Not recommending GM cars anymore

[avant1963]

Short story.

Friend needs a new car. Wife wants Nissan. He wants GM. I recommend a 2009 Malibu.

100 miles and Malibu is dieing. Goes into Limp-home mode on the NJ Parkway. Dealership not too sure what happened or what's wrong.

Sorry GM. I can't recommend your vehicles any more. My 2006 G6 was the worst car I ever owned and my 2006 Malibu just had the radiator replaced for a leak at 24,000 miles. That on top of the 4 other times I needed to go to the dealership with the Malibu. The 2009 Malibu is supposed to be the new GM, and chances are my friend got the one lemon in 10,000, but I still feel like an ass for recommending it.

Hate to see you go, but have fun in bankruptcy.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Well $h!, that sucks for your friend I really feel for him. Maybe he'll get lucky and it'll get "Lemon Lawed"- keep us posted.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Short story.

Friend needs a new car. Wife wants Nissan. He wants GM. I recommend a 2009 Malibu.

100 miles and Malibu is dieing. Goes into Limp-home mode on the NJ Parkway. Dealership not too sure what happened or what's wrong.

Sorry GM. I can't recommend your vehicles any more. My 2006 G6 was the worst car I ever owned and my 2006 Malibu just had the radiator replaced for a leak at 24,000 miles. That on top of the 4 other times I needed to go to the dealership with the Malibu. The 2009 Malibu is supposed to be the new GM, and chances are my friend got the one lemon in 10,000, but I still feel like an ass for recommending it.

Hate to see you go, but have fun in bankruptcy.

I feel the same way. Not for reliability issues, but for every other boneheaded move GM makes.

[toesuf94]

Not to sound like a Kool Aid Drinker, but have you thought that maybe your friend got some bad gas or something that caused the limp mode to kick in?

I need more information as to why the car went that way!

[Croc]

I'm with toesuf on this one--more info needs to be obtained.

As for the G6...well, I've been pretty vocal on my feelings of that car on this site. Caveat emptor.

[avant1963]

Seeing that it's whatever gas the dealer put in, have no idea. The car isn't a week old yet.

He's going to call me when they finally make a decision what is wrong. So far it is either a throttle body or a main computer or both.

[Croc]

Hmmm. That's odd, but the new Malibus certainly don't have a bad rep, so hopefully this is a one-time problem, and he has many happy years of driving to look forward to.

[Drew Dowdell]

4-cylinder or 3.6?

Both engines have been pretty well shaken down.... I'm surprised to hear this.

[avant1963]

4 banger/6 speed

They replaced the computer. He said they called GM, and that was were they think the problem came from. We'll see if it happens again.

No matter what, my confidence has been shaken.

[Croc]

4 banger/6 speed

They replaced the computer. He said they called GM, and that was were they think the problem came from. We'll see if it happens again.

No matter what, my confidence has been shaken.

Honestly, I'd much rather have a car that needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. And a bad computer? Those are rare, and an easy fix. Keep us updated; I'm not easily impressed, but I have only one complaint about the new Malibu: no rear seat armrest. Other than that, no flaws I can find.

[regfootball]

my friend gushes about his 09 malibu company car.

[ShadowDog]

Bum luck?

I mean, these things will happen to a few people out there, regardless of the manufacturer. On the flip-side, we also own a runabout 2004 Chevy Optra5 developed through GMDAT out of Korea. You can start thinking up your horror stories, but the fact is the car hasn't visited the dealership for anything mechanically wrong (knock on wood). I'm guessing there are significantly more better-running Malibus out there than there are ones in your situation. These things happen?

[hyperv6]

Well I have two 08 Chevys with nary a problem quality or other wise.

I had one TSB done on the HHR at my request where GM did a quality upgrade for the power brakes on the turbo engine with a electric vacuume pump. Brakes are at full boot now at start up after sitting for days. The same upgrade is available for the Solstice and Sky Turbo.

The other is a 08 3.6 Bu and it has been flawless for my mom. I never thought I would like the car but I love driving it more than my 04 GTP.

Nissan dealers also have service department and they also have new cars in getting thing fixed too. They are far from the Maytag man. Right now you may think the grass is greener over there but it is no greener.

