Niteriyder

Cadillac Epsilon? Say i aint true...Motor Trend 'Scoop'

63 posts in this topic

Epic FAIL if this happens. Cadillac has lasted this long without a car slotted below the CTS.

GM, if you read this, I am a Cadillac buyer. I've owned a CTS and I plan to own another. I am the HEART of your ideal market for Cadillac. I'm 30 years old, professional, stylish. I would consider buying an Epsilon Buick Lacrosse but I would NEVER consider buying an Epsilon Cadillac Whatever-TS. If you're not going to do it right, GM, don't do it at ALL.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. NO! Bad GM. Bad, bad, bad GM.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stupid seems to be epidemic at GM this week.

Did you catch the rest of the details in that article?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cadillac EpsilonII - the new Catera. They managed to get it right with the CTS, so they decided they needed to aim lower again...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stupid seems to be epidemic at GM this week.

Did you catch the rest of the details in that article?

Yea pretty much...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the Epsy Dos Cad was going to be the DTS replacement, not an entry level model.

So if they do this instead, no Alpha RWD I guess.... Idiots. Let Buick handle the entry-lux FWD market, make Cadillac legit and all RWD.

Oh well, this will give them a competitor for the MKZ and LaCrosse.

Edited by Cubical
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure this isnt true. "GM 166" isn't even a valid GM program code.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty sure this isnt true. "GM 166" isn't even a valid GM program code.

Maybe not an old GM code, maybe the new, smaller GM has simpler codes.. :) Though that sounds more like an Alfa car than a code.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe not an old GM code, maybe the new, smaller GM has simpler codes.. :) Though that sounds more like an Alfa car than a code.

No it doesn't fit the new coding system either.

Now pipe down and change your name back to Moltar :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No it doesn't fit the new coding system either.

Now pipe down and change your name back to Moltar :D

Besides it's MT ffs. They're as unreliable as the frames on a Tundra.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Besides it's MT ffs. They're as unreliable as the frames on a Tundra.

Ba-zing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just call it Cimmarron...that will kill it out of the gate and ensure ZERO sales.

Hey, I have another BRILLIANT idea for the idiots at GM management if this article is correct: Build the stupidest idea for a car ever for Cadillac over at the NUMMI plant on the existing VIBE platform using the Corolla underpinings. That wreath and crest will look great on the 4 cylinder valve cover made in Japan. And in the effort to ensure the Cadillac faithful are further dismayed and persuaded to run, name it the Cadyota 8-6-4. :thumbsup:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just call it Cimmarron...that will kill it out of the gate and ensure ZERO sales.

Hey, I have another BRILLIANT idea for the idiots at GM management if this article is correct: Build the stupidest idea for a car ever for Cadillac over at the NUMMI plant on the existing VIBE platform using the Corolla underpinings. That wreath and crest will look great on the 4 cylinder valve cover made in Japan. And in the effort to ensure the Cadillac faithful are further dismayed and persuaded to run, name it the Cadyota 8-6-4. :thumbsup:

CD has already said this wasn't true.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Besides it's MT ffs. They're as unreliable as the frames on a Tundra.

:pokeowned:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with CD, this is nothing more than a lie from MT just to sell a magazine and attack a solid American brand with BS story.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes a lot of sense to me. I've been saying the same thing for a while now. Cadillac has ZERO chance of countering BMW, Mercedes and Audi model for model. Cadillac has been rejected in Europe after multiple efforts, and is increasingly irrelevant in the US for 2 reasons: 1) as good as the CTS is, the Euro brands have more prestige among Boomers and X'ers, especially the hi-tech new-money corporate crowd. 2) Cadillac has neglected its traditional "comfort/flash" customer base and has allowed Lexus to run away with this group.

Let's be realistic: GM doesn't have the resources to build Cadillac into a world luxury car leader. Go back to what it has done well for a long time: comfortable flashy cars at an upper middle class price. Still plenty of room for a RWD performer. As has been the trend, Cadillacs and Buicks will share platforms and parts with Chevy. But there's not room for both Cadillac and Buick. It's got to be one or the other, and I can see arguments for both. A sensible range might look like this:

LTS (EpII) $34K

SRX (Theta) $35K

CTS (build next generation off Camaro platform in same factory)

Escalade (Lambda)

Converj (Delta Volt)

XXX (halo CTS coupe)

Edited by buyacargetacheck
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This couldn't be a worse move if it were true. The CTS has singlehandedly brought respect and recognition back to the Cadillac brand, this would just be the Cimmarron all over again...a punching bag for people to use long after GM dies because of it's own stupidity.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Makes a lot of sense to me. I've been saying the same thing for a while now. Cadillac has ZERO chance of countering BMW, Mercedes and Audi model for model. Cadillac has been rejected in Europe after multiple efforts, and is increasingly irrelevant in the US for 2 reasons: 1) as good as the CTS is, the Euro brands have more prestige among Boomers and X'ers, especially the hi-tech new-money corporate crowd. 2) Cadillac has neglected its traditional "comfort/flash" customer base and has allowed Lexus to run away with this group.

Let's be realistic: GM doesn't have the resources to build Cadillac into a world luxury car leader. Go back to what it has done well for a long time: comfortable flashy cars at an upper middle class price. As has been the trend, Cadillacs and Buicks will share platforms and parts with Chevy. But there's not room for both Cadillac and Buick. It's got to be one or the other, and I can see arguments for both.

