My luck ...

[Blake Noble]

I'm finally starting to believe I'm meant to have bad luck with cars. The Buick starting making a nasty, unprovoked knocking today that has me a bit confused because I can't quite pinpoint where the sound is coming from. One on hand, it sounds like the flywheel or torque converter could going bad when you start it up, but say when you raise the hood to give it a good listen, it sounds like it could be a loose timing chain.

God help me if it turns out to be a rod. I'll get rid of it.

Edited November 1, 2009 by whiteknight

[FAPTurbo]

I wonder if this is fate, and it's 'kindly' nudging you to not buy any more old cars.

[Intrepidation]

I would say no to that Firebird based on your 2 in a row duds dude. Maybe get a nice Cobalt LS .

Or if you wanted something that was actually fun, an SS or an SRT4.

[Blake Noble]

This thread makes me want to cry.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Jeez that really sucks... I hope you get it sorted out and that it's not a rod.

[Intrepidation]

[Intrepidation]

In all seriousness though, that sucks man, good luck with it. hopefully you'll be able to get it sorted out. However a knock of any sort is never a good sign.

[daves87rs]

Here's hoping that it's just something little....

[ocnblu]

Being a baller is hard when you ain't got no money. Believe me, I know. Good luck in getting it straightened out.

[Croc]

This thread makes me want to cry.

Don't be a little bitch. Focus on the task at hand, and remember that at this point in life: maintenance-free longevity should take precedence over flash.

[ocnblu]

Drill Sergeant Croc, yes SIR! *salutes*

[A Horse With No Name]

He's got the Cutlass bought and paid for.

Perhaps maybe Whitenight gets out of school and buys a nice low mile Grand National as another toy and a gently used current gen V6 Camaro as a daily?

Chris

[z28luvr01]

Worst case scenario - Yank the Rocket out of the Regal and rebuild it at your leisure, then get a good, used, warrantied SBC (only because they're so plentiful) from a junkyard for a few hundred and run with that.

[Intrepidation]

The smart thing to do would be to ditch the regal, or keep it if you really want it but you haven't even finished teh Cutlass yet, and get a cheap, economical, reliable, small car as a daily driver.

[Robert Hall]

Moral of the story, with old used cars, don't expect reliablity and 100% driveability. Get a new Cobalt, Corolla, etc if you want that in your life...old used cars are money pits and can make decent occasional use cars, but are not suitable as daily drivers.

[Intrepidation]

You don't even need a car to be new to be reliable. You just have to research what used cars and powertrains are known to be reliable. Often times that means more Japanese than American but I know there's a selection of reliable American cars as well.

[Robert Hall]

You don't even need a car to be new to be reliable. You just have to research what used cars and powertrains are known to be reliable. Often times that means more Japanese than American but I know there's a selection of reliable American cars as well.

True, but the newer they are, and the lower the mileage, the more likely they are to be reliable than something 25 years old.

In my experience, old high mileage cars are more often a source of pain and misery than joy. Old and cheap usually means worn out.

[Z-06]

Don't be a little bitch. Focus on the task at hand, and remember that at this point in life: maintenance-free longevity should take precedence over flash.

Agreed there. Move on. There are many a things in life which will not go your way. Life does not stop just because you did not get what you wanted because guess what you will never always get what you wanted. Such situations should make you tougher not make you cry.

[Intrepidation]

True, but the newer they are, and the lower the mileage, the more likely they are to be reliable than something 25 years old.

In my experience, old high mileage cars are more often a source of pain and misery than joy. Old and cheap usually means worn out.

Well one way to look at it would be your GC, which has been pretty reliable besides the seat thing. The Prizm is coming up to 197,000 miles on it and runs like a top. Yes we had to replace the transmission and master/slave cylinders four years ago, but really its been without any major issue since then...even after being "totaled". I drive it every day and would trust it to take me anywhere.