Edited March 7, 2009 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

If only the folk who had transmission failures, cracked frames or engines sludged --or any number of other defects & shortcomings-- would stop recommending toyotas.

[hyperv6]

If only the folk who had transmission failures, cracked frames or engines sludged --or any number of other defects & shortcomings-- would stop recommending toyotas.

Ah you forgot the Tundra crank failures! That was a good one.

[cletus8269]

dont forget the wildcard steering and acceleration problems

[Sixty8panther]

Wow... sad day indeed when this is posted on a GM forum.

Sadder day still when it's posted by the founding member.

If only the folk who had transmission failures, cracked frames or engines sludged --or any number of other defects & shortcomings-- would stop recommending toyotas.

Damn straight.

[Satty]

Last time I recommended a GM, they bought an Acura instead. And the Acura has treated them very, very well.

I dont try to force my acquaintances into a purchase because, frankly, thats a dick move. If they ask my opinion, I'll give it, and if they ask about my experiences with new Toyotas, they'll get it. I've had no problems with the Prius or any of the Tundras I've driven at work.

[Intrepidation]

I can't blame him for not waiting to recommend GM anymore. He's had 3 bad experiences in a row now. Whether this one is just a lemon, a fluke, or not it's still very frustrating.

[Intrepidation]

Wow... sad day indeed when this is posted on a GM forum.

Sadder day still when it's posted by the founding member.

Damn straight.

It's even sadder that in this day, when GM is supposed to be having the best quality it's very had that avant1963 has had to deal with quality problems 3 times on 3 different cars.

But it's not GM's fault right? Let's just keep pointing figures and making excuses as to why this is OK.

If I bough 3 new Chryslers and every one of them had problems, especially within a week of purchase, yeah I'd be feeling the same way.

[ocnblu]

My '03 ION went back to the dealer like 6 times in the 9 months I had it. My '04 Colorado went back twice for very minor issues over 3 years. My '07 Sierra went back because the carpet at the transmission tunnel area was bunched and wouldn't lay flat. My '09 Cobalt has not been back to the dealer for anything yet, 4600 miles so far.

[01Malibu]

I recommend GM trucks. And the Buicks and Cadillacs. Some of the base Chevy's such as Aveo and Cobalts get poor marks as does Equinox. Impalas. Grand Prix, Lacrosse and Lucerne get good marks according to Consumer's reports. You have to look at the averages and not one bad experience in choosing a car. Nissans have very poor reliability also. Do a YAHOO search of "Ill never buy a Nissan again". Interesting.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I recommend GM trucks. And the Buicks and Cadillacs. Some of the base Chevy's such as Aveo and Cobalts get poor marks as does Equinox. Impalas. Grand Prix, Lacrosse and Lucerne get good marks according to Consumer's reports. You have to look at the averages and not one bad experience in choosing a car. Nissans have very poor reliability also. Do a YAHOO search of "Ill never buy a Nissan again". Interesting.

The Impala is just fine... If CR has a problem they can see me about it.

[Blake Noble]

Walt isn't the only one who's had to deal with G6 issues -- when we had ours, it was constantly in the shop for problems with the steering system. GM's electronic steering system is true junk. And our Impala before that, well, I'm certain the transmission was ready to buy the farm before we traded it off.

Our Aura has been reliable so far, however, knock on wood.

And I'm disappointed that my Sonoma is beginning to deteriorate at only 118,000 miles.

GM's never going to build 'em as good as they built my '72 Cutlass again.

[Croc]

Again, not to be insulting, but with regards to the G6: you DID test drive it and research it prior to buying/leasing it right? You weren't one of Oprah's "winners," right?

The G6 does not have that quality feel to it. I would expect it to be a POS. The new Malibu, on the other hand, would surprise me if it had widespread problems because it actually seems like a great little car.

So no, it isn't that it isn't GM's fault, I just don't think the comparison is valid. On the one hand, you have the 2003 Malibu and G6, which have been eviscerated in almost every car review they have been in, and then you have the new Malibu, which has received near-universal praise. Two completely different situations, IMO.

