I love Politics!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090405...ESS01/904050366

I say we close BG next.... Move the C7 to Wilmington.

Erich Merkle, a Grand Rapids, Mich.-based auto analyst, thinks Spring Hill could be jettisoned in favor of GM's newest plant in Lansing, Mich., which makes vehicles similar to the Traverse and has excess capacity to take over Spring Hill's current production.

The Delta Township plant in Lansing, which opened in 2006, makes three other crossover vehicles that are closely related to the Traverse — the GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave and Saturn Outlook.

So what's the deal?

Traverse axed? Traverse moved to Lansing?

If the Traverse is axed, wouldn't this make the case for GMC that much stronger. This is a segment where GM MUST have a volume entry. The Outlook is gone, and the Traverse seems to be on shakey ground.

That's also how U.S. Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., sees things. Last week, Corker said he's concerned that Spring Hill could lose out if the Obama administration chooses which plants to close based on how a state voted in last fall's presidential election. Tennessee went "red," with a majority of voters casting ballots for the Republican candidate, U.S. Sen. John McCain of Arizona.

That's funny... I didn't think Obama was in the business of running car companies. But apparently they can decide what plants to close? Remember; this is the government "For The People" err... "For The People That Voted For Us"

"It would be a shame for GM not to be able to meet consumer demand because they closed one of the plants. If they walk away from that plant, that would be a very strategic error," Cole said, "but in politics anything is possible."

But, we all know how good the government is at doing OR predicting anything... And anything bigger than a Delta car is... THE DEVIL!

Edited April 11, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[vonVeezelsnider]

I would read into this as the Outlook going away and perhaps GMC going away that they'd want to consolidate the Enclave, Escalade and Traverse to one factory.

[Croc]

This is only logical. Since Saturn may be sold off or spun off, the Spring Hill plant would probably go with it, and that would boost what GM could get for such a sale. It's more advantageous to sell plants than to shut them down.

And this talk about punishing states that went red...absolutely assinine. Anyone who buys into it is a partisan hack and/or conspiracy theorist.

[Robert Hall]

Well, since they are making the 3 other Lambdas in Lansing, it only makes sense to build the Traverse there also. Besides, Michigan needs the jobs more than TN.

Edited April 11, 2009 by moltar

[daves87rs]

Well, since they are making the 3 other Lambdas in Lansing, it only makes sense to build the Traverse there also. Besides, Michigan needs the jobs more than TN.

Very true.

[Camino LS6]

Closing either plant would be short-sighted and stupid.

[CSpec]

GM doesn't care which state "needs" jobs. There must be a clear profit motive for doing this, probably because of falling Lambda volume and the possible sale of Saturn as was mentioned above. That senator can go screw himself.

[PurdueGuy]

This is only logical. Since Saturn may be sold off or spun off, the Spring Hill plant would probably go with it, and that would boost what GM could get for such a sale. It's more advantageous to sell plants than to shut them down.

Saturn has no product to build at Spring Hill - all designs belong to GM, and are unlikely to be sold along with Saturn. A spun-off Saturn would have no capital to design a car to build at Spring Hill. Spring Hill has absolutely nothing to do with Saturn anymore, so there's no reason to think it would "probably" go with it. It's just a factory. If a potential Saturn buyer wants US factory space, GM could just as easily sell them any other plant that they can clear production out of.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Close Springhill, and move that vehicle to Lansing. GM should have done this from the beginning anyway. Close Bowling Green and move the Corvette to Wilmington along with Kappas ...

Delaware is a Blue state and the Vice President is from Delaware, my money is on Wilmington now ...

[Croc]

Delaware is a Blue state and the Vice President is from Delaware, my money is on Wilmington now ...

Perpetuating this farce serves no purpose other than to stir up $h! on the boards.

[Croc]

Saturn has no product to build at Spring Hill - all designs belong to GM, and are unlikely to be sold along with Saturn. A spun-off Saturn would have no capital to design a car to build at Spring Hill. Spring Hill has absolutely nothing to do with Saturn anymore, so there's no reason to think it would "probably" go with it. It's just a factory. If a potential Saturn buyer wants US factory space, GM could just as easily sell them any other plant that they can clear production out of.

