More Zeta : Crewman Ute as GMC

[91z4me]

Means nothing where it's located, as a matter of fact it's incorporated in Delaware, also means nothing. What matters is, where is the power base? Now that's the question?

What I think PCS is getting at is that GM is a worldwide company. GM Brazil utilizes a LOT of Opel models so I think GM Opel has more influence than GM NA.

[Oracle of Delphi]

What I think PCS is getting at is that GM is a worldwide company. GM Brazil utilizes a LOT of Opel models so I think GM Opel has more influence than GM NA.

Ahhh, how refreshing, someone who gets it. But it's GM Europe, not GM Opel. :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

What I think PCS is getting at is that GM is a worldwide company. GM Brazil utilizes a LOT of Opel models so I think GM Opel has more influence than GM NA.

No way.

The North American market is still the largest in the world.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No way.

The North American market is still the largest in the world.

Not by much, Europe is poised to take that crown this year! :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

Not by much, Europe is poised to take that crown this year! :AH-HA_wink:

And you at GME plan to make the fatal mistake that the US will accept the same portfolio.

We will not.

[Camino LS6]

All of that aside, a GMC Crewman is a perfect product for the times.

[Oracle of Delphi]

And you at GME plan to make the fatal mistake that the US will accept the same portfolio.

We will not.

Me? I'm innocent I tell you. Pure as fresh fallen snow. :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

the yellow kind...

[silverss/sc]

GM is quite confusing right now to say the least . Zeta is completely imploding one day save for the Camaro , and then , on the next . Ultra V8's cancelled , but next gen p.rod and DOHC LX lives on , then all future V8 programs cancelled .

I will believe the G8 ST and a GMC crewman when I see them in the showroom . I personally think the Camaro is the only Zeta vehicle , save for the G8 ....the US will ever see .

[derrado]

Me? I'm innocent I tell you. Pure as fresh fallen snow. :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah, well, if GM Europe can supply a suitable platform/truck to ease the CAFE burden in GMC, I would LOVE to see it.

...oh wait. GM Europe doesn't make any trucks. It only makes vans (in a joint-venture with Renault-Nissan).

Point is, I don't think, even if they were all-powerful, that GM Europe would deny a useful vehicle such as a Crewman to GMNA. That is absurd. Unless they manufactured something similar, which they don't.

PCS, this is all just bizarre innuendo.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

What I think PCS is getting at is that GM is a worldwide company. GM Brazil utilizes a LOT of Opel models so I think GM Opel has more influence than GM NA.

This post makes me wonder why I didn't see things from this perspective.

But, also, GMNA has a good amount of influence in China that wins over GME's in that particular market. Much as GME's influence wins over GMNA's in the South American market run by GM Brazil.

No way.

The North American market is still the largest in the world.

Very true.

Not by much, Europe is poised to take that crown this year!

And you at GME plan to make the fatal mistake that the US will accept the same portfolio.

We will not.

Again, very, very true.

GME already has an outlet for its portfolio with Saturn. So why push for more? If GME doesn't let a Chevrolet be a Chevrolet, a Buick be a Buick, and a Pontiac be a Pontiac, then they will be making one bad f@#king choice.

I don't care if the European market is going to overtake the North American market when it comes to sales. It doesn't mean that GME should be calling every one of the shots. (Which I don't think they could in the first place.)

One of GM's biggest goals is to be a global company, not just an American one, and make each and every one of it's singular operations work in perfect balance and harmony so it can build products that are literally "world-class" and can be adaptive to each market without much engineering headaches.

But it seems they have very far to go to achieve that goal, as it seems that the company is split into two halves, with the both of them struggling for who has the right to control the whole shindig. And I suspect that this has been a rising internal problem within GM for a few years now when it first made that said goal. And, sadly, it seems GMNA is losing control of their home market, as Congress brings about a big CAFE crunch into law, with their one last hope being China (Buick and Cadillac being GMNA's installment there) to prove their dominance.