[vonVeezelsnider]

So no, it isn't that it isn't GM's fault, I just don't think the comparison is valid. On the one hand, you have the 2003 Malibu and G6, which have been eviscerated in almost every car review they have been in, and then you have the new Malibu, which has received near-universal praise. Two completely different situations, IMO.

It's kinda funny how things work out, I suppose it's hit and miss sometimes... an elderly friend has a 2003 Malibu and she loves it, wouldn't dare trade it for the new one; go figure.

[Croc]

It's kinda funny how things work out, I suppose it's hit and miss sometimes... an elderly friend has a 2003 Malibu and she loves it, wouldn't dare trade it for the new one; go figure.

Well, since he/she is elderly, my guess is that money is an issue, and it just isn't practical to trade in for a new car every 5 years, especially for senior citizens. I would be floored if the reason your friend wouldn't dare to trade in had anything to do with a perception that it's somehow junk.

[daves87rs]

As far as Walt's issues, the his malibu issues(06) surprise me, as I know many people with the 04-07s Bu's, and expect for my cousin's 05 Maxx (bought it used though), nar a peep with any of them.

As for the G6, I'm not surprised. There is a reason you can pick up 3 year old G6s loaded up for like 8995. Way to many issues from the GTP down. Kinda makes me glad that the G6 won't be around much longer, as they can hardly sell them now.

Sad part is, I'm hearing this from ALL MAKES AND MODELS. I've got stories from pretty much everyone, I guess...so much for car being better made today...

[daves87rs]

Again, not to be insulting, but with regards to the G6: you DID test drive it and research it prior to buying/leasing it right? You weren't one of Oprah's "winners," right?

The G6 does not have that quality feel to it. I would expect it to be a POS. The new Malibu, on the other hand, would surprise me if it had widespread problems because it actually seems like a great little car.

So no, it isn't that it isn't GM's fault, I just don't think the comparison is valid. On the one hand, you have the 2003 Malibu and G6, which have been eviscerated in almost every car review they have been in, and then you have the new Malibu, which has received near-universal praise. Two completely different situations, IMO.

I'm going to agree with Croc on this one....

[daves87rs]

This generation Malibu has only been out a couple of years. Seriously, what did you expect?

Not really an excuse though....

[daves87rs]

My '03 ION went back to the dealer like 6 times in the 9 months I had it. My '04 Colorado went back twice for very minor issues over 3 years. My '07 Sierra went back because the carpet at the transmission tunnel area was bunched and wouldn't lay flat. My '09 Cobalt has not been back to the dealer for anything yet, 4600 miles so far.

Ocn , I think pretty everyone had to take their ION back for something...just sad...

[vonVeezelsnider]

Well, since he/she is elderly, my guess is that money is an issue, and it just isn't practical to trade in for a new car every 5 years, especially for senior citizens. I would be floored if the reason your friend wouldn't dare to trade in had anything to do with a perception that it's somehow junk.

It's certainly not a perception of junk...

[Oracle of Delphi]

Do you know which plant built the car? Was it Lake Orion or Kansas City? I've learned over the years not to buy any GM vehicles built in Michigan. I've always had bad luck with any GM car built there, so now I avoid those plants like the plague ...

Edited March 8, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[CMG]

I can't blame him for not waiting to recommend GM anymore. He's had 3 bad experiences in a row now. Whether this one is just a lemon, a fluke, or not it's still very frustrating.

We have three of our six recent GM work vehicles in and out of the shop with troubles, one of them is MINE! Arghh!

I had a transmission go when the van was less than a year old, at least it was covered under warranty.

We had a 3/4 ton truck see it's engine disintegrate on the highway, the engine was eventually replaced under warranty but our dealership TRIED to get out of it.

My wipers fell apart on Thursday, I took off the plastic cover, the wiper arm pivot bracket is held on with two terrible quality looking screws.

I mean WAS held on.... lol

To be fair my sister owns a Camry, she pushes imports like no tomorrow, and hers not only burns ALOT of blue but it has broken down in front of my house a couple of times.

[Intrepidation]

Cars are very, very complex these days, so things like a computer being defective is bound to happen. 3 bad experiences is a row just makes it frustrating.

