Edmunds Drives the Malibu

[Z-06]

Linklity

With Nov. 1 Press Embargo out look for more first drive of the Chevy.

Chevy Delivers on the Hype

By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit Email

Date posted: 11-01-2007

Here's the short answer on the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu: It's good.

After almost a year's worth of buildup and anticipation, we have now driven the new Malibu. So the time has finally come to pass judgment.

You'll forgive us if we were a bit skeptical about the vehicle that GM's car khan Bob Lutz calls "one of the most important in 100 years for Chevy." We've been through this more than a couple times with domestic carmakers, a sequence of over-promise and under-delivery followed by over-promise on the next generation, and so forth and so on.

And so it is with considerable relief that we report that Chevy has broadly hit its mark with the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu.

Talking the Talk

This might sound remarkable, but the most notable thing about Chevy's presentation of the '08 Malibu is its stark assessment of the company's past performance with this model. Consider this sampling of honesty from GM executives:

"We'll take on the quality challenge which we've avoided in the past."

"It's going to take an extensive amount of time to get it [changing consumer perceptions] done."

"We came to work every day humble, with our heads down."

You might think that it would be difficult to not acknowledge the failings of its recent past, given how Honda, Nissan, Toyota and other players including Hyundai have absolutely eaten Chevy's lunch for the past couple of decades. But trust us, we've seen them attempt to swerve, duck and leap around that 800-pound gorilla before.

Speak Quietly

Chevy is taking a fairly sensible approach with the Malibu. The company has defined a couple of areas where it believes the Malibu can be best-in-class and has devoted human and financial resources to achieve it. According to Chevy, these areas include styling and the control of noise, vibration and harshness.

Repeated viewings of the car over the last year have drained some of the drama out of the Malibu's new look. But the car is smoothly handsome and free of styling gimmicks, which bodes well for its long-term appeal. And it has none of the self-conscious oddness of recent Honda and Toyota designs. At the very least, few potential customers will be put off by the new Malibu's look.

But styling is a largely subjective matter. Noise, vibration and harshness are far less so. Chevy spent the money to use quiet laminated glass for the windshield and the front-seat windows to reduce wind noise in the Malibu's cabin. The company specified spray-on acoustic insulation and composite liners within the wheel wells to reduce road noise. And more sound deadening at the dash and tighter orifices in the firewall reduce the amount of engine noise that can leak into the cabin.

Special attention went into controlling the honking ruckus that intake air makes while entering the standard 169-horsepower 2.4-liter inline-4, which Chevy anticipates will power 70 percent of all the Malibu models sold. Incoming air encounters nine tuners and resonators before reaching the engine. The effect is, well, the absence of vice. The engine seems smoother and the average driver is probably more likely to keep his foot on the gas because the engine doesn't sound like it's eating itself. Meanwhile the optional 252-hp V6 is so smooth and sonorous that it feels plenty powerful mated to the standard six-speed automatic, even though it's not the most powerful V6 in its class.

Careful tuning of the Malibu's engine mounts also quells much of the vibration that would otherwise come zinging through the steering column and unibody. Whether you're in a Malibu four or V6, the car feels serene. This lends the Malibu a perceived quality that is worth whatever GM paid to get it done. (Naturally, the company won't say how much that might be.)

Welcome to Pleasantville

The new Malibu shares the same basic chassis as the well-received Saturn Aura, and this means the expected MacPherson strut front suspension and multilink independent rear. It differs from the Aura only in tuning, really. Chevrolet says it used a new tuning philosophy for the Malibu, and as far as we can tell, this means the car now slots between the mushy Camry and the sporty Accord.

For now, we've only driven the Malibu on smooth roads in Tennessee and Mississippi. Still, we feel comfortable saying Chevy has achieved its target here. The Malibu's big body (it rides on a 112.3-inch wheelbase that's the longest in its class) feels well-controlled over low-frequency undulations. It does not float. It does not bounce. The Malibu will not goad its operator into pushing the car to the outer limits of its performance envelope, but its high-speed cornering and general deportment is poised and confidence-inspiring.

