GM @ NAIAS '08: Cadillac CTS Coupe Concept

[Robert Hall]

You're like a f@#king broken record.

The Mercedes coupe you're talking about is $50k+.

True, he's hopeless...but the CTS coupe will probably be $40k+, so it's not exactly bargain basement..

[bowtie_dude]

True, he's hopeless...but the CTS coupe will probably be $40k+, so it's not exactly bargain basement..

Why would it be THAT much more expensive than the sedan? The coupe shouldn't be more than $36-37k

Edited January 15, 2008 by bowtie_dude

[Robert Hall]

Why would it be THAT much more expensive than the sedan? The coupe should be more than $36-37k

Well, a loaded sedan is about $45k, so the coupe will probably top out close to $50k... the base will probably be under $40k, though.

[bowtie_dude]

Well, a loaded sedan is about $45k, so the coupe will probably top out close to $50k... the base will probably be under $40k, though.

Yeah. I, too, think a pillarless coupe looks better, but when the cheapest coupe without a b-pillar is nearly $50k, despite being pretty much an E-Classe coupe, I figure there's a reason for that.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah. I, too, think a pillarless coupe looks better, but when the cheapest coupe without a b-pillar is nearly $50k, despite being pretty much an E-Classe coupe, I figure there's a reason for that.

YEah..I'm looking forward to seeing if they do a convertible version...

[bowtie_dude]

YEah..I'm looking forward to seeing if they do a convertible version...

[Satty]

That car is hot. The production version (with b-pillar) will be hot as well. Just ditch the yellow seats (WTF were they thinking?) and it'll be fine.

A side note, GM isn't in business to produce cars for people who will never be able to afford them. Its just not practical. There is nobody sitting in a room right now thinking, "Gee, this new Cadillac I am working on really needs to be exactly what a 26 year old who makes $19,000/year really wants to buy!" Keep in mind, the last time he bought a car for more than $800, it was an Infiniti, so GM isn't hurting at all.

I just noticed. its called the CTS Coupe, why not CTC? Either way, its a winner, the only crappy part is that, in typical GM fashion, it'll be a while before they have a production version in showrooms.

[David]

Maybe they can get the DI 3.6 to 335 hp for this... I love the design..the only thing I would change would be to use regular door handles.

Moltar, you need to go suck on your regular door handles. It is time for GM to move all their auto's to door handles like this. No need for something that sticks out, bangs on other cars and takes away from a sleek smooth surface. Door Handles is as out of date as Tye Dye shirts and the 60's! Other than that, you Rock! :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

Easy guys, we don't even know if it will reach production yet. Let alone whether or not it will have a B pillar.

[Robert Hall]

The CTS coupe makes my daily driver decision more difficult...I was thinking of getting a new CTS sedan in the next year or so..now I'm thinking of waiting until June 2010 (if the coupe is available then). Either way, a CTS would be a great turning-40 (June 2010) car for me.. (the Grand Cherokee was my turning-30 purchase).

[NOS2006]

A side note, GM isn't in business to produce cars for people who will never be able to afford them. Its just not practical. There is nobody sitting in a room right now thinking, "Gee, this new Cadillac I am working on really needs to be exactly what a 26 year old who makes $19,000/year really wants to buy!" Keep in mind, the last time he bought a car for more than $800, it was an Infiniti, so GM isn't hurting at all.

QFT

[Drew Dowdell]

A 2 door STS would be like a Monte Carlo, people don't want huge coupes.

I was wondering how long the CTC is and what the wheelbase is. I am hoping it is shorter than the 4 door version, it looks like it is. I hope the doors aren't super long like the Monte Carlo.

then why do BMW <6-series>, Mercedes <CLK> even bother?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Holy &#036;h&#33;....

My jaw is on the floor.

Easily the hottest GM product (design-wise) to come out under Lutz...

I take back all those "Buick being better than Cadillac" comments, for the moment.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat!

[NOS2006]

then why do BMW <6-series>, Mercedes <CLK> even bother?

Well the RS6 isn't even considered a benchmark for anything, even with its 580 HP... consider that!

:AH-HA_wink:

[Satty]

The CLK starts around $46k, the 3er Coupe from about $35k, the 6er from $75k and the A5 (does anybody remember thats coming out soon?) starts just under $40k according to Edmunds. Would anyone pick ANY of those over a production version of the CTS Coupe? I like the A5 a lot, and I love the 6er, but I could never see myself picking either of those over the CTS Coupe, b-pillar or no b-pillar.

