Poll: Where will Pontiacs sales go

[frogger]

I don't really have a brand of choice as my tastes and the quality produced by different brands tends to change over the years but I would guess a large chunk will go to Chrysler/Dodge.

[Northstar]

If I was out of college right now instead of in 1.5 years and needed a car, I'd probably be considering used A5s (though there are very few), used 335i (coupe), use Cayman S, perhaps a used Corvette, and probably the Camaro as well.

I guess that gives GM a 20% of me buying a car from them (Corvette would be used).

[CaddyXLR-V]

If I was out of college right now instead of in 1.5 years and needed a car, I'd probably be considering used A5s (though there are very few), used 335i (coupe), use Cayman S, perhaps a used Corvette, and probably the Camaro as well.

I guess that gives GM a 20% of me buying a car from them (Corvette would be used).

That sounds like the cars I will be shopping next time I buy a car, with the exception of the Cayman, I prefer the 911. Though by the time I buy any from my list, it's going to be new. I'm not buying for a while though, since all my money is going towards buying a business. If that's successful, I'm leaning heavily towards a new 911.

[Lamar]

Buick sales won't magically drop to zero in the US. In fact, with Pontiac and Saturn out of the picture, Buick might have a chance to actually grow.

This sounds all too familiar...

BTW, I vote Ford. A Taurus SHO in Atlantis Green is calling me in a couple of years.

[MyerShift]

And, also, in regards to me voting "Other" concerning Hyundai, it's because they offer the one car Pontiac definitely should... but doesn't, so I was looking at it from my point of view of brand and product offered.

And that the closest product Pontiac has offered that I like, the GTO, was a Commodore coupe and when new (and would still be) out of my price range, whereas the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is tangibly within grasp.

Edited April 11, 2009 by MyerShift

[regfootball]

Pontiac's problem has along been that the number of $h! piles, or cars that just don't belong with the "sporty/performance" image Pontiac represents, or fleet queens far out ways the cars that do, and have for the better part of 3 decades now.

So for Every G8 and Solstice you have a G3, G5, G6, Torrent

For every Firebird you had a Sunfire, Grand Am, Sunbird, Aztek

etc.

At least GMC has stood for trucks and innovation (Quadra Steer, Envoy XUV). Of course one could argue that it's being diluted now too, with the unibody Acadia which is basically the same as the Outlook, and now the Terrain....the unibody box that the new Equinox came in.

Buick has had a stodgy image for some time, and it's had plenty of half assed products, but the brand still has a premium image in the mind of many people...so it only has to work through the stodgy image in America. Over in China it's very successful.

Pontiac has opportunity right now and at least has customers who are not on life support.

Buick is only premium to the blue hairs right now. Buick is starting over too. A new Opel Skylark and Regal teamed with the LaCrosse, bring over the chinese park avenue and get going CHOP CHOP on the lucerne replacement (or at least refresh the thing and put a real motor and 6 speed in it) and maybe buick has hope.

Pontiac deserves to stay. there is no advantage to dropping pontiac unless you drop buick, and GMC with it.

Reducing to Chevy and Cadillac only means GM will be down to 12-13% share way too soon. When sales pick up in a year, and this thing takes off, still having BPG can only help GM.

[Cory Wolfe]

If I were in the market, which I'm not, and were shopping for a Pontiac, which I'm not, I voted 'other' because of Hyundai and their Genesis coupe. This wouldn't change in the case that Pontiac doesn't disappear, however, as they do not have a similar offering. Otherwise... Ford, Mini, Mazda, Honda, and VW are likely to find me in one of their showrooms in the event of this hypothetical situation.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Pontiac has opportunity right now and at least has customers who are not on life support.

Buick is only premium to the blue hairs right now. Buick is starting over too. A new Opel Skylark and Regal teamed with the LaCrosse, bring over the chinese park avenue and get going CHOP CHOP on the lucerne replacement (or at least refresh the thing and put a real motor and 6 speed in it) and maybe buick has hope.

Pontiac deserves to stay. there is no advantage to dropping pontiac unless you drop buick, and GMC with it.