Correct, but think about it for a second: if GM could sell off Saturn, and package it with a factory or two, whoever buys it would pay more since there are tangible assets in addition to the rights to the brand. Saturn IS GM, for now at least. But if GM moved the Traverse tooling to Lansing, there would at least be a factory to be sold off that whatever new entity could use for production, and GM would get more money for the sale. GM would also have one less factory to worry about.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Perpetuating this farce serves no purpose other than to stir up $h! on the boards.

It's not a farce. Once you have successfully swirled your California wine you will see it happen with your own eyes ...

[SoCalCTS]

GM should move auto production closer to home in Michigan. Why be in a state that didnt support the bailout? Screw them.

[balthazar]

>>"Vice President is from Delaware"<<

But all we heard during the campaign was that he's a "Scranton boy"...

[Robert Hall]

>>"Vice President is from Delaware"<<

But all we heard during the campaign was that he's a "Scranton boy"...

Scranton, Delaware..same diff...same part of the country.

[Oracle of Delphi]

>>"Vice President is from Delaware"<<

But all we heard during the campaign was that he's a "Scranton boy"...

Of course you did, the Dems wanted those PA electoral votes, but his house is less than a mile from mine, in Delaware ...

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

And this talk about punishing states that went red...absolutely assinine. Anyone who buys into it is a partisan hack and/or conspiracy theorist.

So quick to pass judgement... Oh wait, you're from Cali. I forgot, that's what you do.

Anyway... I'm merely conveying what the article said. I couldn't care less about who's trying to screw who in Washington since it doesn't affect my life in any perceivable way.

Closing either plant would be short-sighted and stupid.

I agree... And the TN plant is one of the BEST plants they have. Then again, so was Oshawa.

Perpetuating this farce serves no purpose other than to stir up &#036;h&#33; on the boards.

This has been discussed before... The fact that I posted the article does nothing but confirm that politics ARE at play. (How much? Who knows)

GM should move auto production closer to home in Michigan. Why be in a state that didnt support the bailout? Screw them.

I agree and disagree... I get the sentamentalism, but cheaper labor = south. Not to mention, GM might win more support down here if it increases it's presence. (i.e. shows that southern states are important)

[Satty]

There you go again, treating someone like a second class citizen just because of where he lives.

[PurdueGuy]

Correct, but think about it for a second: if GM could sell off Saturn, and package it with a factory or two, whoever buys it would pay more since there are tangible assets in addition to the rights to the brand. Saturn IS GM, for now at least. But if GM moved the Traverse tooling to Lansing, there would at least be a factory to be sold off that whatever new entity could use for production, and GM would get more money for the sale. GM would also have one less factory to worry about.

Yup - if I were GM, I would certainly be having a few optional "packages" available, that might include offering the sale of a factory or two like you state. Buyers may or may not be interested. I'm only saying that since Spring Hill no longer has real ties to Saturn, the consideration of Spring Hill for sale along with Saturn is no different than the consideration of any other GM factory that GM could clear out & make ready for sale.

[Croc]

Yup - if I were GM, I would certainly be having a few optional "packages" available, that might include offering the sale of a factory or two like you state. Buyers may or may not be interested. I'm only saying that since Spring Hill no longer has real ties to Saturn, the consideration of Spring Hill for sale along with Saturn is no different than the consideration of any other GM factory that GM could clear out & make ready for sale.

OK, I get what you're saying. Spring Hill would be logical, though, since Traverse could be moved to Lansing fairly easily.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Croc

[Intrepidation]

Next person to use "second class citizen" is going to get gerbiled.

[Intrepidation]

Why be in a state that didnt support the bailout? Screw them.

Agree 100%

[Croc]

So quick to pass judgement... Oh wait, you're from Cali. I forgot, that's what you do.

