Poll: Where will Pontiacs sales go

[CaddyXLR-V]

To anyone whose brand of choice is Pontiac, currently owns a Pontiac, or plans to buy a new Pontiac within 3 years, what would your brand of choice be if Pontiac were to be killed today by GM?

My top brand after that would be BMW/Mini, then Nissan/Infiniti. I wouldn't buy another GM brand after that, and Ford/Chrysler don't interest me.

Edited April 8, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Camino LS6]

I voted Chrysler, but only because you framed the question with the word "today". That choice would be the Dodge Challenger.

I am actually quite unsure what will be next for me, except that lacking a miracle, it won't be from GM.

That is coming from someone who has always bought GM, and was committed to a new Pontiac prior to its cancellation.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I may have worded it poorly before. I fixed it so there will be less confusion.

[Robert Hall]

I would assume Avis would buy more Chevys and maybe some Buicks if they couldn't get Pontiacs.

[Camino LS6]

I would assume Avis would buy more Chevys and maybe some Buicks if they couldn't get Pontiacs.

A very cheap shot, Moltar.

[Robert Hall]

A very cheap shot, Moltar.

I know, but sadly, Pontiac has had an high fleet % of total sales for years now.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I would assume Avis would buy more Chevys and maybe some Buicks if they couldn't get Pontiacs.

Funny, I was looking for rental cars yesterday and all I could find was Chevys.

[Camino LS6]

I know, but sadly, Pontiac has had an high fleet % of total sales for years now.

Down quite a bit now that the GP is gone - that was a true fleet queen.

[regfootball]

truth is when GM shuts down saturn and pontiac, all that volume will go out the door. volume and share. japan and korea will get those sales.

VW is the only german brand that sells affordable cars. No one is going to ditch pontiac and buy even a 1 series. they can't even keep the price of those reasonable.

Edited April 8, 2009 by regfootball

[CaddyXLR-V]

truth is when GM shuts down saturn and pontiac, all that volume will go out the door. volume and share. japan and korea will get those sales.

VW is the only german brand that sells affordable cars. No one is going to ditch pontiac and buy even a 1 series. they can't even keep the price of those reasonable.

If I can't afford a BMW, I wouldn't mind a VW. There's also the people who can afford BMW's but might buy a G8 because it offers almost as much for a lot less money. They might buy the BMW if the G8 wasn't an option.

[Johnny Quest]

Sad, but when I was in Toronto a couple weeks ago, they had at least four spankin' new '09 G8's in the Avis fleet at the airport. (Not GT's though.).

[Camino LS6]

Sad, but when I was in Toronto a couple weeks ago, they had at least four spankin' new '09 G8's in the Avis fleet at the airport. (Not GT's though.).

The G8 is barely fleeted at all, not a real concern there.

[Chevy Nick]

The G8 is the only Pontiac I would buy. If Pontiac goes under, I would hope GM would re-badge it as a Impala or Caprice or something.

[Oracle of Delphi]

My dealer in Elkton Maryland found out I was home and sent me an e-mail saying just checking in and by the way we have 9 G8's in stock with 3 G8 GXP's ... I replied I'm sorry, I don't buy foreign cars built outside of North America & Europe ... His response was, the G8 is not Japanese ...

[Camino LS6]

Meh, you don't deserve one, PCS. :AH-HA_wink:

[CaddyXLR-V]

My dealer in Elkton Maryland found out I was home and sent me an e-mail saying just checking in and by the way we have 9 G8's in stock with 3 G8 GXP's ... I replied I'm sorry, I don't buy foreign cars built outside of North America & Europe ... His response was, the G8 is not Japanese ...

Too bad for you. My GTO is the best GM vehicle I have ever owned or driven, and drives like what an American car would have driven like if they haven't lost their way so many years ago. To me, it's a perfect blend between American and European driving characteristics. I would expect that the G8 is the same or better.

Edited April 8, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Robert Hall]

My dealer in Elkton Maryland found out I was home and sent me an e-mail saying just checking in and by the way we have 9 G8's in stock with 3 G8 GXP's ... I replied I'm sorry, I don't buy foreign cars built outside of North America & Europe ... His response was, the G8 is not Japanese ...

What is your beef against Australia? You are such an arse...

[Camino LS6]

Too bad for you. My GTO is the best GM vehicle I have ever owned or driven, and drives like what an American car would have driven like if they haven't lost their way so many years ago. To me, it's a perfect blend between American and European driving characteristics. I would expect that the G8 is the same or better.

I had the same experience in owning my GTO, and want more of the same.

[Drew Dowdell]

Mazda followed by Nissan followed by Chevy.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Maybe Chevy, but most likely Ford. (for which I voted)

[Blake Noble]

There will never be another Firebird, thus there will never be another car from GM I would buy.