Reducing to Chevy and Cadillac only means GM will be down to 12-13% share way too soon. When sales pick up in a year, and this thing takes off, still having BPG can only help GM.

Excellent post!

[Camino LS6]

Clearly, killing Pontiac is detrimental to GM.

So simple.

[Camino LS6]

Just took another look at the results, only Mitsubishi, Mercedes, and Buick, have no votes at all.

Interesting.

[ZL-1]

This sounds all too familiar...

BTW, I vote Ford. A Taurus SHO in Atlantis Green is calling me in a couple of years.

I'll take a guess: you're remebering when Olds was discontinued, right?

The difference is the remaning brands might actually get proper product this time around: look at the Cruze and the LaCrosse, for example. Add a possible Regal and Astra to Buick, and you have Chevy as the bottom brand and Buick as the upscale division, much like what Skoda and VW are here in Europe. Cadillac should (ideally) be in another league entirely going after Audi, BMW and MB, even if they do and Epsilon2-based DT7 (and I really, REALLY hope they don't).

Proper product at the remaining brands was what made the Olds phase-out a disaster IMHO.

Edited April 11, 2009 by ZL-1

[Lamar]

I'll take a guess: you're remebering when Olds was discontinued, right?

The difference is the remaning brands might actually get proper product this time around: look at the Cruze and the LaCrosse, for example. Add a possible Regal and Astra to Buick, and you have Chevy as the bottom brand and Buick as the upscale division, much like what Skoda and VW are here in Europe. Cadillac should (ideally) be in another league entirely going after Audi, BMW and MB, even if they do and Epsilon2-based DT7 (and I really, REALLY hope they don't).

Proper product at the remaining brands was what made the Olds phase-out a disaster IMHO.

As many have alluded to, though, Pontiac attracts several buyers (prospective and actual) because of affordability and a sporty image. The Buick of the near future will have none of that... nothing with the brute force of the G8 or the little-roadster-that-could Solstice. For the record, neither will Chevrolet. And the Cruze is pushed as the successor to the Cobalt, not the G5 (not that the difference between the two is so great, mind you ).

... and if they do price it down in order to take over Pontiac's place in the pricing hierarchy, then they bump heads with Chevy's higher trim lines (Impala-LaCrosse, Regal-Malibu).

[Northstar]

That sounds like the cars I will be shopping next time I buy a car, with the exception of the Cayman, I prefer the 911. Though by the time I buy any from my list, it's going to be new. I'm not buying for a while though, since all my money is going towards buying a business. If that's successful, I'm leaning heavily towards a new 911.

Funny that we would likely be looking at similar cars and we currently drive the same car...

I just happen to think the 911 is way overpriced, even as a used vehicle. There's a 2008 black on black Cayman S on ebay right now, no reserve with only 36 hours left in the auction and no bids for $41k (7k miles). MSRP was $67k. Most 911 S models are $25k+ more than the Cayman S.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Funny that we would likely be looking at similar cars and we currently drive the same car...

I just happen to think the 911 is way overpriced, even as a used vehicle. There's a 2008 black on black Cayman S on ebay right now, no reserve with only 36 hours left in the auction and no bids for $41k (7k miles). MSRP was $67k. Most 911 S models are $25k+ more than the Cayman S.

They are expensive, but I'm working towards the point where that won't be an issue. I have been lusting after one ever since I found a 99 for $19,000, and was ready to buy it, but found out my insurance would be $600 a month. The Cayman S is nice, but only has 320hp.

[Chicagoland]

Good question for all of C&G, who bought a brand new Pontiac in past few years? Those people should only be polled. Buyers of 10 year old Grand Ams dont count in new car polls.

[longtooth]

Just bought a G8 GXP.

Next I'd consider a Camaro SS or Z28 (should they build one) when the availability issue is 'fixed'.

It's been a long time since one could go onto the lot and just pick out an F-Body.

But by the time the shine wears-off of the G8 I might be considering a CTS-V coupe.

And this is from someone that up until a few months ago was dismissive of cars.