It makes no sense:

  • The CTS is well respected and even among the import lovers (like TTAC) it has taken first place against the likes of BMW and Mercedes.
  • Cadillac is a failure in Europe because it doesn't have a 3-Series sized competitor. The more car for you buck thing works well in American, but not in Europe where they like smaller.
  • The only small Cadillac they have is the FWD CadiSaab BLS...look how well that Epsilon is selling.
  • Cadillac's "traditional"buyers are dying off, and for those who want that type of luxury, there's Buick.

Anyway, I believe what CD says before MT, so I'm going to take his word.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If done right this might just work think Acura TSX, but uhhh I thought this was suppose to be Buick's "area". If there were no Buick someday I would support such a plan, but the car would have to be a Cadillac not a rebadged Aura.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The CTS is well respected and even among the import lovers (like TTAC) it has taken first place against the likes of BMW and Mercedes.

No doubt the CTS is a fine car. I would love to own one. But did it ever occur to you that GM cannot make money on a Cadillac-only platform and plant that merely produces 80K vehicles a year mainly for the North American market? That Cadillac's future rests with sharing more not less with Chevrolet? There's simply no other alternative. That means Sigma's future is dim unless there's sharing to be done with Camaro.

Cadillac is a failure in Europe because it doesn't have a 3-Series sized competitor. The more car for you buck thing works well in American, but not in Europe where they like smaller.

OK, and GM has how much to spend building such a vehicle for a hyper-competitive, nationalistic European market? How about egg?

The only small Cadillac they have is the FWD CadiSaab BLS...look how well that Epsilon is selling.

Yes, Cadillac's future is not in Europe where luxury buyers know a rebadge when they see one. Alternatively, in the US, there's a very large segment of luxury buyers just ready to be tapped who don't care about RWD, never have, never will.

and for those who want that type of luxury, there's Buick.

The problem with that is that neither Cadillac nor Buick will ever gain any traction in a market filled with great alternatives when they're both reduced to 3 or so offerings. Lexus, BMW, etc drives market share gains every year because there's always a new model in the showroom. With only 3 models each and at least a 4-5 year product development lifecycle there will be years when Cadillac and Buick have nothing new and are vulnerable to market share erosion. 2 options: you can fix that with rebadges (obvious downside there) or you can make one nice near-luxury/luxury brand out of the two.

Listen, this will eventually happen no matter what any of us wishes (if GM survives) because the economics of the industry in 2009 demand it. This is not 1965.

It makes no sense:

  • The CTS is well respected and even among the import lovers (like TTAC) it has taken first place against the likes of BMW and Mercedes.
  • Cadillac is a failure in Europe because it doesn't have a 3-Series sized competitor. The more car for you buck thing works well in American, but not in Europe where they like smaller.
  • The only small Cadillac they have is the FWD CadiSaab BLS...look how well that Epsilon is selling.
  • Cadillac's "traditional"buyers are dying off, and for those who want that type of luxury, there's Buick.

Anyway, I believe what CD says before MT, so I'm going to take his word.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No doubt the CTS is a fine car. I would love to own one. But did it ever occur to you that GM cannot make money on a Cadillac-only platform and plant that merely produces 80K vehicles a year mainly for the North American market? That Cadillac's future rests with sharing more not less with Chevrolet? There's simply no other alternative. That means Sigma's future is dim unless there's sharing to be done with Camaro.

Indeed, Sigma should be utilized more. So instead of spending money engineering Epsilon to be a Cadillac, why not spend money engineering Sigma to be more flexible so it can be downsized to the size of the 3-series, and upsided to be closer to 7-series size (the SLS shows it can be upsized)?

OK, and GM has how much to spend building such a vehicle for a hyper-competitive, nationalistic European market? How about egg?

Yes, Cadillac's future is not in Europe where luxury buyers know a rebadge when they see one. Alternatively, in the US, there's a very large segment of luxury buyers just ready to be tapped who don't care about RWD, never have, never will.

Cadillac has failed to make inroads because what they tried to sell Europe were such wonderful cars as the Seville, Escalade, BLS and a flawed first gen CTS. Those are not what Europeans want. To make inroads you have to get it right and keep at it. It takes time, which of course becomes the question of whether or not GM has any left. However, if you start with the right products your chances are much better at gaining sales.

The problem with that is that neither Cadillac nor Buick will ever gain any traction in a market filled with great alternatives when they're both reduced to 3 or so offerings. Lexus, BMW, etc drives market share gains every year because there's always a new model in the showroom. With only 3 models each and at least a 4-5 year product development lifecycle there will be years when Cadillac and Buick have nothing new and are vulnerable to market share erosion. 2 options: you can fix that with rebadges (obvious downside there) or you can make one nice near-luxury/luxury brand out of the two.

Well Buick is getting the new LaCrosse, Cadillac is getting the SRX, CTS Wagon, and CTS Coupe. Give Buick a premium Delta II compact and Cadillac a 3-series fighter followed by a 7-series fighter, and don't half ass them...and it could very well work.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the idea was that the CTS will get bigger and move upmarket to compete with the E-class et al and this new Epsilon car will take over where the old CTS was...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought the idea was that the CTS will get bigger and move upmarket to compete with the E-class et al and this new Epsilon car will take over where the old CTS was...

I thought that the car taking over where the CTS is currently positioned was supposed to be on Alpha?

If Cadillac gets an EPII from $30-40k, why did GM keep Buick? The new LaCrosse will be pointless.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor