What did each car replace?

[LosAngeles]

1. Chevy Celebrity 2. Toyota Camry 3. Toyota Avalon 4. 95 Nissan 200SX 5. Ford Windstar 6. Mazda 323 7. VW Passat 8. Chevy Cavalier 9. Mitsubishi Eclipse 10. Ford Maverick 11. Ford Escort 12. Honda del Sol 13. VW Corrado 14. Chevy Monza 15. Chevy Citation 16. Olds Aurora 17. Geo Metro 18. Mitsubishi Diamante 19. Olds Achieva 20. Ford Taurus Except in one case, I didn't add the year, because it should be assumed I'm talking about the first year the name was used in the U.S. market Bonus: What was the Chevy Beretta meant to replace? And name the styling cue that gives that away.

[ocnblu]

ok, I'll bite.

1.Malibu
2.Corona
3.Cressida
4.Pulsar NX
5.Aerostar
6.GLC
7.411
8.Monza
9.Starion
10.Falcon
11.Pinto
12.?
13.Scirocco
14.Vega
15.Nova
16.Toronado
17.Sprint
18.?
19.Omega
20.LTD

Bonus: Monte Carlo. Same size as the N-body Somerset Regal/Calais/Grand Am, which I still believe were slated to replace Regal/Cutlass Supreme/Grand Prix, but were deemed too small.

[mjdecker]

12. CRX

[Variance]

Ocn got most of them but...

7. VW Passat

[post="34739"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wasn't the Quantum the Passat's direct predecssor?

[!!!TED!!!]

Ocn got most of them but...
Wasn't the Quantum the Passat's direct predecssor?

[post="34775"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes. :P

[bobo]

18. Mitsubishi Sigma

[s113]

19.Omega

Didn't the Achieva replace the Calais? Edited October 27, 2005 by s113

[03Yukon]

Didn't the 3000GT replaced the Starion and the Eclipse came out with its Chrysler buddies (Talon and Laser)? Edited October 27, 2005 by 03Yukon

[Robert Hall]

Ocn got most of them but...
Wasn't the Quantum the Passat's direct predecssor?

The Passat was called first the Dasher and then the Quantum in the US...it was always Passat in Germany and other markets, I think..

[Robert Hall]

Interesting path Chevy's names have taken over the years...the Celebrity replaced the Malibu, the Corsica replaced the Citation then itself was replaced by the ... Malibu. The Lumina replaced the Celebrity and then itself was replaced by the Impala. Flash back to the mid-60s to the early 80s, and the full-size Chevy was the Impala, and midsize the Malibu. 2006, it's Impala and Malibu again..

[Robert Hall]

12. CRX

Yes, and in fact, the Del Sol was called the CRX in some markets.

[Robert Hall]

Another interesting factoid is sometimes one car in effect replaces two---the Escort replaced the Pinto and Fiesta in the US, the FWD Cougar replaced the RWD Cougar and the Probe, and the Lucerne replaced the LeSabre and Park Avenue.

[bobo]

Didn't  the 3000GT replaced the Starion and the Eclipse came out with its Chrysler buddies (Talon and Laser)?

[post="34887"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'd say that the Eclipse replaced the Cordia, but there's a break between the two vehicles, the last Cordia being a MY '88, and the Eclipse coming out for '90. The Starion died after MY '89, and the 3000GT came out for MY '91.

[Robert Hall]

I'd say that the Eclipse replaced the Cordia, but there's a break between the two vehicles, the last Cordia being a MY '88, and the Eclipse coming out for '90.  The Starion died after MY '89, and the 3000GT came out for MY '91.

[post="34907"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wow...Cordia..haven't heard or seen that name in many years...wasn't their a sedan called the Tredia also? I guess the Mirage (or Galant?) replaced it... Edited October 27, 2005 by moltar

[bobo]

The stubby Tredia was the sedan version of the Cordia. The Galant was sold side-by-side with it, but then a new generation succeeded it, and the Sigma succeeded the Galant as the top-of-the-line sedan. Another forgettable Mitsubishi is the Precis, which was a badge job of the original Hyundai Excel.

[Robert Hall]

The stubby Tredia was the sedan version of the Cordia.  The Galant was sold side-by-side with it, but then a new generation succeeded it, and the Sigma succeeded the Galant as the top-of-the-line sedan.

Another forgettable Mitsubishi is the Precis, which was a badge job of the original Hyundai Excel.

