Challenger Unmasked

[Camino LS6]

Challenger has the advantage of a 30 year gap.

For each car's next gen,NOS.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

That's a big if....who knows what form Chrysler will exist in in five years or so..

How about a Chrysler IPO or GM buying Chrysler .

Edited January 18, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[BrewSwillis]

The Challenger is just continuing from where it left off in 1974. They can update it as they wish with future generations. The Camaro, on the other hand, had evolved stylistically, and then went back to 1967 for it's design. So, it's my argument that it's actually more retro than the Challenger.

They could easily add a bunch of sharp lines to the Challenger and make it more modern-retro just like the Camaro.....if that's even still popular in 5 years.

[NOS2006]

The Challenger is just continuing from where it left off in 1974. They can update it as they wish with future generations. The Camaro, on the other hand, had evolved stylistically, and then went back to 1967 for it's design. So, it's my argument that it's actually more retro than the Challenger.

They could easily add a bunch of sharp lines to the Challenger and make it more modern-retro just like the Camaro.....if that's even still popular in 5 years.

I could argue right back saying this Challenger was 35 years in the making, and this is all they could do. :AH-HA_wink:

[Duncan]

I don't know what I was expecting, but now that all the spy shots are out there...

...I want a Camaro.

Not that I don't love the new (old?) Challenger; I'm proud of Chrysler for pulling off another "Viper" in that the production car is almost exactly what the concept promised, and better in some ways.

But I look at the current crop of muscle cars (nice to be able to say that!) and the Camaro looks like the best-designed. Not just aesthetically, but in a technical sense as well with its global-influenced platform and uncompromised engine lineup (based on the current set of rumors). If I can get a V8 Camaro with over 300hp and a six-speed stick for around $30k, GM will have done a very good job.

As it is, Chrysler will most likely milk the "gotta-have-it" market for the next year with the Challenger, just like Ford did when the current Mustang came out. And deservedly so - they need a winner these days.

As for the previous comment about "forgotten big cars" (to paraphrase liberally), the pricing on good drivable examples of such cars at Barrett-Jackson this week doesn't seem to bear out that they will be simply locked up in museums. And keep in mind that auction pricing is always extremely inflated anyway, which means you shouldn't have to do much searching to find affordable old iron. Pick up Hemmings Motor News or Classic Car Trader sometime - there are deals out there to be had, so long as you don't mind feeding the addictions of Detroit's '70s-era "crack babies".

I wouldn't mind having a '73 Cutlass, for starters - seems to be plenty of them still around...

[loki]

Another pic from Dodge's Canadian website:

it looks like chargers chasing it....?

would it be stupid to hold off the v6's, keep the v-8 going in low numbers, then up production when the 09 engine hemis come out and srt

then the redesigned v-6s? prolly, to answer myself, but it wouldn't cheapen the car so much it seems.

[Intrepidation]

They're launching the car in top trim and limited numbers to make it special, to signify that this is the relaunching of a special car. Makes perfect sense to me. The only stupid part to me is having these special cars being automatics and not manuals.

[gm4life]

I am waiting for the Camaro, sweet ride tho.

[haypops]

Well, what about GM's Japanese, Korean, and Chinese balls?? Small cars are not profitable for American automakers, which is why they get someone else to make them for them.

Before you say anything, GM buys engines from China.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Good point about the Chinese engines. I am nervous about the whole China thing whether GM or Chrysler. Didn't Chinese workers recently hold their Korean bosses hostage?

there is so much than go wrong here at any moment.

[Mr.Krinkle]

it looks like chargers chasing it....?

Looks like some of these.

[BatmanGTO]

I still like this car, and the Mustang, but the Camaro trumps them both.

I want to see all three on a magazine cover together.

That is what i Cannot wait for it will be the best story of the century, and it has been a long time coming.

Muscle car era is back woohoo!

Edited January 23, 2008 by BatmanGTO

[Duncan]

That is what i Cannot wait for it will be the best story of the century, and it has been a long time coming.

Muscle car era is back woohoo!

Love it while you've got it, as I believe this one is gonna be very brief.

I'll be getting my Camaro as soon as possible, believe me.

[titan]

I can still honestly say I'm not a fan. The bumpers are wayyy too thick, ugly wheels, face/rear look like they're being produced 30 years too late (and they are).

With it being fully outfitted around $44k, I'd definitely take a Shelby GT500 over this.

I agree.

[CMG]

I think the production Challenger is a pretty hot looking car myself.... I'm not in the market for a 2 door anything and won't pretend with a "I would rather buy", I'm just gonna say I think it turned out very nice....

[Jazzhead]

What else can I say but - I'm in love.

[regfootball]

the mustang will still likely end up as the most affordable to buy v6 car of the 3, even after the new duratec hits it. I don't see Chevy working hard to keep the price low on the Camaro.

The Camaro probably has the best new age proportioning. It looks really grounded to its chassis and road, whereas the challenger is just another redo of the jacked up 60's look. That, and it's cabin proportion to the rest of the car is too old school as well.

