GM brings back employee pricing to sell remaining 2008 models

[rivieraranch]

I've been to 3 dealers; drove 3 Lacrossse

Supers and an '07 Lucerne CXL V-8.

Shopping under this promotion is difficult indeed. One dealer tried to add junk fees; I walked. Another tried to strong arm me to take GMAC financing, promising they would absorb my remaining lease payments (approx $1,000.00). I was told that the $2,000.00 bonus for turning in the GMAC lease early required the buyer to take GMAC financing on the new vehicle.

Does the $2,000.00 bonus apply to a new 2007?

Edited August 31, 2008 by rivieraranch

[CARBIZ]

No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

Well, I've said this before: it's a different world south of the border. BTW, I was mystery shopped in March by an internet lead and my example was held up in front of the GMDA meeting as an example of excellence. They want us to do a sales pitch and give prices for finance, cash, etc. for EVERY quote. I am not new at this, but replying to internet leads is a huge waste of time and I think the dealers should boycott them all.

My previous dealer was involved with AutoByTel about 9 years ago and because I was the only person with computer skills then, I got sucked into doing all of them. I remember in December 2000, as an experiment, I set up a template on my computer to expedite my replies so that I had a grid with the vehicle requested, options, and leasing/financing options all spelled out. I sent out 80 repllies that month (all with $800 gross which was HALF what we would have normally accepted in those days) and sold ZERO vehicles. I gave the portfolio back to the manager and we cancelled our association with AutoByTel. Even if I'd sold one or two vehicles, the amount we would have made, the running around with dealer trades and the nightmare those types of customers are in real life (nitpick over everything), it just isn't worth it.

Believe me, it's not my attitude, it's the attitude of the internet shoppers. And in case you haven't noticed, OC, many of them are on C&G: they could care less if the dealer makes a dime and most of them already have numbers from their dealer across the street and what they are looking for is something to browbeat them with. Look at it from the customer's point of view: they lose nothing. For 20 seconds on GM's website, they can get 15 dealers to jump hoops and work out leasing, financing and cash numbers on any number of vehicles - and I wager half the inquiries are not even seriously in the market! It's lose-lose for the dealers. We are quoting $600 gross deals over the internet now, no admin fees - nothing, and maybe selling 4 or 5 vehicles a month from it. What's the point? You don't think we haven't tried being cute and coy to lure them into the dealer? 90% don't have a phone number or address on their inquiry - what does that tell you? Mahybe I should move to Nevada, if your customers are stupid enough to be lured into the dealer without numbers first.

Case in point, I had an inquiry from Timmins Ontario (about an 8 hour drive north of the city) yesterday! WTF? Does he think I am that stupid? Is he going to drive 8 hours and spend $200 in gas to buy a Silverado? All he will do is take my numbers (in writing on the internet) and go to his local dealer and badger him with it. Frankly, what I plan to do is highball the guy so the dealer in Timmins can make some money. He has specifically requested 'my best price.' What's unequivocable about that? Do you think a sales pitch on the internet is going to work? He could give a f$#k about my dealerships high CSI standing, my 12 years in the biz or any other crap. He wants to steal the truck and would throw his grandmother in with the deal if it meant saving another $50.

It's a suckers game. We do all the work and get a flat deal, if we are lucky. Now, if the dealer wants to double our 'flats' and we'll just quote everyone at cost, well that's another matter!

[The O.C.]

Believe me, it's not my attitude, it's the attitude of the internet shoppers. And in case you haven't noticed, OC, many of them are on C&G: they could care less if the dealer makes a dime and most of them already have numbers from their dealer across the street and what they are looking for is something to browbeat them with. Look at it from the customer's point of view: they lose nothing. For 20 seconds on GM's website, they can get 15 dealers to jump hoops and work out leasing, financing and cash numbers on any number of vehicles - and I wager half the inquiries are not even seriously in the market! It's lose-lose for the dealers. We are quoting $600 gross deals over the internet now, no admin fees - nothing, and maybe selling 4 or 5 vehicles a month from it. What's the point? You don't think we haven't tried being cute and coy to lure them into the dealer? 90% don't have a phone number or address on their inquiry - what does that tell you? Mahybe I should move to Nevada, if your customers are stupid enough to be lured into the dealer without numbers first.

Case in point, I had an inquiry from Timmins Ontario (about an 8 hour drive north of the city) yesterday! WTF? Does he think I am that stupid? Is he going to drive 8 hours and spend $200 in gas to buy a Silverado? All he will do is take my numbers (in writing on the internet) and go to his local dealer and badger him with it. Frankly, what I plan to do is highball the guy so the dealer in Timmins can make some money. He has specifically requested 'my best price.' What's unequivocable about that? Do you think a sales pitch on the internet is going to work? He could give a f$#k about my dealerships high CSI standing, my 12 years in the biz or any other crap. He wants to steal the truck and would throw his grandmother in with the deal if it meant saving another $50.

