

1 - Not available with (MX7) 6-speed automatic transmission AWD or (Y42) 18" All-Season Tire Performance Package.

[AAS]

Why does everyone believe the performance braking system is extra from the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package? It is listed as a free-flow option, but it is also included in the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package.

From the GM Dealer Order Guide...

Y43 18" (45.7 cm) Summer Tire Performance Package, includes (TT6) HID headlamps, (CE4) headlamp washers, (P63) 18" x 8" (45.7 cm x 20.3 cm) aluminum wheels with high-polished finish, (QUR) P235/55ZR18 Y-rated summer only performance blackwall tires, (FE3) performance handling suspension, (G80) limited slip differential, (J55) performance braking system and (V03) Performance Cooling System ([MX0] transmission only).

1 - Not available with (MX7) 6-speed automatic transmission AWD or (Y42) 18" All-Season Tire Performance Package.

SWEET!!! So, it's not just "must get 18-inch wheels and tires if you want the 6M."

[Northstar]

I sure hope those tire packages come with wheels. Who in their right mind would pay that much for tires? Michelin PS2's are just about the best performance tires you can get, and some of the priciest as well. A set for my 19's runs me about 1500 for 255/35/19 in front and 285/30/19 in the rear. I'd assume the tire package also includes wheels for that price.

Also, what's PDQ/PDR? A tire pressure monitoring system?

They definitely come with the wheels too. 17s are standard. PDQ is the "Premium Luxury Collection" and PDR is the "Performance Collection." Apparently, Cadillac is willing to give a "discount" on the 18" wheel/trie package if you buy one of the other two as well.

Sorry if I missed this, but does anyone know the details of the seating package? I noticed the luxury II package includes heated/ventilated front seats, so does the seating package just add heat to the rear? It doesn't seem like that would be a wise purchase seeing how I've only used the heated rear seats on my STS maybe 3 times over the last 5 years... Thanks!

This is the seating package: Seating Package, includes leather seating surfaces, (AH8) 10-way power passenger seat, (AL2) 2-way power driver and front passenger lumbar control, (A45) Memory Package, (KA1) heated front seats and (XA7) heated windshield washer fluid

Why does everyone believe the performance braking system is extra from the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package? It is listed as a free-flow option, but it is also included in the 18 inch Summer Tire Performance Package.

From the GM Dealer Order Guide...

Y43 18" (45.7 cm) Summer Tire Performance Package, includes (TT6) HID headlamps, (CE4) headlamp washers, (P63) 18" x 8" (45.7 cm x 20.3 cm) aluminum wheels with high-polished finish, (QUR) P235/55ZR18 Y-rated summer only performance blackwall tires, (FE3) performance handling suspension, (G80) limited slip differential, (J55) performance braking system and (V03) Performance Cooling System ([MX0] transmission only).

1 - Not available with (MX7) 6-speed automatic transmission AWD or (Y42) 18" All-Season Tire Performance Package.

I didn't look at the ordering guide, good catch. It's interesting that HID's are only available with 18s. I don't understand why and it's a really dumb idea on Cadillac's part, IMO. Perhaps the figure if someone wants to spend $500 extra on headlamps they don't want a "base" model anyways.

[regfootball]

this is all f8cking brain damage. let me know when i can build one on carsdirect.com or on cadillac.com.

until then this is hemhorrage.

don't all forget. wait till the middle-end of the model year and your caddy is about 10 grand below list. in the case of this new CTS, maybe more like 5 grand. point is, you never pay sticker for caddies. Why do you think the MSRP's are so painful and they package the options so ridiculously? At least ever since my daddy has always shopped. You could pick up a very nice 07 STS for about 10 grand or more off list right now.

what is going to be DIRT cheap in a few months are all the current CTS rotting on lots with the 2.8 engine. Good chick cars. One dealer i talked to a few months ago had like 6 of them sitting there, aging. Many of them were bone stock with leatherette.

'nice go to work cars' as some say. A smart Caddy-Saab-Hummer seller would upsell those cheap CTS from the 9-3 Linears.

Edited July 19, 2007 by regfootball

[smk4565]

1) You have never even driven the new CTS to compare...

2) No way are the BMWs the same price with equal options...A BASE BMW usually equals a fully loaded Caddy of the same size. Check engine power, etc.

3) Why the 3 series "outsells" is because most are used in taxi fleets around the world. Been to Europe lately? They are a common car and most are sold as base models, not the "luxury" versions we see in NA. In some countries it is the ONLY BMW model you can buy...You will never see a new CTS as a taxi...Taxis = fleet sales...

BMWs are good cars...But you can't price compare them the same...

I have driven the current CTS, obviously not the new one, I'll go check it out when it is out. My step dad has a BMW 540i, it is a much better performer than the current CTS, it costs more, but it is older too. The BMW 3 and 5 series offer adaptive cruise control, night vision on the 5 series and some other stuff that even a gadget fan like me wouldn't opt for. I went to the BMW website today, the 335i and CTS line up pretty closely in price, the 535i is about $53,000 lightly optioned to about $58,000 if you get everything. Which is a lot of money, I agree, but their resale values hold up and people out there are willing to pay it. Personally I'd rather have a Cadillac that can out perform it and match it's resale value.

The 3-series in the USA outsells the STS, DTS, CTS, XLR and SRX combined. I didn't look at worldwide sales, in that case it wouldn't even be close. The 3-series sedan, coupe and convertible (I forgot wagon sales but they are tiny) have sold about 72,000 for the first half of this year, those 5 Cadillacs have combined to sell about 69,000.

Lexus, Infiniti and Mercedes line up much better the BMW's class sizes, Cadillac needs to align them selves in size and price with those other brands, doesn't have to be exact, but has to be close.