As an aside, that check engine and non working speedo issue I had a couple months ago was my fault...I didn't ground the wires going to the battery securely enough when I replaced the terminal connectors.

[Robert Hall]

Well one way to look at it would be your GC, which has been pretty reliable besides the seat thing. The Prizm is coming up to 197,000 miles on it and runs like a top. Yes we had to replace the transmission and master/slave cylinders four years ago, but really its been without any major issue since then...even after being "totaled". I drive it every day and would trust it to take me anywhere.

As an aside, that check engine and non working speedo issue I had a couple months ago was my fault...I didn't ground the wires going to the battery securely enough when I replaced the terminal connectors.

My Jeep I bought brand new, have kept to the factory maintenance schedule, so I know it's history and trust it to drive cross country without failing. Similarly w/ my '87 Mustang, got it new, know it's history, know what's been replaced.

Not a used car with a questionable history...like...sister's '84 and '91 Mercedes, both were bought used w/ over 100k. Both are total money pits that I barely trust to drive around town. They break, and they break often, and it's always $1000-1500 in repairs. Old and worn out. I wish she'd unload them and get a new car. (since she's a traveling consultant home 2-3 days a week, she doesn't drive much..hence the old cars..she always drove new cars when she worked normal local corporate jobs). Enough w/ the family dysfunction frustration, though.

I hate cars that I can't trust, and want nothing to do with them. And most old used cars fall in that category. For a daily driver, I'll never trust something that I didn't buy new or as a low mileage CPO.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Camino LS6]

You just have to know how to pick them...

[Intrepidation]

Well they are Mercedes after all. The Germans can engineer quite a car but nothing about German Engineering implies reliability.

I think I did well with my car. Yes I changed the engine out but that was mostly because the cost of doing the timing chains was about the same as putting a more powerful engine in it...and more power wins every day.

The Mercury has also been very good to us. We put 15,000 miles on it in a year and the only times it left us sort of stranded were 2 flat tires on two separate occasions. It only lost 2nd gear because my mom lost her temper and floored it in reverse for like 5 minutes on ice

[ocnblu]

I agree with Cuticle on this one. Never buy an old car to use as a daily driver if you need to get somewhere every day without fail. Only if you have the time and knowhow should a person even consider one as a toy, because spending money to have somebody else fix it is moneypit central.

[Intrepidation]

It all depends on what you buy and how old it is. granted there is a certain a mount of luck involved, but going for something as old as what he bought and expecting it to be a daily driver without flaws is just asking for trouble.

I'd love to buy a new car, but considering the last thing I had to do for teh Prizm was put tires on it, and the only thing left it needs are new belts, I feel I'm good on monthly payments I know I couldn't make.

[A Horse With No Name]

To be really rational about it...

Knight could almost fix the 'bird as a reliable daily driver.

Get an estimate on frame work, etc. if the rest of the car is solid.

If you really want the Buick...just hold on to it. Old cars are a HOBBY. Expect to spend about eleventy billion dollars MORE on it than its worth, even if you do your own work.

But I do agree with blue and Cuticle-when you get out of school, buy a Cobalt or Malibu new or nearly new so you have a car as reliable as gravity to get around in.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Having a 50 mile RT commute now, and once years ago having a 140 mile RT commute reinforces importance of reliability + keeping up w/ maintenance for me. Makes me very wary of anything I didn't buy new or nearly new. I wouldn't want to get stranded by the side of the road in the void in a snowstorm or on a 115 degree day...

[trinacriabob]

Hopefully, it's minor.

If it is the timing chain, remember that it's a non-interference engine, meaning the timing chain breaking WILL NOT affect the valvetrain. I lost a timing chain on the 3.8 V6 in the '84 Cutlass Brougham coupe. Generally, what happens is that these don't make any weird noises...and then they go out when you come to a stop. Also, after it goes, if the ignition feels like it's spinning extra fast and nothing is happening, it's the timing chain.

I don't know much about the bottom end of engines.

About old cars, I'm ok with them when I buy them new and know about every service receipt and have put every mile on it. It is starting to get weird crossing to Sierras at night to get back from a day or weekend trip to Reno or Lake Tahoe in the old car. That's why I've been hesitant to go look at early Intrigues or the last GP coupes, as much as I like them.

Edited November 3, 2009 by trinacriabob

[SAmadei]

How to enjoy a 25 year old daily driver...

Find a car that isn't completely clapped out... 100K or so. Women driven. Look for little details like damage that might indicate it was trashed then cleaned up... or a title that has changed hands 27 times in 25 years. Try to keep the rust down... note rusty fuel or brake lines.

Bring it home and change all the filters and fluids... note any problem signs. Check out brakes. Do a tune up... new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, etc. Drive it for about 2000 miles as a non-daily driver and pay particular attention to the engine, tranny and rear.

If nothing pops up, get new quality alternator, starter, battery, battery cables and tires... these are things that can leave you by the side of the road. Old GM cars are famous for having more problems than you can count, yet they get you from point A to point B. Catastrophic failure usually doesn't happen to a 100K+ car without warnings.

Throw a little tool kit in the trunk. Have AAA. Have a backup car. Then the primary never breaks.

An electric fuel pump or ignition module can also leave you by the side of the road, so put a junkyard ignition module in your tool kit and keep your tank above 1/4 full. Electric fuel pumps use the gas as coolant... and are a PITA to replace preemptively... luckily your Regal has a mechanical pump... which rarely just stop working.

[Blake Noble]

Well, sick of hearing everything from "it's a bad lifter" to "it's the timing chain" to "it's a rod" to "somethin' werked is'self loose," I checked it out today on a two hour break from work. Hoping it was the flywheel, I looked there first, started the car and could actually see it "skip" as it turned. I couldn't see all too well when I checked the flywheel with the car off, but I think the flywheel is just now starting to crack at the bolts.

Let's see if I'm right on that and I'm going to take it from there. Assuming I am right, it looks like I'm going to have to farm some work out to the cheapest mechanic because I can't obviously don't have the equipment needed to drop a trans down to change a flywheel.

The Firebird is gone so I can pay for it. It's just annoying because I wanted to save as much of that money as I possibly could of it and use it for another car. Hopefully I'll get a lot of work this week and hopefully another double shift to gain it back and then some.

Sorry for the rant guys. I have a lot on my plate to clear between work, working to accomplish a few goals that I've set for the coming months, and a few projects I have to do. My head is sort of unraveling a bit right now.

Don't be a little bitch. Focus on the task at hand, and remember that at this point in life: maintenance-free longevity should take precedence over flash.

Of course, I was being sarcastic in response to the pics of Cobalts and Accords being posted earlier.

Edited November 3, 2009 by whiteknight

[A Horse With No Name]

How to enjoy a 25 year old daily driver...

Find a car that isn't completely clapped out... 100K or so. Women driven. Look for little details like damage that might indicate it was trashed then cleaned up... or a title that has changed hands 27 times in 25 years. Try to keep the rust down... note rusty fuel or brake lines.

Bring it home and change all the filters and fluids... note any problem signs. Check out brakes. Do a tune up... new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, etc. Drive it for about 2000 miles as a non-daily driver and pay particular attention to the engine, tranny and rear.

If nothing pops up, get new quality alternator, starter, battery, battery cables and tires... these are things that can leave you by the side of the road. Old GM cars are famous for having more problems than you can count, yet they get you from point A to point B. Catastrophic failure usually doesn't happen to a 100K+ car without warnings.

Throw a little tool kit in the trunk. Have AAA. Have a backup car. Then the primary never breaks.

An electric fuel pump or ignition module can also leave you by the side of the road, so put a junkyard ignition module in your tool kit and keep your tank above 1/4 full. Electric fuel pumps use the gas as coolant... and are a PITA to replace preemptively... luckily your Regal has a mechanical pump... which rarely just stop working.

