Opel Insignia unceremoniously revealed a week early

[Intrepidation]

I love all the EP IIs, they are like my children, just like the Kappas were when I was at Wilmington. :AH-HA_wink:

Hey FOG, in case you don't know it, Saturn is Opel, so how can Opel rip something off of Saturn, they are one in the same!

Anyway, Autoblog says the Insignia notch and hatchback will debut July 22, 2008 at the London Motor Show and hit showrooms starting in November. The Insignia was developed at GM Europe's International Technical Development Center in Rüsselsheim, Germany, which also is home to its production. The Rüsselsheim facility is one of the most advanced car plants in the industry. I'm going to try and stop by that show, I will be starting my vacation then, so on my return to the USA I will make a pit stop in London, I've never been to that auto show, I wonder if the Queen goes?

I hope one of your "children" goes to the gym and toughens up a bit.

[Robert Hall]

I' m looking forward to seeing how the rear of the hatch looks...will there be a wagon also?

[VenSeattle]

I personally think it's one of the best vehicles in the segment, based on pics alone. Experience behind the wheel will either reward or kill that impression. I think Saturn has a hands-down winner in the US. Camry and Accord should be very worried.

It gives me confidence that GM is finally defining each of their divisions appropriately. The Malibu is a great vehicle in its segment and price range. the Insignia/Aura appears to be so as well. The amazing thing is that I don't vision Malibu and Aura buyers cross-shopping them. They seem to be in completely different classes without appearing inferior to each other. I can't wait to see the entire picture when SAAB and Buick debut their EPII vehicles.

[thegriffon]

http://www.gmeurope.tv/index.php?amount=10...lInsigniaTeaser

I like it. Bigger than I thought it would be, and like the Mondeo not easy to tell the difference between the sedan and hatchback. And hey, you get 4-door coupe styling you have to pay extra for in the Passat.

[Croc]

OK...the profile looks crisper in the second batch of photos, and overall I don't dislike it quite as much...but that's a halfhearted compliment.

What is going on with the rear? It looks droopy, yet the "spoiler" is pretty pointy. The taillamps are not flush with the decklid, and overall it just has a very busy, cobbled-together look. Boo.

The greenhouse chrome is odd. The door sill chrome extends further than the arcing chrome from the greenhouse. These should line up.

Agreed on the hood cutline. It should be lower, lining up with the top edge of the headlamps. As it is, it just looks awkward.

I really wanted to like this, but unless this is just bad GM photography, I'm really not impressed.

[Guest aatbloke]

I love all the EP IIs, they are like my children, just like the Kappas were when I was at Wilmington. :AH-HA_wink:

Hey FOG, in case you don't know it, Saturn is Opel, so how can Opel rip something off of Saturn, they are one in the same!

Anyway, Autoblog says the Insignia notch and hatchback will debut July 22, 2008 at the London Motor Show and hit showrooms starting in November. The Insignia was developed at GM Europe's International Technical Development Center in Rüsselsheim, Germany, which also is home to its production. The Rüsselsheim facility is one of the most advanced car plants in the industry. I'm going to try and stop by that show, I will be starting my vacation then, so on my return to the USA I will make a pit stop in London, I've never been to that auto show, I wonder if the Queen goes?

What Autoblog failed to mention was that the suspension was re-engineered by Vauxhall for the UK market - likely to be the Insignia's largest as was the case with the Vectra. They also gave the car a number of other tweaks for the (likely) UK-only SRi model.

Saturn is not Opel. Saturn is a separate subsidiary of GM based in the US. GM is using the Saturn outlet to brand a number of Opels as Saturn for the North American market, and vice versa as Opels starting with the Sky - although that car was based off the Vauxhall VX Lightning designed at Vauxhall's design centre in Birmingham.

FYI, just because an event is held in Britain doesn't mean the Queen has to be in attendance. She has opened UK international shows before, such as the former Birmingham show at the NEC.

Edited April 18, 2008 by aatbloke

[enzl]

I forgot about the dreadful GM stock photography when I judged this product.

It may look better in person, but I just don't see how this will be nearly as good looking as the concept.

I'm getting another 'over-promise, under-deliver' feeling about this one. Hopefully, it'll handle better that its predecessors, which were/are mediocre, regardless of specific model.

[Guest aatbloke]

I forgot about the dreadful GM stock photography when I judged this product.

It may look better in person, but I just don't see how this will be nearly as good looking as the concept.

