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August 2007 Sales: General Motors

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GM's fleet sales were up 24% in August. They have been claiming they would reduce those, but I guess they got tired of that. They have to get off the fleet sales, they are still nearly 25% of all sales going to fleets, they need to cut that in half.

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GM probably fleeted them higher this month to get rid of the backlog of trailblazers. i think ALOT of buyers just waited all summer for the cheap finance rates.

Don't forget an entire plant building Trailblazers has already been closed—I don't think there is that large a backlog, although even the 4Runner has a lot of sales to rental fleets. Despite the decline in the segment (which has affected all the major entries equally) the Trailblazer has more than held its own. Although sales are down for the year overall, it is on track to unseat the Explorer as America's best-selling midsize SUV/crossover, and may yet retain its crown as GM's best-selling SUV as well, if it can maintain its recent advantage over the Tahoe.

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GM's fleet sales were up 24% in August. They have been claiming they would reduce those, but I guess they got tired of that. They have to get off the fleet sales, they are still nearly 25% of all sales going to fleets, they need to cut that in half.

these fleet sales i think were the GMT900's... which probably arent the worst to fleet, cause in the industry the GMT800's had the best resale value of all... assuming the GMT900's follow that trend with less fleet... it seems likely, they shouldnt worry about fleeting the silverado... just when half of your impalas are going to rental agency... u got a problem...

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Anything in the press releases about fleet sales?..they've generally crowed about reductions in down months...

I smell fleet sales being tweaked...anyone?

Fleet sales may be up - but sales to rental care companies were down 10% compared to the same period last year.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/04/news/compa...sion=2007090415

"GM said its sales of cars and light trucks, such as SUVs and pickups, rose 6 percent in the month to 385,529 vehicles. Car models saw a nearly 8 percent drop in sales, but that was outweighed by the the 16.5 percent jump in light truck models.

GM said it had the strong sales despite a more than 10 percent drop in less-profitable sales to rental car companies. Sales of its pickup trucks, and its so-called crossover vehicles - more car-like SUVs - helped GM with strong sales to consumers."

Edited by boblutzfan

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Okay, I'm confused here. The Sierra/Silverado are each up over 30% over last month. Down a tiny bit over last year but not by much. So why are they cutting production of the trucks?

If sales are up or even almost flat, shouldn't they be maintaining production?

Or am I missing something completely?

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GM up and Toyota is down for the month!!! There is a God! I have to drink tonight.

Now that is a sweet Cutlass!

Good news to see some increased sales at GM and arrogant Toyota bitch slapped down a wrung on there almighty ladder.

Edited by ponchoman49

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Okay, I'm confused here. The Sierra/Silverado are each up over 30% over last month. Down a tiny bit over last year but not by much. So why are they cutting production of the trucks?

If sales are up or even almost flat, shouldn't they be maintaining production?

Or am I missing something completely?

Because you want to sell your new truck without a 7 grand rebate on the hood. Trucks sale is up by most major automaker because of the huge amount of rebate available.

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In my area, almost all truck and van sales have gone to GM. I think fleet sales of that nature are great. Ford has pretty much bowed out of the diesel van business (no diesel available in the van). Many new ambulances in my area are now GM. Just the opposite of the way it used to be.

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GM's fleet sales were up 24% in August. They have been claiming they would reduce those, but I guess they got tired of that. They have to get off the fleet sales, they are still nearly 25% of all sales going to fleets, they need to cut that in half.

Not all fleet sales are bad. In fact some are very good. If GM learns where and when to sale to flreet, they can do just fine. But if the statement about their rental fleet sales are up by 24%, that is not very good at all.

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Not all fleet sales are bad. In fact some are very good. If GM learns where and when to sale to flreet, they can do just fine. But if the statement about their rental fleet sales are up by 24%, that is not very good at all.

this 24 percent was supposidly a one time event... probably government... which are safe fleet sales because they keep them until they need replacement... not just when they start to get old...

the only bad ones are to rental agencies... pretty much everything else is good... and anything corperate is concerned about is a major purchase from one corp to another or government... I.e. bigger then a dealership... like the deal with google and the cobalt likely didn't go directly through the dealership...

my old sales manager used to work with a fleet manager who made 150 car deal with a insurance company who needed vehicles to observe crash sites and look at damage and what not... very lucky sale but took the dealership months to finnish the order... very little profit for the dealer... but it showed volume... but this one example where the company used a dealership... something where the corp is aware of a certain sale to fleet is going to be a much larger safer fleet sale.

