Availability of 3-dr

[bowtie_dude]

If I suddenly found myself in the market for a new car in the latter-half of the year, what would be the chances of 3-dr XR manuals being available? Or would I be stuck with a 5-dr XR or waiting for the next MY?

[ZL-1]

i'd wait for the 3-door just because i like it better

[bowtie_dude]

i'd wait for the 3-door just because i like it better

It is very very nice. :hot: :hot:

[the_yellow_dart]

Seeing the 5-door in person, I wouldn't be at all disappointed setting for that.

This is coming from someone who hates the side profile of the Cobalt sedan.

The Astra just comes off sportier.

[PurdueGuy]

have you gone to see them in person and see how you really like the two models?

[A Horse With No Name]

I drove an Astra Wednesday. Like it very well, nut sure a 3 door would improve the current design.

My quick thoughts:

Love the styling, better than Mazda 3, Civic, GTI, etc. This car does not photograph well but in person IMHO it is the best looking car in the segment.

I'm a big guy 250lbs and almost 6' tall and I can ride in the backseat of both the 3 door and 5 door with zero problems.

The center stack on the dash is about as awkward as that in the MIni-Cooper, but if I can forgive the MCS for that I can forgive the Astra.

Car does not have great visibility out of the rear window, esp. in three door form. Since I'm used to driving a Mustang Fastback, a Miata, a GMC Safari van, and a Ford Econoline work truck, it doesn't bother me. But if you like lots of rearward visibility you'll be disapointed.

Fit and finish on the car beats Honda and Mazda. As a Current toyota owner I can say the car hands down IMHO beats Toyota Fit and finish. The interor has some plastics some of our members might quible about, but its a 17k car, its not a CTS. As such, Astra reminds me more of Volkswagen-Audi than say Ford.

Driving dynamics? Some people might flame me for this but it is IMHO a four door 5 seat Miata. Hands down the best road feel and handeling of anything in its class. By far.

Guages are the nicest of anything in the price range and very easy to read. My Safari van has oil pressure, temp, and battery chage guage and this car needs that also. You can probably get that info through the small screen in the dash, but I'd prefer a guage. The Oil pressure guage saved the motor in the Safari and the Motor in my 55 Chevy when I lost oil pumps in both vehicles, so this is kind of a turn off.

The car is definitely a drivers car, gives you lots of feedback. Driving position is much better than other cars of its class and size. It is a night and day difference between this car and say an Acura Integra, the other small premium car that sold well here for years. If Saturn can get people into the showrooms to look at it they should sell a fair number.

Overall, I liked the vehicle far more than my post above suggests. On a scale of 1 to ten I rate it about 9.5 or 9.7.

Personally, I was going to be able to pay off my xB and buy one until my son Joel had emergency surgury and I got laid off work. My tax return should pay what health insurance doesn't on the surgury, and I( probably start a new Job Monday so I should hopefully still be able to buy one within the next year.

Chris

[K.C.]

Didn't blu drive a 3 door 5 speed XR?

[bowtie_dude]

Didn't blu drive a 3 door 5 speed XR?

Thats what I want. Loaded.

[ocnblu]

Shoot, I drove a 3-door XR with no options, and I didn't exactly go wanting for anything. The car has all the toys.

[balthazar]

>>"...3-dr...5-dr"<<

As with kids wearing their pants down around their thighs & hitching them up every other step like a chronic OCD victim, I wish this ridiculous crap would just go away. I really don't give a tin &#036;h&#33; if 'everyone is doing it', it still makes no sense- no one climbs thru the hatch; it's not a door... it's all automotive PC-ness to shield the image conscious from the horrors of driving a "hatchback". Why people at large buy into... never mind- I know why.

[bowtie_dude]

>>"...3-dr...5-dr"<<

As with kids wearing their pants down around their thighs & hitching them up every other step like a chronic OCD victim, I wish this ridiculous crap would just go away. I really don't give a tin &#036;h&#33; if 'everyone is doing it', it still makes no sense- no one climbs thru the hatch; it's not a door... it's all automotive PC-ness to shield the image conscious from the horrors of driving a "hatchback". Why people at large buy into... never mind- I know why.