It's a suckers game. We do all the work and get a flat deal, if we are lucky. Now, if the dealer wants to double our 'flats' and we'll just quote everyone at cost, well that's another matter!

Did you at ALL read my post that you responded to?

I simply refuse to believe that internet shoppers in Canada are really any different than internet shoppers here in the States.

My whole point in my post was......that I've sold units.....and held decent gross......and made a nice paycheck for myself......and good profits for the dealership (at least complementary profits to what floor traffic brings in)......all on internet business.

It can happen.....can be successful.....can make the dealership money......and can give an internet salesperson a nice paycheck.

[CARBIZ]

Did you at ALL read my post that you responded to?

I simply refuse to believe that internet shoppers in Canada are really any different than internet shoppers here in the States.

My whole point in my post was......that I've sold units.....and held decent gross......and made a nice paycheck for myself......and good profits for the dealership (at least complementary profits to what floor traffic brings in)......all on internet business.

It can happen.....can be successful.....can make the dealership money......and can give an internet salesperson a nice paycheck.

And I've categorically stated that that is not the case here. Nobody I know who works the internet leads makes money at it. Even the used cars have to be advertised with a heavy discount just to get people to respond.

If you read my reply, General Motors in Canada wants us to give the customer ALL the information on our reply: prices, payments, features - everything. Most people never bother to reply once they have what they want and most of our internet 'leads' have no address or phone number to follow up with.

How is one supposed to sell the dealer and yourself with that type of customer? I'm glad that YOU are having success, but the only sales my present dealer, my last dealer, or any of the people I know in the business are having is when they literally give the vehicle away.

How could it be any other way, unless the customer is completely stupid? Blanket email 20 dealers (as one did just last week on an Aveo) and sit back to let them eat each other alive.

Besides, the 'average' dealer around here is only selling 50-60 new vehicles a month. Big, big difference than in the States, wouldn't you say? The hay-days of the car business in Toronto are long gone. The top dealer in the city only sells 140 a month - and they have P-B-GMC and Cadillac to draw on.

[The O.C.]

If you read my reply, General Motors in Canada wants us to give the customer ALL the information on our reply: prices, payments, features - everything. Most people never bother to reply once they have what they want and most of our internet 'leads' have no address or phone number to follow up with.

Well, I say "EFF" GM......if I'm an independent dealer, I'm not going to "drop my pants" over the internet and give the customer all pricing and payment info over the 'net.....

Of course there will always be those certain customers that you HAVE to quote prices to......but as the dealer (or internet manager) I'll be the one to make that decision on whom I'm going to quote to that extreme.....I'm certainly not going to let General Motors dictate to me how I manage my internet leads......

[ocnblu]

Have any of you guys been told if the promotion has been extended? I might have a bite on my truck, I just need more time. Oh, and I also put my name on a list at "my" dealership to drive an '09 Fit Sport Manual, they got their first shipment of '09s in today, all automatics, tragically. If GM's flailing, backpeddling and broken promises continue, I might see Fit to jump ship.

[gm4life]

I am an internet shopper now and wouldn't do anything but that when I am having a hard time finding what I want or on a tight budget and an extra 500 can make or break my deal. I have my local dealership I have my cars get serviced and have bought there a few times when I a have the extra in my budget. But the last two times I had no choice but to do an internet deal as finding a Torrent stripped from 2007 in 2008 was very hard. I also wanted cruise and the 17inch wheels. I am sure the dealer didn't make much off me if I would have just bought the Torrent there but they made a killing on my trade I know because they sold my GP the next day for 1K and they gave me 250 for it. They over doubled there profit. I don't feel like a bad buyer or an evil person not wanting to pay more than what I have to for something. I just asked for the lowest price on the Torrent and it was very resonable and smoothered on the GM card earning (2K maxed out) **came out of GM's pocket** and my trade and bought the car. My previous internet deal didn't work out as well the dealer high-ups were jerky not the salesmen. As finding a slightly pre-owned or new Cranberry Red or White Bonneville SLE without a sunroof and leather and chrome wheels proved hard to find. Both those times I didn't need a vehicle and was tight on cash so I did the best I could on the prices and over the internet allowed me to do that. Next time I plan to go to my local dealership and give them my buisness. They know as a small dealer I told them what I paid for what I got and they say "John I can't touch that price and I don't blame you for buying it there"... "Were always happy to service them" that is where Till's makes there money. Listen I look on autotrader but I don't ask for quotes unless I am looking and I always call them not an email.

[BuddyP]

No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

Bingo!