Not even the Camaro.

As for another car to compliment/supplement it? The Mustang is the natural choice and while I would be happy owning one and driving one, a part of me would be slightly pissed off buying one.

Edited April 8, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[Intrepidation]

G8 buyers will likely head to Chrysler since they are the only company that provides a comparable vehicle.

The rest of them that aren't hung up on the badge will just head to Chevy.

Those who swear off GM because Pontiac gets killed will head probably to Ford or Chrysler.

[daves87rs]

For those who like their pontiacs discounted: Kia

For those who miss their pontiac: Honda

For those who don't give a $h!: Toyota

There are no other choices....

[balthazar]

Not sure; would have to go shopping. Likely something from either Buick, Chevrolet or Ford... or possibly ChryCo. More likely : gently used within the next 1-2 years. Wonder what G8 V6s will be retailing for then??

[CaddyXLR-V]

G8 buyers will likely head to Chrysler since they are the only company that provides a comparable vehicle.

The rest of them that aren't hung up on the badge will just head to Chevy.

Those who swear off GM because Pontiac gets killed will head probably to Ford or Chrysler.

I just can't bring myself to like the Chryslers though. I drove my brother's Charger, and I didn't like it. They all seem too tall, and truckish for my taste.

[Satty]

The G6 is quite the fleet queen these days.

For those who like their pontiacs discounted: Kia

For those who miss their pontiac: Honda

For those who don't give a $h!: Toyota

There are no other choices....

Sounds about right. Although I'd bet a few of those people who are fooled into thinking Pontiacs are sporty would go to Mazda and Nissan with Chevy picking up SS sales.

[CaddyXLR-V]

The G6 is quite the fleet queen these days.

Sounds about right. Although I'd bet a few of those people who are fooled into thinking Pontiacs are sporty would go to Mazda and Nissan with Chevy picking up SS sales.

Yep, I was fooled into thinking my GTO was sporty. But your right about Nissan, I could see myself in a new 350Z if there was no more Pontiac.

[Satty]

For every GTO, there are 1000 4cyl, automatic G6s that GM had to bribe people to buy.

[balthazar]

>>"Although I'd bet a few of those people who are fooled into thinking Pontiacs are sporty would go to Mazda..."<<

Mazda is quite the fleet queen these days. The '6' in Mazda 6 actually stands for fleet percentage.... times 10.

[Intrepidation]

I forgot to add that the ultra de hard fans will swear off new cars FOREVAR.

[Satty]

>>"Although I'd bet a few of those people who are fooled into thinking Pontiacs are sporty would go to Mazda..."<<

Mazda is quite the fleet queen these days. The '6' in Mazda 6 actually stands for fleet percentage.... times 10.

If people can be tricked into thinking the G6 is CAR or EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or whatever the hell Pontiac's slogan is this week, they can be tricked into Zoom-Zoom.

[daves87rs]

I forgot to add that the ultra de hard fans will swear off new cars FOREVAR.

Yeah, and they'll die off pretty quick too...

Heck, they think this is bad, just wait five years..

[daves87rs]

If people can be tricked into thinking the G6 is CAR or EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or whatever the hell Pontiac's slogan is this week, they can be tricked into Zoom-Zoom.

Not if they have driven one beforehand...

[Johnny Quest]

My wife told me I can't trade my G8 yet - it's too new. I told her, no problem. I'll wait for the Camaro Z28 with the 500+ hp. That's where the G8 owners will go. I'd say G8 owners are loyal to big RWD, in your face, vehicles - car guys....

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well, look at that...

The thread isn't even 2 pages old when someone comes in and starts insulting C&G's "second class citizens"

Yep... All those G8s, GTOs, Firebirds, Trans Ams, Catalinas, Solstices, Fierros, Supercharged Vibes, Bonneville SSEi, Firehawks, blah-blah, blah-blah.... THEY WEREN'T PERFORMANCE -or- EXCITEMENT (111!!!!!!11!11!)

Yep, we were all FOOLED into thinking they were exciting vehicles I just feel so f*cking stupid for believing the hype for the line of GXP vehicles, or listening to Car & Driver when they said the GP GXP was the best FWD performer ever made or loving the 6000 for it's forward thinking performance.

Damn, guys... Thanks for the wake up call. I'll be sure to hold the opinion of people who have probably never owned a V8 or performance car high on my list of next purchases. *wink*

FWIW, Mazda lost it's appeal when it started feeding all its models high dosages of Prozac.

Edited April 9, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Nick]

BMW of course!

Actually, I was joking when I picked that, but was very surprised when I saw 3 others had also voted for it.

[gm4life]

Toyota seriously.

[regfootball]

If I can't afford a BMW, I wouldn't mind a VW. There's also the people who can afford BMW's but might buy a G8 because it offers almost as much for a lot less money. They might buy the BMW if the G8 wasn't an option.

that too.