<snip>

This has been discussed before... The fact that I posted the article does nothing but confirm that politics ARE at play. (How much? Who knows)

Yes, and EVERYTHING posted by the media is unbiased, agenda-free, and 100% factual. Right

I love how much you like to play the victim when it comes to regional stereotypes, though I have never once played that card against you. Yet once again, you do that to me. Grow up--you can't have it both ways. Maybe if you travelled to different parts of the country you would see first-hand how ridiculous many of your regional stereotypes are.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Croc

[Oracle of Delphi]

Agree 100%

So do I, plus it's not just GM that would shut down, it's the suppliers and all the other businesses that live off the plant and its workers, the mom and pop businesses etc. The shut down of GM plants in states that did not support the bailout would have a crippling effect on those states economy and that's exactly why I would do it ...

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Meh, do you really expect a Senator not to try and protect something in their district? I mean really, that's what politicians of all walks of life do. You don't get re-elected if you just say, "oh yeah we don't need those 1000 jobs."

If GM was threatening to close down NUMMI I'm sure ole Boxer or Feinstein or whoevers district it is in would raise some ruckus over it.

As for the whole not favoring the bailout thing, don't let political bickering distort your objective view of what is best for GM. Labor is cheapest in the South, it does not really make sense to move manufacturing to an area with higher labor costs and no gain in logistics or quality.

Given the terrible state of the economy in Michigan, i would think labor would be cheap up there too.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[longtooth]

Scranton, Delaware..same diff...same part of the country.

Very much so. Turnpikes and Interstates with concrete canyons (struggling to improve & survive) and former coal-towns at their terminus. The lush greenery in between. Home in other words.

I used to enjoy being positioned in it's middle as I love going fishing in the mountains of North Central Pennsylvania and at the Jersey shore. The frantic pace of it during the Summer months.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Very much so. Turnpikes and Interstates with concrete canyons (struggling to improve & survive) and former coal-towns at their terminus. The lush greenery in between. Home in other words.

I used to enjoy being positioned in it's middle as I love going fishing in the mountains of North Central Pennsylvania and at the Jersey shore. The frantic pace of it during the Summer months.

I prefer the Delaware, Maryland, Virginia (Delmarva) beaches compared to the Jersey shore ...

[longtooth]

I prefer the Delaware, Maryland, Virginia (Delmarva) beaches compared to the Jersey shore ...

And I don't.

I like the Chesapeake Bay too.

[Oracle of Delphi]

And I don't.

I like the Chesapeake Bay too.

That whole beach tag thing is a turn off for me, that by itself turned me off to Jersey ...

Edit: It's against my nature to pay to get on a beach ...

Edited April 12, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[longtooth]

That whole beach tag thing is a turn off for me, that by itself turned me off to Jersey ...

Edit: It's against my nature to pay to get on a beach ...

So cost is the issue.

I've seldom allowed that to stand between myself and where I'd like to be. (when I was able to afford it that is)

I would argue that having fees come with access, like driving on the beach at Island Beach State Park is a good idea. Even at the height of Summer it is never elbow-to-elbow as in VA, DE, NC and SC.

[Oracle of Delphi]

So cost is the issue.

I've seldom allowed that to stand between myself and where I'd like to be. (when I was able to afford it that is)

I would argue that having fees come with access, like driving on the beach at Island Beach State Park is a good idea. Even at the height of Summer it is never elbow-to-elbow as in VA, DE, NC and SC.

Not a cost factor. It's the principle of the thing, my feeling is I should not have to pay at all to access a beach. When I'm at my condo in Ocean City, MD which is on the top floor of an 8 story building. I get on the elevator and when the doors open on the ground floor, there is the beach in all it's wondrous glory. There are no Nazi beach guards asking to see my beach tag (use German accent here - Papers Please). Also don't like that whole Jersey Shore name. In Delaware, Maryland, Virgina and all the way down to Florida they are called beaches, not shores.

[longtooth]

Not a cost factor. It's the principle of the thing, my feeling is I should not have to pay at all to access a beach. When I'm at my condo in Ocean City, MD which is on the top floor of an 8 story building. I get on the elevator and when the doors open on the ground floor, there is the beach in all it's wondrous glory. There are no Nazi beach guards asking to see my beach tag (use German accent here - Papers Please). Also don't like that whole Jersey Shore name. In Delaware, Maryland, Virgina and all the way down to Florida they are called beaches, not shores.

You have a lack of exclusivity trying to shoe-horn yourself in there. Jersey's more open with myriad access points.

Nazi's are a European phenomena and I would think given your previous postings you'd be fond of contacting their ilk.

Right now it is about one and a half hours before high tide. Gloriously sunny with a NW wind spiking to 25 knots or so. Looking down-beach twenty minutes ago there was a sole fisherman (walk on) about 300 yards away. I'll put the binoculars on him at high tide to see if anything's running. Birds were working the surf-line at sunrise (I'm finding that is the norm) then they mooch tidbits from beach-walkers for the rest of the day.

The sand warms nicely under bare feet on the beach. (when there's lightwind)

I wouldn't want Senator Corker here in Jersey. (just to keep my comments somewhat thread-relevant)

[Drew Dowdell]

Close Bowling Green and move the Corvette to Wilmington along with Kappas ...

Delaware is a Blue state and the Vice President is from Delaware, my money is on Wilmington now ...

You've been talking about that possibility for almost a year now (and I agree that it makes sense). It has nothing to do with Biden.

[Blake Noble]

I say we close BG next.... Move the C7 to Wilmington.

Close Bowling Green and move the Corvette to Wilmington along with Kappas ...

Hmmm ... but what about the wildcard in that statement? The Corvette Museum. What becomes of it? Without the Corvette plant just down the road, it becomes nothing more than a roadside oddity and would surely be shut down.

And if you've been to the Bowling Green area, you'd know that if the Corvette plant just up and moved, it would make Bowling Green just another college town. The mall would go and plenty stores and restaurants would shut down because of a decreased number of commuters and travelers, eventually people would move away due to the lack of industry and shambling county economy. I currently live in a college town myself and I can tell you first hand there is nothing to do here ... except drugs. I think Bowling Green is a nice Western Kentucky city and it doesn't deserve that fate.

Sure there's Toyota's plant in Georgetown and Ford's plant in Louisville, but they both have a role in supporting different parts of Kentucky's economy; with Ford's Louisville plant holding up the north, Toyota's Georgetown plant holding up the central part of the state (my area), and GM's 'Vette plant propping up the west. (Other than the coal and logging industry, nothing really gives the southern part of the state any support and, well, I won't go there.) Without the Corvette plant, western Kentucky wouldn't be in that great of shape, I know. The area was already dealt a tough blow when Fruit of the Loom and a few others shuttered plants in the Bowling Green area a few years back. You might not think so, but the BG plant really does hold a lot of significance to Kentucky.

Perhaps Kappa should come to Bowling Green instead. And if I'm not mistaken I have heard of such an idea being thrown about months ago. It makes just about as much sense as the reverse situation you just mentioned and it does prevent an already poor state from becoming that much poorer.

I'm also aware that this state's senator didn't support the Bailout loans, but you're going to have to overlook him. He's a pretty crooked politician that has pretty much bought out every election over the past decade plus. McConnell is a political machine in my opinion. I wasn't in support of him this past November and I know my vote most certainly reflected that.

Set aside the Deliverance, hillbilly, and inbred jokes for a second and rethink (that was the slogan for GME's old US branch of operations after all) that statement and what it would imply.

I know that, for whatever remainder of time I'm going to spend in this state before I move elsewhere, I don't want to see Kentucky's economy become further degraded.

Edited April 12, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

There you go again, treating someone like a second class citizen just because of where he lives.

I'm merely defending free speech. He asked for it with his smart-assed remarks (as always)

As opposed to chastising someone for a simple purchase decision. (Example: you constantly belittling gm4life for his choice of driving an "Equinox with a Pontiac grille")

P.S. Glad to see I struck a nerve with you (since you've brought this up in 2 threads now) that's exactly what my goal was.