Salemen need to simply not act like "salesmen", and act more like customer service reps. There IS a reason saleman have such bad reputations. While there are some good ones out there, most are clueless about the product and the competiters product. Most will hardly let YOU get a word in. The best saleman is one that is a GOOD LISTENER. I couldn't tell you how many times I had to correct a salesman on thier own product that I was looking at.

In the past I remember going into a used car dealership after I was told a price on the lot, when sitting inside I could not get a word in, they kept talking right over me and got into telling me about another car they had on another lot. I asked about the car on the lot for the price he told me, he then says "I can't sell that to you at that price".... yup, just a ploy to get me inside the office. Before I knew it the saleman slid a paper over to me and asked me to sign it, and when I acted confused about what just happened he turns to the manager and says "I don't understand, we have just what he's looking for". Are you kidding me? And we are supposed to lighten up because ya got it hard? I wonder why? Why would they even have the perception that a person would sign a buyers agreement on a vehicle sight unseen?!

These type of poorly trained salesman are bad for GM, or any car manufacturer. A non brand loyal shopper will never thing to buy that brand again if they have these types of experiences. I've said it before and I'll say it again... GM should have more control over their dealerships.

Edited September 3, 2008 by BuddyP

[MyerShift]

Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

[longtooth]

Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

There's a lotion that'll take care of it but you'll still have warts in that area.

[CARBIZ]

Well, I say "EFF" GM......if I'm an independent dealer, I'm not going to "drop my pants" over the internet and give the customer all pricing and payment info over the 'net.....

Of course there will always be those certain customers that you HAVE to quote prices to......but as the dealer (or internet manager) I'll be the one to make that decision on whom I'm going to quote to that extreme.....I'm certainly not going to let General Motors dictate to me how I manage my internet leads......

It's not a matter of GM dictating anything: it's what they recommend. Five years ago, every sales seminar we got packed off to taught us a million ways to stay off price. Joe Verde is one of the industry's biggest hacks. I have been to see him (forced at gun point, I might add) 3 times over the past 12 years. Every time one of his clowns say "I used to be on the floor.." I want to spit!

(If you were so successful, why aren't you still selling cars, bub? Oh, that's right: you're getting paid more to sucker our dealer principle into paying your organization $1,500 apiece to send us to snore through your seminars for 30 hours!)

Now, GM has changed their tune and they 'recommend' we give everything the customer asks for. Okay. But if 8 other dealers are replying to the 'request,' what are the chances of actually making a sale? ZERO.

OC, I am not sure what you are considering internet customers. Up here, there are a myriad of ways a customer can contact us: directly on GM Canada's website, through GMAC pre-approvals (those are about the only internet customers that are worth replying to - but naturally the managers divy out those with great care!), through 3rd party contacts like AutoTrader (very big up here) or by replying directly to the dealer's website. There is another method, via kiosks and shows that GM puts on - most of those are total garbage: some innocent Joe at a 'kite fest' fills out a form for a 'free car' and then we get stuck with cold calling him because his postal code is in our area. The GM Canada 'queries' are mostly garbage to. Those range from a 15 year old dreaming about the price of a Corvette, to some bored postal employee at their desk wondering how much a Traverse will be when his Corolla lease is up in 3 years.

GM (and the dealership) rightly expect us to treat them all the same, because there is no way of knowing which ones are total garbage and which ones are truly 'in the market;' however, to quote them at full list or even decent gross is just another waste of time, because likely this is not the only query they are making. Let's face it, if there is no return phone number, no address of any kind, there is little hope in establishing any type of relationship. There is no point in pitching the vehicle, pitching the dealer, pitching my 12 years in the biz, etc. because this type of customer does not care. Like I said about the guy from Timmins the other day - why would he drive 8 hours each direction to come see us? Clearly he only wants numbers to beat up his local dealer. The only good thing about these internet customers is that IF (that's a big 'if') they actually show up, it's a done deal because they have the best price. Although, I've had some of those want to hammer away at a $500 deal on a Malibu.

GM is the party that benefits the most. Since we are not paid until we sell something, it greatly benefits GM to have us running around in circles, giving out quotes left and right for no gross, because whether we make money or not, GM doesn't give a crap.

Since I am told GM is below 10% market share in the GTA these days, and since the Toronto economy in general is in the toilet, GM dealers are dropping like flies around here (about 10 have closed in the past 3 or 4 years) and since P-B-GMC not only has more models to sell, but more models that Torontonians like (Vibe, Acadia, Sierra,) Chevy dealers are bearing the brunt of the downturn. BTW, most of the dealers that have closed around here are Chevy stores.

We are told that Toronto is a 'mature' market, which means they don't give a frack about buying 'domestic.'