The Malibu makes for an excellent highway cruiser. Sharper suspension inputs from things such as tar strips are not absorbed entirely but are largely heard as a light "thwack" rather than felt. Front and rear seat passengers will have little to complain about in terms of ride quality.

Our only major quibble with the Malibu's dynamic package is its steering. Models with the four-cylinder engine feature electrically assisted steering, which has a short and ugly history at GM. (We're still trying to cleanse our memory of any recollection of the first-generation Saturn Vue.) Models with the V6 use conventional hydraulic assist. Neither is very good.

The electric assist feels less artificial than it used to, and GM should get some credit for that. But neither system feels natural or linear in the way, say, a Honda Accord's steering does. The Malibu's steering wheel feels dead on-center and then seems to abruptly come to life as you begin your turn. This might not be a deal-breaker for consumers, but it might be for people like us who like to drive.

The Story Inside

Passengers won't have a whole lot to complain about in terms of interior accoutrements. This Chevrolet sedan actually has a pretty nice interior. The dual-cowl architecture is a great improvement over the passionless previous interior. It also appears to be assembled with care.

Overall the new interior is attractive and cosseting, and it's even available in two-tone combinations with sassy names such as Brick, Cashmere and Cocoa. And they actually look pretty good. In the class, only the Accord's interior really stands clearly above the Malibu's effort, while the Camry shows evidence of Toyota's cost-consciousness and is certainly no better in terms of either design consistency or materials quality.

The Malibu's instrumentation and controls are clear and sensibly laid out, and there's plenty of room in the cabin both front and rear. We wish GM could figure out a way to make passenger grab handles compatible with the car's standard side curtain airbags. And we think it's a mistake on GM's part not to offer a navigation system. The company believes that OnStar (standard for every Malibu) and its turn-by-turn navigation is a good substitute. It's not. We tried it on our drive and found that at first it wouldn't work at all. Then it did work after awhile, but we kept a map at the ready because we had no faith in it.

The Heart of the, Um, Beast

The Malibu's powertrain offerings are par for the class. The 2.4-liter inline-4 is standard for all three trim lines, and its 169 hp and 160 lb-ft of torque put it squarely in the middle of the output range of the competition's offerings. Chevy's optional 24-valve 3.6-liter V6 makes a credible 252 hp and 251 lb-ft of torque. That's less than the big three Japanese-brand sedans but more than the Dodge Avenger, Ford Fusion and Hyundai Sonata can muster.

Despite a standard six-speed automatic, the V6-equipped Malibu returns fuel economy figures of 17 mpg city and 26 highway — a couple of mpg worse than its competitors. Possibly this is due in part to the Malibu's heft. At 3,649 pounds, the Malibu V6 is the fat kid of the group.

Even so, the Malibu four returns fuel economy of 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway, which is competitive in its class. This fuel economy number is an estimate based on the four-cylinder mated with the four-speed automatic. Next spring, the four-cylinder will be offered with a six-speed automatic, which should improve the fuel economy numbers as well as the driving experience.

As it is, the four gear ratios in the current transmission feel too widely spaced and not capable of keeping the inline-4 in its power band. For now, we recommend the V6.

The Malibu will also be offered with the same mild-hybrid powertrain as the Saturn Aura Green Line and should return 24 mpg in the city and 32 mpg on the highway. The electric motor adds only 6-7 horsepower to the gas engine under heavy load, so it's basically a four-cylinder car with an idle shut-off feature. It doesn't seem like a lot of efficiency improvement considering the $1,800 price premium over the standard car. Of course, the substantial federal tax break reduces the added cost of the hybrid to about $500 more.

Happy Crashing!

If you're the kind of driver who runs into things, you'll be happy to know that the Malibu will cover virtually the entire interior with inflatable bags.