[Croc]

Cars are very, very complex these days, so things like a computer being defective is bound to happen. 3 bad experiences is a row just makes it frustrating.

True, but I would much rather have a problem involving a sensor, or a computer, than something like a defective mechanical part, you know? With a software issue, it's generally confined, but with hardware--well we all know a blown headgasket often requires much, much more than just a replacement gasket.

[toesuf94]

And I must add that we have had a bad experience with a brand new GM car, and it was fixed very quickly. Brand new Buick Rendesvouz threw a valve in the 3.4 at the 700 mile mark. Onstar told me not to drive it, but I did - right back to the dealership (about three miles) and hammered on it because I was pissed! Turned out to be a broken valve spring and that car was bulletproof from that point on. But honestly, in all of the new GM cars we have owned, that is the first problem that was what I would deem extreme. I was pissed when the intermediate shafts kept going out of the steering sectors of the GM trucks we have had. The safety was not a concern, but the annoying feel of something rattling in the steering sector really pissed me off.

Here is the truth about cars guys: Cars are designed and built by human beings. Humans are flawed creatures, so it makes sense that the products they make are also flawed.

I think about this every ime I fly on a plane, and I hope that the mechanic that put the pin in the motor during the inspection wasn't fighting with his girlfriend or getting over his hangover from the party yesterday...

I have said it many times, but the reason I continue to ONLY BUY GM cars and trucks is that not ONE TIME in over a Million miles has a GM left ANY MEMBER of my family stranded on the side of the road. That cannot be said for Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Jeep, or BMW - all of which have had to be walked away from or towed into a dealer for unexpected repairs.

[Satty]

I've had two GMs leave me stranded. Both were Saturns, one was a major electrical bug at 25k, the other was the fuel pump at 60k.

Only time any other make has left me stranded was after a wreck.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Satty

[Robert Hall]

The only car that ever truly stranded me was my '87 Mustang GT.. had to have it hauled home on a flatbed 3 times in '98 (water pump, radiator, fuel pump). With only 55k miles. Made me swear off Fords for a while. (though I kept the car and it now has about 64k miles).

The M3 never stranded me, just nickeled-and-dimed (well, $500/1000) me as it got older.

My Jeep has never really stranded me, though the battery did die in my driveway 4 years ago...which means I should get a new battery soon (with an AZ summer coming, you don't want an old battery).

Edited March 8, 2009 by moltar

[daves87rs]

Do you know which plant built the car? Was it Lake Orion or Kansas City? I've learned over the years not to buy any GM vehicles built in Michigan. I've always had bad luck with any GM car built there, so now I avoid those plants like the plague ...

Dude, don't make me come over there and kick your ass!

Don't forget D-ham, they still do well...

Sadly though, I've have to agree with the LO, i'm not sure what they are smoking over there...

Besides, I got to drive a Lucy for a while, and it didn't blow up on me...

[daves87rs]

I've had two GMs leave me stranded. Both were Saturns, one was a major electrical bug at 25k, the other was the fuel pump at 60k.

Only time any other make has left me stranded was after a wreck.

Was one an ION?

[vonVeezelsnider]

Was one an ION?

I recall him saying that they were both L-Series Before...

[fightingbee]

Was one an ION?

I'd bet the one w/ the fuel pump was an L. When I was a Saturn parts guy, my store stocked 5-6 L pumps at a time but had to order one for anything else if that says anything.

As for the Malibu, hopefully it's just a fluke. Statistically it at least used to be anything w/ a PCB in it usually goes out quickly or will likely last it's normal lifespan. The Mfrs. (not just GM, but everyone) constantly chasing cheaper labor and unit costs may have changed the game anymore though.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Dude, don't make me come over there and kick your ass!

Don't forget D-ham, they still do well...

Sadly though, I've have to agree with the LO, i'm not sure what they are smoking over there...

Besides, I got to drive a Lucy for a while, and it didn't blow up on me...

You mean like when GM has to shut down plants in Michigan on the 1st day of Deer season because nobody comes to work ??? Like that you mean ???

[daves87rs]

You mean like when GM has to shut down plants in Michigan on the 1st day of Deer season because nobody comes to work ??? Like that you mean ???