I'm getting another 'over-promise, under-deliver' feeling about this one. Hopefully, it'll handle better that its predecessors, which were/are mediocre, regardless of specific model.

I wouldn't say the Vectra was mediocre in the handling department - it was hardly best in class, but every one I've ever driven was quite posied and very composed on the road. The big problem was that the chassis couldn't deal with large amounts of power, and the high-performance models (especially the VXR) suffered chronic torque steer.

[Drew Dowdell]

In that case we simply disagree about the looks of this car.

I see it and the new Vue as complete styling failures, which disappoints me.

a difference in tastes is fine.... I responded to OCN's comment that the car would be ok if it was RWD.

[ehaase]

The car is attractive enough, but I will be more interested in the interior and cargo room specifications. I believe these are areas where GM needs to do better.

[enzl]

I wouldn't say the Vectra was mediocre in the handling department - it was hardly best in class, but every one I've ever driven was quite posied and very composed on the road. The big problem was that the chassis couldn't deal with large amounts of power, and the high-performance models (especially the VXR) suffered chronic torque steer.

Ford has had a leg up in the mid-sector for quite sometime in the handling department, both in Europe and the US. The Fusion is simply a better ride than the Epsilons here, and it's my understanding that the Mondeo is a class leading FWD car.

I haven't spent any seat time in the Vectra, but my time in a 9-3T was disappointing.

Remember, most high-performance variants of this chassis in the US will be Saabs, not Saturns---and Saab needs EpII to be great, not decent. The Vectra VXR is tiny fraction of Vectra sales, whereas Saab is going to try and peddle 2/3 of its production here in the states as an EpII eventually--more, if you consider the 9-4X a derivative of the Eps.

[Camino LS6]

I hope Saturn at least makes significant changes to the nose.

I guess we'll see.

[Guest aatbloke]

Ford has had a leg up in the mid-sector for quite sometime in the handling department, both in Europe and the US. The Fusion is simply a better ride than the Epsilons here, and it's my understanding that the Mondeo is a class leading FWD car.

I haven't spent any seat time in the Vectra, but my time in a 9-3T was disappointing.

Remember, most high-performance variants of this chassis in the US will be Saabs, not Saturns---and Saab needs EpII to be great, not decent. The Vectra VXR is tiny fraction of Vectra sales, whereas Saab is going to try and peddle 2/3 of its production here in the states as an EpII eventually--more, if you consider the 9-4X a derivative of the Eps.

I'm not disputing that the Vectra's chassis was inferior to the Mondeo's - that's always been the case since the Mondeo debuted in 1993. However the Vectra's chassis itself wasn't mediocre; it was just limited in its capabilities.

Unlike the 1993 900/9-3, the current-gen Saab 9-3 and 9-5 used a modified platform from the Vectra in order to give their high-performance variants the capabilities expected in the junior exec segment, so consequently they didn't suffer the same degree of poor handling as high-performance Vectras did.

[Robert Hall]

I wouldn't say the Vectra was mediocre in the handling department - it was hardly best in class, but every one I've ever driven was quite posied and very composed on the road. The big problem was that the chassis couldn't deal with large amounts of power, and the high-performance models (especially the VXR) suffered chronic torque steer.

I drove a Vectra diesel a few years ago in northern Italy, it seemed quite nice... better than the US FWD GMs I've driven from Avis here in the States...

[PurdueGuy]

didn't read the whole thread, but my opinion: it's a pretty good looking car, and will make a fine Saturn. To anyone hoping they change this or that, don't get your hopes up, I expect they designed it to require minimal changes for the NA market.

[Robert Hall]

didn't read the whole thread, but my opinion: it's a pretty good looking car, and will make a fine Saturn. To anyone hoping they change this or that, don't get your hopes up, I expect they designed it to require minimal changes for the NA market.

Yep..probably a different grille, badging, and different bumpers for NA style license plates will be the noticable changes...

[ocnblu]

Yeah, I was trying to plant an idea in ppl's heads, similar to that old thread about the 2000 Impala/Monte Carlo "what if this car were RWD" scenario. I guess I failed in my mission.

Honestly, as I've said before, most cars up to Epsilon size are fine with FWD, as they are primarily bought as appliances, not as emotionally engaging driving partners. They are throwaways.

I simply don't care about this car. The styling is derivative to me. The interior is fine, except for the obtuse looking radio.

