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AutoBlog: REPORT: GM could be wholly owned by U.S. gov't after bankruptcy, $15.4 billion in loans forgiven

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- If Ford hadn't taken a loan out in 2006, they'd have joined GM and Chrysler in going to Washington with their hands out, assuming they made it to 2008.

- As Olds has pointed out, several European manufacturers are supported by their countries' governments.

- The Japanese government does everything it possbily can to ensure that a) Japanese cars sell well all over the globe and b) cars made in other countries DO NOT sell in Japan.

- The South Korean government isn't much better than Japan with regard to fair trade of autos.

So, what's so bad about supporting a government-funded GM by purchasing one of its cars?

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Ford did not do anything smart they were just lucky. Remember only two years ago media was complaining how irrelevant Ford's plan was. Now that the market has turned down, Ford is enjoying, and boy how good they are doing, really.

Ford's ambush marketing of boasting about not getting government loan is nothing but below the belt tactic. Rather than stealing sales away from the imports Ford's strategy is to steal sales away from the domestics, ingenuous. This is not 60's Mr. Mullaly. If he was creative enough, he would seek engineering cooperation with GM on environmental programs which Ford is not up front on other than Fusion Hybrid. He would cooperate more with the rest to fight the battle together with UAW. Seriously if Mullaly was smart he would have asked Wagoner, then CEO of DC Zeitsche to sit with the UAW together rather than individually in September 2007 when the contracts were ratified and get a better contract prospect. UAW plays the same ploy again and again of targetting one manufacturer and hammering a better deal with other two, how naiive are these CEO's if they cannot see this coming?

Ford has cut and pared itself small to be viable, if the market turns, and DO NOT be surprised it won't. Ford will be just sitting on minor profit rather than cashing on heavy price.

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- If Ford hadn't taken a loan out in 2006, they'd have joined GM and Chrysler in going to Washington with their hands out, assuming they made it to 2008.

- As Olds has pointed out, several European manufacturers are supported by their countries' governments.

- The Japanese government does everything it possbily can to ensure that a) Japanese cars sell well all over the globe and b) cars made in other countries DO NOT sell in Japan.

- The South Korean government isn't much better than Japan with regard to fair trade of autos.

So, what's so bad about supporting a government-funded GM by purchasing one of its cars?

Sanity. This post haz it.

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Ford did not do anything smart they were just lucky. Remember only two years ago media was complaining how irrelevant Ford's plan was. Now that the market has turned down, Ford is enjoying, and boy how good they are doing, really.

Ford's ambush marketing of boasting about not getting government loan is nothing but below the belt tactic. Rather than stealing sales away from the imports Ford's strategy is to steal sales away from the domestics, ingenuous. This is not 60's Mr. Mullaly. If he was creative enough, he would seek engineering cooperation with GM on environmental programs which Ford is not up front on other than Fusion Hybrid. He would cooperate more with the rest to fight the battle together with UAW. Seriously if Mullaly was smart he would have asked Wagoner, then CEO of DC Zeitsche to sit with the UAW together rather than individually in September 2007 when the contracts were ratified and get a better contract prospect. UAW plays the same ploy again and again of targetting one manufacturer and hammering a better deal with other two, how naiive are these CEO's if they cannot see this coming?

Ford has cut and pared itself small to be viable, if the market turns, and DO NOT be surprised it won't. Ford will be just sitting on minor profit rather than cashing on heavy price.

I disagree simply because I called the economy tanking right around the time Ford took out all those loans. If some C&G Haxor can see the road ahead, I'm sure there could have been someone a lot smarter at Ford who could see it to. Those loans gave Ford the capital to develop new vehicles. Fairly soon Ford will have one of the newest lineups across all of their brands.

Look at the new Festiva, Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Escape, and Flex and tell me that's not a killer lineup for ANY mainstream manufacturer.

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I disagree simply because I called the economy tanking right around the time Ford took out all those loans. If some C&G Haxor can see the road ahead, I'm sure there could have been someone a lot smarter at Ford who could see it to. Those loans gave Ford the capital to develop new vehicles. Fairly soon Ford will have one of the newest lineups across all of their brands.

Look at the new Festiva, Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Escape, and Flex and tell me that's not a killer lineup for ANY mainstream manufacturer.

I gotta agree about the lineup and possibly about Mullaly having balls to actually bring up front the products without taking advice from his middlemen, something that Wagoner did not do.

But the only reason why Ford got those loans and GM did not was because at that time Ford's reserves were nearly empty and GM then was sitting on close to 30 Billion cash. The market was still fluid and the loans were still available.

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But the only reason why Ford got those loans and GM did not was because at that time Ford's reserves were nearly empty and GM then was sitting on close to 30 Billion cash. The market was still fluid and the loans were still available.

And those of us who work in the real estate industry new something of a supernova was about to happen to the credit market. Experts in the field were advising people to max out their HELOCs even if they didn't need the money.

Ford just did it really big.

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And those of us who work in the real estate industry new something of a supernova was about to happen to the credit market. Experts in the field were advising people to max out their HELOCs even if they didn't need the money.

Ford just did it really big.

Well if you have nothing to lose, you better go big. My point is Ford gambled. GM too thought market would tank and it thought that the market would tank to 12M, not 9-10M. Its plan was viable for 12M, only when the market tanked beyond that GM's problems arose. So the point is two years ago Ford's hands were tied, they had no options but to take the loan, sell AM, J-LR, Mazda, so in someways Ford was lucky as circumstances not ingenuity brought it there.

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IF YOU WANT TO SAVE GM YOU CAN'T BUY FROM THE COMPETITION!!!!!!!@#$@!!~@!@!!@!!!~!!~!

^^ raised to the eleventybillion power :yes:

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In my opinion there is a difference between supporting a company with government loans, and supporting a company that is OWNED by the feds.

I would support the former, but not the latter.

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In my opinion there is a difference between supporting a company with government loans, and supporting a company that is OWNED by the feds.

I would support the former, but not the latter.

I hope you never use the Postal Service ever.

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I hope you never use the Postal Service ever.

Oh i have no problem with a company that was chartered by the federal government and then ran without taxpayer money.

I do have a problem with a private company that was nationalized.

That being said, i can count on two hands the number of times i have personally sent something USPS.

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I hope you never use the Postal Service ever.

And the P.O. sucks. I've never had so many package issues with any other shipper.

I have no problem with the loans. I didn't have any problem until recently, I'm starting to get a bad taste in my mouth over the way things are going. Everytime I didn't think the gov't could get involved any deaper.... they turn around and do so. I'm not boycotting GM (I know I kinda sounded like I would do that in my first post... I was quite frustereated after reading this article) but if the current administration doesn't start stepping back, GM as we know it will be gone forever. It could very well turn into a Toyota type company with cookie cutter bland cars and no specialty vehicles or programs. Look at anything else the gov't is involved with. Post office, Amtrak, medicare, social security. This isn't just gov't involvment, this is gov't takeover.

I can't tell you how tempted I am to buy a new Camaro SS, I have a fear it will get axed before it's scheduled finish date and will be gone forever..... either that or come back as a "Camaro II"

Just because some of you guys voted for Obbie doesn't mean you have to support his every move!

Edited by BuddyP

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Quite the opposite. I've never owned anything BUT GM. I'll remain a fan of GM's products, but I can't support a publicly traded company taking money from the us taxpayers to fund their business. If they had filed chapter 11 last year, when they should have, I could still be behind them. Nearly 16B later and they end up a ward of the state and stiff the American public? I just can't support that. I love what America is SUPPOSED to be too much and this whole shenanigan is a disgrace to both GM and the United States.

At least it's not as bad as the banks though.

Amen to that.

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Look at the new Festiva, Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Escape, and Flex and tell me that's not a killer lineup for ANY mainstream manufacturer.

SO glad to see Ford doing well. Our family drove Ford cars before we switched to GM when I was in high school. Ford products always served us very well. Three Ford wagons, only problem ever was an AC compressor that failed under warranty. Ford dealer was great at fixing the car for us while we were out of town on vaccation.

And the new Mustang AND we're getting the Euro Focus.

From a guy who bought a new Scion xB in 2005..and swore he'd never buy domestic again... to a guy who wants to buy domestic because of product now...I am that guy.

Let's all get excited about what GM is doing right. I ran in traffic for about 40 miles alongside of a new Camaro SS (red with black stripes). If THAT doesn't get your blood going as a product, you need to see your local Kia dealer.

Just my rambling...

Chris

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Look at anything else the gov't is involved with. Post office, Amtrak, medicare, social security. This isn't just gov't involvment, this is gov't takeover.

I can't tell you how tempted I am to buy a new Camaro SS, I have a fear it will get axed before it's scheduled finish date and will be gone forever..... either that or come back as a "Camaro II"

Just because some of you guys voted for Obbie doesn't mean you have to support his every move!