[gm4life]

truth is when GM shuts down saturn and pontiac, all that volume will go out the door. volume and share. japan and korea will get those sales.

VW is the only german brand that sells affordable cars. No one is going to ditch pontiac and buy even a 1 series. they can't even keep the price of those reasonable.

Sad to say but true.

[regfootball]

i want to see how the DI 3.6 (nee Camaro powertrain) implanted in the 010 G8 turns out. that, to me, will be a worthy blend of value and performance, if they hold the line on pricing for it. the g8 needs to be marketed more with the v6, even if the v8 is more desirable. right now, the g8 is only running on enthusiast fumes. when the economy picks up again, the g8 could be one of those cars that busts the sales doors open, if the pricing and product line is right.

what they should be doing with the g6 line, is cutting production and not fleeting out so many, then build more value v6 editions. or essentially the GXP spec cars with maybe a little less plush inside but at market reasonable prices. leave more of the 4 cylinder sales to malibu.

of course, i also think they should graft the pontiac nose on the aura body and make that the g6.

Edited April 9, 2009 by regfootball

[turbo200]

i've always been a fan of what pontiac stands for and past pontiac design excellence, but let's be real here, G8 and Solstice aside, pontiac is comprised of entry level transport that sells in large quantities to fleets. yes there are some retail buyers of the lineup, probably around 130k.......but those buyers came to Pontiac largely on the promise of cheap sales. aside from diehard pontiac fans, and those mostly would go more for a G8 kind of car at this point, people don't buy pontiac for perceived performance or perceived rebellious image or perceived good design sense. let's face it, there are companies out there doing the job better......accord v6 coupe comes to mind, mitsu evo/lancer, the whole mistu line, the mazda 3, etc etc...........

pontiac has been a work in progress since the aztek, but in the 90's they sold a lot more cars, and were pretty popular still, and cool. gran prix was the lynchpin, and back then grand am was a cool design even if it had cheap elements like all GM cars of the last decade. performance has not been something synonomous with mainstream pontiacs probably since the 80's rwd cars [except for the GTP line, largely out of reach for mainstream pontiac buyers]. pontiac was always about the mainstream, and offering a distinct and awfully mean alternative to chevrolet's casual aproachability. sadly, none of this has been realized in a quality mainstream car that can also be seen as cool in over two decades [g8 is the only one that's mainstream and kind of affordable]

so my bottom line point is there are only two pontiacs right now that are aspirational, the rest are just sort of "i settled because my dad wanted me to get it, and he said we got a good deal," and such.....

so the answer to the poll.....hyundai, ford, nissan, whatever other heavily discounted car is out there that's a little different, let's say.

[gm4life]

i want to see how the DI 3.6 (nee Camaro powertrain) implanted in the 010 G8 turns out. that, to me, will be a worthy blend of value and performance, if they hold the line on pricing for it. the g8 needs to be marketed more with the v6, even if the v8 is more desirable. right now, the g8 is only running on enthusiast fumes. when the economy picks up again, the g8 could be one of those cars that busts the sales doors open, if the pricing and product line is right.

what they should be doing with the g6 line, is cutting production and not fleeting out so many, then build more value v6 editions. or essentially the GXP spec cars with maybe a little less plush inside but at market reasonable prices. leave more of the 4 cylinder sales to malibu.

of course, i also think they should graft the pontiac nose on the aura body and make that the g6.

Some more really GOOD ideas.

[SAmadei]

My dealer in Elkton Maryland found out I was home and sent me an e-mail saying just checking in and by the way we have 9 G8's in stock with 3 G8 GXP's ... I replied I'm sorry, I don't buy foreign cars built outside of North America & Europe ... His response was, the G8 is not Japanese ...

Can you send me his info? I'd like to hear more about those GXPs... especially a blue or black one.

[SAmadei]

VW is the only german brand that sells affordable cars. No one is going to ditch pontiac and buy even a 1 series. they can't even keep the price of those reasonable.

That's not true. I like Pontiacs because of history and value. I would prefer to not spend $50K+ for a car, however, I want something compelling... and, after all, I'm in the market for a $40K Pontiac. Yikes! In Pontiac's absence, I likely would buy a BMW or, less likely, a Mercedes. Hence, my vote.

Chrysler would also be on the short list, but I'm not sure the Challenger will be around for long.

GM would be close to dead last. Sure, I'd consider the Camaro... however, GM has burned its bridges with me, after eating, breathing, living GM my entire life. No Olds. No Firebird. Hardly any RWD. No roomy cars. Hardly any coupes. The demise of Pontiac would be the final straw, and would earn GM an automota non grata status. I'll live my GM enthusiasm in the classics.

