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'Ford Posts Surprise Profit'

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Mullaly=smart

RW=dumb

GM's Board should be ashamed of themselves. Ford was a complete mess, with little new product to speak of, and their recovery plan is taking shape, whereas GM is still floundering.

Unbelieveable.

I don't know how accurate this is, but from what I've read GM's corporate culture largely hasn't changed. Mulally has completely overhauled Ford and basically told those who don't follow the plan to get with it or get out. Morale at the company is way up because employees feel like someone is finally listening to them.

Take Zeta into account...they spent so many R&D dollars only to basically cancel the program. Then they spent so much time developing a new Cadillac V8 and it gets canceled. What's with all the waste? Make a plan and stick to it.

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While I agree with the fact that some people in GM need to be shown the door, I think the culture inside the company HAS changed and I also believe that GM is a lot different than Ford.

GM is a much bigger task than Ford. However, GM doesn't seem to know how to make a decision and not second guess itself 3-4 times.

That said, I have been predicting for a long time that Ford would be a force to be reckoned with in under 5 years. This is only the beginning.

GM was doing decent until CAFE came along and they made a bunch of ignorant decisions. If GM does kill Zeta, it'll ben the 90's all over again. GM will have a bunch of nondescript FWD $h!boxes (That don't fit this market well, like the Opels of the 90's) and we'll once again be reading articles of Ford possibly overtaking GM if they keep growing. (Yes, the media once said that about Ford, not too long ago)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Blue Oval Breakdown:

North America: For the first quarter, North America Automotive operations reported

a pre-tax loss of $45 million, compared with a loss of $613 million a year ago

South America: For the first quarter, Ford’s South America operations posted a

pre-tax profit of $257 million, up from $113 million a year ago.

Ford Europe: For the first quarter, Ford Europe pre-tax profits were $739 million,

up from $219 million a year ago.

Volvo: For the first quarter, Volvo reported a pre-tax loss of $151 million,

compared with a profit of $94 million a year ago.

Asia Pacific Africa: For the first quarter, Asia Pacific Africa reported a pre-tax profit of $1 million,

compared with a pre-tax loss of $26 million a year ago.

Mazda: Ford earned $49 million from its investment in Mazda and associated operations

in the first quarter, compared with $21 million a year ago.

Other Automotive: Other Automotive, which consists of interest and financing-related costs,

accounted for a first quarter pre-tax loss of $181 million. This included net interest expense of $472

million and favorable fair market value adjustments of $291 million, primarily related to the impact of changes in exchange rates on intercompany loans.

Ford Motor Credit Company: Ford Motor Credit Company reported net income of $24 million in the first quarter of 2008, down $169 million from earnings of $193 million a year earlier.

Automotive gross cash, which includes cash and cash equivalents, net marketable securities and loaned securities, was $28.7 billion at March 31, 2008, a decrease of $5.9 billion from 2007 year-end levels. The decrease was consistent with our plan and primarily reflects implementation of the initial part of our VEBA agreement with the UAW.

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However, GM doesn't seem to know how to make a decision and not second guess itself 3-4 times.

That said, I have been predicting for a long time that Ford would be a force to be reckoned with in under 5 years. This is only the beginning.

case in point, Ford has a on overhauled mustang due to compete with camaro soon, an overhauled fusion due soon, and overhauled taurus that is better positioned to take on camry and accord on the higher end while offering more spaciousness and hopefully amenities as well to stay innovative. they have a new focus coming within a year or two. they have a brand new entry level fiesta which will steal thunder from chevy's aveo, fit, and yaris, unless all those cars are dramatically redesigned soon. they have a brand new explorer coming soon, and best of all a premium RWD sedan being readied, that could feasibly form the basis of elegant and luxurious executive sedans at Lincoln. GM on the other hand is mostly waffling on many product decisions, forgetting how to make Cadillac luxurious and feasible under CAFE. meanwhile, ford has also shown steadfast desire to compete with the introduction of ecoboost and other green tech.

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One thing I have to wonder and still to this day wonder is why Ford never replaced the LS on an updated version of the platform? It's platform-mate, the new XF certainly has garnered praise.