That might just be pure speculation, however, and probably amounts to just that. But, speculation or not, I do think I can say things are not exactly rosy red within the halls of GM right now. They may have never really been, but then again, it seemed as if everything was working out better than ever before the new CAFE regs were made into law. There are internal struggles with GME versus GMNA, struggles with the enthusiasts versus the bureaucrats versus those who just straddle the fence. GM may have put their operations for making North American products back on the right track again, but, truthfully, it must solve it's internal struggles to finally make a full return to greatness once again. But this is something that probably just won't be.

Edited January 18, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Camino LS6]

Very well thought out post, YJ.

[Oracle of Delphi]

This post makes me wonder why I didn't see things from this perspective.

But, also, GMNA has a good amount of influence in China that wins over GME's in that particular market. Much as GME's influence wins over GMNA's in the South American market run by GM Brazil.

Very true.

And you at GME plan to make the fatal mistake that the US will accept the same portfolio.

We will not.

Again, very, very true.

GME already has an outlet for its portfolio with Saturn. So why push for more? If GME doesn't let a Chevrolet be a Chevrolet, a Buick be a Buick, and a Pontiac be a Pontiac, then they will be making one bad f@#king choice.

I don't care if the European market is going to overtake the North American market when it comes to sales. It doesn't mean that GME should be calling every one of the shots. (Which I don't think they could in the first place.)

One of GM's biggest goals is to be a global company, not just an American one, and make each and every one of it's singular operations work in perfect balance and harmony so it can build products that are literally "world-class" and can be adaptive to each market without much engineering headaches.

But it seems they have very far to go to achieve that goal, as it seems that the company is split into two halves, with the both of them struggling for who has the right to control the whole shindig. And I suspect that this has been a rising internal problem within GM for a few years now when it first made that said goal. And, sadly, it seems GMNA is losing control of their home market, as Congress brings about a big CAFE crunch into law, with their one last hope being China (Buick and Cadillac being GMNA's installment there) to prove their dominance.

That might just be pure speculation, however, and probably amounts to just that. But, speculation or not, I do think I can say things are not exactly rosy red within the halls of GM right now. They may have never really been, but then again, it seemed as if everything was working out better than ever before the new CAFE regs were made into law. There are internal struggles with GME versus GMNA, struggles with the enthusiasts versus the bureaucrats versus those who just straddle the fence. GM may have put their operations for making North American products back on the right track again, but, truthfully, it must solve it's internal struggles to finally make a full return to greatness once again. But this is something that probably just won't be.

All struggles have been solved, there is only one GM now! :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

When's the funeral?

[Northstar]

GME: General Motors' Extinguisher

[Guest YellowJacket894]

All struggles have been solved, there is only one GM now! :AH-HA_wink:

Und warum bezweifele ich dieses?

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Und warum bezweifele ich dieses?

With all of this GME hate,I see nobody have said anything about the beancounters .

Edited January 18, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[Guest YellowJacket894]

With all of this GME hate,I see nobody have said anything about the beancounters .

I have. See one of my earlier posts.

[Camino LS6]

Just add in Congress and the President and all of the hateworthy will have been mentioned.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Just add in Congress and the President and all of the hateworthy will have been mentioned.

[FloydHendershot]

Just add in Congress and the President and all of the hateworthy will have been mentioned.

It's always the fault of someone else. Boo f@#kin hoo. My heart is bleeding.

[Camino LS6]

It's always the fault of someone else. Boo f@#kin hoo. My heart is bleeding.

What?

That makes no sense.

Explain.

[ltm_awake]

HAH! I hope it looks something like my photoshop from the competition.

obviously not a perfect chop, but I think that would fit very well into GMC's portfolio

Edited January 18, 2008 by ltm_awake

[Micah Pie]

Keep in mind Lutz said the Design will be very far out there on the concept. Initially, a lot of people will probably hate it.

[Robert Hall]

What?

That makes no sense.

Explain.

Basically, don't blame 'them'...you have to blame the American people...they want SUVs. They want vanilla FWD sedans. Very, very few want RWD V8 models..

[Camino LS6]

It will be a crewcab, likely be AWD and sit higher, have fender flares and rocker cladding etc.