Front and rear head curtain side-impact bags and front-seat-mounted thorax bags are standard, along with dual-stage front bags. Standard ABS and traction control along with electronic stability control (standard on the Malibu LT and Malibu LTZ models) are there to prevent impromptu testing of any of those airbags.

There isn't a competitor that offers a better allotment of standard safety features.

Furnishings and Financials

The base-level $19,995 LS comes with 16-inch wheels, the above-mentioned safety gear and XM Satellite Radio. The LT version adds 17-inch wheels, dual chrome exhaust tips and drive shift control. The full-zoot LTZ adds 18-inch wheels, LED taillamps and foglamps. It starts at $26,995. The Malibu Hybrid carries a $22,790 base price. Even though the new car starts a couple thousand dollars higher than the outgoing model, the 2008 Malibu is competitively priced.

So the Malibu is good. Let's hope it's the beginning of a long sustained effort to regain and retain a competitive position in the midsize market for Chevy, and in passenger cars generally.

For now, Chevy is talking the right talk and has made its first step in a long walk.

Edmunds attended a manufacturer-sponsored event, to which selected members of the press were invited, to facilitate this report.

[bowtie_dude]

As I said in another thread, Edmunds Insideline reviews are a very good read. This seems to be a very fair and honest review, and its very positive overall.

And, like I spent pages arguing in another thread, the fact that GM doesn't offer a navigation will be mentioned in every review of the new Malibu.

[Drew Dowdell]

As I said in another thread, Edmunds Insideline reviews are a very good read. This seems to be a very fair and honest review, and its very positive overall.

And, like I spent pages arguing in another thread, the fact that GM doesn't offer a navigation will be mentioned in every review of the new Malibu.

and yet won't significantly effect sales...

[Dsuupr]

So far all of the reviews on the new Malibu seem positive. No longer do the articles read, great car but still not as good as honda and toyota. They all have the same theme; try the Chevy BEFORE purchasing a honda or toyota.

Now lets hope the Cobalt replacement comes soon, and with the same type of comments.

[bowtie_dude]

and yet won't significantly effect sales...

I'll go ahead and rehash this, but 5-10% of sales of the Accord and Camry equates to about 35-70k a year. Thats quite a chunk GM is missing out on.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'll go ahead and rehash this, but 5-10% of sales of the Accord and Camry equates to about 35-70k a year. Thats quite a chunk GM is missing out on.

Toyota sold 448,000 Camries last year. Wake me when Malibu sells better than 2/3s of that.

[bowtie_dude]

Toyota sold 448,000 Camries last year. Wake me when Malibu sells better than 2/3s of that.

When GM offers the Malibu with things people want, it may do just that.

[ToniCipriani]

"Interior design shows cost-consciousness"

Why on earth can't they just say "cheap interior".

[Northstar]

I'll go ahead and rehash this, but 5-10% of sales of the Accord and Camry equates to about 35-70k a year. Thats quite a chunk GM is missing out on.

I don't think 1 in 10 Camcords have NAV. Probably closer to 1 in 30 than 1 in 20, too. Even if 1 in 20 have NAV, 35k is not a very big number compared to the size of the midsize market as a whole.

Does that mean that the Malibu shouldn't offer NAV? No, but it's not going to make it or break it for most people.

Think about it this way:

Let's say the midsize market consisting of the Camry, Accord, Altima, Malibu, Fusion, G6, Mazda6, Sebring, Avenger, etc. (Malibu's competitors) is 1.75 million units. Now, let's assume that 1 in 20 of the vehicles sold has NAV... that's 87500 vehicles. So, that would be 87500 vehicles that GM won't be getting the sales of, most likely. However, GM still has the chance to get 1.6625 million customers. GM only aims to sell 200k Malibu's/year, so it has to land 1 out of every 8.3 customers with the Malibu, or 12.3% of the market. If it did offer NAV and still wanted to sell 200k Malibus, it would have to land 1 out of every 8.75 customers, or 11.4% of the market.

Not having NAV is not hurting GM that much, and if GM reaches it's target of 200k vehicles/year it really doesn't matter too much to the bottom line. Perhaps the 10000 Malibus that it might sell with NAV would have a higher profit margin, but it's still not hurting them that much.