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One thing I have to wonder and still to this day wonder is why Ford never replaced the LS on an updated version of the platform? It's platform-mate, the new XF certainly has garnered praise.

Jaguar could use the platform, and update it, due to the pricepoint that Jags sell at. The platform was very expensive, and was designed to be a Jag platform to begin with. At the prices the LS was demanding, they were losing money on it. You cannot sell a Lincoln at Jag prices............. at least not yet.

It just wasn't good money.

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One thing I have to wonder and still to this day wonder is why Ford never replaced the LS on an updated version of the platform? It's platform-mate, the new XF certainly has garnered praise.

The XF is on the DEW98 platform??

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The XF is on the DEW98 platform??

I think it's an updated version of DEW98. They original wanted a SWB version of the XJ's aluminum platform for the XF but it was too costly. I hope someone else can verify this.

----

Enzl... Ford is still posting a loss in North America, which was the reason why you dismissed GM's previous profit announcements... "NA is the world's largest car market and they can't turn a profit in it" was along the lines of your tone. Why are you giving Ford a free ride? They're mortgaged up to their ears. Profitability isn't going to help much unless it's in the billions. GM's still in better shape in many ways than Ford.

I wish Ford the best, but there are several problem left to be addressed. Selling Jaguar, LR, & AM shouldn't have been necessary.

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After seeing the new Taurus 2008 Focus I believe there's hope for Ford yet.

:rolleyes:

LOL j/k

basically, Mulally is 'this is what we are doing. if you do not like it, there is the door'.

actually, what is allowing ford to move ahead is that they don't have so many legacy models which attract people's neccessary predispositions.....

i.e. 'the corvette has to be this, the camaro has to be this'

Not that i think the Flex will be huge, but honestly, would GM build a Flex? Although GM is trying the G8 ST and such.

GM has so much baggage from its fanboys that it restricts them from really breaking out I think. More so from a management aspect.

Edited by regfootball
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Enzl... Ford is still posting a loss in North America, which was the reason why you dismissed GM's previous profit announcements... "NA is the world's largest car market and they can't turn a profit in it" was along the lines of your tone. Why are you giving Ford a free ride? They're mortgaged up to their ears. Profitability isn't going to help much unless it's in the billions. GM's still in better shape in many ways than Ford.

I wish Ford the best, but there are several problem left to be addressed. Selling Jaguar, LR, & AM shouldn't have been necessary.

Firstly, they've done more with way less. Second, many posters have been crowing about GM's product renaissance and imminent return to profitability.....My position was that it was too little product turnover to make a huge difference and didn't anticipate a possible change in the economy or gas prices. Guess what? I was right.

What Mullaly has done in a short time is nothing short of miraculous. Imagine where Ford might be with some more product (Fiesta, new Taurus and Fusion, f150, MKS, updated Stang and 7 pass CuV with marketing money (Explorer)?

I've repeatedly called for RW's head-there's no chance of GM changing direction without a wholesale commitment to do so. I just don't see it happening.

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What Mullaly has done in a short time is nothing short of miraculous. Imagine where Ford might be with some more product (Fiesta, new Taurus and Fusion, f150, MKS, updated Stang and 7 pass CuV with marketing money (Explorer)?

I'll play.

Beat, Astra, Malibu, Aura, G8, GMT-900 Silverado, Ep-II Lacross, Camaro, Traverse....

But wait! There's more!

Lambdas @ 27mpg, Cobalt @ 36mpg, Malibu and Aura @ 32mpg, Vue greenline, BAS-II, new Delta MPV,

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Good For Them!

Any American Car Companies doing well is good. I will say that I'm a big fan of Mulally. I first became aware of him when he was at Boeing. He got the whole turnaround there well underway, oversaw the beginnings of the 787 and left them in good shape, I hold hope that he can do the same with Ford.

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case in point, Ford has a on overhauled mustang due to compete with camaro soon, an overhauled fusion due soon, and overhauled taurus that is better positioned to take on camry and accord on the higher end while offering more spaciousness and hopefully amenities as well to stay innovative. they have a new focus coming within a year or two. they have a brand new entry level fiesta which will steal thunder from chevy's aveo, fit, and yaris, unless all those cars are dramatically redesigned soon. they have a brand new explorer coming soon, and best of all a premium RWD sedan being readied, that could feasibly form the basis of elegant and luxurious executive sedans at Lincoln. GM on the other hand is mostly waffling on many product decisions, forgetting how to make Cadillac luxurious and feasible under CAFE. meanwhile, ford has also shown steadfast desire to compete with the introduction of ecoboost and other green tech.