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this 24 percent was supposidly a one time event... probably government... which are safe fleet sales because they keep them until they need replacement... not just when they start to get old...

the only bad ones are to rental agencies... pretty much everything else is good... and anything corperate is concerned about is a major purchase from one corp to another or government... I.e. bigger then a dealership... like the deal with google and the cobalt likely didn't go directly through the dealership...

my old sales manager used to work with a fleet manager who made 150 car deal with a insurance company who needed vehicles to observe crash sites and look at damage and what not... very lucky sale but took the dealership months to finnish the order... very little profit for the dealer... but it showed volume... but this one example where the company used a dealership... something where the corp is aware of a certain sale to fleet is going to be a much larger safer fleet sale.

But serious money can be made when those vehicles are returned to the dealer. We've pulled off a few high volume sales to the Canadian government, involving Malibus and Corollas (through our Toyota store) and the used car guys can't wait until those vehicles come back in a couple years. (And it should be noted, that these civil servants can driver either a 1.8 equipped Corolla for the same price as the far better equipped Malibu.) Even if the dealer only makes a couple hundred dollars a car, GM still makes their money and then the cars will be re-sold through the dealer down the road.

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But serious money can be made when those vehicles are returned to the dealer. We've pulled off a few high volume sales to the Canadian government, involving Malibus and Corollas (through our Toyota store) and the used car guys can't wait until those vehicles come back in a couple years. (And it should be noted, that these civil servants can driver either a 1.8 equipped Corolla for the same price as the far better equipped Malibu.) Even if the dealer only makes a couple hundred dollars a car, GM still makes their money and then the cars will be re-sold through the dealer down the road.

Which is the exact problem for GM....lots of competition for their NEW product come return time.

I can't believe you guys are giving GM a free pass on this one. They've completely done exactly what they said they would no longer do! AS usual, the corporate ADD ruins a sound plan on their behalf, just like the side-by-side-by-side campaign for Aura...

Better product + Same old management CYA = Failure. (Most GM dealers in my region are running at 75% of target sales--that ain't good enough)

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Which is the exact problem for GM....lots of competition for their NEW product come return time.

I can't believe you guys are giving GM a free pass on this one. They've completely done exactly what they said they would no longer do! AS usual, the corporate ADD ruins a sound plan on their behalf, just like the side-by-side-by-side campaign for Aura...

Better product + Same old management CYA = Failure. (Most GM dealers in my region are running at 75% of target sales--that ain't good enough)

Enzl, Enzl, Enzl - we have sparred over this before. Please, read. I am speaking about Fleet sales that, legally, GM cannot stop. The dealer can sell the damned vehicles to whomever we please, as you should know. If we sell 50 Malibus to the Canadian government at OUR cost, that is OUR business, not GM's. Fleeting must be different in the U.S., because up here it is done through the dealer and GM makes more money on the fleet deals (no zero percents, no Visa points, etc) than they do on most retail deals. If the fleet customer keep the Malibus for 4 years - how the f$#k does that effect resale?

And you conveniently missed the point that we also fleeted TOYOTAS to the same client. And, for your information, 2007 Malibus and Impalas are rarer than hen's teeth at the auctions these days - around here.

To repeat the aforementioned post: there are 'good' and 'bad' fleet deals. Coca Cola buying 200 Malibus for their sales employees to drive to clients is a GOOD fleet sale. The vehicles will have 60,000 miles on them when they are traded back in two or three years. Rental sales, I suppose, are BAD, but at the end of the day, a sale is a sale.