I don't think I've seen any of those '80s Mitsus in ages... they all sort of dissapeared....about the only '80s Japanese cars I see with any frequency are Hondas and Toyotas..

[Sixty8panther]

1. Chevy Celebrity Impala? Malibu?
2. Toyota Camry Corona?
3. Toyota Avalon Cressida
4. 95 Nissan 200SX Pulsar
5. Ford Windstar Aerostar
6. Mazda 323 Ummm...  :huh:
7. VW Passat Jetta
8. Chevy Cavalier Chevette
9. Mitsubishi Eclipse Starion
10. Ford Maverick Pinto
11. Ford Escort Maverick
12. Honda del Sol CRX
13. VW Corrado Scirraco
14. Chevy Monza Vega
15. Chevy Citation Malibu
16. Olds Aurora 98
17. Geo Metro Chevy Sprint
18. Mitsubishi Diamante Sigma
19. Olds Achieva Cutlass Calais
20. Ford Taurus Fairmont/LTD

Bonus:  What was the Chevy Beretta meant to replace?  And name the styling cue that gives that away.
What the rear tail light assembly?... let's just say it was the "Probe" of the Chevy lineup.

[post="34739"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Edited October 27, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

I don't think I've seen any of those '80s Mitsus in ages... they all sort of dissapeared....about the only '80s Japanese cars I see with any frequency are Hondas and Toyotas..

[post="34913"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Which is why I love my Datsun so much. I naver thought I'd buy a Japanee car other than a Datsun 510 or some beater RWD sports coupe... but even though the Datsun is the first & only Japanese car I've ever owned it is by far the most eccentric and rare car I've bought yet. Compared to the Datsun my old '83 Firebird and even the '68 Camaro are very abundant in comparison. It would be kind of cool to "preserve" it untill like 25 years from now just so I can take it to car shows and have people gawk at it and say WTH is that? I've never seen one of those in my life!

As much as I love the Camaro that'll never happen. Although a '59 Buick, '60 Dodge and 2nd gen Corvair 4dr. HTs are pretty obscure too. And way cooler.

[ocnblu]

Yup, I see I had several wrong answers.... working off my faulty memory with no research. For example, how could I forget the Tredia and Quantum? You guys are good! :P

[LosAngeles]

Answers: 1. Chevy Celebrity - Malibu (it was the new A-body) 2. Toyota Camry - Corona 3. Toyota Avalon - Cressida (funny, because I figured the GS was the actual replacement) 4. 95 Nissan 200SX - Sentra coupe (but the one car replacing two theory jibes as well if the NX is considered) 5. Ford Windstar - Aerostar 6. Mazda 323 - GLC 7. VW Passat - Quantum in this market 8. Chevy Cavalier - Monza 9. Mitsubishi Eclipse - this may have been a bad question, because I figured it a Starion replacement, but a case prob. could be made for 3000GT 10. Ford Maverick - Falcon 11. Ford Escort - Pinto 12. Honda del Sol - CRX (the Civic coupe was kinda considered the other) 13. VW Corrado - Scirocco 14. Chevy Monza - Vega 15. Chevy Citation - Nova 16. Olds Aurora - Toronado 17. Geo Metro - Sprint 18. Mitsubishi Diamante - Sigma 19. Olds Achieva - Cutlass Calais 20. Ford Taurus - LTD Bonus: The Beretta was considered to replace the Camaro..the styling cue that evolved from the Camaro was the taillight arrangement. It also shared the ducktail deck and hood carving. The dragstrrip crowd obviously wasn't havin' it, so the Camaro stayed.

[the_yellow_dart]

How do you figure the Aurora was a Toronado? I heard it was a 98... as well... I thought the L-bods (Corsica/Beretta/Tempest) were failed J-body replacements???

[Croc]

Many people say the Aurora replaced the Toronado even though there were 4 years between the two simply because the Aurora was on the same platform as the Riviera and had a rear that paid homage to the Toronado. Frankly, I think it's weak. A sedan does not replace a coupe AFAIC and since the 98 and Aurora overlapped for only one year with the Aurora taking over the flagship position of the mainstream sedan lineup (not the niche coupe market) that is really replaces the 98. Toronado was killed for extremely low sales, and a replacement was therefore not necessary or desired IMO.

[z28luvr01]

Bonus:  The Beretta was considered to replace the Camaro..the styling cue that evolved from the Camaro was the taillight arrangement.  It also shared the ducktail deck and hood carving.  The dragstrrip crowd obviously wasn't havin' it, so the Camaro stayed.