+1

Chris

[Camino LS6]

I'm with Samadei amd 66 on this.

Daily driving an old car is no big deal, the parameters are just different. You have to be proactive, and more importantly, patient. The payoff is in knowing the car better than you ever would a new one, and doing it without a monthly payment.

Is it for everyone?

Of course not.

But it is a viable (and enjoyable) way to go.

[Intrepidation]

How to enjoy a 25 year old daily driver...

Find a car that isn't completely clapped out... 100K or so. Women driven. Look for little details like damage that might indicate it was trashed then cleaned up... or a title that has changed hands 27 times in 25 years. Try to keep the rust down... note rusty fuel or brake lines.

Bring it home and change all the filters and fluids... note any problem signs. Check out brakes. Do a tune up... new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, etc. Drive it for about 2000 miles as a non-daily driver and pay particular attention to the engine, tranny and rear.

If nothing pops up, get new quality alternator, starter, battery, battery cables and tires... these are things that can leave you by the side of the road. Old GM cars are famous for having more problems than you can count, yet they get you from point A to point B. Catastrophic failure usually doesn't happen to a 100K+ car without warnings.

Throw a little tool kit in the trunk. Have AAA. Have a backup car. Then the primary never breaks.

An electric fuel pump or ignition module can also leave you by the side of the road, so put a junkyard ignition module in your tool kit and keep your tank above 1/4 full. Electric fuel pumps use the gas as coolant... and are a PITA to replace preemptively... luckily your Regal has a mechanical pump... which rarely just stop working.

Great advice.

The Firebird is gone so I can pay for it. It's just annoying because I wanted to save as much of that money as I possibly could of it and use it for another car.

This is part of your problem. Work onw hat you have first, get them in proper working order, and then worry about another car you don't need. Or save for the future.

I'm with Samadei amd 66 on this.

Daily driving an old car is no big deal, the parameters are just different. You have to be proactive, and more importantly, patient. The payoff is in knowing the car better than you ever would a new one, and doing it without a monthly payment.

Is it for everyone?

Of course not.

But it is a viable (and enjoyable) way to go.

I agree. I have no issues driving older cars. One just has to understand that with age repairs are inevitable, and just have money set aside rainy days like that. It's still way cheaper than buy new.

[SAmadei]

I couldn't see all too well when I checked the flywheel with the car off, but I think the flywheel is just now starting to crack at the bolts.

Use a pick or razor blade to 'feel' the cracks you might see... sometimes oil or dirt gathers around the bolts on spinning objects and can look VERY crack-like. IIRC, it would be kind of odd for a flywheel to crack at several bolts.

Let's see if I'm right on that and I'm going to take it from there. Assuming I am right, it looks like I'm going to have to farm some work out to the cheapest mechanic because I can't obviously don't have the equipment needed to drop a trans down to change a flywheel.

IIRC, you don't need to drop the tranny to change the flywheel. You take out the torque converter bolts and then the torque convert will push into the tranny enough to give you access to the flywheel to crank bolts. Of course, my Haynes recommends dropping the the tranny. I'm wondering if the bolts are too long to get out... but IIRC, flywheel to crank bolts are less than an inch. It been a long time since I was playing in this area with a traditional RWD setup.

[SAmadei]

I agree. I have no issues driving older cars. One just has to understand that with age repairs are inevitable, and just have money set aside rainy days like that. It's still way cheaper than buy new.

Its also good to keep a log of your repairs on an older car... this way you don't forget what you have changed. It can come in handy when you are diagnosing a problem.

There are two big mistaken perceptions when it comes to older cars... first is from the point of view of the person getting rid of it... they are getting rid of it in many cases because it has broke and it is the straw that breaks the camel's back. They have done the tuneup, replaced the suspension, replaced the battery, alternator, light bulbs, filled it with gas...and now... OH MY GOD! The mirror pulled off the windshield! F This, I'm getting a new car. Of course, the person buying the car has a car full of new parts that needs the mirror glued back on... they get a deal.