Yeah, latest word is that the Mustang will beat the Camaro to market and that the Taurus has been fast tracked. Meanwhile, Chevrolet gets to watch the Impala die a slow death and then gets to compete with itself with both an EpII Malibu and EpII Impala that are roughly the same size. The Aveo is a joke and will be eaten alive by the Fiesta.

GM is killing it's RWD plans and homogenizing Cadillac with FWD platforms, no V8 and corporate V6 engines.

GM has made progress, but if they continue to wander around like a lost 3 year old at the supermarket, they're going to get eaten alive. Especially with the new CAFE and SUV/Trucks declining.

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Firstly, they've done more with way less. Second, many posters have been crowing about GM's product renaissance and imminent return to profitability.....My position was that it was too little product turnover to make a huge difference and didn't anticipate a possible change in the economy or gas prices. Guess what? I was right.

You were right? You ignore what you want and predict very little. By your own prediction, GM should have already declared bankruptcy.

I fail to see how your "prediction" about the Invicta concept has been accurate. Did it disappoint you as much as you expected? Readers still want to know how correct your pessimistic opinion was since you haven't posted in the Invicta topic yet.

Oh, and was your prediction correct about GM's several years of success in China? Or that after years of getting beaten up, VW would finally react with an onslaught of products?

Hmmm... How about GME turning around so well? Chevrolet's surge in Europe?

What about a prediction about GM's new Cobalt XFE?

Fuel sucking Trucks and SUVs? Toyota and Nissan were the ones that didn’t anticipate a possible change in the economy or gas prices. They were the ones who under estimated GM. Tundra has been an embarrassment with a brand new plant in San Antonio dedicated for production to puncuate that point. The followup one-two punch Sequoia debuted with heavy incentives. Nissan is dropping the Armada/QX56 and contracting out the next Titan to Dodge. GM has hybrids and diesels. Who failed to prepare for gas prices again? Who underestimated the market? Not GM.

Then there are the products Oldsmoboi mentioned...

You also FAIL to acknowledge that GM's product renaissance was partially delayed because of Ford's situation. GM agreed to allow Ford exclusive use of the FWD 6-sp automatics for a period of time before offering them. A good percentage of the transmission's engineering was paid by GM and performed on GM's side. So hand some that credit given to Ford back to GM.

Ford has sold almost half of their brand names, mortgaged everything, changed over leadership, and received extensive help from unexpected competitors. Ford didn't do this all by itself, and Ford hasn't been saved yet either.

I've repeatedly called for RW's head-there's no chance of GM changing direction without a wholesale commitment to do so. I just don't see it happening.

There's a prediction that has already been proven wrong. But you are correct in predicting it's not going to happen.

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Mullaly=smart

RW=dumb

GM's Board should be ashamed of themselves. Ford was a complete mess, with little new product to speak of, and their recovery plan is taking shape, whereas GM is still floundering.

Unbelieveable.

GM is doing very well... last quarter (oct-dec 07) GM had opperating profits of almost 4 billion.. if it werent for rescap GM would have been showing nice profits last year. as it was GM still posted 200 million dollar profit for the year of 2007 with rescap included.

I beleive, GM has a supprise to, otherwise, rick wagoner wouldnt have been able to convice the board to increase his pay.

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You were right? You ignore what you want and predict very little. By your own prediction, GM should have already declared bankruptcy.

I fail to see how your "prediction" about the Invicta concept has been accurate. Did it disappoint you as much as you expected? Readers still want to know how correct your pessimistic opinion was since you haven't posted in the Invicta topic yet.

Oh, and was your prediction correct about GM's several years of success in China? Or that after years of getting beaten up, VW would finally react with an onslaught of products?

Hmmm... How about GME turning around so well? Chevrolet's surge in Europe?

What about a prediction about GM's new Cobalt XFE?