[post="34976"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Beretta actually gained quite a following in its own right. Chevy marketed the hell out of it and gave it a boatload of performance/appearance packages. That was one GM car from the early 90s that I was sad to see go.

[ocnblu]

My mom had an '88 GT V6/5 speed, light blue. It was a very nice little car... and you couldn't beat the sound (for the class) of the little 6.

[Croc]

Slightly OT: What if Chevy moved the Monte RWD Zeta and kept the Impala FWD (let's be honest...it's selling VERY well as is) and kept an Impala coupe and named it Beretta?

[bobo]

How do you figure the Aurora was a Toronado? I heard it was a 98...

as well...

I thought the L-bods (Corsica/Beretta/Tempest) were failed J-body replacements???

[post="35012"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Aurora really wasn't a replacement for any particular vehicle, though it filled the spot in Oldsmobile's lineup as the flagship. While the outside of the car is big, the interior is tight--it's more of a mid-size than a full-size like the 98. I'd say that the replacement for the 98 was the 88 Regency.

The L-bodies were based on the J-bodies, but it wasn't a replacement for it.

While the Beretta had Camaro styling cues, I don't think it was ever meant to actually replace the F-body. There was another program for the FWD Camaro, the GM80, which used a plastic skin over a spaceframe like the Fiero and Saturn SL, but costs spiraled out of control and the program was canceled.

[knightfan26917]

Nice list, LA ... while I didn't post any replies, I had a few correct ... but, sadly, not many :(.


Hmm...irony of ironies.

Malibu (RWD) replaced by Celebrity (FWD) which was replaced by the Lumina (FWD) which eventually spawned the current "monte carlo" (FWD).

Meanwhile, the current FWD "malibu" was the replacement to the Corsica (Beretta was it's "sister" car ... but the coupe was dropped for the 1997 model year with the current "malibu" debuted).

What a tangle web we weave....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[Robert Hall]

Many people say the Aurora replaced the Toronado even though there were 4 years between the two simply because the Aurora was on the same platform as the Riviera and had a rear that paid homage to the Toronado.

Frankly, I think it's weak.  A sedan does not replace a coupe AFAIC and since the 98 and Aurora overlapped for only one year with the Aurora taking over the flagship position of the mainstream sedan lineup (not the niche coupe market) that is really replaces the 98.

Toronado was killed for extremely low sales, and a replacement was therefore not necessary or desired IMO.
[

I would argue the Aurora replaced the Toro as the Aurora was the flagship of the brand in same sense that the Toro was (regardless of the number of doors). The Aurora was a definite change of direction for the brand, much more of a sporty luxury sedan than the staid 98 (which was pretty much redundant with the 88 by then). Edited October 28, 2005 by moltar

[Croc]

But the 98 was the flagship after Toro was dropped. Sure, Aurora was sporty while 98 was soft and cushy, but the same can be said about different generations of vehicles...the 94-99 Devilles were far more wallowy than the 2000+. Just because the car's character is different doesn't mean it doesn't replace it in a lineup... The Aurora was a luxury/near-lux vehicle at Olds. So was the 98. The 88 Regency was only offered for I think a year...hardly a replacement as it was just an 88 with the 98 front clip.

[Robert Hall]

But the 98 was the flagship after Toro was dropped.  Sure, Aurora was sporty while 98 was soft and cushy, but the same can be said about different generations of vehicles...the 94-99 Devilles were far more wallowy than the 2000+.  Just because the car's character is different doesn't mean it doesn't replace it in a lineup...

The Aurora was a luxury/near-lux vehicle at Olds.  So was the 98.  The 88 Regency was only offered for I think a year...hardly a replacement as it was just an 88 with the 98 front clip.

There was a gap in time between the Toro and Aurora, certainly, but each filled the same role in the lineup (stylish flagship--the 98 was just another regular sedan in the line). Anyway, it's all a moot point since Olds is dead.

[steamer]

Aurora wasn't meant to replace anything, as I knew from my former sources. It was originally meant to ultimately replace the Oldsmobile name with such. As I understand it was met with great dealer resistance, one reason GM pulled the plug.

[Sixty8panther]

Aurora wasn't meant to replace anything, as I knew from my former sources. It was originally meant to ultimately replace the Oldsmobile name with such. As I understand it was met with great dealer resistance, one reason GM pulled the plug.