Edited April 12, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yes, and EVERYTHING posted by the media is unbiased, agenda-free, and 100% factual. Right

I love how much you like to play the victim when it comes to regional stereotypes, though I have never once played that card against you. Yet once again, you do that to me. Grow up--you can't have it both ways. Maybe if you travelled to different parts of the country you would see first-hand how ridiculous many of your regional stereotypes are.

a.k.a. I'm just a simpleton who doesn't know what it is to experience different cultures.

LMFAO...

Yeah, you don't throw stereotypes around at all. (As if I haven't traveled)

It's this kind of elitest attitude that makes you seem so childish. It's like slapping around a school girl and watching her throw a tantrum. You hypocritical remarks show exactly why this country is in the state it's in. You're consumed by your own world and if people don't agree with it (even on a bb) you feel COMPELLED to keep try and keep them in check or run your mouth. It's the same condescending attitude that we had to deal with back when we were all admins and it's the same thing that inspires your responses against 'lesser' members here in other threads.

I'll admit, my post was a cheap shot... But it's just SO.. DAMN... FUN! (I can't resist harassing sheltered people that have probably never had a hard days worth of work in their life)

[Satty]

P.S. Glad to see I struck a nerve with you (since you've brought this up in 2 threads now) that's exactly what my goal was.

I've never attacked a single member over their specific purchase, unlike you, and several other, have with me.

Oh, and you probably ought to set some loftier goals for yourself.

[SAmadei]

That whole beach tag thing is a turn off for me, that by itself turned me off to Jersey ...

Edit: It's against my nature to pay to get on a beach ...

Not all the beaches in Jersey require beach tags. And some that do are so lightly enforced, if a mute point. $50 for two season-long beach passes is a lot cheaper than the permit for the boat launch or permit for driving on the beach, at least.

Every beach I've been to on Delmarva has been loaded with bugs. I'll gladly pay to avoid being lunch for a flock of greenheads.

[PurdueGuy]

Not all the beaches in Jersey require beach tags. And some that do are so lightly enforced, if a mute point. $50 for two season-long beach passes is a lot cheaper than the permit for the boat launch or permit for driving on the beach, at least.

Every beach I've been to on Delmarva has been loaded with bugs. I'll gladly pay to avoid being lunch for a flock of greenheads.

Man, you guys back east have to pay for a ton of stuff that's all free out here. Granted, it's not an ocean boat launch, but I've never seen a boat launch in a reservoir around here that wasn't just open & free. Of course we also have 12 million acres of public land.

[Robert Hall]

I've never been to many East Coast beaches besides S. Florida & the Keys....and a few trips in the late '70s-early '80s as a kid w/ my folks to Myrtle Beach, SC (was a popular vacation spot for Ohioans, we vacationed there before buying the house in the Fla Keys) and a few trips out to Cape Cod in the '90s. I'd like to see some Middle Atlantic beaches some day.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Hmmm ... but what about the wildcard in that statement? The Corvette Museum. What becomes of it? Without the Corvette plant just down the road, it becomes nothing more than a roadside oddity and would surely be shut down.

How appropriate is that, that it becomes a roadside oddity in Kentucky? The Corvette museum is not a GM facility, so what do I care where it is? In fact the owners took a chance thinking that the Bowling Green plant would be the exclusive production facility for the Corvette in the first place. Before June of 1981 Corvettes were produced at the GM St. Louis, MO assembly plant.

As for Kappa coming to Bowling Green that plan was scrapped back in October of 2008 by GM ...

Bowling Green has no Port facility, Wilmington does so Corvettes can be made in Wilmington and shipped around the world. If I were GM, that fact alone would make me close down Bowling Green and move production to Wilmington, but like I said, Biden is Vice President now and lives in Wilmington, so odds are Wilmington gets the Corvette ... Since the Government is running GM and all ...

Edited April 12, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Croc]

So cost is the issue.