[edit] Link to a Huffington Post tribute article to Pontiac.

The comments are mostly sympathetic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-parker...omment_23530986

Edited April 26, 2009 by longtooth

[Camino LS6]

Good question for all of C&G, who bought a brand new Pontiac in past few years? Those people should only be polled. Buyers of 10 year old Grand Ams dont count in new car polls.

I certainly qualify.

In fact, C&G members have purchased more Pontiacs than any other GM brand except Chevrolet in the last decade.

We've done that poll.

Which, of course, makes all of the bull$h! poisonous hatred of Pontiac by loudmouths around here that much more annoying.

[prinzSD]

I have always bough Pontiac besides my Corvette. If GM goes ahead with killing Pontiac, then I have no more excuses and I will buy a BMW. With me it will be Oldsmobile all over again...they will lose a lifetime customer for good. At this point it is f*ck GM executives who ran the company into the ground, f*ck the GM employees who undermine GM for their own agenda (you know who you are), f*ck the John Q public for not giving Detroit a chance, and finally f*ck the car Czars and Obama for interfering with GM. Buy the time I buy my next car, their might not be an American auto industry and I will through my lot in with the ex Nazi BMW. Harsh words, but I am PISSED off!

[CaddyXLR-V]

I have always bough Pontiac besides my Corvette. If GM goes ahead with killing Pontiac, then I have no more excuses and I will buy a BMW. With me it will be Oldsmobile all over again...they will lose a lifetime customer for good. At this point it is f*ck GM executives who ran the company into the ground, f*ck the GM employees who undermine GM for their own agenda (you know who you are), f*ck the John Q public for not giving Detroit a chance, and finally f*ck the car Czars and Obama for interfering with GM. Buy the time I buy my next car, their might not be an American auto industry and I will through my lot in with the ex Nazi BMW. Harsh words, but I am PISSED off!

Be careful with that. Being passionate about a brand is frowned upon here. Other people here will think your behind the times or irrational, or your just not loyal.

Edited April 27, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[David]

I have always bough Pontiac besides my Corvette. If GM goes ahead with killing Pontiac, then I have no more excuses and I will buy a BMW. With me it will be Oldsmobile all over again...they will lose a lifetime customer for good. At this point it is f*ck GM executives who ran the company into the ground, f*ck the GM employees who undermine GM for their own agenda (you know who you are), f*ck the John Q public for not giving Detroit a chance, and finally f*ck the car Czars and Obama for interfering with GM. Buy the time I buy my next car, their might not be an American auto industry and I will through my lot in with the ex Nazi BMW. Harsh words, but I am PISSED off!

Be careful with that. Being passionate about a brand is frowned upon here. Other people here will think your behind the times or irrational, or your just not loyal.

Yup, those brands are dead, as an American, support your fellow citizen and buy from an American Company.

My heritage is German but I will never buy German, only American. Plus why would you want to buy a car from a company that charges $1500 for a basic service / tune up compared to about $500 for the same service from an American company.

As far as I am concerned, my CTS, SRX and Escalade ESV Platinum beats anything that BMW or Mercedes has to offer.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Yup, those brands are dead, as an American, support your fellow citizen and buy from an American Company.

My heritage is German but I will never buy German, only American. Plus why would you want to buy a car from a company that charges $1500 for a basic service / tune up compared to about $500 for the same service from an American company.

As far as I am concerned, my CTS, SRX and Escalade ESV Platinum beats anything that BMW or Mercedes has to offer.

I was being sarcastic. I am no longer buying American. I would consider Ford or Chrysler, but they don't have anything that interests me.

[Enzora]

Well, I'm of the opinion that even with Pontiac's demise, the market's still over-saturated and that the level of consumption has been unnaturally high over the past several years, so I wouldn't be surprised if those Pontiac sales don't go anywhere at all.

[Intrepidation]

I was being sarcastic. I am no longer buying American. I would consider Ford or Chrysler, but they don't have anything that interests me.

So what did Pontiac have? The only thing they have that Chrysler doesn't is teh Solstice. The G8 competes with the Charger and that was here first, with the new one due to be unveiled soon.