And all that is fine, but as my fellow professionals are now making HALF what they were 5 years ago, many are considering getting out altogether. If GM (and the dealers) expect 'professionals' who can keep on top of the whimsical changes of GMAC and the frequent gyrations of model changes, understand and empathisize with our customers AND work every weekend for the rest of our lives, they are going to have to find another way other than the current commission structure to keep said professionals.

Oh, yeah - and GMAC stopped leases a month ago. 40% of my portfolio was from leasing.

[regfootball]

I've been buying from salespeople who cater to me on the phone and email for the last close to 10 years. my 99 prizm i found on GM buypower and consummated the deal via email with the internet sales guy at the chevy dealer back then. since then, emails and a phone call or two is all you need. figure out your fair price like stang said, tell them you are serious, give them an offer. OC sounds like a guy i would do business with. He sees that my time and being direct and to the point are important.

The T Rex i bought a couple weeks ago. My 500 i got from the dealer by my house because the salesguy was cordial, and took care of any concern i wanted and was quick and consistent with keeping in touch with me via email. He left, so i tried to do business with another salesman there.....but he didn't 'get it'. Unresponsive, and was more interested in serving his needs than mine. When i saw also like OC said that the leasing was not going to even come close as an option this time around I started used hunting. I found a unit online and called the dealer. Within a couple hours i had been contacted via phone and email, and the sales guy promised to follow up with me as i wish. The next morning i got skittish on missing out on a good deal and i drove up and bought the car. The whole thing was consumated via email and couple phone calls that morning. The financing was done in an hour or so and i could have even driven the rig home that day. Point being, the sales guy made it convenient for me and was very can do and pleasant and non pressure, yet made sure to let me know he would work with me in the most expedient and electronically convenient way possible.

I didn't want to spend all day dicking around with a new flunkie trying to hear him painfully recite some vehicle features he thought he knew from reading the brochure.

For close to ten years now i buy vehicles from internet guys or salesguys with email and internet savvy. they understand what i want and how i want it. i don't need to be stuck with the rube who is on the floor just to fill a quota for bodies on the floor. that makes me NOT want to buy the car from that person.

[A Horse With No Name]

Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

I'm kinda thinkithe same thing about VW, although I'd like at least one GM vehicle in the fleet...(Solstice Targa anyone?)

Chris

[Oracle of Delphi]

GM extended this program until September 30, 2008, and it includes 2009 models.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[BigPontiac]

GM extended this program until September 30, 2008, and it includes 2009 models.

And yet GMC.com only lets me locate 2008 vehicles, brilliant!

[rivieraranch]

I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

Edited September 4, 2008 by rivieraranch

[Oracle of Delphi]

I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

2007 models are not included in this program, so it would be up to you to haggle with the dealer and come to a price you both can agree on. Make an offer you feel comfortable with, then see if the dealer bites.

[daves87rs]

I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

Well, I think a good offer off would still get them to take it....

They can't sell the Lucys that they have now...

I can't see why 30% would work....couldn't hurt to try....

[rivieraranch]

Well, I think a good offer off would still get them to take it....

They can't sell the Lucys that they have now...

I can't see why 30% would work....couldn't hurt to try....

That's true, come to think of it. I see a lot of '08 Lucernes still in stock on the west coast of Florida, where there are a lot of what you could call traditional Buick customers. There are nice colors, too, red, gold, etc., not just white or gray cars like the post office would buy.

I am going to work my way north from South Florida and try making a deal on an '07. The first dealer who decides not to be a jerk about this will make a deal. If they were reasonable they wouldn't have any of these '07's in the first place.

[daves87rs]

That's true, come to think of it. I see a lot of '08 Lucernes still in stock on the west coast of Florida, where there are a lot of what you could call traditional Buick customers. There are nice colors, too, red, gold, etc., not just white or gray cars like the post office would buy.

I am going to work my way north from South Florida and try making a deal on an '07. The first dealer who decides not to be a jerk about this will make a deal. If they were reasonable they wouldn't have any of these '07's in the first place.

Yep. Hopefully you find one...

[rivieraranch]

Yep. Hopefully you find one...

Today I was quoted 27% off of MSRP on a 2007 Lucerne CXL V-8 from a dealer a scant 150 miles from me.

[rivieraranch]

The employee pricing on the 2008 is not really a good deal because the 2009 models are already out. Once this stupid event is over anybody should be able to negotiate a better deal on a 2008 than they would right now.

[daves87rs]

You can always wait a bit longer....

[rivieraranch]

You can always wait a bit longer....

I am waiting now. If on October 1st, GMAC decides to increase its pull ahead program from 2 months to 5 months then I would owe nothing. In the meantime I have already identified several vehicles that are available and will probably remain so.