These constant attacks on Fleet sales are getting tired. Resale values of models, whether poor or not, are effected by a myriad of factors - fleet may be only one of them. Perception has more to do with resale value than anything else. If our Toyota store keeps bashing GM and keeps jacking up the prices of their used Camries, then the 'perception' is that they are a better car and, therefore, a better deal.

I am not guilty of giving GM a free pass on anything. I am up front in my opinions and have no ulterior motives whatsoever. I am a DETROIT fan and have hated Japanese products since I took Japanese trade policies in University. I also 'hate' Chinese products because they are shoddy and because we are wholesaling our future to save a few bucks.

I prefer to look at the Big Picture. I will tell you one thing that I am not: I am not a wolf in sheep's clothing. I do not haunt Toyota Nation to bash Toyota at every turn. I cannot be bothered. Can that be said for certain people around here?

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Enzl, Enzl, Enzl - we have sparred over this before. Please, read. I am speaking about Fleet sales that, legally, GM cannot stop. The dealer can sell the damned vehicles to whomever we please, as you should know. If we sell 50 Malibus to the Canadian government at OUR cost, that is OUR business, not GM's. Fleeting must be different in the U.S., because up here it is done through the dealer and GM makes more money on the fleet deals (no zero percents, no Visa points, etc) than they do on most retail deals. If the fleet customer keep the Malibus for 4 years - how the f$#k does that effect resale?

And you conveniently missed the point that we also fleeted TOYOTAS to the same client. And, for your information, 2007 Malibus and Impalas are rarer than hen's teeth at the auctions these days - around here.

To repeat the aforementioned post: there are 'good' and 'bad' fleet deals. Coca Cola buying 200 Malibus for their sales employees to drive to clients is a GOOD fleet sale. The vehicles will have 60,000 miles on them when they are traded back in two or three years. Rental sales, I suppose, are BAD, but at the end of the day, a sale is a sale.

These constant attacks on Fleet sales are getting tired. Resale values of models, whether poor or not, are effected by a myriad of factors - fleet may be only one of them. Perception has more to do with resale value than anything else. If our Toyota store keeps bashing GM and keeps jacking up the prices of their used Camries, then the 'perception' is that they are a better car and, therefore, a better deal.

I am not guilty of giving GM a free pass on anything. I am up front in my opinions and have no ulterior motives whatsoever. I am a DETROIT fan and have hated Japanese products since I took Japanese trade policies in University. I also 'hate' Chinese products because they are shoddy and because we are wholesaling our future to save a few bucks.

I prefer to look at the Big Picture. I will tell you one thing that I am not: I am not a wolf in sheep's clothing. I do not haunt Toyota Nation to bash Toyota at every turn. I cannot be bothered. Can that be said for certain people around here?

US Fleet = Low or nonexistent profit and quick return to market as used...

If cutting these type of 'fleet' sales wasn't important, how come GM has crowed about reducing fleeting in EVERY press release regarding (lower) sales numbers...except, coincidentally, August 2007?

I have no ulterior motives, only the truth, which is, BTW, that GM has again abandoned a decent idea before it could see true results. It's BS, and even if you don't like the messenger, what I'm saying is 100% accurate.

Giving fans the false impression you've turned the corner helps no one. If Detroit drops dead, its because of management negligence, as exemplified by this latest short sighted, hypocritical & misleading move to puff Aug #'s that they knew would be bad.

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Don't forget an entire plant building Trailblazers has already been closed—I don't think there is that large a backlog, although even the 4Runner has a lot of sales to rental fleets. Despite the decline in the segment (which has affected all the major entries equally) the Trailblazer has more than held its own. Although sales are down for the year overall, it is on track to unseat the Explorer as America's best-selling midsize SUV/crossover, and may yet retain its crown as GM's best-selling SUV as well, if it can maintain its recent advantage over the Tahoe.

Which means it should be freshened and kept around IMO.

If cutting these type of 'fleet' sales wasn't important, how come GM has crowed about reducing fleeting in EVERY press release regarding (lower) sales numbers...except, coincidentally, August 2007?

It's as much for image as anything else... It's pretty sad when even the media constantly crows about how much your company fleets and about how your products are "fleet" products. IMO this apsect of the business is none of their damn concern.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM

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Which means it should be freshened and kept around IMO.