And I expect it to have an interesting name. :AH-HA_wink:

[blair1118]

I totally see an interesting name like:

GMC: Because the Ridgeline Sucks and the uplevel Because the Ridgeline Sucks Denali

[Camino LS6]

I totally see an interesting name like:

GMC: Because the Ridgeline Sucks and the uplevel Because the Ridgeline Sucks Denali

:rotflmao:

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What I think PCS is getting at is that GM is a worldwide company. GM Brazil utilizes a LOT of Opel models so I think GM Opel has more influence than GM NA.

Doesn't matter.

GMNA runs GM and GMNA plans products for GMNA.

This whole idea of different factions 'rising up and taking control of GMNA' is just stupid.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM is quite confusing right now to say the least . Zeta is completely imploding one day save for the Camaro , and then , on the next . Ultra V8's cancelled , but next gen p.rod and DOHC LX lives on , then all future V8 programs cancelled .

I will believe the G8 ST and a GMC crewman when I see them in the showroom . I personally think the Camaro is the only Zeta vehicle , save for the G8 ....the US will ever see .

GM stated that they would not develop any NEW V8 programs. The LS line is alive and well (Which makes sense as no other automaker has more than one line of V8s)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

All struggles have been solved, there is only one GM now! :AH-HA_wink:

LOL

Funny the press never interviews Forster.

I've seen a lot of Lutz and Wagoner and even HOLDEN PERSONNEL in the press as of late.

Professional jealousy is never a good trait.

[wildcat]

All struggles have been solved, there is only one GM now! :AH-HA_wink:

So does that mean TICK-TOCK! is called off?

[Oracle of Delphi]

So does that mean TICK-TOCK! is called off?

oh no, the TICK-TOCK show has just begun, Enjoy the show. :AH-HA_wink:

[wildcat]

< Danny Thomas spit-take >

[Oracle of Delphi]

< Danny Thomas spit-take >

Bibs are available in the rear of the theater!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

And I expect it to have an interesting name. :AH-HA_wink:

One that brings to mind a knight in shining armor, maybe?

[thegriffon]

Errr, I gather from the description given, it won't be a new Crewman, but more like the Rampage, Ridgeline and Avalanche. On the one hand you'd think a Lambda-based SUT would be more likely, on the other hand there is the possibility of a Zeta-based SRX replacement, spare capacity at Oshawa, the desire for a larger SUV (like the Territory) at Holden, and the act that the Lambdas are no lightweights either. So maybe Zeta evolves into rwd midsize SUVs and away from large cars.

[thegriffon]

the 355s should play on the global scale, not just here in the US.... and for that reason should be updated.. especially if they'd include the 2.9 liter diesel.

The 2.9 L is a high-speed car engine. At a stretch it could be used in larger crossover SUVs, but real trucks that use a low-range transfer case will use a 4-cylinder of similar capacity instead (either an updated version of the Isuzu-built 3.0 L, the VM-built 2.8 L or the Brazilian 2.8 L from International). The GMT-355s will be replaced. As poorly as they have done in the US small pickups remain a core product with a high volume potential globally. GM Thailand, Latin America, Africa, Australia all depend on the small pickup, with limited demand for large pickups. Isuzu and GM are working on a new LCV platform to underpin a wide range of vehicles, while GM Brazil is handling development of the GM vehicles (GMT 7xx as has been mentioned already) to succeed both the S10 and Colorado/Rodeo, the H3/H4 and the Blazer still built in Brazil. A new Asian Utility Vehicle (a light truck-based MPV) to replace the Tavera is probably on the cards as well.

Edited January 19, 2008 by thegriffon

[Camino LS6]

One that brings to mind a knight in shining armor, maybe?

Nope.

[gmcbob]

oh no, the TICK-TOCK show has just begun, Enjoy the show. :AH-HA_wink:

What exactly does the "Tick-Tock" mean anyway?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's the countdown until everything we love is gone (Pontiac, Holden and Zeta)

[Robert Hall]

It's the countdown until everything we love is gone (Pontiac, Holden and Zeta)

Yes, the countdown to oblivion...maybe PCS wants to be the new Roger Smith..return GM to a lineup of all-generic FWD mediocrity..

Edited January 20, 2008 by moltar

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yes, the countdown to oblivion...PCS must be the new Roger Smith..return GM to a lineup of all-generic FWD models..