Man...I'm just calling it what everyone else knows it by.

[balthazar]

I know- wasn't addressing you directly, dude. Just ranting in general.

[Croc]

Well, it is more of a door than a trunk decklid. And the term 3-door probably is derived from the term 5-door, from when wagons actually had a rear-facing third row that you would access from the cargo door. In fact, it might even be from the old side-opening access doors wagons had, which were much more door-like before gas struts and liftgates became commonplace.

[K.C.]

In addition, the tailgate does enter the vehicles passenger compartment, unlike a conventional 3-box sedan or coupe, where the boot opens up into a storage compartment, hence, not a door.

[balthazar]

>>"And the term 3-door probably is derived from the term 5-door, from when wagons actually had a rear-facing third row that you would access from the cargo door."<<

Those were never called "5-drs"... but you're right: that would be more of a '5-dr' than anything on the market today.

In my book, either you use this rear portal to physically enter the vehicle, or you don't. So it's a 'door' or it's no different that a trunklid, regardless of if it's directly connected to the passenger compartment or not. This exact same configuration was always called a hatchback, now none are. Think about it.

[pow]

When I checked the ASTRA out four or five weeks ago they had both 3- and 5-doors: a silver XE 5-door, with no options but A/C and automatic, and a black XR manual fully loaded with leather and 18-inch alloys. I wasn't aware the 3-doors were in short supply.

[Robert Hall]

>>"...3-dr...5-dr"<<

As with kids wearing their pants down around their thighs & hitching them up every other step like a chronic OCD victim, I wish this ridiculous crap would just go away. I really don't give a tin &#036;h&#33; if 'everyone is doing it', it still makes no sense- no one climbs thru the hatch; it's not a door... it's all automotive PC-ness to shield the image conscious from the horrors of driving a "hatchback". Why people at large buy into... never mind- I know why.

Dude, hatchback bodystyles have been called 3dr and 5dr since at least the early '80s or longer...get used to it. It's nothing new.

[pow]

When I checked the ASTRA out four or five weeks ago they had both 3- and 5-doors: a silver XE 5-door, with no options but A/C and automatic, and a black XR manual fully loaded with leather and 18-inch alloys. I wasn't aware the 3-doors were in short supply.

A quick check of some local retailers...

Saturn of Torrance

8 XR 3-doors

3 XR 5-doors

9 XE 5-doors

Saturn of Cerritos

21 XR 3-doors

21 XR 5-doors

11 XE 5-doors

Saturn of Santa Monica

4 XR 3-doors

9 XR 5-doors

10 XE 5-doors

Saturn of Huntington Beach

5 XR 3-doors

3 XR 5-doors

6 XE 5-doors

Or 38 3-doors within a 30 mile radius.. the product mix seems to be pretty balanced.

Edited February 10, 2008 by empowah

[regfootball]

i sat in a 3door today.

nice interior. the center stack items are too low IMHO.

the plastics and everything are alright, not anyting to complain about really. the shifter is really nice. gauges are nice, possibly the best in class. why are people not giving saturn props for its interiors? overall, the interior is a good competitor for the top cars in the class. makes the civic interior look stupid (not like it didn't do that itself).

sort of a really claustrophobic cabin. low roof. high beltline. very little glass. horrible view out the back. don't buy this car if you like to see what is going on behind you or to the side rear of you. i really didn't feel comfortable in it. the cabin felt intrusive.

doesn't appear to have much for cargo space.

i thought it seemed tight on space. i had the seat all the way back and i had to keep the seat way down to feel like i had headroom. cabin width wasn't terrible. i will have to sit in the 5 door at the auto show to see if its as cramped feeling.

this does not have the appeal of a volume seller. it does have appeal of for a special, picky buyer. It doesn't seem to have the capacity of the VW's or the mazda. however as it is, it will be a nice alternative for those who may be shopping the volvo or the minis, etc.

it's definitely not a me-too car, which is odd, because it sells so huge over the pond.

it was fricking cold and snowy out so i didn't test drive it. i can understand the appeal of the car, it's nice.