[Dsuupr]

The NAV isn't about what people will buy. It's about giving the car that upscale look in the ads and brochures. GM needs NAV in their cars and they need the Black Tie replacement. I know this Malibu was to early for the later, but there is no excuse from GM on the NAV (and this coming from a very pro-GM person).

[pow]

As I said in another thread, Edmunds Insideline reviews are a very good read. This seems to be a very fair and honest review, and its very positive overall.

And, like I spent pages arguing in another thread, the fact that GM doesn't offer a navigation will be mentioned in every review of the new Malibu.

Daniel Pund is good. I've always enjoyed reading his reviews back when he wrote for C&D.

I'm looking forward to trying out the LTZ four-cylinder six-speed when it becomes available.

[BigPontiac]

The NAV isn't about what people will buy. It's about giving the car that upscale look in the ads and brochures. GM needs NAV in their cars and they need the Black Tie replacement. I know this Malibu was to early for the later, but there is no excuse from GM on the NAV (and this coming from a very pro-GM person).

I'd worry about something more basic like BLUETOOTH capability before worrying about offering NAV.

[pow]

I'd worry about something more basic like BLUETOOTH capability before worrying about offering NAV.

Agreed. The Camry, Altima, Accord, Fusion, Milan, Avenger, Sebring, and Passat all have Bluetooth. I have a feeling OnStar has too much of an influence on product planning; not everyone wants to switch to Verizon.

[CARBIZ]

We got our first Malibu today: a base LS in antique bronze metallic with the cocoa interior. I gotta say: WOW. Having driven the Aura (in which I wasn't overly impressed), I have to say that the Malibu is a huge improvement over the Aura. My only complain is the trunk opening is small, similar to the Cobalt concern. But the over all impression when one sits behind the wheel is shock and awe - especially considering this vehicle is about $1,500 cheaper than the base Accord. The two-tone interior works very well - and I am not a big fan of brown!

I hope GM doesn't get greedy just yet. Keep the programs and incentives aggressive. We may still be forced to sell a bit on price/value for the time being until the word is out what a truly impressive car this is. I think GM has a winner with this one, but how they handle the advertising remains to be seen.

[Drew Dowdell]

When GM offers the Malibu with things people want, it may do just that.

Sorry, offering a $2,000 NAV system on top of the $22,000 the car is already going for is not going to push sales over 300k... especially in the economy we're heading into. Just file it under notgonnahappen

[Drew Dowdell]

When GM offers the Malibu with things people want, it may do just that.

also... how has just having NAV available worked out for Ford on the Fusion, Milan, Taurus, and Sable?

[frogger]

Damn import humping press

[2QuickZ's]

While I do think people won't take this car (or the Aura) 100% seriously until it has an available nav system, I think people who buy a factory nav system are crazy. Save your money and spend a fraction of the cost on an aftermarket Garmin or similar nav system that is portable if you need nav that bad. I'd have to believe you get very little return on your investment in any overpriced factory nav system when you sell the car.

[daves87rs]

While I do think people won't take this car (or the Aura) 100% seriously until it has an available nav system, I think people who buy a factory nav system are crazy. Save your money and spend a fraction of the cost on an aftermarket Garmin or similar nav system that is portable if you need nav that bad. I'd have to believe you get very little return on your investment in any overpriced factory nav system when you sell the car.

Doubtful. This is the car peoplr might actually but instead leasing...Nav will pretty much go the way of the 8 track in the next few years...

It's cheaper( and smarter) to use a portable NAV or just use their cell phone...

[regfootball]

Toyota sold fleeted 448,000 Camries last year. Wake me when Malibu sells better than 2/3s of that.

edited.