[SAmadei]

So what did Pontiac have? The only thing they have that Chrysler doesn't is teh Solstice. The G8 competes with the Charger and that was here first, with the new one due to be unveiled soon.

The Charger styling does not work for everyone. The Challenger is a beautiful car... but I can't believe it was designed by the same folks that made the Charger... since the Charger's front end and rear end design people apparently never compared notes until the car was on the show circuit.

As for someone complaining about $1500 BMW service visits... some of us still do our own service, so that's not an issue.

[Drew Dowdell]

As for someone complaining about $1500 BMW service visits... some of us still do our own service, so that's not an issue.

Try to do an oil change on a BMW.

[CaddyXLR-V]

So what did Pontiac have? The only thing they have that Chrysler doesn't is teh Solstice. The G8 competes with the Charger and that was here first, with the new one due to be unveiled soon.

I drove the Charger, and I didn't like it much. I didn't like the steering, how it handled, or the interior. It felt more like a Chevy than a Pontiac. It's how I would expect an Impala to feel. The G8, to me, is a notch above the Charger. I also feel like the Challenger would be a step down slightly from my GTO.

I will just need to get used to spending more money on the cars I want, because I'll need to step up into luxury brands like BMW to get what I want.

[Robert Hall]

Try to do an oil change on a BMW.

Not to mention BMWs usually have the service for several years bundled into the lease or purchase, so that's a non-issue. I think service may even be included in CPO deals. It's only when they get old and high mileage do BMWs (and Mercs) become money pits, as far as I've observed.

[aaaantoine]

Since I'm driving a Grand Prix, I am qualified to answer this question.

I was never strictly a Pontiac fan, so I'd probably just get a Chevy. We may go back to a small car -- but it has to be a 4-door now, so the young'n can get in and out easily. The Cruze looks interesting, and so does the Malibu. While I've actually considered a Malibu in the past, this time around they're actually attractive.

What worries me is that GM may never again make a car that is, IMO, as hot as the Solstice... At least not one that I can afford.

Edited April 27, 2009 by aaaantoine

[ponchoman49]

I voted Ford. So far most of my Chevy purchases have been underwhelming and have required costly transmission or intake gasket repairs plus there interiors are cut rate and I have yet to sit in a Chevy other than the pickup trucks with comfortable seats. Ford will be making my next car for sure as I feel they have done a far better job than the clowns running/ruining GM.

[SAmadei]

Try to do an oil change on a BMW.

Are you kidding me? After removing broken exhaust manifold bolts on a LT1, putting power steering fluid in a '99 Bonne, doing a Chevette starter (its on the top of the flywheel, not the bottom), and G3500 1 ton ball joints, an oil change on a BMW would be a breeze.

For the record, I am not a professional mechanic, just a lowly shade tree guy who reads Chilton, Haynes and Hollander for entertainment.

[prinzSD]

Yup, those brands are dead, as an American, support your fellow citizen and buy from an American Company.

My heritage is German but I will never buy German, only American. Plus why would you want to buy a car from a company that charges $1500 for a basic service / tune up compared to about $500 for the same service from an American company.

As far as I am concerned, my CTS, SRX and Escalade ESV Platinum beats anything that BMW or Mercedes has to offer.

The problem is I fear there will not be an American car company left when I buy my next NEW car. If Ford is around and they have what I want, then I will consider. As far as I am concerned, if GM survives survives and that is a big IF,

they have lost my loyalty. Apparently Cadillac will not have a V-8, the Camaro might not survive, the C7 Corvette is on hold...allsigns that GM will not survive to be a company whose cars will get my attention. An affordable, V8 powered rear wheel drive sedan or coupe with IRS are my minimum requirements for my next car. That will leave out BMW as well now that I think about it, as I will not pay 50,000 grand for a rear wheel drive, v-8 powered BMW.

[Drew Dowdell]

Are you kidding me? After removing broken exhaust manifold bolts on a LT1, putting power steering fluid in a '99 Bonne, doing a Chevette starter (its on the top of the flywheel, not the bottom), and G3500 1 ton ball joints, an oil change on a BMW would be a breeze.

For the record, I am not a professional mechanic, just a lowly shade tree guy who reads Chilton, Haynes and Hollander for entertainment.

I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just not your standard drain and fill.

[hyperv6]

Pontiac lost my sales last year to Chevy. The Solstice was not a year round winter car and I did not want a 4 door.

I wanted non V8 performance and had to look to Chevy and found it.

[Chicagoland]

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

[Z-06]

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

BMW, since that is the only car company which can replace the EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! lost and since PCS is now going to a new job at BMW (i.e. closing it) after he finished his job of closing Pontiac.

[Robert Hall]

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

Chevy..I would assume Avis will replace their GPs with Genericas..I mean Impalas.

[SAmadei]

Chevy..I would assume Avis will replace their GPs with Genericas..I mean Impalas.

Then once Chevy is heavily fleeted, GM management can claim unprofitability and cancel Chevy. Someone will get a raise for that idea.

[Oracle of Delphi]

BMW, since that is the only car company which can replace the EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! lost and since PCS is now going to a new job at BMW (i.e. closing it) after he finished his job of closing Pontiac.

Now do you really think I closed Pontiac? C'mon that was not my mission ... Pontiac died the day GM went to the Government for loans ...

I think I will be very happy @ BMW ...

Edited May 1, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[regfootball]

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

the hertz near my house i drive by frequently is always pretty much only toyota, hyundai, kia, mazda, and nissan these days.

[regfootball]

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

the hertz near my house i drive by frequently is always pretty much only toyota, hyundai, kia, mazda, and nissan these days.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Now do you really think I closed Pontiac? C'mon that was not my mission ... Pontiac died the day GM went to the Government for loans ...

I think I will be very happy @ BMW ...

That's the sad part. I think GM wanted to keep Pontiac, in some way, shape, or form, but the government just would not allow it. I will not buy from any automaker that is run, or even heavily influenced by our government.

It is starting to make sense to me now. If GM planned on killing Pontiac, why would they have left Pontiac in their original plans even as a niche brand?

Edited May 1, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Diehard GrandPrix Fan]

I messed up my vote. I was voting in a rush, and ended up voting for 'OTHER' instead of Chrysler.

My only favorite brand for GM still, is none other than Pontiac, even though what they have right now are craps except for maybe a Solstice and the G6 GXP(I know hate it due to its unusual styling, but I like it, since it is one of the only 2 North American made Pontiac). After Pontiac is done, my business to GM is also done. Uless they keep Pontiac, or resurrect it later, I won't be comming back to GM. My next car will either be a Dodge Challanger or a Charger.

[prinzSD]

Just took another look at the results, only Mitsubishi, Mercedes, and Buick, have no votes at all.

Interesting.

Exactly, and if GM thinks Buick will fill the void and I will go out and buy one...well GM is dreaming. I will not buy a Buick and I will not buy a front wheel drive Chevy. Plain and simple. For every turd GM gave Pontiac, there was at least one car I liked, Trans Am, GTO and G8. Had GM fine tuned the lin up instead of dragging POS like G5, G3, Azteks, Sunfires etc, the story might have been different. Perhaps other people would have considered Pontiac had it been more focused.

[prinzSD]

Now do you really think I closed Pontiac? C'mon that was not my mission ... Pontiac died the day GM went to the Government for loans ...

I think I will be very happy @ BMW ...

No but you sure enjoyed reminding us about it. How does a turncoat like you end up working at GM? Since your signature is a BMW, why do you not go over and work at BMW. Oh I forgot, they don't hire people who love to undermine the company they work for or at least cheer it's demise. You sicken me.

[GMTruckGuy74]

No but you sure enjoyed reminding us about it. How does a turncoat like you end up working at GM? Since your signature is a BMW, why do you not go over and work at BMW. Oh I forgot, they don't hire people who love to undermine the company they work for or at least cheer it's demise. You sicken me.

Ummm, he actually just retired from GM after 20 years and started working for BMW in Germany today...