Edited February 10, 2008 by regfootball

[balthazar]

>>"Dude, hatchback bodystyles have been called 3dr and 5dr since at least the early '80s or longer...get used to it. It's nothing new. "<<

It's not about it being new or getting used to it; I've heard it since it started.

It's about calling it what it is and tossing the PC bullsh!t out the window. It's about being aware of what's going on; that a 'pre-owned' car is nothing different than a 'used' car (except that it just might possibly cost you more)... it's about not blindly accepting whatever marketing shoves down your throat and smiling & nodding at your choking neighbor over it.

I think I'm going to now say my house has... 20 exterior doors and no windows, because it sounds mysterious.. or fortified.... or something ultimately ridiculous. Cool & exclusive, huh? You watch, it'll catch on in a jif.

Whatever, I'm a dinosaur, ignore me.

[Robert Hall]

Whatever, I'm a dinosaur, ignore me.

'Curmudgeon' I think is the appropriate term..

[Croc]

>>"Dude, hatchback bodystyles have been called 3dr and 5dr since at least the early '80s or longer...get used to it. It's nothing new. "<<

It's not about it being new or getting used to it; I've heard it since it started.

It's about calling it what it is and tossing the PC bullsh!t out the window. It's about being aware of what's going on; that a 'pre-owned' car is nothing different than a 'used' car (except that it just might possibly cost you more)... it's about not blindly accepting whatever marketing shoves down your throat and smiling & nodding at your choking neighbor over it.

I think I'm going to now say my house has... 20 exterior doors and no windows, because it sounds mysterious.. or fortified.... or something ultimately ridiculous. Cool & exclusive, huh? You watch, it'll catch on in a jif.

Whatever, I'm a dinosaur, ignore me.

Uhhh how is calling a hatchback a 3-dr a "politically-correct" statement?? Saying "hatchback" will not cause you to be viewed as a bigot.

[balthazar]

For lack of a more specifically-technical term... it's marketing spin to avoid the only other bodystyle name for it: hatchback... which picked up a 'cheap econobox' connotation in the '70s and '80s.

And being politically correct reaches much farther than merely the behavior of a bigot.

[Cory Wolfe]

Silly argument.

Hatchback, 3-door/5-door... Whatever. Who cares what you call them...

[pow]

Even in countries where hatchbacks don't have an "econobox connotation", the same terms are used to differentiate between, well, 3-door and 5-door hatchbacks.

[thegriffon]

And what do you call the "doors" on the back of a Savana? They are doors, whether they open vertically of horizontally, whether you load people or cargo through them.

[thegriffon]

If you look up hatch in the dictionary it will even say "a small door…". It's not a lid, it's not a window, it's a door.

[ZL-1]

This 3-door/5-door debate is funny

What I find interesting is that people seem really surprised at the Astra's interior, even though it is not a new car... Are Cobalt/G5/US-Focus interiors that bad?

EDIT - I think I know the answer re the US Focus.........

Edited February 10, 2008 by ZL-1

[balthazar]

>>"And what do you call the "doors" on the back of a Savana?"<<

Since people can and do pass thru them and they are positioned & large enough for that, I would consider them doors. Same for the rear... portals on minivans, but the rear portal on the Astra is not meant, nor is it easy for a person to pass thru them.

I can climb thru the windows in my house (and have once or twice), but I don't call them 'doors'.

Enough- I'm done with this; not actually hoping to change anyone's mind here, just venting.

[K.C.]

Uhhh how is calling a hatchback a 3-dr a "politically-correct" statement?? Saying "hatchback" will not cause you to be viewed as a bigot.

:rotflmao:

[regfootball]

in case people haven't seen it, Road and Track has a seriously good write up on the 3 door Astra XR. a very nice review. check it out. blu that means you too.

[bowtie_dude]

The power is the only downside of the Astra.

[aaaantoine]

I resort to saying 3-door and 5-door because it differentiates from coupe and sedan using small and concise words. While I have no qualms with the term "hatchback", it doesn't describe whether the car has two or four side doors. You'd have to say "2-door hatchback" or "4-door hatchback". Being a fan of efficient language, I prefer saying "3-door" and "5-door"

There are a number of words that people use that either are not acceptable English, or do not represent the original meaning. For instance, a "hacker" is supposed to be any programmer, not just those that try to break into computers. Hackers that use their expertise to break into computers are traditionally known as "crackers". However, popular culture has taken the term "hacker" to represent the latter group in particular. Speaking of terms that were probably coined for political correctness, I imagine calling them "crackers" would me misinterpreted by most news-watching individuals...

