More Bad news for Toyota:GM back ahead of Toyota

[Toyota.vs.GM]

General Motors, which fell behind Toyota in global sales for the first time in the first three months of this year ,has eged narrowly ahead of its Japanese rival in terms of 2007 sales.Toyota global sales for the first nine months of the year hit 7.05 million vehicles, up 7 percent from a year ago,the Japanese automaker announced early Monday.GM released figures last week which showed global sales of 7.06 million, which was up 2 percent from a year ago.

Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco had no comment on the comparison to GM sales.GM spokesman John McDonald also said the company wasn't particularly concerned with whether it was in first or second place in the sales count. We're not focused on being Number 1 and who's Number 2 said McDonald.We like being Number 1,We've been number 1 for 76 years on an annual basis.But while it's a real interesting story to the media,I don't know a single customer who uses that criteria when making the decision on where to buy .

Tom Libby,senior director of industry analysis for JD Power,agreed with McDonald that there is limited significance to which automaker is Number 1 in global sales and which is Number 2.But he said that the fact that GM moved back in front of Toyota is a sign that it was wrong for many industry experts to write it off earlier this year because of past problems.:More at the link Edited October 22, 2007 by Toyota.vs.GM

[Camino LS6]

I told you so. :AH-HA_wink:

Funny how the "Naysayers Club" has been so quiet lately.

This battle will continue for quite some time.

[andy82471]

I told you so. :AH-HA_wink:

Funny how the "Naysayers Club" has been so quiet lately.

This battle will continue for quite some time.

Yes definitely. It seems like the momentum (at least for now ) is on GM's side. The reason Toyota fell behind GM is because it lost sales in the 3rd quarter here in the US. GM also lost sales here but more than made up for it overseas. I guess it comes down to the last quarter sales and production figure. This could go either way.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Toyota:moving backwards

[z28luvr01]

Sounds like the fat lady sang before she was supposed to.

[RJB]

It doesn't help either with Toyota's latest batch of recalls, and Consumer Reports dropped the Camry and Tundra off the recommended list...ha ha!!

[I hope GMRULES again]

Nice to hear but I'm not ready to celebrate yet.

[Drew Dowdell]

Sounds like the fat lady sang before she was supposed to.

Don't let her sit on the tailgate of a Tundra!!!!!!

[ellives]

Good news however Toyota has a way of being very patient... waiting and working and steadily improving. Their product (particularly the Tundra) needs to get better and GM needs to continue to improve their cost structure. Who can do more faster?

[Dragon]

Toyota global sales for the first nine months of the year hit 7.05 million vehicles, up 7 percent from a year ago

yup horrible news. don't know how toyota will survive this setback

[enzl]

As one of the naysayers, I'll put in my .02:

Big Shrug, as the speed with which Toyota has reached their current sales is still nothing short of astounding.

As many here have stated before, the sales crown really doesn't matter--its profitability & product.

GM deserves alot of credit for their recent successes, but, unfortunately, all of that means nothing if the future product and resultant profits aren't there. With the Union & Healthcare issues retired, there are no more excuses available...nor is there alot of margin for error.

Toyota has now exhibited some weakness---it's up to the competition to take advantage of those opennings...

[Drew Dowdell]

Was sacrificing their reputation for outstanding reliability worth it to reach #1?

[Oracle of Delphi]

It's time GM had a little self respect and ended the NUMMI experiment!

[GMTruckGuy74]

It's time GM had a little self respect and ended the NUMMI experiment!

+1

[gm4life]

This is good news, but I am not going to jump up and down yet. I want to see Malibu sales, and also new CTS sales!

[Imaj]

If GM doesn't reverse the slide in NA, it is bound to loose sales lead to Toyota.

[CARBIZ]

If GM doesn't reverse the slide in NA, it is bound to loose sales lead to Toyota.

True enough, but in since the bottom dropped out 2 years ago and Toyota took off the gloves (after years of pretending to be just another 'gosh, gee-whiz' polite car company), there has never been such a tide of negativity and alarm coming from the North American media about teflon Toyota, has there? Two years ago, Toyota could walk on water, but now even the illustrious CR is having second thoughts. Most shockingly, CR has even admitted to giving Toyota a free pass all these years.

So, while the momentum may still seem to be with Toyota, remember that it still took the Titanic a mile or so before it came to a stop after hitting the iceberg.

[ellives]

As one of the naysayers, I'll put in my .02:

Big Shrug, as the speed with which Toyota has reached their current sales is still nothing short of astounding.

As many here have stated before, the sales crown really doesn't matter--its profitability & product.

GM deserves alot of credit for their recent successes, but, unfortunately, all of that means nothing if the future product and resultant profits aren't there. With the Union & Healthcare issues retired, there are no more excuses available...nor is there alot of margin for error.