Deer season? What do you mean?

[saturnd00d]

The ION was one of the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned, and I've owned all GM vehicles except for one.

Yes the build quality was sub-par and the exterior design is questionable, but it was great to me, and in fact, the only reason I got rid of it was because I needed something bigger.

[David]

QUOTE (balthazar @ Mar 7 2009, 10:33 AM)

If only the folk who had transmission failures, cracked frames or engines sludged --or any number of other defects & shortcomings-- would stop recommending toyotas.

QUOTE (hyperv6 @ Mar 7 2009, 07:37 AM)

Ah you forgot the Tundra crank failures! That was a good one.

Do not forget about the front body frame cracks on the FJ cruisers.

Sadly, I see Toyota entering the same poor quality that GM has been ragged on about.

Over all, every year a differant manufacture seems to build a superior car. Every dog has it's day. Sadly some people just seem to always hit the bumps.

[GXT]

I can relate Avant... I grew up in a dodge family and wife brought GM's into the mix. I've been turned off of GM ever since I had the displeasure of suffering hers. That was 2000, and as far as I can tell GM has improved. But then I recall that in school the kids who got the "improved" awards were often dumb as bricks both before and after the award. GM is in absolutely no danger of becoming class valedictorian.

For the record, CR shows that the 99-03 are much worse than average reliability, 04 worse than average, and 05-08 average. Two of the areas that the new Malibu is showing problems is the "Fuel System" which includes the "engine computer" and the "Power equipment and accessories". Either of those could cover the repair mentioned in the original post. I know people like to blast CR, but they actually seem pretty accurate to me.

Also take note that according to the "quality" studies that GM and Ford are pushing, that Malibu limping home is equivalent in "quality" to when an owner feels the car's suspension is a little too stiff.

If 1 in 10 GM cars had major problems like these, then the odds of one owner having three different cars with three different major problems would be 1 in 1,000. If 1 in 5 cars, then 1 in 125 owners.

[GXT]

The G6 does not have that quality feel to it. I would expect it to be a POS. The new Malibu, on the other hand, would surprise me if it had widespread problems because it actually seems like a great little car.

So no, it isn't that it isn't GM's fault, I just don't think the comparison is valid. On the one hand, you have the 2003 Malibu and G6, which have been eviscerated in almost every car review they have been in, and then you have the new Malibu, which has received near-universal praise. Two completely different situations, IMO.

The problem is that you have associated perceived quality with reliability. Although that is what Ford (and to a slightly lesser extent GM) wants you to believe, of course there is no actual relationship. If you want examples that don't offend any pro-GM feelings, consider BMW, Mercedes, or VW... all of which seem to have excellent quality but have generally poor reliability.

Same goes for car reviews.

Edited March 10, 2009 by GXT

[CARBIZ]

This thread is a prime example of why I got out of the car business. Consumers today are way too demanding and expect perfection at every turn. A perfect example is the $h!ty quality rankings of MB over the past few years: nothing to do with their quality but everything to do with the me-first attitude of the yuppies that lease them.

If a vehicle has 24,000 parts and the vehicle is built to 99.99% perfection, then you are till going to have 2.4 defects. I guess one would hope it would be a faulty cigarette lighter or torn carpet in the trunk, but it with all the parts in a tranny or engine block, it is more likely to be there.

I am also guilty of over-reacting, but I do eventually put it in perspective. I screamed and yelled at HP before I left for Brazil because when I went to do a full system back up, my DVD burner won't work off the 1Care Systemall of the sudden. Sure, there are a dozen things I could try (like uninstall the DVD driver and re-install) but after paying $1,800 for this computer only 21 months ago, this is the 2nd problem I've had with it (the first was a new motherboard at 14 months, BTW.) Will I buy another HP? Sure I would. They were great on the phone and I know how complex computers have become, let alone a car.

But some people feel it makes their penis grow larger if they bad mouth a company from the rafters because their product DARED have a problem after they bought it. If you want to see conspiracies with every squeak or rattle, you will. I sympathise, but THAT IS WHAT WARRANTIES ARE FOR.