NAV should be offered on the Malibu, but for like 500 bucks. Its dumb for chevy to offer nav and try to charge 2 grand for it.

let chevy offer it when they can beat all competitors on price. my guess is also they are trying to find a way to integrate the on star turn by turn with a traditional screen nav. when they do that, look out.

in the meantime, chevy won't lose any sales because of it.

oldsmoboi, you're spot on

Edited November 3, 2007 by regfootball

[regfootball]

We got our first Malibu today: a base LS in antique bronze metallic with the cocoa interior. I gotta say: WOW. Having driven the Aura (in which I wasn't overly impressed), I have to say that the Malibu is a huge improvement over the Aura. My only complain is the trunk opening is small, similar to the Cobalt concern. But the over all impression when one sits behind the wheel is shock and awe - especially considering this vehicle is about $1,500 cheaper than the base Accord. The two-tone interior works very well - and I am not a big fan of brown!

I hope GM doesn't get greedy just yet. Keep the programs and incentives aggressive. We may still be forced to sell a bit on price/value for the time being until the word is out what a truly impressive car this is. I think GM has a winner with this one, but how they handle the advertising remains to be seen.

keep in mind that the accord interior is like a big and bloated 90's sequel. it may have been assembled well, and looks great in ads, but sit in the seat and enjoy the rehashed story and script. the story of cheap matte black plastic, dour cloth, and pebble grained glossy plastic in bland forms.

hardly aspirational. look at the half ass job framing the display screen. the plastic is so glossy the photo is practically glowing

the last car with that much matte black on the center console was my old 95 tbird

Edited November 3, 2007 by regfootball

[K.C.]

Great review. Glad to see this! I hope the long term reliability will be there so this car can be a successful long after launch. Still haven't seen one in real life yet. Can't wait though.

[VenSeattle]

While having my layover at DFW airport, I noticed Don Davis Toyota was already offering $4,000 off 2008 Camrys. That can't be a good sign for still fairly new Camry. The new Malibu may not beat the Camry & Accord hand over fist, but it is now a legitimate alternative to them. That alone makes GM competitive and a posable threat.

....... As a side note, Classic Buick was only offering $2,400 off the 2008 LaCrosse, which included the $1,000 rebate. Interesting.

[CARBIZ]

keep in mind that the accord interior is like a big and bloated 90's sequel. it may have been assembled well, and looks great in ads, but sit in the seat and enjoy the rehashed story and script. the story of cheap matte black plastic, dour cloth, and pebble grained glossy plastic in bland forms.

hardly aspirational. look at the half ass job framing the display screen. the plastic is so glossy the photo is practically glowing

the last car with that much matte black on the center console was my old 95 tbird

Ah, but the Malibu LS I am talking about is about $9k less than the Accord you have pictured here! The LTZ Malibu looks a lot better than this Accord interior.

[ZL-1]

They liked it?!?!?! I call anti-Toyota Bias!!!

[The O.C.]

Agreed. The Camry, Altima, Accord, Fusion, Milan, Avenger, Sebring, and Passat all have Bluetooth. I have a feeling OnStar has too much of an influence on product planning; not everyone wants to switch to Verizon.

You are right.....OnStar DOES have way too much influence on product planning. It was that way back when I worked for Buick....and it seems to be that way now. I can GUARANTEE you one reason why Malibu doesn't offer Navigation yet is because of OnStar's (cheesy) turn-by-turn navigation. Someone at GM decides that they need to make lame-brained product decisions simply to "protect" OnStar's profitability.....

I was at the Cadillac dealer yesterday driving a new CTS for the first time.....and even though the car I tested had the (excellent) Nav system, the sales person was trying to convince me that I should "save" the money on the CTS nav system and just rely on OnStar. I told him that was crazy and totally out-of-touch with the reality of someone that wants to buy a car like the new CTS.

On my '07 CTS, I would have ordered the Nav system in a heartbeat......but it's (wierdly-so) not available with the top "Sport" package. However, I'll never pay for OnStar as a replacement.

[The O.C.]

also... how has just having NAV available worked out for Ford on the Fusion, Milan, Taurus, and Sable?

Hmmm....okay.

So let's follow Ford's lead.....