Then there is the mistaken perception that the unrealistic buyer gets... they think they are going to get in it and drive... well, no... in most cases there are a few things wrong... and so you need to consider the total cost of the car... the car... and the parts/repairs to make it ready to go. Its like making two or three car payments ahead of time... but then getting 45 months without payments... a worthwhile investment, IMHO.

Sure, older cars can be a boondoggle... you're going to get a lemon from time to time... but todays throw-away mentality sends most older cars to the crusher with plenty of life left in them. Cue the old commercial with the native American shedding a tear.

[CaddyXLR-V]

To be really rational about it...

Knight could almost fix the 'bird as a reliable daily driver.

Get an estimate on frame work, etc. if the rest of the car is solid.

If you really want the Buick...just hold on to it. Old cars are a HOBBY. Expect to spend about eleventy billion dollars MORE on it than its worth, even if you do your own work.

But I do agree with blue and Cuticle-when you get out of school, buy a Cobalt or Malibu new or nearly new so you have a car as reliable as gravity to get around in.

Chris

Depends on the car. My dad always had older Chevys, and he's probably never spent over $500 on a single repair, a lot of them were daily drivers for him. Once you start getting into the cars with electronics, that's when it starts to get expensive.

[GMTruckGuy74]

I agree with Cuticle on this one. Never buy an old car to use as a daily driver if you need to get somewhere every day without fail. Only if you have the time and knowhow should a person even consider one as a toy, because spending money to have somebody else fix it is moneypit central.

You're working for my BPG dealership, aren't you? They're not happy that I'm not coming in to buy something NEW in two weeks. You must be on their payroll

I'm with Samadei amd 66 on this.

Daily driving an old car is no big deal, the parameters are just different. You have to be proactive, and more importantly, patient. The payoff is in knowing the car better than you ever would a new one, and doing it without a monthly payment.

Is it for everyone?

Of course not.

But it is a viable (and enjoyable) way to go.

And then there's you. The Cadillac must have called you and told you I said some pretty mean things to it last week. It must have read my thread about wanting to sell it. You make some valid points for the Caddy though.

ocnblu & Camino are like the little cartoon "angel" and "devil" on my shoulders. ocnblu telling me I did wrong to buy an older car, and Camino telling me I'll get more enjoyment from owning this car over another cookie-cutter new car.

I bought the Caddy on a whim - wasn't out looking to seriously do that when I just jumped the gun and went ahead and bought the thing. I definitely need to get my a$$ enrolled in the local tech school or high school adult program's auto shop class. If I'm going to keep this Caddy as a daily driver, I better learn how to do some repair work on my own. Money will be tight and free labor is, well, free. Yes, I did buy this car thinking I'd be able to get in it and go for at least a little while. But I made my bed, so now I have to sleep in it. We'll see though how long I can last without a new car

[Camino LS6]

It will be worth the effort, and you will come away from the experience with new knowlege and skills.

Not to mention confidence.

[GMTruckGuy74]

It will be worth the effort, and you will come away from the experience with new knowlege and skills.

Not to mention confidence.

Something I seriously lack when it comes to working on cars. Getting new experience and skills will definitely pay off in the long run too.

[Camino LS6]

It expands your options when dealing with cars.

I have ping-ponged between new and used cars for years as required (or desired).

[Blake Noble]

Use a pick or razor blade to 'feel' the cracks you might see... sometimes oil or dirt gathers around the bolts on spinning objects and can look VERY crack-like. IIRC, it would be kind of odd for a flywheel to crack at several bolts.

It isn't out of the question, though. The flywheel doesn't have a dust cover and my driveway is gravel. Throw enough gravel at that flywheel and drive over enough debris and damage to the flywheel becomes more and more likely.

My friend who has a '66 Mustang seems to be backing me on this assumption as well. Before he replaced the six in his car with a 302, the flywheel on his car at started to crack badly at all four bolts and would make a sound similar to what the Buick is doing now.