[turbo200]

The CLK starts around $46k, the 3er Coupe from about $35k, the 6er from $75k and the A5 (does anybody remember thats coming out soon?) starts just under $40k according to Edmunds. Would anyone pick ANY of those over a production version of the CTS Coupe? I like the A5 a lot, and I love the 6er, but I could never see myself picking either of those over the CTS Coupe, b-pillar or no b-pillar.

the CT coupe would be my choice. Of course the 335i would be fighting a hard battle. For me it would come down to size [nothing bigger than 335i at least from the outside, it's almost too big for me], interior ergonomics/feel/quality, and overall performance. But I LOVE the 335, it's one of my favorite cars on the road. The 335 has perfect seats, and a perfect interior design, imo, I think it's classic, classy, and very sportsman. The killer seats [with killer orange/red color combo], clutch, and butter shifter that feels right and is clearly in the right position seal the deal for me. so it's saying a lot about the Caddy that it ranks as high against the 3-series, just based on looks and what I know abuot the CTS

The Cadillac's style on the outside would have it all over any other coupe, though, and would really be a big deciding factor. It remains to be seen how much of that translates to production [i'm sure most of it will]

Edited January 15, 2008 by turbo200

[Camino LS6]

I wouldn't spend the money on any of them.

[bowtie_dude]

The CLK starts around $46k, the 3er Coupe from about $35k, the 6er from $75k and the A5 (does anybody remember thats coming out soon?) starts just under $40k according to Edmunds. Would anyone pick ANY of those over a production version of the CTS Coupe? I like the A5 a lot, and I love the 6er, but I could never see myself picking either of those over the CTS Coupe, b-pillar or no b-pillar.

The 3er coupe has a b-pillar and so does the 6er.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Hear that sound? That's the sound of my jaw hitting the floor.

Only the re-introduction of the Camaro made me make that sound.

[CaddyRich]

An Open Letter to Ed Welburn and The People at GM Styling:

This car is absolutely beautiful. You've done one hell of a job.

Sincerely,

CaddyRich

[smk4565]

then why do BMW <6-series>, Mercedes <CLK> even bother?

I said people don't want big coupes (like the Monte Carlo) that are STS size. Those coupes are smaller, a 6-series is 190 inches long, the CLK is 183 inches long, much smaller than any Cadillac. The CTS coupe is 187.4 inches long.

[Nick]

A good example of a low volume, large 2-door would be the CL. It's a nice car, but being MB's top end model, it is obviously not a high volume seller.

[SAmadei]

A 2 door STS would be like a Monte Carlo, people don't want huge coupes.

I was wondering how long the CTC is and what the wheelbase is. I am hoping it is shorter than the 4 door version, it looks like it is. I hope the doors aren't super long like the Monte Carlo.

I do. Yeah, it sucks to get out of the car in a tight parking space... but it beats being 6'4 and 375 and looking like an idiot trying to squeeze into a 4 door Grand Prix.

In your average 4 door, I have the seat as far back as it will go, tilted back, so when I look out the left side of the car, I look out the rear window. When I open the door, I can't retract my leg far enough (without hitting the steering wheel) to clear the front of the door jam. And alot of these damn 4 door car hinges like to not stay open... and so while I'm trying to climb out of the jungle gym, I got the door slamming on me. That's how I normally end up putting the front of my foot through the speaker grille.

Granted, large coupes may be a niche market (So is the Solstice/Sky market)... but they used to be a huge market. Did people really change that much?

Or are today's cars styled so badly that a big coupe looks like crap. That's what, IMHO, happened to the Monte Carlo. Its boring. If your going to drive an appliance, you might as well get the 4 door.

People who look at the big coupe Mercedes and BMW and drool. Why can't GM build something bad ass like that?

OTOH, what about 6 doors? If 4 are good, are 6 better? I don't see that market niche being explored.

[smk4565]

The CL550 is 199 inches long, aside from a Bentley/Rolls car it is the biggest coupe, but with a $105,000 base price they aren't selling many.

The largest BMW coupe is smaller than the CTS, likewise with Audi or Lexus or Infiniti. Big 2 door cars are a thing of the past. The days of Rivieras, Mark VIIIs, Monte Carlos are over. The 2000-2005 Monte Carlo was longer than a BMW 750i. It isn't just in 2 door cars, people aren't buying big sedans like the Crown Vic anymore either, people gravitate toward midsize.

The CTS coupe is 4 inches shorter than the sedan, that is a a good thing. Looks like a hatchback, that is a bad thing.