We'll have to pass judgment on the Mustang until the 2010 redo as far as new model styling. The Camaro is hot. too bad it has such a crappy interior design.

The Challenger is like the Viper, it always looks like a hodge podge cobbled together.

[Intrepidation]

Please define how it's cobbled together? Everything is cleanly integrated and looks well assembled in the photos.

[Duncan]

the mustang will still likely end up as the most affordable to buy v6 car of the 3, even after the new duratec hits it. I don't see Chevy working hard to keep the price low on the Camaro.

The Camaro probably has the best new age proportioning. It looks really grounded to its chassis and road, whereas the challenger is just another redo of the jacked up 60's look. That, and it's cabin proportion to the rest of the car is too old school as well.

We'll have to pass judgment on the Mustang until the 2010 redo as far as new model styling. The Camaro is hot. too bad it has such a crappy interior design.

The Challenger is like the Viper, it always looks like a hodge podge cobbled together.

I'm not totally sold on the Camaro's interior, either. However, as I said about the Challenger earlier, I wouldn't care if either of these cars came with plywood and Astroturf inside, so long as there's three pedals on the floor and a V8 under the hood.

The Mustang update is going to be interesting - how do you top the '67-69 look? If it ends up looking like a '71, there's gonna be problems.

[SuperSport623]

word is the NG mustang is pulling cues from the Mustang II

[Cory Wolfe]

The Challenger is like the Viper, it always looks like a hodge podge cobbled together.

Now... I'd have to disagree with that. The Viper always had a more cohesive design in and out than the Vette.

[balthazar]

The Vipe (1-st gen anyway) has this 'fluidity hiccup' where the doghouse meets the greenhouse; the hood comes in low & flat but the windshield takes a sharp angle upward and it's set real far back... I always had a difficulty ignoring this proportion/area visually. Vette has been more integrated, more 'whole', and by far. That said, I think the design of both kicks ass, esp the 1st gen Viper.

Challenger issue takes me right to the GTO; a thoroughly modern coupe design... often greeted with yawns. No one is going to yawn at the Challenger, and if I'm gonna spend this caliber of coin, I'd rather have a design that polarizes than that's universally accepted and therefore; too conservative. That's not what this segment is about.

[Delta Force79]

I think the production Challenger is a pretty hot looking car myself.... I'm not in the market for a 2 door anything and won't pretend with a "I would rather buy", I'm just gonna say I think it turned out very nice....

F'n sweet, there it is...the concept in production form, I prefer black but that is one mean looking ride.

[K.C.]

Three words: Camino's next car.

[CMG]

The Challenger is like the Viper, it always looks like a hodge podge cobbled together.

At least your posts are consistently silly reg.

We can all read your opinion knowing whatever you say is consistently WRONG, and base our opinions on that alone!

:AH-HA_wink:

[NOS2006]

Now... I'd have to disagree with that. The Viper always had a more cohesive design in and out than the Vette.

IN?!

[SuperSport623]

vette for the mother fukin win!

[K.C.]

The Vipes has always been a the hemorrhoid of the super cars. It hurts when you sit down on it, it burns like hell when you get out of it (on the exhaust), and once you are done with it, you're glad to get back into your Corvette which is much more pleasurable to sit on.

[A Horse With No Name]

It's a case of hemmeroids I wouldn't mind having.

Or, given that it's a MOPAR, shouldn't it be Hemi-roids?

Chris

[BrewSwillis]

IN?!

The Viper looks way more like a "race car". Well laid out gauges, and very minimal distractions. The Viper has always meant to be a street going "race car", while the Corvette was made to be a very livable sports car.

However, your comparison is of a Viper that hasn't really been updated since 2003, and the brand brand new upgraded 2008 interior of the Vette. When you see the pre 2008 Vette interior, it's not all that impressive.....and this is the Z06 interior, because I couldn't even find a pic of a regular interior:

[gm4life]

Vette is by far a more tacked together sports car. The interior is rubber maid bad, the side exhaust look sweet but who cares if the interior sucks and is uncomfortable. (Which it is when compared to a Corvette) any trim of Corvette is a better put together coehisive piece. Over-all the Corvette is better designed. As for the Challenger it wasn't hacked together to bad, hardly but a few sports scream Charger/300. Not a bad thing tho. And it is growing on me. The Viper will always be well a Viper.

Edited January 30, 2008 by gm4life

[Cory Wolfe]

Reg said design, not quality. In that way, Viper > Vette.

[Intrepidation]

I've always liked the Viper's clean and minimalist design. The Vette's is more luxurious but at the same time it seems busy and not as purpose built. Viper has better seats though/

[NOS2006]

However, your comparison is of a Viper that hasn't really been updated since 2003, and the brand brand new upgraded 2008 interior of the Vette. When you see the pre 2008 Vette interior, it's not all that impressive.....and this is the Z06 interior, because I couldn't even find a pic of a regular interior:

Viper was re-engineered with some exterior changes and powertrain enhancements, so they had more than enough time and reason to upgrade the interior. Rating a 2008 interior against a 2008 interior sounds fair to me.