Tomorrow is D-Day for the Buick. If it's the flywheel, then it's going to get fixed. If it's something that requires a lot of cash then it's probably going to be the new long-term project car and I'm probably just going to use the cash from the Firebird sale and what I've earned on my next paycheck for a down payment on a loan for a decent T/A (either a second-gen or a fourth-gen, with the nod going to the second-gen) and not a major project.

IIRC, you don't need to drop the tranny to change the flywheel. You take out the torque converter bolts and then the torque convert will push into the tranny enough to give you access to the flywheel to crank bolts. Of course, my Haynes recommends dropping the the tranny. I'm wondering if the bolts are too long to get out... but IIRC, flywheel to crank bolts are less than an inch. It been a long time since I was playing in this area with a traditional RWD setup.

I'm going to see that approach can be done but I'm betting on the trans having to be dropped in order to fix this.

Edited November 4, 2009 by whiteknight

[Camino LS6]

Trans would have to be pulled toward the back of the car (with the driveshaft removed).

Then the job can be done.

Not as easy as it would be with it out, but do-able.

I've done it.

[ocnblu]

With flywheel problems don't you also have a high potential for screeches and other noises from the starter motor upon turning the key because the gear on the motor doesn't line up with the teeth on the flywheel? Mr. Jacket, are you having anything like that? Edited November 4, 2009 by ocnblu

[Justin Bimmer]

YJ,

I know you like these vintage cars, but may I please suggest you look for something newer than a 4th gen T/A for your daily driver?

[Camino LS6]

4th gen T/A is plenty new enough - but a low-mile example would be a wise choice.

Without mods.

[SAmadei]

With flywheel problems don't you also have a high potential for screeches and other noises from the starter motor upon turning the key because the gear on the motor doesn't line up with the teeth on the flywheel? Mr. Jacket, are you having anything like that?

Thats only if the ring gear outer bit strips out, cracks, warps or falls off. When flywheels crack from fatigue, they can do it around the center without affecting the ring gear.

[Blake Noble]

With flywheel problems don't you also have a high potential for screeches and other noises from the starter motor upon turning the key because the gear on the motor doesn't line up with the teeth on the flywheel? Mr. Jacket, are you having anything like that?

I believe so.

YJ,

I know you like these vintage cars, but may I please suggest you look for something newer than a 4th gen T/A for your daily driver?

Don't suggest something rational to an irrationally wired guy. It ain't gonna work. :AH-HA_wink:

[ocnblu]

Thats only if the ring gear outer bit strips out, cracks, warps or falls off. When flywheels crack from fatigue, they can do it around the center without affecting the ring gear.

Yeah, I'm thinking I've seen fatigue-cracked flywheels become warped at the cracks and cause misalignment, but my memory may be faulty, too.

Good luck in fixing Buford, Mr. Jacket.

[Delta Force79]

Sorry to hear about your trouble with the Regal. As far as buying an old car to use as a daily driver, I bought my Olds in '01 and it was my daily driver for over a year before anything went wrong with it. Let me also add that I drove it hard. It was 22,23 years old at the time and I was a dumb kid thinking I have a V8 so I'm gonna drive it like I stole it. After my grandfather passed away in in 2002 I inherited his '96 Taurus and gave the Olds a break. Within 3 months the Taurus needed a new transmission with 45K on the clock. I gave the car to my father in exchange for his 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue and used that as my daily driver for over a year. Eventually The Chrysler became one headache after another and I put the Olds back on the road. Now the Olds is far from being a mechanically solid car, but It always got up and went and whenever a problem did arise it was usually a relatively cheap repair. I wish I could say the same about my Riviera which is 16 years newer....so don't give up faith in the oldies, you'll find a winner

[Blake Noble]

So I fired the car up today after not being started in a few days and the knocking has gotten worse. It's in time with the engine now ...

[Camino LS6]

Not a good sign.