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NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

Cadillac confirmed for Australia in 2008

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Cadillac confirmed for Australia

Toby Hagon, drive.com.au, 03/12/07

After almost 40 years the Cadillac brand will again be sold Down Under, reports TOBY HAGON.

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Holden has confirmed the Cadillac brand will be sold in Australia in 2008.

The return of Cadillac after nearly 40 years confirms one of Holden’s worst kept secrets, signalling the arrival of yet another luxury brand to a market segment dominated by Mercedes-Benz and BMW and, to a lesser extent, Lexus and Audi.

Hosting an end-of-year lunch for the media in Melbourne today, Holden chairman and managing director Chris Gubbey said the quintessentially American Cadillac luxury brand will go on sale in Australia for the first time since 1969.

"With cutting-edge design, serious performance and luxury appointments, Cadillac will appeal to Australian prestige car buyers and quickly establish itself in a segment traditionally dominated by European brands," says Gubbey.

"Cadillac is undergoing a brand renaissance and global expansion driven by dramatic design and technical innovation."

Cadillac will launch locally in the fourth quarter of 2008 with its CTS model that's powered by a 227kW 3.6-litre V6. It's based on the Holden Commodore's Alloytec V6, albeit with added efficiency due to a more advanced direct-injection system that boosts power and reduces fuel consumption.

A 2.9-litre V6 turbo diesel will become an alternative engine choice for the sedan in 2009, and is also rumoured to be in the pipeline for the Commodore.

All CTS models will feature a six-speed automatic transmission, with stability control, front/side/curtain airbags, and iPod compatibiliity also standard.

Buyers will be offered the choice of two sporty suspension packages, and a 40GB hard drive and keyless start system are among the options.

In trying to establish a niche within the Australian market, Cadillac will play on its bold, angular styling and American heritage as well as a value-for-money pitch against rival European makers.

Holden says it wants the Cadillac CTS to take on BMW's 3-Series and Audi's A4 - specifically the 335i and A4 3.2 models.

Cadillac will provide increased competition for other luxury brands, too, including Jaguar and even General Motors' European luxury brand, Saab.

As Lexus is to Toyota, Cadillac would effectively be the luxury arm to Holden, allowing the company to push beyond its $80,000-odd price limit today.

The Cadillac CTS could be priced from an estimated $70,000 to $80,000. Priced against the likes of the BMW 3-Series, the CTS is closer in size to the BMW 5-Series, which is more expensive.

Cadillac will also offer more in the way of engine performance compared with similarly priced European rivals.

Cadillac is expected to seek modest sales ambitions, in much the same way as the General Motors-owned Hummer brand is filling a niche rather than upending the 4WD market. Holden will set up about 15 Cadillac dealers through its GM Premium Brands division that also includes Hummer and Saab.

Other Cadillacs that could eventually arrive in Australia include a high-performance convertible, larger sedans and a four-wheel-drive.

Holden and has been evaluating the importation of Cadillacs for years but has been hamstrung by a lack of availability of vehicles with the steering wheel on the right-hand side.

Like many American brands, smaller volume right-hand-drive markets such as Australia have been largely ignored as car makers expand their model line-ups for local markets.

But efforts in recent years to target smaller markets and take brands such as Cadillac global have ensured car makers are working on developing vehicles with a global market in mind.

Despite confirmation from Cadillac sources in the United States that the brand was confirmed for Australia, Holden has for years maintained that the business case for bringing Cadillac to Australia was not confirmed.

However, Drive learnt earlier in 2007 that selected Holden dealers toured Cadillac dealerships with a view to opening their own Cadillac division.

Gubbey’s announcement today will finally put luxury car rivals on notice that yet another brand will enter a highly competitive market segment where brand values are arguably more important than ever.

In a small way Holden know-how helped shape the Cadillac CTS that will be sold in Australia; former Holden design boss Michael Simcoe helped smooth the lines of the new CTS that was unveiled at the beginning of 2007.

Holden has also been rumoured to be playing a role in the development of a V12 engine for a flagship Cadillac of the future.