Vette is by far a more tacked together sports car. The interior is rubber maid bad, the side exhaust look sweet but who cares if the interior sucks and is uncomfortable.

I almost went off on you for saying the Vette has a rubber maid interior.

But I'll attest and say the Viper's IP isn't as bad a material as I had originally thought.

Reg said design, not quality. In that way, Viper > Vette.

Interior design: Vette > Viper

Exterior design: Viper > Vette

Overall quality: Vette > Viper

[Camino LS6]

Three words: Camino's next car.

No chance of that now, with the G8 ST calling my name.

But don't be surprised if I pick up a used one someday. :AH-HA_wink:

[Cory Wolfe]

Interior design: Vette > Viper

Largely depends on what your rating it on.

Cohesiveness? Viper > Vette.

Driver oriented? Viper > Vette.

Attitude? Viper > Vette.

Luxuriousness? Viper < Vette.

Comfort? Viper < Vette.

Livability? Viper < Vette.

Since Reg's comments were about being "cobbled together looking", I'd say the Viper wins. The Viper is all sports car with no apologies.

Edited January 30, 2008 by blackviper8891

[Intrepidation]

Viper was re-engineered with some exterior changes and powertrain enhancements, so they had more than enough time and reason to upgrade the interior. Rating a 2008 interior against a 2008 interior sounds fair to me.

I almost went off on you for saying the Vette has a rubber maid interior.

But I'll attest and say the Viper's IP isn't as bad a material as I had originally thought.

Interior design: Vette > Viper

Exterior design: Viper > Vette

Overall quality: Vette > Viper

I beg to differ in terms of exterior. The Corvette looks fine and all but it's the same shape from base model all the way up to ZR1...it just doesn't feel a special. The Viper is all attitude and makes no apologies for what it is. Don't like the side exhaust or the interior? Piss off and softer car. Pansies need not apply (I can see this being in the official brochure ). Besides, I'd rather them spend the money on engineering instead of how my hands ill feel caressing the interior, which is what they did.

I would take a driver focused, clean interior over a fussy one that allows me to sleep on the dash if I could fit up there any day.

The Viper has always been aimed at the more hardcore, and for those looking for a car that makes no apologies for what it is and refuses to be watered down. It's not a midsize family car. In terms of practicality and livability, the Corvette wins, but in terms of being truly special with no base model to water it down, the Viper wins handily in my book.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Camino LS6]

I always loved the original Viper (especially a GTS) - the new one not so much.

I'd rather have the Vette.

[NOS2006]

I beg to differ in terms of exterior. The Corvette looks fine and all but it's the same shape from base model all the way up to ZR1...it just doesn't feel a special. The Viper is all attitude and makes no apologies for what it is. Don't like the side exhaust or the interior? Piss off and softer car. Pansies need not apply (I can see this being in the official brochure ). Besides, I'd rather them spend the money on engineering instead of how my hands ill feel caressing the interior, which is what they did.

Exterior design: Viper > Vette

Geeeeze, learn to read! haha

[Intrepidation]

Ooops. XD

[NOS2006]

haha Didn't you do that the other day, too?

[BrewSwillis]

Lets get back on topic:

I hope they spruce up the interior a bit. At least don't use the same Charger steering wheel.

[Robert Hall]

A modern version of the 1970s 'tuff' wheel would be neat..

[Intrepidation]

I do hope they at least ditch the ugly steering wheel.

[CMG]

LX steering wheel has to go IMO.

It might be LX based, but it has to have a musclecar feel. That steering wheel isn't retro, isn't musclecar, and looks out of place.

Like reg, at a mensa convention.....

:AH-HA_wink:

[Northstar]

Ugh, the interior is so generic. Reminds me of the Cobalt's.

[Delta Force79]

I must say, the interior is quite a letdown. It's dull and boring and they ditched what I was hoping would stay, the concepts gauge cluster. The LX wheel needs to go ASAP and they need to dress up that center stack a little. Cmon Chrysler

[BrewSwillis]

New pic from Autoblog. Check out that trunk lift over height! I give them credit for making such a non-ergonomic trunk for the sake of keeping it looking like a muscle car. Like someone that buys a coupe is really looking for practicality.

[Robert Hall]

New pic from Autoblog. Check out that trunk lift over height! I give them credit for making such a non-ergonomic trunk for the sake of keeping it looking like a muscle car. Like someone that buys a coupe is really looking for practicality.

Looking at that pic, I bet the decklid drops down to the bumper in the center (i.e. the two black cutlines in the taillights). It's nice to see a car with narrow horizontal taillights in this era of bland, look-alike triangular corner lights being so common.

Edited January 31, 2008 by moltar

[BrewSwillis]

Looking at that pic, I bet the decklid drops down to the bumper in the center (i.e. the two black cutlines in the taillights). It's nice to see a car with narrow horizontal taillights in this era of bland, look-alike triangular corner lights being so common.

Yeah it looks like it could, but that's still a pretty high lift-over height. No problem for me. It just wouldn't look right if they tried to make it open down into the bumper more.

[avro206]

I want to see the CDN pricing.