Toyota has now exhibited some weakness---it's up to the competition to take advantage of those opennings...

There has been an improvement it GM's situation with healthcare liabilities but I still haven't seen any one say there are at parity with Toyota in labor costs.

[hyperv6]

I would use a little caution here as creative accounting will be going on on both sides.

Either way it still shows GM has still got game but it is still a close race.

[CMG]

Don't let her sit on the tailgate of a Tundra!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!

[Camino LS6]

I would use a little caution here as creative accounting will be going on on both sides.

Either way it still shows GM has still got game but it is still a close race.

Agreed.

But GM has obviously stepped up lately while Toyota has faltered.

[CMG]

I'm sure both companies have strategies to get the numbers on their sides, and I'm sure both companies are trying to study the other company's strategies.

With the crown will come a few sales I'm sure....

[AxelTheRed]

It's time GM had a little self respect and ended the NUMMI experiment!

Agreed.

[thegriffon]

Yes definitely. It seems like the momentum (at least for now ) is on GM's side. The reason Toyota fell behind GM is because it lost sales in the 3rd quarter here in the US. GM also lost sales here but more than made up for it overseas. I guess it comes down to the last quarter sales and production figure. This could go either way.

Toyota's 3rd quarter sales declined in several major markets, not just NA, while GM's increased. Part of Toyota's decline can be put down to an uncharacteristic interruption in the availability of several models during the switch to a new generation, however, for GM to retake the sales crown it has duly grown sales faster than Toyota. Indeed sales growth in most regions outside NA has been phenomenal, thanks largely to Chevrolet. Toyota is also facing the same problem GM has long faced in NA. In most markets, including Europe, it is no longer a small, growing brand, but a large established one, in many markets the biggest brand, with the largest vehicle lineup. In these markets there simply isn't anywhere for the brand to grow anymore—no profitable niches it hasn't already entered, no demographic which is not yet familiar with the company and its strengths. From now on it comes down to the same hard slog of that every other major automaker faces in their established markets. GM on the other hand has new brands that consumers are only now learning about, and whose sales have nowhere to go but up as they enter new segments and are recognized by more and more consumers. What brands are they? Chevrolet, Cadillac and Hummer. Each of these brands was virtually unknown outside the Americas, and each has enormous gaps in their lineup yet to be filled in these markets. In many respects GM is better positioned to grow in new markets and segments, and to respond to higher fuel prices and alternative fuels than Toyota, or any other automaker. The Hummer H3 will take sales from Jeep, but in many markets (especially once the diesel comes online) the key sufferer will be Toyota's Land Cruiser 120. The Volt will take sales from the Prius, even if it is a flop. The Gamma crossovers will take sales from the RAV4. In these and other segments Toyota often has as much market share as there is to take. Even an unsuccessful product from GM (or most other automakers) will cost Toyota sales, and boost GMs. What you've seen happening to GM in NA is about to happen to Toyota globally (although no doubt Toyota will do a better job of resisting than GM did in the previous 30 years). Edited October 23, 2007 by thegriffon

[I hope GMRULES again]

Interesting post. Imagine if they would have thought of taking the Chevrolet brand global 40 years ago were it would be today. Here in NA I'm hoping the new Accord can take sales from the Camry if the Malibu can't.

[gm4life]

All I have to say is...

[Shantanu]

Interesting post. Imagine if they would have thought of taking the Chevrolet brand global 40 years ago were it would be today. Here in NA I'm hoping the new Accord can take sales from the Camry if the Malibu can't.

Also imagine where GM would be today, if they had some foresight and seriously developed foreign export markets for American made cars. They'd be making a killing right now, with the cheapest dollar in history.

[CMG]

Imagine if North America had the same automobile import restrictions as Japan has had through the years....

:AH-HA_wink:

[andy82471]