While denials have been made about Holden’s involvement in a V12 Cadillac program, rumours about such a vehicle – and potentially some Holden input – refuse to go away.

The rumours suggest two V6 engines could be mated to form a potent V12 for a flagship Cadillac.

source:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...p;pg=2&vf=0

Edited by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY
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Looks the goods. Should complement the Hummers and Saabs well in the GM Premium showrooms but likely to be low volume, especially at that price ($70-80k??? tell 'em they're dreamin').

Anyone driven the DI HFV6? Is it any smoother than the standard engine?

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Looks the goods. Should complement the Hummers and Saabs well in the GM Premium showrooms but likely to be low volume, especially at that price ($70-80k??? tell 'em they're dreamin').

Pairing Cadillac and Saab would be interesting in Europe as well. IIRC they're doing it in the UK.
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In a small way Holden know-how helped shape the Cadillac CTS that will be sold in Australia; former Holden design boss Michael Simcoe helped smooth the lines of the new CTS that was unveiled at the beginning of 2007.

PCS must be thrilled to know that Holden had a helping hand in his future Cadillac... :AH-HA_wink:
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I think, if marketed right, Caddy will do nicely here. There is still some affection for the brand and it'll sell cars just on the brand name alone.

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Cadillac will launch locally in the fourth quarter of 2008 with its CTS model that's powered by a 227kW 3.6-litre V6. It's based on the Holden Commodore's Alloytec V6, albeit with added efficiency due to a more advanced direct-injection system that boosts power and reduces fuel consumption.

Yeah, you wish Crocodile Dundee. :pokeowned:

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$80k is Australian dollars

They need a V12, but I don't see why they can't develop that here, Cadillac should develop the V12, not Holden. 7.2 liter it too big I think, they should go in the 5.5 to 6.0 liter range. They could make a ton of power with that. And hopefully the car it goes in isn't bigger than a DTS and no fun to drive.

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>>"7.2 liter it too big I think"<<

Too big how? Sounds too big?

You're always about hard numbers in order to 'compete': more gears, more HP, more TRQ... why not more CI?

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>>"7.2 liter it too big I think"<<

Too big how? Sounds too big?

You're always about hard numbers in order to 'compete': more gears, more HP, more TRQ... why not more CI?

nearly every number he ever posts he pulls directly from his ass.

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>>"7.2 liter it too big I think"<<

Too big how? Sounds too big?

You're always about hard numbers in order to 'compete': more gears, more HP, more TRQ... why not more CI?

7.2 liters will use a lot of gas. Poor gas mileage hurts image, (Hummer sales down 30% in November, Toyota up again) and they have to factor in CAFE, etc. Mercedes uses a 5.5 liter, Audi and BMW a 6.0 liter 12 cylinder, I think they should look to that size.

The Solstice GXP is 2 liters and 260 hp, 100 hp per liter is not that hard (especially on an expensive engine like this) a 5.6 to 6.0 liter V12 could easily make over 600 hp, which is probably more power than usable. The V12 is more about smoothness and sound and status anyway.

Edited by smk4565
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I doubt we will see V12 any time soon from GM. New dts/sts should be here around 2012..that's 5 years from now.Who knows what can happen until then. And future ultra v8 should be able to deliver around 600 HP with forced induction so there is no reason to bring v12 if it will have much lower HP number unless n.g dts/sts will go against top model of mercedes s and bmw .But that doesn't mean just more power and smoothness from v12 engine.It also mean more luxurious equipment etc.

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I doubt we will see V12 any time soon from GM. New dts/sts should be here around 2012..that's 5 years from now.Who knows what can happen until then. And future ultra v8 should be able to deliver around 600 HP with forced induction so there is no reason to bring v12 if it will have much lower HP number unless n.g dts/sts will go against top model of mercedes s and bmw .But that doesn't mean just more power and smoothness from v12 engine.It also mean more luxurious equipment etc.