And of course, let's not forget how the meaning of coupe and sedan have shifted over the years... And how Mercedes-Benz brought the topic to the forefront by calling their CLS a "4-door coupe".

[regfootball]

yeah, real coupes are hardtops without b pillars

[Robert Hall]

yeah, real coupes are hardtops without b pillars

Some coupes have B-pillars but frameless door glass, for instance, a Ferrari 550, 575, 599, or 612. Or the current Mustang. No one would call them 2dr sedans...

Edited February 15, 2008 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

Right.... so in other words a '69 Impala wagon or a '72 Electra Estate would technically

be 5-doors, that would make some sense, but I agree, a hatch on a modern economy

car is not an extra door.

[balthazar]

Some coupes have B-pillars but frameless door glass, for instance, a Ferrari 550, 575, 599, or 612. Or the current Mustang. No one would call them 2dr sedans...

Not familiar with any of the ferrari alphanumerics, but yes; many people WOULD call the current Mustang a 2-dr sedan... because it is. Classic definition (as opposed to -say- mercedes') is a derivativge of the term 'closed coupled', and the physical definition of this would be a Viper of Corvette: no rear side glass, and by nature of them being 2-seaters: quite closed coupled.

Many automakers play fast-n-loose with terminology (ala mercedes) purely for marketing reasons.

[Robert Hall]

Not familiar with any of the ferrari alphanumerics, but yes; many people WOULD call the current Mustang a 2-dr sedan... because it is. Classic definition (as opposed to -say- mercedes') is a derivativge of the term 'closed coupled', and the physical definition of this would be a Viper of Corvette: no rear side glass, and by nature of them being 2-seaters: quite closed coupled.

Many automakers play fast-n-loose with terminology (ala mercedes) purely for marketing reasons.

Whatever...

[balthazar]

I cannot see how you would see it otherwise... except that the automaker told you it was so.

Lemmee guess; you also believe the 2-dr bmw 3-series is a 'coupe', right? O...K...

[Robert Hall]

I cannot see how you would see it otherwise... except that the automaker told you it was so.

Lemmee guess; you also believe the 2-dr bmw 3-series is a 'coupe', right? O...K...

I certainly refer to them as coupes... definitions change over time. These body style definitions are not cast in stone...stop being such a curmudgeon and open your mind, ok?

(of course, in the bigger scheme of things, this is all just trivia).

Edited February 15, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

YOU may refer to them as coupes, but in your open-mindedness, you must realize not everyone is always going to agree with you, right?

>>"No one would call them 2dr sedans... "<<

Sorry, it's the absolutes in your posts that prompt me to unintentionally dog you on occasion.

And you can desist calling me a curmudgeon, "it's not 1970 anymore".

[Robert Hall]

YOU may refer to them as coupes, but in your open-mindedness, you must realize not everyone is always going to agree with you, right?

>>"No one would call them 2dr sedans... "<<

Sorry, it's the absolutes in your posts that prompt me to unintentionally dog you on occasion.

And you can desist calling me a curmudgeon, "it's not 1970 anymore".

Ok...I give up. You are impossible.

[regfootball]

geez, i was merely being sarcastic and inviting panther comments. LOL

[bowtie_dude]

How are we arguing about the semantics of calling the rear hatch on a wagon a door for 3 freakin pages?

[Robert Hall]

How are we arguing about the semantics of calling the rear hatch on a wagon a door for 3 freakin pages?

Because on the internet, arguing over trivia is the highest form of conversation..

[PurdueGuy]

I like my 3 door saturns.

(pictured car not mine, but identical configuration)

That throw enough wrenches into the terminology?

[Robert Hall]

I like my 3 door saturns.

That throw enough wrenches into the terminology?

And what if that Saturn had had a hatchback...would it have been a 4dr?