I've seldom allowed that to stand between myself and where I'd like to be. (when I was able to afford it that is)

I would argue that having fees come with access, like driving on the beach at Island Beach State Park is a good idea. Even at the height of Summer it is never elbow-to-elbow as in VA, DE, NC and SC.

I think there's something quite sick in charging people to access a natural resource like a coastline. I didn't know they did that out east...out west, our beaches are actually worth paying for, yet they are free.

[Croc]

a.k.a. I'm just a simpleton who doesn't know what it is to experience different cultures.

LMFAO...

Yeah, you don't throw stereotypes around at all. (As if I haven't traveled)

It's this kind of elitest attitude that makes you seem so childish. It's like slapping around a school girl and watching her throw a tantrum. You hypocritical remarks show exactly why this country is in the state it's in. You're consumed by your own world and if people don't agree with it (even on a bb) you feel COMPELLED to keep try and keep them in check or run your mouth. It's the same condescending attitude that we had to deal with back when we were all admins and it's the same thing that inspires your responses against 'lesser' members here in other threads.

I'll admit, my post was a cheap shot... But it's just SO.. DAMN... FUN! (I can't resist harassing sheltered people that have probably never had a hard days worth of work in their life)

Go back and re-read my post because I never said you haven't travelled anywhere, and I never said you were a simpleton. All I said was that you need to travel to the places you CLEARLY HAVE NOT BEEN TO (otherwise you would not post such outlandish things about them) because maybe your perceptions would change.

There is nothing offensive about any of that, and if you CHOOSE to take offense, then I will be forced to write you off as unreasonable, someone with a chip on his shoulder and a massive inferiority complex. It's really difficult to "pin me down" on something when you choose to infer something that I never implied. You do not get to disrespect other posters on here like you do with regional bashing and expect everyone to kowtow to you. You want respect, you have to give it, and lashing out at people while simultaneously playing the victim is not the way to do it.

I am truly sorry you are holding a grudge against me from when we were all moderators, but that was 3 years ago. It's time to move on. I hold no animosity toward you, though I would appreciate it if you would stop insulting my part of the country. I have NEVER insulted yours.

I also think it's very telling you assume I'm sheltered and have never worked a hard day's work in my life. Both of those are completely false, and I find it extremely laughable that you make these wild assumptions about people, places and things you clearly know nothing about, and then get all snitty when someone calls you on it. I learned a lesson many years ago: "Do not talk about things you know little-to-nothing about because you WILL look like an ass to the people who do know."

Edited April 12, 2009 by Croc

[Blake Noble]

How appropriate is that, that it becomes a roadside oddity in Kentucky?

I don't find it appropriate at all.

The Corvette museum is not a GM facility, so what do I care where it is?

I'm more than sure that GM does have some affiliation with the museum.

In fact the owners took a chance thinking that the Bowling Green plant would be the exclusive production facility for the Corvette in the first place. Before June of 1981 Corvettes were produced at the GM St. Louis, MO assembly plant.

Knew that. The St. Louis plant, from what I understand, was one of GM's worst factories before production shifted to BG.

As for Kappa coming to Bowling Green that plan was scrapped back in October of 2008 by GM ...

Well, I'm not up to date with a lot of my GM knowledge. I've been losing interest in the company and I've been busy with work and the Cutlass.

Bowling Green has no Port facility, Wilmington does so Corvettes can be made in Wilmington and shipped around the world. If I were GM, that fact alone would make me close down Bowling Green and move production to Wilmington, but like I said, Biden is Vice President now and lives in Wilmington, so odds are Wilmington gets the Corvette ... Since the Government is running GM and all ...

So I suppose that driving another few nails down in an already ailing state's coffin is worth it so as long as GM can ship a few thousand Corvettes overseas two hours quicker?

We all know how well the Corvette sells in Europe. Only rich cocks from Switzerland buy them. Elsewhere, no one really thinks twice about it. The numbers are small.

Now my discontent with GM is starting to fester into dislike.

Edited April 13, 2009 by YellowJacket894