....instead of leading the pack.....

You can get Navigation on a Civic for gawd's sake.....

:angry2:

That being said, I'll take time in this post to say that I'm REALLY happy with all the enthusiastic press on this car! I still think the interior reeks of cheapness galore (mostly due to the lame door panels and the cheap center stack....the rest actually works quite nicely)....but there's no way I'd take a Camry over this new Malibu......

I can't wait to see the buff mags' midsize sedan comparos!

[Z-06]

Hmmm....okay.

So let's follow Ford's lead.....

....instead of leading the pack.....

You can get Navigation on a Civic for gawd's sake.....

:angry2:

That being said, I'll take time in this post to say that I'm REALLY happy with all the enthusiastic press on this car! I still think the interior reeks of cheapness galore (mostly due to the lame door panels and the cheap center stack....the rest actually works quite nicely)....but there's no way I'd take a Camry over this new Malibu......

I can't wait to see the buff mags' midsize sedan comparos!

It will probably look like this

1. Accord (still hump them regardless)

2. Altima (still prefer their crappy interior) or Passat

3/4. Malibu or Passat

5. Fusion

6. Crapry (Yes it has been beaten by the Fusion quite a bit of times)

7. Sonata

I did not consider the 6 or the Kia (since it is the Sonata Sibling) and the Aura (same reason as the Kia).

[The O.C.]

It will probably look like this

1. Accord (still hump them regardless)

2. Altima (still prefer their crappy interior) or Passat

3/4. Malibu or Passat

5. Fusion

6. Crapry (Yes it has been beaten by the Fusion quite a bit of times)

7. Sonata

I did not consider the 6 or the Kia (since it is the Sonata Sibling) and the Aura (same reason as the Kia).

Prolly close....although it depends on how they equip them. If they test 4-cyl models, Malibu could slide further....because of the 4-speed, and if they test an LS or LT (without the two-tone interior upgrade.)

If they test top V6 models, LTZ will probably do quite well.....but u are right...probably Accord #1, Altima #2, and them LTZ #3. Passat might not be included because of it's higher price. Camry might do better than we expect....IF they use an SE V6 with the sportier suspension tuning.

[Drew Dowdell]

edited.

NAV should be offered on the Malibu, but for like 500 bucks. Its dumb for chevy to offer nav and try to charge 2 grand for it.

let chevy offer it when they can beat all competitors on price. my guess is also they are trying to find a way to integrate the on star turn by turn with a traditional screen nav. when they do that, look out.

in the meantime, chevy won't lose any sales because of it.

oldsmoboi, you're spot on

I bet it would be insanely easy to integrate Turn-by-Turn into onscreen nav. Have the Onstar operator find the route in google maps then download a small export to the Nav system over Verizon's EVDO system.

[Drew Dowdell]

Hmmm....okay.

So let's follow Ford's lead.....

....instead of leading the pack.....

My point was that having NAV available hasn't helped Ford in this price class.

[K.C.]

Most people do not opt for NAV when they buy a car. I think it was more important for Chevy to keep the Malibu affordable than to offer options that only 10-20% of people will buck up for.

As for the Accord, I think the NAV screen could have been better incorporated into the design of the dash. I sat in a new Accord and it does not have any of the old Honda "uniqueness" that the last generation used to have. The new Accord is simply a remade Camry/Sonata with an H on the front and the same crappy transmission that has been troublesome in the last generation model.

[Drew Dowdell]

They still haven't fixed it?

It's not exactly the smoothest 5-speed on the block, that's for sure.

[CARBIZ]

You are right.....OnStar DOES have way too much influence on product planning. It was that way back when I worked for Buick....and it seems to be that way now. I can GUARANTEE you one reason why Malibu doesn't offer Navigation yet is because of OnStar's (cheesy) turn-by-turn navigation. Someone at GM decides that they need to make lame-brained product decisions simply to "protect" OnStar's profitability.....