Fuel sucking Trucks and SUVs? Toyota and Nissan were the ones that didn’t anticipate a possible change in the economy or gas prices. They were the ones who under estimated GM. Tundra has been an embarrassment with a brand new plant in San Antonio dedicated for production to puncuate that point. The followup one-two punch Sequoia debuted with heavy incentives. Nissan is dropping the Armada/QX56 and contracting out the next Titan to Dodge. GM has hybrids and diesels. Who failed to prepare for gas prices again? Who underestimated the market? Not GM.

Then there are the products Oldsmoboi mentioned...

You also FAIL to acknowledge that GM's product renaissance was partially delayed because of Ford's situation. GM agreed to allow Ford exclusive use of the FWD 6-sp automatics for a period of time before offering them. A good percentage of the transmission's engineering was paid by GM and performed on GM's side. So hand some that credit given to Ford back to GM.

Ford has sold almost half of their brand names, mortgaged everything, changed over leadership, and received extensive help from unexpected competitors. Ford didn't do this all by itself, and Ford hasn't been saved yet either.

There's a prediction that has already been proven wrong. But you are correct in predicting it's not going to happen.

First, reading comprehension:

1. Ford is doing it without real new product. GM is drowning despite great new product.

2. The Invicta hasn't been seen in production form....and I have commented previously that I don't think it's any great leap--it's an ES that will be sold at a discount to the ES and is a belated response, as the ES has been around for 15 years!

3. I never predicted a date for GM's bankruptcy..but I have repeatedly stated that this management team isn't up to the task of turning GM around--and I haven't been proven wrong yet.

4. GM Europe has been barely profitable, whereas before they lost money. If barely profitable is good enough--then mission accomplished there. Rebadged Daewoo's as Chevys isn't a great leap forward IMO. Keep in mind that a profitable Saab or upmarket effort (including BLS or US products sold there) has been an embarassment.

5. The mere fact that a company as dependent upon the large truck market as GM wasn't prepared for a fuel crisis with war raging in the Middle East & the BRIC countries expanding their fuel needs is a joke. If the comparison to Nissan or Toyota's mistakes gives you comfort, fine, but then you're not understanding that their failures may sting, but won't kill either company---GM doesn't have that luxury.

6. Ford made money. Period. A year ago, that would have been impossible, yet most 'experts' predicted that GM was better positioned. Despite Ford's mortgaging of all assets, they are paying their bills, making a buck---and aren't operating under the specter of a catastrophic strike interrupting production of crucial product--nor are they on the hook for Delphi or American Axle's shakedown.

And finally, GM giving Ford an exclusive right to the 6 speed auto is GM's fault, not Fords. Just another example of the lack of vision at the top. Just like Fiat, Isuzu, Subaru fiascos...Please feel free to lash out at me--it doesn't change the facts, nor does it make me wrong because I dare to not share your blind faith.

This is about lives, communities &, quite frankly, my future too. I'd think that a more critical eye might be appreciated. Oh well.

Edited by enzl
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Meanwhile, Chevrolet gets to watch the Impala die a slow death and then gets to compete with itself with both an EpII Malibu and EpII Impala that are roughly the same size. The Aveo is a joke and will be eaten alive by the Fiesta.

GM has made progress, but if they continue to wander around like a lost 3 year old at the supermarket, they're going to get eaten alive. Especially with the new CAFE and SUV/Trucks declining.

There's a new Chevrolet Aveo on Gamma II in CY2010 .The next Impala could be something very different from every other Impala from the past :AH-HA_wink: .

And while you is on the topic of 3 year olds. Its you which need to stop having a brain of a 3 year old.

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GM Europe has been barely profitable, whereas before they lost money. If barely profitable is good enough--then mission accomplished there. Rebadged Daewoo's as Chevys isn't a great leap forward IMO.

I hope you know that Daewoo and Chevrolet North America are becoming one, :AH-HA_wink: it started with the Aveo, and will continue with the new Cobalt next year.

The profit from Chevrolet Europe is consoildated with GM Daewoo in South Korea. Almost 51 percent of GM Daewoo(the number that GM owns of GM Daewoo) financial results are reflected in GM Asia-Pacific results.

Edited by Toyota.vs.GM
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