[Z-06]

The largest BMW coupe is smaller than the CTS, likewise with Audi or Lexus or Infiniti. Big 2 door cars are a thing of the past. The days of Rivieras, Mark VIIIs, Monte Carlos are over. The 2000-2005 Monte Carlo was longer than a BMW 750i. It isn't just in 2 door cars, people aren't buying big sedans like the Crown Vic anymore either, people gravitate toward midsize.

Have you thought this way that people are gravitating to midsize because:

1. Those big sedans still in production are utter pieces of junk.

2. They have not been advanced technologically to make viable sense.

3. Some are forced to downgrade because of the lack of choices in that category.

[ToniCipriani]

OTOH, what about 6 doors? If 4 are good, are 6 better? I don't see that market niche being explored.

It had been. They're called limousines.

[turbo200]

Granted, large coupes may be a niche market (So is the Solstice/Sky market)... but they used to be a huge market. Did people really change that much?

Or are today's cars styled so badly that a big coupe looks like crap. That's what, IMHO, happened to the Monte Carlo. Its boring. If your going to drive an appliance, you might as well get the 4 door.

I agree. There is a market for big coupes styled right. There are plenty of bigger men, that want something stylish, perhaps empty nesters, maybe younger guys, and cars like the MB CL and 6-series are completely out of thier reach. The problem is automakers seem to think there isn't much of a market, except for Dodge with the Challenger, that should be right up your alley. I think thier research shows there's enough people like you, and that they increasingly are turning to SUVs. But a cool Chevelle or GTO or Velite.....is really still needed, in my book. And one size larger ST coupe would be nice.

EDIT: the other issue is establishing how big is too big. I think the 6-series and Mustang are just a couple inches shorter than what ideally we are talking about.

Edited January 16, 2008 by turbo200

[sciguy_0504]

Not really digging the rear or the overall shape. It just looks kind of weird to me.

[Drew Dowdell]

The CL550 is 199 inches long, aside from a Bentley/Rolls car it is the biggest coupe, but with a $105,000 base price they aren't selling many.

The largest BMW coupe is smaller than the CTS, likewise with Audi or Lexus or Infiniti. Big 2 door cars are a thing of the past. The days of Rivieras, Mark VIIIs, Monte Carlos are over. The 2000-2005 Monte Carlo was longer than a BMW 750i. It isn't just in 2 door cars, people aren't buying big sedans like the Crown Vic anymore either, people gravitate toward midsize.

The CTS coupe is 4 inches shorter than the sedan, that is a a good thing. Looks like a hatchback, that is a bad thing.

The Monte Carlo was also an awkwardly proportioned front driver on a platform that made the car qualified for antique plates the moment it rolled off the line. I wouldn't use it as a valid comparison. The Eldorado hadn't been updated significantly since it's early 90's intro. The Mark VIII was riding on a platform eclipsed in age only by the Panther. It's not that buyers left the full size coupe market... it's that the full size coupe market left the buyers.

[smk4565]

Have you thought this way that people are gravitating to midsize because:

1. Those big sedans still in production are utter pieces of junk.

2. They have not been advanced technologically to make viable sense.

3. Some are forced to downgrade because of the lack of choices in that category.

If big sedans were high in demand, auto makers would update them every 5 years, not every 10-16 years like the Ford Panther platform.

Buying a smaller car isn't down grading, there are a lot of small to midsize cars that are nice and much more expensive than a $23,000 Impala or $26,000 Crown Vic before rebate. Big coupes are in even less demand, I suspect the Challenger will flop because of this and high gas prices.

[Robert Hall]

. The Mark VIII was riding on a platform eclipsed in age only by the Panther. It's not that buyers left the full size coupe market... it's that the full size coupe market left the buyers.

!Invalid. The Mark VIII's FN-10 platform was based on the '89 MN-12 Thunderbird/Cougar platform. It's predecessor, the Mark VII, however, was based on the Fox platform which dated to '78.

Edited January 17, 2008 by moltar

[cletus8269]

If big sedans were high in demand, auto makers would update them every 5 years, not every 10-16 years like the Ford Panther platform.

Buying a smaller car isn't down grading, there are a lot of small to midsize cars that are nice and much more expensive than a $23,000 Impala or $26,000 Crown Vic before rebate. Big coupes are in even less demand, I suspect the Challenger will flop because of this and high gas prices.

suspect away cause last time they were on ebay motors you couldnt get one for under 45 grand. in fact 6500+ orders were put in the day orders were available meaning theres going to be some empty hands.

Edited January 17, 2008 by cletus8269

[Drew Dowdell]

!Invalid. The Mark VIII's FN-10 platform was based on the '89 MN-12 Thunderbird/Cougar platform. It's predecessor, the Mark VII, however, was based on the Fox platform which dated to '78.

woops! I thought it was still fox based at that point.