Give it a whole new interior, reskin the exterior, give all models the SS's suspension tuning and there you go. Also replace the Colorado with a pickup based on it and the platform will be good for quite some time.

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if fleet sales are so bad

then why are hyundai and toyota tripping over themselves to sell as many cars to fleets as they can? the hertz by my place is awash in toyotas and hyundais and have you looked at used car listings these days? A popular used broker/dealer in town here which normally stock on average of 150 cars or so, 3 years ago sold no hyundais and now they have like 20+ including about 15 06/07 sonatas..........

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if fleet sales are so bad

then why are hyundai and toyota tripping over themselves to sell as many cars to fleets as they can? the hertz by my place is awash in toyotas and hyundais and have you looked at used car listings these days? A popular used broker/dealer in town here which normally stock on average of 150 cars or so, 3 years ago sold no hyundais and now they have like 20+ including about 15 06/07 sonatas..........

If they were a great idea, why would Ford & GM crow about reducing said sales, every month that their #'s dropped?

Hyundai is tripping, clearly, but Toyota is still below 10%fleet mix of total sales...when GM gets to 10%, pigs will fly, my friend!

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If they were a great idea, why would Ford & GM crow about reducing said sales, every month that their #'s dropped?

Hyundai is tripping, clearly, but Toyota is still below 10%fleet mix of total sales...when GM gets to 10%, pigs will fly, my friend!

TOO SHUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU UP? Just throwing that out there, is all.

The trouble is that so-called enthusiasts don't get out of their BMWs and Hondas long enough to realize that many, many people end up driving a RENTAL when their 14 year old beater dies on the side of the road, and that that RENTAL could persuade that person to consider that particular vehicle they are driving. I just sold a Cobalt to a woman whose 13 year old Buick suddenly died. She was renting a G5 for a week. Yes, compared to a BMW, the G5 is a piece of crap, but this woman is a teacher and doesn't want to blow $500 on leasing a status car. She loved the G5, so bought a Cobalt. If she had rented an Excel, and it hadn't stalled or fallen apart on her, she may have been inclined to buy one of those.

Not every single person out there counts how many Discount stickers go by. There was a time when every single taxi in Toronto was an Impala or Century. That was an example of bad 'fleet' sales because even the layperson could see those cars everywhere. Now, the taxi market here is a more even mix of Impalas, Taurases, some Camries and others.

It's pretty easy to explain away why fleet sales (to rental companies only) MAY be a bad thing: when GM's market share was holding steady at 35-40%, having 100k Luminas out there to rental companies was a way of keeping the used car market going. Now, with GM's market share sliding, those 100k Malibus are a greater proportion. Toyota, on the other hand, has a slowly expanding market share and the demand for its used cars is going to be higher, partly because their new cars are so damned expensive and partly because 2 or 3 year old used Toyotas are rarer than 2 or 3 year old used Chevys. Plain simple supply and demand. Nothing evil about it.

But as long as every single newspaper, magazine and self-appointed expert internet site continues to crow that GM and Ford's sales to fleet are the source of all Evil in the Universe, sheeple will continue to believe that and buy Toyota because they were told to.

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Fleet sales are bad because they hurt resale values. The more the value drops, the less chance you have of trading it in. If you can't trade it in because your upside down, that's a lost sale.

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If they were a great idea, why would Ford & GM crow about reducing said sales, every month that their #'s dropped?

Hyundai is tripping, clearly, but Toyota is still below 10%fleet mix of total sales...when GM gets to 10%, pigs will fly, my friend!

so if toyota is dumping 50,000 camlees on the market..........that has no negative?

bull$h!. all those camrees at the auctions, same deal. 50,000 grand prixs or 50,000 cahmrhees. same deal.

i bet there are more rental return sonatas on the market right now for sale than there are new ones.

but that's ok?

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But try trading a BMW or a Mercedes in after 2 or 3 years and see if you aren't 'upside down.' The only difference may be that the MB buyer would not put zero down. The culprit with being upside down is our addiction to 'cheap' money.

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