I am only mild mannered GM employee PCS by day, but when you need someone more powerful than a supercharged Holden Barina, faster than a speeding Holden Viva, and able to leap over small Kangaroos in a single bound. I then become Holden Man, (insert Superman theme here) I stand for Truth, Justice and the Australian way! See pic below!

Edited January 20, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[ZL-1]

I am only mild mannered GM employee PCS by day, but when you need someone more powerful than a supercharged Holden Barina, faster than a speeding Holden Viva, and able to leap over small Kangaroos in a single bound. I then become Holden Man, (insert Superman theme here) I stand for Truth, Justice and the Australian way! See pic below!

:rotflmao:

[K.C.]

I am only mild mannered GM employee PCS by day, but when you need someone more powerful than a supercharged Holden Barina, faster than a speeding Holden Viva, and able to leap over small Kangaroos in a single bound. I then become Holden Man, (insert Superman theme here) I stand for Truth, Justice and the Australian way! See pic below!

That had me lawlin all over the place.

[Camino LS6]

It's the countdown until everything we love is gone (Pontiac, Holden and Zeta)

Here's hoping that those behind this course of action become intimate with bitter disappointment in the near future.

[Intrepidation]

I am only mild mannered GM employee PCS by day, but when you need someone more powerful than a supercharged Holden Barina, faster than a speeding Holden Viva, and able to leap over small Kangaroos in a single bound. I then become Holden Man, (insert Superman theme here) I stand for Truth, Justice and the Australian way! See pic below!

If you were Holden Man you'd be fighting for Holden not to kill it.

[gmcbob]

PCS - You so crazy!

Actually guys - I think there's a little bit of PCS screwing with everyone on this board because he's got a weird sense of humor. But who knows? GM does do some bone headed things periodically, like killing cars that people actually wanted (like the old F-Bodies, making Caddy fwd &#036;h&#33; boxes from the 80s through the 90s, etc, etc). I'm pretty sure the G8 and Camaro are still very much alive, and I'm pretty psyched about both of those cars. Zeta sounds like a great chassis, and if GM kills it and Pontiac in the process, then I'm basically through with wanting to see them come back to their 60s glory days. My (late) Dad worked there (Buick Motor Division - before Buick was a "brand"), and I can remember him bringing home some pretty fly company cars back in the day (big old tanks - rear drive Electras, Park Avenues, LeSabres, etc, etc). I'm sure he'd be proud of a "real" Buick Park Avenue (like the one in China of all places). One case I could see for GM not selling rwd. cars in the US could be simply because they want people to get used to them seeing the company as one that competes with Toyota and Nissan on gas mileage. Having 400 hp rear drive Pontiac's really doesn't do that, but then again, clever marketing of their good gas mileage cars should take care of that problem. From what I can see, its a crazy, competitive, difficult market nowadays, and I'm pretty sure it's hard to get everyone at GM on the same page as far as how they want to deal with the competition and the new gas mileage standards in NA. Unfortunately for them, they brought a lot of those problems on themselves, but there's ways they can get out of the mess they got themselves into. Killing good rear drive platforms isn't one of them, but hey, there's still Ford and Chrysler if GM kills their affordable rear drive cars in the US as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully the Camaro stays around for a few years, because that is more than likely going to be my next car.

On the topic at hand - I think the Ute is certainly cool, but I have this feeling that it won't sell too terribly well in the US with the way it's currently styled. It needs to have more masculine lines, especially the area that actually separates the car portion from the "truck" portion - it's very odd looking I think. If they bring it to market as a GMC and give it some true GMC styling (square off the rear window area a little bit), it would probably sell okay. Put a 400 hp LS3 in it - and I may have to check it out while I'm looking at the Camaro.

[SAmadei]

It's the countdown until everything we love is gone (Pontiac, Holden and Zeta)

And the last chance GM has at getting money out of my wallet, except for random Dealer parts for my older cars.

If this is the writing on the wall, some of those Chrysler products are looking good, but likely I will be skipping right to Mercedes.

[Camino LS6]

And the last chance GM has at getting money out of my wallet, except for random Dealer parts for my older cars.

If this is the writing on the wall, some of those Chrysler products are looking good, but likely I will be skipping right to Mercedes.

Let's hope that they come to their senses.