[Camino LS6]

The Monte Carlo was also an awkwardly proportioned front driver on a platform that made the car qualified for antique plates the moment it rolled off the line. I wouldn't use it as a valid comparison. The Eldorado hadn't been updated significantly since it's early 90's intro. The Mark VIII was riding on a platform eclipsed in age only by the Panther. It's not that buyers left the full size coupe market... it's that the full size coupe market left the buyers.

Very true.

I love coupes and have no problem with long doors - it's called style.

I hate sedans and can't wait for the sun to set on their over-dominance in the market.

Sedans are boring.

[Robert Hall]

Very true.

I love coupes and have no problem with long doors - it's called style.

I hate sedans and can't wait for the sun to set on their over-dominance in the market.

Sedans are boring.

I like coupes, but prefer the practicality of 4drs for carrying people, and for getting in and out in tight parking spaces....getting out of a long doored coupe is a PITA in narrow parking garage spaces (I'm always parking in garages, so this is a common use case for me). Not to mention 4drs have better side impact protection.

I'll probably always have a 4dr something for a daily driver and coupes or convertibles for my fun cars...currently, I have 1 4dr SUV, 1 BMW coupe, 2 vintage Mustang coupes..probably will change by 2010 to a 4dr sports sedan (quite possibly a CTS) daily driver, SUV for winter, and maybe a convertible replacing the BMW..

hopefully all in one place, though...my current arrangement (the Jeep and BMW here in Denver, the Mustangs 1300 miles away) is awkward at best.

Edited January 17, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Very true.

I love coupes and have no problem with long doors - it's called style.

I hate sedans and can't wait for the sun to set on their over-dominance in the market.

Sedans are boring.

I never noticed this about the Monte Carlo until recently. The wheel openings are different sizes.... ok, not terrible... but it's the FRONT wheel openings are that are larger!

[MrObsessive]

I do. Yeah, it sucks to get out of the car in a tight parking space... but it beats being 6'4 and 375 and looking like an idiot trying to squeeze into a 4 door Grand Prix.

In your average 4 door, I have the seat as far back as it will go, tilted back, so when I look out the left side of the car, I look out the rear window. When I open the door, I can't retract my leg far enough (without hitting the steering wheel) to clear the front of the door jam. And alot of these damn 4 door car hinges like to not stay open... and so while I'm trying to climb out of the jungle gym, I got the door slamming on me. That's how I normally end up putting the front of my foot through the speaker grille.

Granted, large coupes may be a niche market (So is the Solstice/Sky market)... but they used to be a huge market. Did people really change that much?

Or are today's cars styled so badly that a big coupe looks like crap. That's what, IMHO, happened to the Monte Carlo. Its boring. If your going to drive an appliance, you might as well get the 4 door.

People who look at the big coupe Mercedes and BMW and drool. Why can't GM build something bad ass like that?

OTOH, what about 6 doors? If 4 are good, are 6 better? I don't see that market niche being explored.

Amen Brother!

It's the very reason I refuse to buy a 4 door car today. The gymnastics someone our size has to do to get in and out is waaaaaaaaay too annoying. Throw in the vision blocking way too thick B pillars....and driving itself becomes torture!.

I struck kind of a compromise when I bought my Saturn coupe.............semi 4 door, but the front doors are long enough where the rear door pillar isn't blocking my peripheral vision.

Edited January 17, 2008 by MrObsessive

[cletus8269]

I like coupes, but prefer the practicality of 4drs for carrying people, and for getting in and out in tight parking spaces....getting out of a long doored coupe is a PITA in narrow parking garage spaces (I'm always parking in garages, so this is a common use case for me). Not to mention 4drs have better side impact protection.

egress and ingress was supposedly why dodge went with the 4 dr charger. like you say its just easier to open your own door and get in than for someone to open a door lean a seat forward and you stoop into the back seat. they could have offered limited run 2drs at a premium price to offset the cost but its cheaper to make one body style. we had an 86 monte carlo... those were heavy doors and trust me you best get your feet in before the passenger or driver shuts the door on anything hanging out, from experience it hurts. with the materials auto makers have now long heavy doors shouldnt be a problem to weigh in... just long doors. i would love to see a 2 door impy sport coupe on the streets... b pillar or no it dont matter to me.

[2000GPGT]

Inside Line is reporting that this car will produced in 2009 as a 2010 model. Great, my lease is up on my import and it's time to jump back into a GM!!!!!!

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124413