[Blake Noble]

Yeah, I was trying to plant an idea in ppl's heads, similar to that old thread about the 2000 Impala/Monte Carlo "what if this car were RWD" scenario.

What if this were rear-wheel drive? I actually believe GME already answered that question.

Edited April 19, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, I was trying to plant an idea in ppl's heads, similar to that old thread about the 2000 Impala/Monte Carlo "what if this car were RWD" scenario. I guess I failed in my mission.

Honestly, as I've said before, most cars up to Epsilon size are fine with FWD, as they are primarily bought as appliances, not as emotionally engaging driving partners. They are throwaways.

True...if it were RWD it would have some desirability and legitimacy...otherwise, it's just another decent Avis appliance to me.

Edited April 19, 2008 by moltar

[Cory Wolfe]

It's growing on me. Those new pictures certainly help and have actually turned me in favor of the side character line. However, they do nothing for the front fascia.

[cire]

The current Saturn Aura definitely signaled a great new beginning for styling for the Saturn division, but this car absolutely raises the bar even higher. This is a fairly sexy looking midsize sedan, especially considering the segment of the auto market to which it belongs. It looks sporty and upscale and should elevate Saturn's image even higher when it reaches the U.S.

As far as the interior, the only thing I would change is the faux wood trim. I would prefer a metal finish in all the areas where the faux wood trim resides in the interior. Otherwise the interior looks like a winner to me.

Since the current Aura's introduction, GM has continually topped themselves in midsize sedan design. This car indicates that the trend will continue into the future. I would love to see them apply a little of this exciting design philosophy to their compact and subcompact products (mainly the Cobalt and Aveo).

[turbo200]

i think it's a good thing this also connects the aura design traits. from the plumped hood to the side shoulder line running from the back of the front fender to the taillamp. you can see in the shot of this car in motion in griffon's post, when viewed from all perspectives this shoulder line really mimics aura, and connects the two cars. this is good cause it helps build a history. with malibu, GM is like a media darling, they're on a roll, and by the time the aura comes out, aura already has somewhat of a legacy, and you have a brand new introduction with an exciting and fully competent newly refined aura, former car of the year. By the way, when is this coming to US exactly? And is ours based on this or actually going on LWB EP II? I think to have an intermediate sedan at Saturn for mid pricing[22k for light 4 model] is a good way to differentiate from a 'value' Malibu.

Edited April 19, 2008 by turbo200

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I love all the EP IIs, they are like my children, just like the Kappas were when I was at Wilmington. :AH-HA_wink:

Hey FOG, in case you don't know it, Saturn is Opel, so how can Opel rip something off of Saturn, they are one in the same!

The Saturn Ion wasn't Opel... Although, If it were, that could explain why it was a dismal failure.

And am I seriously the only one that sees a HUGE similarity in these two noses? It's the same exact piece on both cars.

And that's with a base Malibu, if it were the chromed out LTZ the resemblance would be even more striking.

I certainly hope the Saturn version gets a nose job. If not, we're back to the Chevy Trucks/GMC days of sharing noses with different grilles

Edited April 19, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Blake Noble]

The front fascia on the Chevrolet is a little better executed, overall, in my opinion. But, no, you could not swap the front-end of the Opel onto the front-end of the Chevrolet and vice versa. They are not exactly the same.

Edited April 19, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Intrepidation]

The Saturn Ion wasn't Opel... Although, If it were, that could explain why it was a dismal failure.

And am I seriously the only one that sees a HUGE similarity in these two noses? It's the same exact piece on both cars.

And that's with a base Malibu, if it were the chromed out LTZ the resemblance would be even more striking.

I certainly hope the Saturn version gets a nose job. If not, we're back to the Chevy Trucks/GMC days of sharing noses with different grilles

While there may be similarities in the overall design they are not exactly the same or anywhere near it.

[turbo200]

the open mouth of the malibu is a prominent design feature, one of the first things you notice on that face is a good looking grin, so no I don't think they'll be confused, but there are similarities just like you could say of quite a few other newer cars; if anything the insignia cues are more like camry's, though these end up looking different too.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The front fascia on the Chevrolet is a little better executed, overall, in my opinion. But, no, you could not swap the front-end of the Opel onto the front-end of the Chevrolet and vice versa. They are not exactly the same.

I beg to differ...