[post="35613"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

wow, never heard that before. strange. Remember like 5 years ago when all these magazines were reporting that Corvette was going to break off from Chevy and be it's own brand with several sports cars, coupes & sedans. I was convinced someone at MT/GM or both was doing Crystal Meth.

[Flybrian]

Aurora replaced Toronado in spirit and replaced the 98 as Olds' flagship in '95 when it debuted. Originally, the 1995 Aurora was going to be called 'Toronado' before the new name/image was chosen as part of the restructuring plan. This fits for several reasons: 1) Aurora continues the Toro's position as the Olds technological, performance, and styling leader; Ninety-Eight was never about new technology or performance as such. 2) Aurora is trimmer and slimmer inside and out - as Bobo said - thn the Ninety-Eight. 3) Before fully realized, Intrigue was meant to be called 'Cutlass Supreme,' providing more evidence that Olds wanted to carry on the traditional naming structure and positions of the cars. Also, the Ninety-Eight was very much replaced by the Olds Regency, which was simply and Eighty-Eight with all the options and a chrome grille. By Aurora's debut, Ninety-Eight became totally irrelevant. One can even argue that The '97 Buick Park Avenue was also a Ninety-Eight successor as well as the Park's.

[capriceman]

17 Sprint Metro

[razoredge]

Ho boy ! The Aurora didnt replace the Toronado ? Because it had four doors ? I heard that once before. Impressive how some people can count so well. Does this mean the 86 Delta 88 was really not a Delta 88 ? Then what happend in 92 when it was no longer available in both a two door and four door, it probably wasnt even a car by that time. I guess this also means the GP isnt really a GP but rather something beamed down from the Twilight zone. Then in all reality the 88 bodied Regency was simply a way of using up old stock Regency interiors and chrome grills. The '99 Eighty Eight 50th Anniversary I had used a Regency interior from at least as far back as 97. I dont recall all the details. I think they were using up bumper covers and side mouldings that had a different kind of ribbing than the 97+ Eighty Eights as well. I never saw either the Park Ave or Regency as anykind of flagships. When there was no Toronado or Aurora or no Riviera there were no flagships. The divisions were barron. Just as Buick is now and will be until Buick designs and builds a flagship.

[LosAngeles]

You know, Razor? This weird hatred/misunderstanding of four-door cars reminds me a lot of how the musclecar crowd thinks. Like only two-door cars have the right to be considered worth anything.

[razoredge]

You know, Razor?  This weird hatred/misunderstanding of four-door cars reminds me a lot of how the musclecar crowd thinks.

Like only two-door cars have the right to be considered worth anything.

[post="36124"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well complete hatred of four door cars would be more, bias, mostly closed minded. [but then I have that for imports, now adays anyhow] It would present a good case, from a styling perspective, back 20 some years when a four door car had "family" "sensible" "dont want to stand out" or "worried about what the neighbors think" writtin all over it. People were much more conservative, like my Father and Grandfathers for instance. It really was because of the greenhouse on those older cars. Myself I do not care for many of the old 4 dr cars at all. A few of the hardtops are interesting but the top line on a 2dr would always be sportier. Then take a 1st gen Stang, I dont like any of them except the fastbacks, I'll walk right past them at a car show, they just dont interest me.

However in the 90's they threw that all to the wind and started using a more fastback greenhouse on sedans. Also cars were just naturally becoming more streamlined and therefore looking sportier. The only difference say in a two or four door GP was the lenght of the door and location of the B pillor, from any other angle or without focusing on the line between the doors no one would see a different car. I went for the LSS (Eighty Eight) body style because of the greenhouse, its sleek, sporty, where as the LeSabre or PA or 98 have that conservative upright cap look to them and no Auroras or Riviera were available plus its got that L67 B). Otherwise we would be driveing just a plain Eighty Eight LS. That LSS just happened to be on the lot at that time and I knew why......sold !

Aurora was a pretty sporty looking ride, in my eyes. When sat beside its cousin the Riviera it would be apparent that the Riv was a sleek and sporty looking 2dr. but both cars portray the same class and character, just as Riviera and Toronado always shared.

However.....think of the possibilities to reworking an Aurora into a even sharper 2dr sedan :o , better yet how about a 2dr hardtop, with thicker C pillor, smaller rear window :o

Even the Toronado org. recognized the Aurora into its realm. Their gone now and I dont see much about Aurora on the new Toronado site but its new yet.

Whats this topic about :unsure: :lol:

Oh, well, none of those other cars were worth talking about :P Edited October 30, 2005 by razoredge