I was at the Cadillac dealer yesterday driving a new CTS for the first time.....and even though the car I tested had the (excellent) Nav system, the sales person was trying to convince me that I should "save" the money on the CTS nav system and just rely on OnStar. I told him that was crazy and totally out-of-touch with the reality of someone that wants to buy a car like the new CTS.

On my '07 CTS, I would have ordered the Nav system in a heartbeat......but it's (wierdly-so) not available with the top "Sport" package. However, I'll never pay for OnStar as a replacement.

And someone who is seriously considering a new CTS is also going to look at the new Malibu, right? Get real. Different markets. Different people. If the new Impala doesn't have available Nav, I'd be concerned, but the Malibu is the wrong market.

And I can't believe this thread is still going on and on about the Nav system!!!

[turbo200]

one more time for all those that can't seem to let it go. there are simply different cities with different layouts that cause people to have to adapt differently. traffic patterns in LA are sometimes impossible to predict, always plentiful, and can spring up on a moment's notice; it's nice to have NAVI that will give me alternative routes on the dime. Further, there are NAVIs now that give traffic updates, like CTS, but that's another story. another BIG issue is the layout of LA. it's HUGE, it's a very expansive place--Southern California, with lots of attractive towns with vibrant culture to go to. A lot of people travel to different places daily for work, some travel for leisure, others travel for work less frequently. A NAVI saves time, in a city where time is never enough. Plus, we are close to major metropolitans and attractions of the world, San Diego, Las Vegas, Mexico!, San Fran, etc etc.

Bottom line: priorities are different everywhere and just because you can't see the need does not mean the need doesn't exist or the other side is wrong.

I just can't understand the needless bickering over a stupid issue. Learn to let go. Defending GM has caused you to take lots of mud in the face, this argument over NAVI is nothing compared to the years of quality defficiency and below average design arguments you've had to stomach. Yet you can't seem to process that GM is a company with many many flaws, and no company is without flaws, but GM, GM has shown a penchant for not changing thier ways, for many many years, just like you are now advocating they do. Get over it, and admit that GM is wrong in this case.

People are offering NAVI in their lower end cars, if GM is once again late to the party, it's just a sign they still need to learn to react and spend the dollars on the product development, and most of all LISTEN TO THE CONSUMER. If Apple hadn't updated the IPOD so many times, it would never reach the massive customer acceptance it has now. If they hadn't put the money, effort, and time to listen and react they would never have become as big as they are now.

Edited November 6, 2007 by turbo200

[Drew Dowdell]

LISTEN TO THE CONSUMER. If Apple hadn't updated the IPOD so many times, it would never reach the massive customer acceptance it has now. If they hadn't put the money, effort, and time to listen and react they would never have become as big as they are now.

If Apple has listened to the consumer, the iPod would have a user replaceable battery, music bought in iTunes wouldn't have DRM, and Leopard would run on a Dell, and the iPhone would be able to be used on any GSM network.

Sometimes products sell well just because they are crowned "The Best" by the media.

[turbo200]

this is irrelevant, are you trying to say that now the media suddenly has decided to endorse GM because thier pockets are not being lined by the imports??? and now the malibu suddenly will be a star because of it? why are you even arguing about Apple? do you just have nothing better to do?

let's just agree to this. GM has a great car on thier hands, another great car, and I think our collective bitching [excluding oldsmoboi] has somehow, even just a little bit, influenced GM's turnaround

[FAPTurbo]

Question? Couldn't GM just hook up with a company like Garmin and sell those GPS units with the vehicle?

Or do the dealers do that already?

[Drew Dowdell]

this is irrelevant, are you trying to say that now the media suddenly has decided to endorse GM because thier pockets are not being lined by the imports??? and now the malibu suddenly will be a star because of it? why are you even arguing about Apple? do you just have nothing better to do?

let's just agree to this. GM has a great car on thier hands, another great car, and I think our collective bitching [excluding oldsmoboi] has somehow, even just a little bit, influenced GM's turnaround

I do agree the Malibu is a great car. I also agree that the bitching about the previous Malibu and even the Aura has helped this car. What I was pointing out was that people bitching about there not being a NAV will have about as much difference on the sales and sucess of the car as people bitching about the iPod not having a user replaceable battery has for the iPod.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, GM could come out with a fully function model of Christ himself and people would bitch that the water to wine function only dispenses Merlot.

[turbo200]

I do agree the Malibu is a great car. I also agree that the bitching about the previous Malibu and even the Aura has helped this car. What I was pointing out was that people bitching about there not being a NAV will have about as much difference on the sales and sucess of the car as people bitching about the iPod not having a user replaceable battery has for the iPod.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, GM could come out with a fully function model of Christ himself and people would bitch that the water to wine function only dispenses Merlot.

what do you think about Lambda and CTS reviews that do nothing but praise the cars. Each car fills a different role. For what the CTS, a luxury supercruiser with phenomonal style inside and out, and a good level of power, it does its job exceedingly well. There is such a dearth of cars that exceed the expectations at GM, that people just want to see what they can do in all classes of cars. I know I'm still waiting for the performance small car at GM. They still haven't filled what I'm looking for--RSX sized coupe to replicate that cars traits with GM style and a sedan about the same size. Where are all the great cars from GM? Right now, I count very few, and this considering they have SO MANY brands. Edited November 6, 2007 by turbo200

[Drew Dowdell]

what do you think about Lambda and CTS reviews that do nothing but praise the cars. Each car fills a different role. For what the CTS, a luxury supercruiser with phenomonal style inside and out, and a good level of power, it does its job exceedingly well.

The bolded statement is the most important. Look at the responses just on C&G much less Autoblog or Edmunds to the Malibu, CTS, GMT-900 and Lambda reviews.

Doesn't have Nav

Doesn't out accelerate the 3-series

Can't compete with the 5-series because it's priced less <wtf?>

GM used pushrods

They don't have a 6-speed yet

Isn't a mid-sized SUV

It's too heavy

Isn't a minivan

These new cars are some of the stars of GM's lineup and are at or biting the heals of the top in their respective classes.... yet all we hear is bitching about how tiny things that will NEVER effect sales are signs of "what is so wrong at GM" and have expectations set on them that aren't set on the competition.

[turbo200]

The bolded statement is the most important. Look at the responses just on C&G much less Autoblog or Edmunds to the Malibu, CTS, GMT-900 and Lambda reviews.

Doesn't have Nav

Doesn't out accelerate the 3-series

Can't compete with the 5-series because it's priced less <wtf?>

GM used pushrods

They don't have a 6-speed yet

Isn't a mid-sized SUV

It's too heavy

Isn't a minivan

These new cars are some of the stars of GM's lineup and are at or biting the heals of the top in their respective classes.... yet all we hear is bitching about how tiny things that will NEVER effect sales are signs of "what is so wrong at GM" and have expectations set on them that aren't set on the competition.

How do I do this so you understand some of these complaints are completely true and valid, some of these complaints reflect my point about the lack of good cars in GM's stable, and some complaints are downright silly?

The reason my statement which you bolded is so important is because I am meaning to say you have to look at each individual car and see how it does its job well or not as well. We can't hope for Lambda to be a sporty Murano competitor because it's too big for that, but in the case of the Mazda CX-9, they pulled off an SUV much like the Lambdas only with better handling and a sportier bent that ultimately is winning the media over. And usually the media likes cars that are fun to drive, you know since that is why in many cases they got into writing about cars in the first place, they like to drive. Much the same is happening with the CTS--people want this car to be something it's not. That's why it's an intermediary car for me--it sets its own rules, and focuses on its own virtues.

For me, I see the CTS right in the cusp of everyone [in its class]. It's picking buyers away with a focus on peformance, style, luxury, features content, brand status. It'll be interesting to see where they take the next generation of cars, as this will ultimately determine if the Cadillac brand can become a full line of successful cars like a BMW or MB, or more of a one-hit wonder like an Acura or an Infiniti.