To be honest, as the GM news has gotten bleaker, I've been putting a lot more time into my existing "classics", as I think they might be the last of the breed. I'm seriously saddened. Its like a funeral that won't end.

[Daryl Z71]

I voted Chrysler, but only because you framed the question with the word "today". That choice would be the Dodge Challenger.

I am actually quite unsure what will be next for me, except that lacking a miracle, it won't be from GM.

That is coming from someone who has always bought GM, and was committed to a new Pontiac prior to its cancellation.

You wouldn't take the Camaro over the Challenger? Any reason besides GM cancelling the G8 ST?

[regfootball]

Some more really GOOD ideas.

and if the next gen astra were the next g4, also....

or honestly some form of the cruze with a better powertrain.......

g3, g5, VIBE all should go. i would get crucified for suggesting the vibe go, but.

i also feel the sky is generally more liked than the solstice but with the new targa and all the current solstice design should be allowed to live out its cycle.

if pontiac survives, any future roadster should be on alpha.

[regfootball]

That's not true. I like Pontiacs because of history and value. I would prefer to not spend $50K+ for a car, however, I want something compelling... and, after all, I'm in the market for a $40K Pontiac. Yikes! In Pontiac's absence, I likely would buy a BMW or, less likely, a Mercedes. Hence, my vote.

Chrysler would also be on the short list, but I'm not sure the Challenger will be around for long.

GM would be close to dead last. Sure, I'd consider the Camaro... however, GM has burned its bridges with me, after eating, breathing, living GM my entire life. No Olds. No Firebird. Hardly any RWD. No roomy cars. Hardly any coupes. The demise of Pontiac would be the final straw, and would earn GM an automota non grata status. I'll live my GM enthusiasm in the classics.

To be honest, as the GM news has gotten bleaker, I've been putting a lot more time into my existing "classics", as I think they might be the last of the breed. I'm seriously saddened. Its like a funeral that won't end.

your definition of affordable must be way diff from mine. most bimmers i know start closer to 40k. pontiac has never, and can never survive in that area.

[Camino LS6]

You wouldn't take the Camaro over the Challenger? Any reason besides GM cancelling the G8 ST?

Good question.

Yes, there are other reasons for me to choose Challenger over Camaro. I've never really been a "pony car" guy, I prefer the "musclecar" heritage. Yes, I loved my Firehawks, but my GTO was more like what I have always gravitated to in a car. The Challenger fits that bill more exactly than does Camaro.

Had Chevy done a new Chevelle (as was the plan initially), I'd be right there. I really like the new Camaro (and the Mustang for that matter), but a more mid-size coupe based performance car has always been the sweet spot for me.

So Challenger wins.

With all of that said, there is no real "gotta have" for me right now after the ST's cancellation.

I will wait and be content with what I have or can find in used/classic cars until something else is good enough for me to spend new car money.

What I won't do, is settle for anything less.

[regfootball]

camino, by the time you buy, there will prob be a used CTSv available for cheap

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

i've always been a fan of what pontiac stands for and past pontiac design excellence, but let's be real here, G8 and Solstice aside, pontiac is comprised of entry level transport that sells in large quantities to fleets. yes there are some retail buyers of the lineup, probably around 130k.......but those buyers came to Pontiac largely on the promise of cheap sales.

Okay, 1) I don't deny that the REAL Pontiacs are few and far between (thus my support for a niche line up) 2) I don't really see why customers being attracted to the DEAL are an issue... Hyundai and Kia make an entire business out of this. Not to mention, for the average buyer who just wants an appliance, OF COURSE the deal is going to be a big part of the equation.

aside from diehard pontiac fans, and those mostly would go more for a G8 kind of car at this point, people don't buy pontiac for perceived performance or perceived rebellious image or perceived good design sense. let's face it, there are companies out there doing the job better......accord v6 coupe comes to mind, mitsu evo/lancer, the whole mistu line, the mazda 3, etc etc...........

I'll give you the Mazda 3 and DEFINITELY Mitsu... But the Accord V6?!!? LOL.

pontiac has been a work in progress since the aztek, but in the 90's they sold a lot more cars, and were pretty popular still, and cool. gran prix was the lynchpin, and back then grand am was a cool design even if it had cheap elements like all GM cars of the last decade. performance has not been something synonomous with mainstream pontiacs probably since the 80's rwd cars [except for the GTP line, largely out of reach for mainstream pontiac buyers]. pontiac was always about the mainstream, and offering a distinct and awfully mean alternative to chevrolet's casual aproachability. sadly, none of this has been realized in a quality mainstream car that can also be seen as cool in over two decades [g8 is the only one that's mainstream and kind of affordable]

But we cannot expect Pontiac to be a volume division and embody the spirit of the G8. So, GM needs to make up it's mind one way or the other. My point is: Pontiac still has the potential to be both.