The hood on the Opel looks to be a bit different and the front fender is a little different. But I'm willing to bet that the nose is the same. If not, Opel sure as hell must be out of ideas. My god man, these people are supposedly the future of GM, yet they suck this bad?!?!

Doesn't really bother me that GM is "doubling up" since 1) it eliminates costs and 2) the Opel doesn't compete with the Chevy. What does bother me is that this appears to be the exact car we're getting as a Saturn. Not to mention, the Ep II Buick is said to be very similar as well.

So, I guess yet again, for every 1 step forward GM will take 2 steps back.

As far as the cars not getting confused, or being deliberately criticized... If the consumer isn't smart enough to tell what engine is in the car (Most aren't, I worked in parts for a LONG time) then what makes people think that they won't confuse cars that are this similar. It'll be a disaster for the hot selling Malibu and the media will make it that much worse with the "badge engineering"

Edited April 20, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Robert Hall]

I beg to differ...

The hood on the Opel looks to be a bit different and either the front fender or headlight is a little different. But I'm willing to bet that it's the same thing. (Even the placement and shape of the marker light is the same.

Doesn't really bother me that GM is "doubling up" since 1) it eliminates costs and 2) the Opel doesn't compete with the Chevy. What does bother me is that this appears to be the exact car we're getting as a Saturn. Not to mention, the Ep II Buick is said to be very similar as well.

So, I guess yet again, for every 1 step forward GM will take 2 steps back.

It does look like they will all have different sheetmetal and unique greenhouses, though...like the current Epsilons.. As long as GM isn't sharing exteriors across brands in NA models, that's a good thing.

Edited April 20, 2008 by moltar

[Blake Noble]

I will let the photos speak for themselves.

I know what you are trying to say, FOG, and it is that you could take the fascia on the Insignia and transplant it to a Malibu without any modification. It would not work that way as the Malibu's fenders have a more pronounced flare than the Insignia's fenders and the Malibu's hood cutline meets up differently with the front fascia than the Insignia's hood cutline.

Edited April 20, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Oracle of Delphi]

The Saturn Ion wasn't Opel... Although, If it were, that could explain why it was a dismal failure.

Even Opel wouldn't take ownership of the ION, that was GMNA's brainchild.

However by 2014 the only difference between what Opel sells in Europe, and what Saturn sells in North America will be the badge, other than that, the vehicles will be identical. This was confirmed by Ed Welburn.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Robert Hall]

There is a similarity in front end shape between the Malibu and Insignia, but the details are all different..probably not one exterior part interchanges.

To confuse the matter further, though, I wonder if there will be a Chevy Insignia version for some markets, the same way there is a Chevy Vectra in some markets now..

Edited April 20, 2008 by moltar

[Blake Noble]

There is a similarity in front end shape between the Malibu and Insignia, but the details are all different..probably not one exterior part interchanges.

Exactly!

[Oracle of Delphi]

To confuse the matter further, though, I wonder if there will be a Chevy Insignia version for some markets, the same way there is a Chevy Vectra in some markets now..

I think you can pretty much count on that in the Latin American market.

[Blake Noble]

Isn't the Malibu undergoing consideration to be shipped to Brazil as well? Can we say "overlap?"

[Robert Hall]

Isn't the Malibu undergoing consideration to be shipped to Brazil as well? Can we say "overlap?"

Yes, I've read that..the wierd thing is in Mexico currently they have the Malibu and the Vectra. And the Astra and Optra, but not the Cobalt...

[Blake Noble]

Hmm ... this really conflicts with Chevrolet's "global brand" positioning where no market will get an wholly exclusive model.

Edited April 20, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Oracle of Delphi]

Hmm ... this really conflicts with Chevrolet's "global brand" positioning where no market will get an wholly exclusive model.

Not really, the Opels sold there wear Chevy badges. :AH-HA_wink:

[Blake Noble]

Not really, the Opels sold there wear Chevy badges. :AH-HA_wink:

Hmm ...

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Yes, I've read that..the wierd thing is in Mexico currently they have the Malibu and the Vectra. And the Astra and Optra, but not the Cobalt...

The new Cobalt(comes out 2009 as 2010 model) will replace the Optra .

[Guest aatbloke]

The Saturn Ion wasn't Opel... Although, If it were, that could explain why it was a dismal failure.

And am I seriously the only one that sees a HUGE similarity in these two noses? It's the same exact piece on both cars.

And that's with a base Malibu, if it were the chromed out LTZ the resemblance would be even more striking.

I certainly hope the Saturn version gets a nose job. If not, we're back to the Chevy Trucks/GMC days of sharing noses with different grilles

The Saturn Ion wasn't an Opel, but it did use the Delta platform which, like the larger Epsilon architecture, was developed laregly by Opel.

The Insignia sits on the Epsilon II platform whereas the new Malibu uses a revised version of the former LWB Epsilon platform. It isn't due for Epsilon II underpinnings for another four years.

Edited April 20, 2008 by aatbloke

[Guest aatbloke]

There is a similarity in front end shape between the Malibu and Insignia, but the details are all different..probably not one exterior part interchanges.

To confuse the matter further, though, I wonder if there will be a Chevy Insignia version for some markets, the same way there is a Chevy Vectra in some markets now..

In some South American markets the 2002 Vectra wearing Chevrolet badges was replaced by the Astra sedan in 2006, confusingly also badged Vectra. At the same time the Holden badged version of the Vectra in Australasia was replaced by a Holdenised GM-DAT sourced Tosca/Epica.

[Guest aatbloke]

Even Opel wouldn't take ownership of the ION, that was GMNA's brainchild.

However by 2014 the only difference between what Opel sells in Europe, and what Saturn sells in North America will be the badge, other than that, the vehicles will be identical. This was confirmed by Ed Welburn.

With all due respect that isn't exactly the case. What was said that the two marques would be "virtually interchangeable", meaning that models developed (not necessarily sold) for both markets would either be straightforward rebadges or have little necessary modification other than legislative changes. Carl Forster confirmed that when a new vehicle is developed in Europe, it has to be capable of meeting North American requirements, and vice-versa. As was reported, that isn't to say that the two markets will ultimately share every model: there are likely to be additional models specific to the conditions of both markets - such as the Outlook (or future equivalent) in North America and Agila in Europe - which will not traverse the Atlantic. That said, the Insignia will be sold in North America in 2010 and GM sources confirmed the next-generation Corsa, due in Europe in 2011, will also be sold as a Saturn.

So what will be created with Saturn is broadly similar to the situation which existed for many years with Holden in terms of bread-and-butter models.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I know what you are trying to say, FOG, and it is that you could take the fascia on the Insignia and transplant it to a Malibu without any modification. It would not work that way as the Malibu's fenders have a more pronounced flare than the Insignia's fenders and the Malibu's hood cutline meets up differently with the front fascia than the Insignia's hood cutline.

I know... That's why I said the hood and fender designs were different. The cars are still too similar.

(I should've been a bit more clear; I think my off the cuff rantings have only added confusion. Sorry.)

Edited April 21, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[daves87rs]

Even Opel wouldn't take ownership of the ION, that was GMNA's brainchild.

However by 2014 the only difference between what Opel sells in Europe, and what Saturn sells in North America will be the badge, other than that, the vehicles will be identical. This was confirmed by Ed Welburn.

I can live with that!

[Guest aatbloke]

"I know... That's why I said the hood and fender designs were different. The cars are still too similar."

It's coincidence - nothing more. Cars for sale in Europe are these days more restricted in front-end design concepts due to pedestrian anti-impailing legislation. The bull-nose look is more commonplace as a result compared with cars sold in the EU just ten to fifteen years ago.

[Camino LS6]

Note to GM: Leave the bull-nose look in Europe- it invariably looks like crap.

[Blake Noble]

I know... That's why I said the hood and fender designs were different. The cars are still too similar.

(I should've been a bit more clear; I think my off the cuff rantings have only added confusion. Sorry.)

No apologies, FOG. I know personally how one can get caught up in one's self concerning something they are enthusiastic about.

Edited April 28, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Guest aatbloke]

Note to GM: Leave the bull-nose look in Europe- it invariably looks like crap.

With all due respect, precious few of GM's North American products are little to write home about in the styling department - which is probably one reason why the rest of the world isn't inflicted with too many of them.

[Camino LS6]

With all due respect, precious few of GM's North American products are little to write home about in the styling department - which is probably one reason why the rest of the world isn't inflicted with too many of them.

Immaterial.

The bull nose look is an enforced ugliness we can avoid here - and we should.

Everytime.

[Guest aatbloke]

Immaterial.

The bull nose look is an enforced ugliness we can avoid here - and we should.

Everytime.

That should pretty much eradicate every SUV and pick-up truck sold over there, then.