One other gripe of mine about all GM cars (Ford too) is the cheap looking base models with gray plastic on the exterior, lack of fog lights and just plastic slots where they should be, cheap wheels with plastic covers, etc. The CTS has some of this, and the resale values will suffer, because cars with gray plastic look old, dull and cheap faster. When all molding is painted body color, and the car has fancy wheels, it doesn't age as much. This is an area BMW and Lexus seem to be good at, and they have high resale value.

[Flybrian]

Whoa.

BMWs and other European cars certainly have their fair share of black rubber rubstrips. Look at recent SAABs, Volvos, and BMWs. I agree they do look horrible. The last Cadillac with that kind of cheap trimming was probably a '96 Sedan DeVille and it wasn't even that thick.

[smk4565]

Whoa.

BMWs and other European cars certainly have their fair share of black rubber rubstrips. Look at recent SAABs, Volvos, and BMWs. I agree they do look horrible. The last Cadillac with that kind of cheap trimming was probably a '96 Sedan DeVille and it wasn't even that thick.

I agree with the rubber strip mid way up on the door for Saab and Volvo. My mom had 3 Volvos and 1 Saab in the past, all had that and it looked bad. The new CTS has the plastic down low, instead of painting the lower molding body color. On the 5-series it is body color and looks better. Same goes for Explorers or Escapes with the gray plastic, vs painting it all body color, all body color always looks better, and ages better. The 2000 Monte Carlo SS with spoiler and painted molding looks way better than the base with no spoiler, plastic wheel covers, and gray lower body molding for example.

I think every Cadillac should have fog lights, everything painted body color, metal or body painted grille (escalade does this well) and dual exhaust. The new CTS has a lot of plastic in the grille, it should have had the Escalade treatment, body painted egg crate with wire mesh behind.

[Nick]

I disagree with black moldings. Yes, they sometimes look good body-colored depending on the application, but in the case of the e39 5er for example, and other (older) BMW's, the "shadowline" trim gives some sportiness to the look.

I don't think this:

Looks as good as this:

(sorry for not finding decent/comparable images)...

[pow]

I love how this thread went from '08 CTS pricing to the merits of black vs. body-colored moldings...

I'm with reg; I'll wait until I can build one. I prefer a la carte options to complex and sneaky cumulative packages, and besides, the CTS is a much more competitive car at $35K than it is at $45K. None of the luxury crap - the big sunroofs, the ventilated seats, etc - really interest me on a CTS, and it's well-equipped enough anyway. I want a base 3.6 six-speed with the sport package, wood, maybe parking sensors, and maybe leather, depending on how good the leatherette is. Is that doable?

[pow]

OK, I went ahead and looked through the option packages. To get parking sensors you have to get Level 2 Luxury, which I'm assuming requires the Level 1 Luxury. It's a $350 stand-alone option in the 3er. The nav system is a bit pricey, too... it's more expensive than any rival's system. But then again, there's always OnStar T-B-T.

[Robert Hall]

The weight is a problem. Just like the Lambdas are 500 pounds heavier than the Trailblazer and Envoy, Vue got heavier, CTS got heavier. Weight hurts handling, acceleration and gas mileage. GM needs to be more efficient with the weight on all their vehicles. People notice that heavy weight on a test drive because heavy cars often are not nimble in turns and can feel sluggish on hills.

True, but considering they are American--the land of obese people--that the cars and SUVs are heavy and getting heavier is a given..

Edited July 20, 2007 by moltar

[Fady]

Hi Autoeng, I was wondering... this may be a naive question, but I saw that you saw this on the GM Family First site. I am not sure what that is but I was wondering if it would have any info on the GMS discount? I'm interested as I can get the discount and as I priced out a $45k CTS, I'd definately be interested in ballparking the final GMS price. Thanks.

Also, on another note, Moltar, do you mean obese or obsessed people?

Edited July 20, 2007 by Fady

[Robert Hall]

Hi Autoeng, I was wondering... this may be a naive question, but I saw that you saw this on the GM Family First site. I am not sure what that is but I was wondering if it would have any info on the GMS discount? I'm interested as I can get the discount and as I priced out a $45k CTS, I'd definately be interested in ballparking the final GMS price. Thanks.

Also, on another note, Moltar, do you mean obese or obsessed people?

Obese...we are the fattest nation on earth....

[regfootball]

i wish people would stop harping about weights.

they increase the weight because they need to buy and use more cheap steel to offset those union pension expenses. they can't afford to use a lot of the high strength stuff.

they increase the weight so you get good crash ratings. when the $h! comes down, if a car isn't a five star car, people rip on it.

they add weight so it 'feels as if it were made of solid billet like a bmw'.

they add weight so the frame and suspension hold up under freeze thaw pothole cycles. Something the furrin manuf's don't address very well.

lastly, they add thicker steel so it doesn't ding badly like all those ricemobiles do. Last thing caddy or Gm wants is to have a rep for cheap thin sheetmetal that asian cars have. Show me a one year old Yaris that isn't already dented up. Lots of Hondas and stuff have real cheap sheetmetal.

[smk4565]

The CTS is going to be heavier than a Mecedes E550 though, and the Mercedes has a 380 hp V8 and it is pretty solid. I don't think anyone will say and E-class is unsafe, or dings easily or is not solid feeling. Jaguars use aluminum frames, no one thinks they are unsafe or not solid. Weight hurts performance and gas mileage, people are really concerned with gas mileage now, and Caddy needs all the help they can get in the performance area to take on all the 300+ hp Lexus, Infiniti and BMWs.

I think by next summer there will be a decent sized incentive on the CTS, because of end of model year, and used ones will be on the market, and used Cadillacs are cheap.