Toyota's 3rd quarter sales declined in several major markets, not just NA, while GM's increased. Part of Toyota's decline can be put down to an uncharacteristic interruption in the availability of several models during the switch to a new generation, however, for GM to retake the sales crown it has duly grown sales faster than Toyota. Indeed sales growth in most regions outside NA has been phenomenal, thanks largely to Chevrolet. Toyota is also facing the same problem GM has long faced in NA. In most markets, including Europe, it is no longer a small, growing brand, but a large established one, in many markets the biggest brand, with the largest vehicle lineup. In these markets there simply isn't anywhere for the brand to grow anymore—no profitable niches it hasn't already entered, no demographic which is not yet familiar with the company and its strengths. From now on it comes down to the same hard slog of that every other major automaker faces in their established markets. GM on the other hand has new brands that consumers are only now learning about, and whose sales have nowhere to go but up as they enter new segments and are recognized by more and more consumers. What brands are they? Chevrolet, Cadillac and Hummer. Each of these brands was virtually unknown outside the Americas, and each has enormous gaps in their lineup yet to be filled in these markets. In many respects GM is better positioned to grow in new markets and segments, and to respond to higher fuel prices and alternative fuels than Toyota, or any other automaker. The Hummer H3 will take sales from Jeep, but in many markets (especially once the diesel comes online) the key sufferer will be Toyota's Land Cruiser 120. The Volt will take sales from the Prius, even if it is a flop. The Gamma crossovers will take sales from the RAV4. In these and other segments Toyota often has as much market share as there is to take. Even an unsuccessful product from GM (or most other automakers) will cost Toyota sales, and boost GMs. What you've seen happening to GM in NA is about to happen to Toyota globally (although no doubt Toyota will do a better job of resisting than GM did in the previous 30 years).

I agree with most of the points you are making and the newer GM models coupled with the UAW deal should help out GM a lot. Toyota's new product for the 4th quarter of this year are the Scion Xb and Xd and a new Corolla sometime early next year. Not sure if that will be enough to make them the biggest. I think gas prices will also be a huge factor in terms of who becomes the biggest. Toyota (rightly or wrongly) is still thought of as an environmentally freindly automaker and I hope the upcoming Astra and Chevy Volt changes people's opinion of GM.

[andy82471]

I wonder if falling sales for Chrysler and FORD helped GM in the third quarter. I bet a lot of people who never would consider an import are flocking to GM from Chrysler and Ford.

[CARBIZ]

Imagine if North America had the same automobile import restrictions as Japan has had through the years....

:AH-HA_wink:

It would have been better if the American auto industry hadn't looked down its nose at the Japanese market 60 years ago. Back when America was dictating terms to Japan, if Ford or GM had seen any potential to the Japanese market, things would have turned out quite differently. However, at that time everything Japanese was deemed 'junk.' American industry (like the military in 1938!) vastly underestimated the tenacity and will of the Japanese people. Unlike the West, which likes to apologize and contemplate every move, the East moves in unison. The U.S. was more concerned about acquiring 'rights' to building military bases on Japanese soil to monitor China than worrying about what Japan was really up to.

Seen through the eyes of 1950 America, who could blame them?

[Z-06]

I agree with most of the points you are making and the newer GM models coupled with the UAW deal should help out GM a lot. Toyota's new product for the 4th quarter of this year are the Scion Xb and Xd and a new Corolla sometime early next year. Not sure if that will be enough to make them the biggest. I think gas prices will also be a huge factor in terms of who becomes the biggest. Toyota (rightly or wrongly) is still thought of as an environmentally freindly automaker and I hope the upcoming Astra and Chevy Volt changes people's opinion of GM.

The Crapolla is due for the Halloween Horror release in less than a week.

[K.C.]

Toyota's 3rd quarter sales declined in several major markets, not just NA, while GM's increased. Part of Toyota's decline can be put down to an uncharacteristic interruption in the availability of several models during the switch to a new generation, however, for GM to retake the sales crown it has duly grown sales faster than Toyota. Indeed sales growth in most regions outside NA has been phenomenal, thanks largely to Chevrolet. Toyota is also facing the same problem GM has long faced in NA. In most markets, including Europe, it is no longer a small, growing brand, but a large established one, in many markets the biggest brand, with the largest vehicle lineup. In these markets there simply isn't anywhere for the brand to grow anymore—no profitable niches it hasn't already entered, no demographic which is not yet familiar with the company and its strengths. From now on it comes down to the same hard slog of that every other major automaker faces in their established markets. GM on the other hand has new brands that consumers are only now learning about, and whose sales have nowhere to go but up as they enter new segments and are recognized by more and more consumers. What brands are they? Chevrolet, Cadillac and Hummer. Each of these brands was virtually unknown outside the Americas, and each has enormous gaps in their lineup yet to be filled in these markets. In many respects GM is better positioned to grow in new markets and segments, and to respond to higher fuel prices and alternative fuels than Toyota, or any other automaker. The Hummer H3 will take sales from Jeep, but in many markets (especially once the diesel comes online) the key sufferer will be Toyota's Land Cruiser 120. The Volt will take sales from the Prius, even if it is a flop. The Gamma crossovers will take sales from the RAV4. In these and other segments Toyota often has as much market share as there is to take. Even an unsuccessful product from GM (or most other automakers) will cost Toyota sales, and boost GMs. What you've seen happening to GM in NA is about to happen to Toyota globally (although no doubt Toyota will do a better job of resisting than GM did in the previous 30 years).

Great post. I completely agree.