Social Security works for millions of Americans. It kinda sucks in a way but without it millions of people would be starving or doing major leage without.

Amtrack was one of the smartest things Nixon did. We need it expanded so we can have a real rail service like every other developed nation.

Buy a new Camaro. Maybe someday there will be a Camaro II. The Mustang II was the right car for 74, even though we hate it today.

(hey, all those street rodders need to get those Mustang II front end setups from somewhere, right?)

Chris

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Social Security works for millions of Americans. It kinda sucks in a way but without it millions of people would be starving or doing major leage without.

I think he was more or less referring to the part that SS cannot sustain itself; perhaps alluding to the idea that the government cannot sustain GM even on the taxpayers dime.

Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!

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And the P.O. sucks. I've never had so many package issues with any other shipper.

I have no problem with the loans. I didn't have any problem until recently, I'm starting to get a bad taste in my mouth over the way things are going. Everytime I didn't think the gov't could get involved any deaper.... they turn around and do so. I'm not boycotting GM (I know I kinda sounded like I would do that in my first post... I was quite frustereated after reading this article) but if the current administration doesn't start stepping back, GM as we know it will be gone forever. It could very well turn into a Toyota type company with cookie cutter bland cars and no specialty vehicles or programs. Look at anything else the gov't is involved with. Post office, Amtrak, medicare, social security. This isn't just gov't involvment, this is gov't takeover.

I can't tell you how tempted I am to buy a new Camaro SS, I have a fear it will get axed before it's scheduled finish date and will be gone forever..... either that or come back as a "Camaro II"

Just because some of you guys voted for Obbie doesn't mean you have to support his every move!

I don't support his every move.

The Post Office takes a letter from my hand, and for 43 cents delivers it to my parents in Miami 3 days later.

Amtrak is (was) underfunded and ignored. A large group on this board wanted to see it shut down completely. I don't doubt that Amtrak can succeed once proper attention has been paid. On a similar note, look at Conrail, it was wildly successful and was eventually reprivatized.

Go buy that Camaro SS, it's the only way to save GM.

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I don't support his every move.

The Post Office takes a letter from my hand, and for 43 cents delivers it to my parents in Miami 3 days later.

Amtrak is (was) underfunded and ignored. A large group on this board wanted to see it shut down completely. I don't doubt that Amtrak can succeed once proper attention has been paid. On a similar note, look at Conrail, it was wildly successful and was eventually reprivatized.

Go buy that Camaro SS, it's the only way to save GM.

Now now, I wasn't accusing you of that. The P.O. does good as long as it's a normal sized envalope. Any type of package not so good, if your gonna send pacel post, forget it. As for Amtrak, yes they've been neglected for years. Why have it if your not going to do any upkeep or updating.

Only thing is if I buy a new SS, I'll have to give up my '68 camaro project! That's a toughy!!

On a side note, the local dealer (which will not be shut down) has a silver SS RS in the showroom (already sold). Got to see it this past weekend. Also the guy backed out of their allocated V6 camaro. That's good news because now when it comes in I'll get to drive it!

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That is quite possibly the MOST ILLOGICAL statement I have EVER seen on this site.... and we've had some big ones out there.

Imagine if everyone in the U.S. thought like you.... how would GM EVER PAY BACK THE LOANS IF PEOPLE WON'T BUY THEIR CARS!?!

The best way to get GM to pay back the loan is to BUY A GM VEHICLE!!!!

Christ! Was 1992 <the year I started highschool> the only year they taught critical thinking in select public schools?!

That's just it. GM is NEVER going to pay back the loans EVER EVER EVER. That's the deal they're getting form the Czar, er I mean President. I read the article, which I've seen all over the net, and I said REALLY!? The article basically says, they're going to take "Good GM"(Which the PTOA says is Caddy and Chevy) &#036;h&#33;can everything else and just write off all of the loans as a loss. Then the government will OWN gm. It'll be Government Motors instead of General Motors. Based on the way the government has run everything it get's its hands on, it'll be run inefficiently and unprofitably. If we look at the history of EVERY government owned auto company, the end result has been failure. GM IS history, and I just want to get it over with.

I look at it like this. I doubt that GM is ever going to become a private company again. I'd rather see them dissolve now and save some dignity. I don't want them to be like the aging Rock Star that should have retired, but instead goes out on stage and embarrasses himself every night.

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