The reason for a V12 is as a status symbol. Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW and Audi all have a V12 or W12 engine. Elite brands have V12s. If Cadillac does a turbo or supercharged Ultra V8 hybrid combo they can get with where Jaguar and Lexus are, they could at least be a player in the $75-100k segment.

Cadillac first needs a car better than anything GM has ever built for that engine, and the DTS/STS replacement will no doubt be a large, soft riding, $45-59k car to "keep the loyalists." If they ever decide to make a true 5-series competitor, a small V12 could be used to go against the M5, but really they need and S-class or Bentley Continental GT kind of car.

I doubt we see a V12 also, I wish we would, but I think they'll just go with the Ultra V8 and slap a turbo on it. I don't know what is taking the Ultra V8 so long either, the Northstar gets out powered by V6s now, Caddy needs a new engine.

Edited by smk4565
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And with the cost of gas being what it is, it would be unwise at this moment for Cadillac to come out with a ultra lux vehicle. They need to develop their lineup from the bottom up, and then, if the lineup is successful and sales increase incrementally, they can bring up a S-class sized car with a V-12 at the top as a low volume ultra lux sedan.

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The reason for a V12 is as a status symbol. Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW and Audi all have a V12 or W12 engine. Elite brands have V12s. If Cadillac does a turbo or supercharged Ultra V8 hybrid combo they can get with where Jaguar and Lexus are, they could at least be a player in the $75-100k segment.

...

You forgot Volkswagen...

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And with the cost of gas being what it is, it would be unwise at this moment for Cadillac to come out with a ultra lux vehicle. They need to develop their lineup from the bottom up, and then, if the lineup is successful and sales increase incrementally, they can bring up a S-class sized car with a V-12 at the top as a low volume ultra lux sedan.

An S-class fighter is needed sooner rather than later for the import intenders, otherwise negative perception towards Cadillac brand premium will fester. Also VW uses a W-12, not a V-12 for clarification.

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They don't need any v12 for m5 competitor..V12 will only make car heavier. V8 will be sufficient.

Maybe not, the M3's 4 liter V8 is lighter weight than the 3 liter inline six that it replaced. It is possible to build a DOHC V12 that doesn't weight anything more than the Northstar does now, the Northstar is a heavy engine. The M5 is going to a twin turbo V10, tough for a V8 to go against that. Although Cadillac isn't a $100k car brand, and has more problems to fix that a V12 can solve, as cool as it would be to see a V12 Cadillac, I think GM's bean counters will stop it.

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Maybe not, the M3's 4 liter V8 is lighter weight than the 3 liter inline six that it replaced. It is possible to build a DOHC V12 that doesn't weight anything more than the Northstar does now, the Northstar is a heavy engine. The M5 is going to a twin turbo V10, tough for a V8 to go against that. Although Cadillac isn't a $100k car brand, and has more problems to fix that a V12 can solve, as cool as it would be to see a V12 Cadillac, I think GM's bean counters will stop it.

Cadillac already did that. The Cien had a 7.5 litre V12 with 750HP that fit in the same space as the current Northstar.

Cadillac Cien's 7.5-litre, V12 powerplant, which is visible through a clear window in the decklid, is a new concept engine from GM Powertrain named the Northstar XV12. The all-aluminum, dual overhead cam (DOHC) four-valve V12 engine generates 750 horsepower and 450 lb.-ft. of torque, yet it meets the packaging requirements and fuel economy standards of a V8.

The Northstar XV12 concept engine features several technological advancements over today's V8 engines, including: GM's Displacement on Demand technology, which allows the engine to run seamlessly on six cylinders at times to maximize fuel savings; direct injection gasoline combustion system for increased engine power, improved fuel economy and reduced emissions; and a combined starter generator.

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I don't think you can build a luxury brand bottom up, that is what Acura has tried to do and failed. Lexus started at the top in the late 80s and said we are going to make a car better than the Mercedes S-class. Then they worked down of that and look where they are now, it only took them 12 years to become #1 in the US market, Cadillac had an 88 year head start and is now chasing them with their bottom up strategy.

They need a car better than the S-class even id GM loses money on it, they lose money on half what they build anyway, at least a premium car can boost the image. Other luxury brands have iconic cars that create an image, Lexus LS that parks itself for example. People associate Cadillac with grandpa's Deville. The Deville has to die and a flagship needs to arrive to fix the image.

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it only took them 12 years to become #1 in the US market

:rolleyes: by selling tarted up Camry De Luxes and Camry X De Luxes

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Cadillac already did that. The Cien had a 7.5 litre V12 with 750HP that fit in the same space as the current Northstar.

I am aware of the Cien, yet another car that should have been put into production. That concept was 2002, and they still don't have anything better than the Northstar V8. BMW's lightweight V8 is actually on the market, while GM is "building a business case." Over 7 liters isn't needed though, almost all other V12s are near 6.0 liters. Europe taxes on displacement, so I am not sure if that factors into that or not. I think above 4 liters or so the tax is the same.

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>>"M3's 4 liter V8 is lighter weight than the 3 liter inline six that it replaced."<<

V-type engines are always lighter than inlines of the same displacement/ cylinder count/ material -- this is the physicality of the configuration, not some new jaw-dropping, Black Forest technology.

>>"It is possible to build a DOHC V12 that doesn't weight anything more than the Northstar does now, the Northstar is a heavy engine."<<

This is new- what's a Northstar weigh? Compared to what is it heavy? Another smk hunch here?

>>"Lexus ... worked down of that and look where they are now, it only took them 12 years to become #1 in the US market"<<

lexus is primarily a truck brand- the majority of their sales success was due to riding the wave of SUV popularity. Their cars typically sell in very low numbers.

>>"Over 7 liters isn't needed though, almost all other V12s are near 6.0 liters. "<<

B-but this is where a guy like you sould really sink his teeth into a Cadillac; more = betterer. Why merely 'equal' another make's 6.0 liters when you can get 7.2L instead? After all, it's 'creating an image', one-upping the s-class, right?

>>"7.2 liters will use a lot of gas."<<

>>"The M5 is going to a twin turbo V10, tough for a V8 to go against that."<<

Pick 1 fight at a time, please- do you want power or mileage?

Turbos effectively add displacement to an engine; more air requires more fuel to maintain proper ratios. What kind of heinous gas sucking do you think a TWIN TURBO V-10 is going to do? Do you not know that larger displacements have to do less work to maintain the same level of performance, not to mention less stress & wear on the engine. A larger displacement engine will get better mileage than a smaller one that has to work harder to give the same returns. A twin-turbo engine will use even more.

It's fine if you say 'it's an expensive car- the buyer is not going to have MPG high on his list'. Articles seldom if ever mention MPG in pieces on rolls or ferrari. And you are advocating an iconic, high-price car here. But to turn around & knock an engine that hasn't even been built yet because you happen to think the displacement equates to too much fuel burned is nuts, man.

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They can get enough power from a 5.6 to 6.0 liter V12 and probably get it to fit inside more cars.

My car is a 4.0 liter V8, I get far worse mileage than my mom's 2.0 liter turbo 4, or the 2.3 liter turbo 4 in the Saab she used to have, and that Saab made the same hp and torque as my car. Personally I wouldn't get a 4 cylinder because of noise/vibration issues, but smaller displacement with a turbo or supercharger can make power and get good mileage. The 535i has 2 turbos and gets the same gas mileage as the CTS with no turbos. They can get just as much power as the competition, and beat them in gas mileage if they use a similar size engine. Achieving efficiency with power is better than making a huge engine.

The Lexus LS600h (which barely gets better mileage than the non hybrid) has sold over 6,000 world wide July through October, they only expected to sell 2,000 a year. It is selling because of an image, whether real or perceived, of fuel efficiency, power, and technological advancement.

A Northstar is 506 pounds, the M3 V8 is 445 pounds, and I found the 5.7 liter LS1 from the Vette was 458 pounds. The Northstar is heavy, and long as well.

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